Ep 101: Postpartum Terms to be Familiar with (Part 3/4)

In part 3 of this birth vocabulary series, we’re highlighting some postpartum terms to know.  This is a good list to look at during pregnancy, to familiarize yourself with some of the vernacular that you might not use every day.

We focus on 3 main topic areas: defining postpartum, breastfeeding terms, and postpartum mental health terms.  Of course this list is not exhaustive, but it’s a great start to look at during your pregnancy for a more informed postpartum.

Resources mentioned in the show:

• Episode 36: tips for the 4th trimester
• Episode 23: return to running - postpartum fitness
• Episodes 6-8: postpartum essentials    
• Episode 95: how birth process impacts infant feeding
• Episode 63: breastfeeding tips and resources 
• Episode 79: embracing the imperfections of motherhood with Dr. Meghan Toups
• Episode 44: you are not alone with Shannon Weist 
• PSI Postpartum Support International - online resource 
• Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale (EPDS) Calculator 

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:03  

Hello friends, you are listening to the aligned birth podcast. You have both hosts here today doula Rachel is joining me Dr. Shannon and we are chatting about postpartum terms in general was foreign terms from mom who was part of terms for baby trying to use some words for you that you may that probably aren't in your normal vernacular. They're not in your normal vocabulary, but they are when you are pregnant and in transitioning into that postpartum time period. So it's good to know some of these new vocab words and add them to your word bank. You know, oddly enough when we started the outline for the show, we had it all in one episode we did prenatal terms. We did birth terms and then we did postpartum and y'all would you know that this is now part three of a three part series because the words just kept coming like it was. I don't know the words just kept coming. So hindsight 2020 we split this up into three episodes and so we have the other ones that came out which have wonderful words and you need to hear as well. But this one is really focusing on those postpartum terms for mom, I think a big thing that I want to hit home with this is I think it's important to listen to this during pregnancy, especially for these postpartum terms for baby because if you're in that immediate postpartum is not it's a really hard time to learn new words than now I deal with a lot of moms who are like, Why didn't I didn't make a decision on certain things. And so it's like now I'm just kind of thrown into it. And it's like, can we learn some of these words, not in an overwhelming way, but just to be familiar with them and maybe have part of it? On that birth plan. And then that way, you're not kind of you don't feel blindsided in that postpartum time period. So that's part of why we wanted to do this as well today, too. So like I said, we're doing all kinds of postpartum terms for mom postpartum terms, for baby to add to your vocabulary. So Ray, welcome to the show, Rachel. Hello, and welcome to the Allied birth podcast. We are so glad you're here. I'm Dr. Shannon of prenatal chiropractic.

Unknown Speaker  2:17  

And I'm Rachel a birth doula and childbirth educator and we are the team behind the Alliance for podcast.

Unknown Speaker  2:23  

Between us we have experienced a cesarean birth a VBAC, hospital births and home birth. Our personal experiences led us to where we are today, we share a lot in common.

Unknown Speaker  2:34  

We are friends from high school who reconnected through our work. We both changed career paths after the birth of our own children. We line up with talking about health and birth, and we are both moms to two young boys.

Unknown Speaker  2:46  

This podcast was created to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind throughout all. Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

Unknown Speaker  3:01  

We believe that when you are aligned and body, mind and your intuition you can conquer anything. We hope you enjoyed the episode

Unknown Speaker  3:21  

perfect intro that was great. Thank you so much. So many words. One episode, we're like we're gonna cover birth terms. Boom. We'll get it done. Great. And

Unknown Speaker  3:33  

then I will say I watched as the time

Unknown Speaker  3:36  

completed away way, but I love it. It's been three solid episodes. So I'm very excited to get into the postpartum terms with you. Before we do that we wanted to share with you about our, the opportunity for our listeners to contribute via direct community support. You know, between the topic research one on one guest interviews, recording, editing, posting every week, you know, this podcast does take time, effort and resources to share with you every week as much as we love it. And we'd like to be transparent about what we're doing here. You know, we're so humbled and grateful for all of our listeners and the reviews and the feedback we've received, letting us know that this podcast has made a difference in your life and that it's been inspiring, you know, we want to keep the podcast focused on content that informs, inspires, entertains and is mindful of your time. One way to accomplish this is through direct listener support. Your support will help the show grow and reach more listeners just like yourself. And with intentionality and consistency which is big to us. We will slowly and surely create a ripple effect that will have a positive and long lasting impact for birthing people and new mom as a new family. So we've made this easy for you. We've set up a link where you can quickly and easily support the show. The whole thing takes less than 60 seconds. So it's you can find it in our show notes or you can go directly to aligned birth.buzzsprout.com And it's linked directly in the show notes. We're asking for $5 a month, but you can contribute as much or as little as you would like that's what makes this really great is you can choose how what level you want to contribute on. So if a lion birth is a part of your day or your week and you love what we're doing, please visit a lion birth that bus prep.com or use the link in the show notes and support us. We greatly appreciate it.

Unknown Speaker  5:26  

Yes, we love building this community building this community and are starting an email newsletter so you can opt in on that as well too and stay in the know on all kinds of upcoming things that we have so it might be a lot easier to follow along with the show and to get quicker information from us than necessarily like just waiting every Wednesday for our very consistent episodes, but we would love to have you as part of the mind birth community. All right, so friends today, it's like I said postpartum terms for mom, and so we're going to start off with I really liked this word and I had shared this on because we're we try to stay pretty active on social media too. So you should also follow us on social media. At alligned underscore birth on Instagram, but may tresses and I had shared it a little while ago when I came across the word sometimes I'll be like, I want to find a quote to share I want to find something that I don't necessarily have to think of. It's like I love it and it resonates with me and I found that word and I was like Ooh, I like this. And I think it's funny when you think of it as like it sounds like adolescence, right? And so it's like that, you know, coming into that teenager world coming into that aspect of things well matress since it's kind of the same thing, you're coming into this new identity that you have once you have given birth and that shift in that motherhood and it doesn't necessarily it can feel a lot like adolescence, right? It's, it's tumultuous, and it's up and down and it's hormonal and it's it's happy and sad. And it's you know, I mean you're learning look at it. Yeah, when you look at it like that it doesn't it's not like oh, I had a baby. All my maternal instincts kick in and I know how to do all these things now and I move into this new identity so perfectly and easily.

Unknown Speaker  7:21  

No, it's a process. It's a process. It's a process and then I love that word. And I love that definition. I think that's a great way to start this episode. And now another way or another phrase or word is is simply postpartum. And this gets used and applied in a lot of different ways. I've even had some people think that postpartum means postpartum depression, that it's like that's what that means that so yep. And so postpartum can be tacked on to a lot of different words. And all that means is that like after you've given birth, and the technical definition is the first 12 weeks after birth, also known as the fourth trimester. And I like to look at it as the fourth trimester, those 12 weeks after giving birth, because like, you, you your baby has been growing inside of you for nine to 10 months and and they're born, they still need so much care and attention and you need so much healing and rest that that 12 weeks is just like an extension of the pregnancy instead of like, okay, I've had the baby two weeks later or whatever I'm like, back to my normal stuff. So I like really embracing that full 12 weeks after the birth is like an extension of the pregnancy. But that's the technical definition of the postpartum phase. But then there's the immediate postpartum, which is like six hours after you give birth. And then there's like the initial postpartum which would be like your first six weeks and that's

Unknown Speaker  8:55  

that doctor's appointment visit that first check in you know, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  8:58  

a lot of healing and recovering and navigating new things, and that those first six weeks, that's probably the most intense part of the postpartum and then up to you know, then they're six months after birth postpartum and then there's really like the the idea that it's you're in you're in the postpartum phase forever

Unknown Speaker  9:19  

I did that

Unknown Speaker  9:20  

but then like it was just looks different six hours after giving birth to six monthly to 12 months to two years, you know, hmm, you know it there's so much that happened, hormonal

Unknown Speaker  9:31  

things that are so different in each of those. There's healing aspects that are so different each of those and that's why I like that we break down that postpartum time period. So yes, I love talking about as the fourth trimester because I think it shifts the mindset a little bit in that you're like, Okay, I'm still I still need to care for myself. You know, like, you know what happens in the first trimester and then expect this in the second trimester, it puts it into that frame in that mindset instead of like, oh, you had the baby and now it's said done. I don't know. I like that. It shifts the mindset a bit there.

Unknown Speaker  10:04  

Well, I when you think about how you take care of yourself during pregnancy and how you take care of how your baby's being taken care of which is constant nutrition, constant, warm environment constant close to their, their mother, constant movement, like all of those things, plus how the mother's taking care of themselves during pregnancy, if you said, I'm going to do my best to keep that going. For 12 weeks after I give birth, Game Changer advantage. If you look at your baby, as instead of being like they're on the outside of me now. Their needs are like a grown child. No, it's they just came from your womb where they're constantly getting fed. They're constant having their needs met. They're constantly in movement. They're constantly hearing their mother's voice and heartbeat, and then how you're taking care of yourself. Like if we just extended that, I think and for for partners for family around a birthing person who just gave us a mother who just gave birth if shifting that perspective to so it's the it's the mother's perspective that we want to help change as well as other people who are who are supporting someone who just had a baby and really supporting them for 12 weeks after giving birth. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  11:18  

I think and I'm glad that there's more, I think, I think there's a shift now. And I hear too, in the birthing community as far as that focus on that postpartum time period, as well. And so I know we have, we have quite a few episodes that we've done previously on postpartum and so with episode 36. That's tips. For the fourth trimester. That's what we had titled that one episode 23 This was more this is a fitness one I did return to running but it's that postpartum aspect, but I get a little spicy in that one too, in that it's not it's not a comeback. You know, it's a come into that and that was a fun thing to do. And then real early on episode 68. We had a three part series on like postpartum essentials, things to buy things that you can't buy, you know, ways to care for yourself support. And then I just did an episode two with Gigi, I didn't even put this in here. But when talking about mattresses, that's what she's a postpartum doula. And she focuses on that shift in identity into motherhood and that mattresses aspects of things and that post goes postpartum changes. And so she focuses on that as a postpartum doula. I love that. So that was so again, I guess due to stay with the show, this isn't an exhaustive list. This is things that came to mind for us. But also we have several episodes that we've done before that go way more in depth. And so that's our goal is to get mentioned the terms and then just to help you kind of do a little bit of research there and to anything that you know, further research and digging. Yeah, just planting,

Unknown Speaker  12:58  

planting seeds, planting seeds. So the next postpartum, kind of, there's one term but then there's a lot of sub terms, but it's breastfeeding. And so this is obviously where you feed your baby with your breast and your milk. There are lots of ways to nourish your baby. You can use another person's another by lactating person's milk and give that through a bottle. You can give your breast milk or bottle obviously you can do formula. So this is there are that could be a topic of its own. But here we're just talking specifically about breastfeeding. Most people in my experience want to at least start and try to breastfeed. So that's why we're going to talk about it here. Because even if you don't have like, a goal of feeding for a year or two years, like you're still one if you give birth from your uterus, and you have a placenta you're going to lactate. So whether or not you decide to send the signal to your body to keep lactating which is by expressing love from the breast feeding directly from the rest, or you decide to stop that process which is meaning you're not going to remove the milk so the body will get the signal. Yeah and stop making the milk. Either way, it's something you want to be familiar with.

Unknown Speaker  14:27  

And you want to be familiar with it in that prenatal time period. This is another one to where we've talked about in your childbirth education classes. I think it's really important to have some sort of breastfeeding knowledge or some sort of connection to someone with that knowledge. I just instead of like an after the fact kind of thing or like, Oh, I'll worry about that later. Like I know there's a lot going on a prenatal but I think it is extremely, extremely beneficial to be aware of that and it's not necessarily like you don't just say like knowing the ins and outs. It's kind of like, I just remember learning different holes. And so I remember I was like, Oh, I can hold the baby like this. I remember this and it was just that felt empowering as well. So then being able to know like okay, some of the words we're gonna talk about like latch learning these things and what to look for what to know, before it's not necessarily that you're like trying to pass a test. Once baby's born. It's just like, familiarize yourself with

Unknown Speaker  15:24  

the word because there's so much to learn. And while it's very, very natural, and wow, with support and time it is very achievable. It is not easy, but natural and easy. Don't mean the same thing here. If there's a learning like especially if it's your first time doing it, you have to learn some things your baby has instincts for breastfeeding but still have to learn how to do it effectively and and uncoordinated and that takes time. So latch that's a word you just said that's you know, an one is latch right. So this is where, how the baby is, is removing the milk from the breath like with their tongue, with their lips with their mouth, and getting a good deep latch is super, super important to how they remove the milk from the breasts, how effectively they move it and then how it feels to you if the latch is too shallow or the baby is more chopping than sucking the neck and create discomfort. So you wouldn't be aiming for a very deep Blach as much of the aerial and the mouth as possible the nipple towards the top and back of the mouth and then watching making sure the baby's lips are flashed out. And they're kind of looking up more so than like a tuck chin. Yes, there's like a lot lots of of little little things that make a big difference with the latch. And this is where taking a breastfeeding course you're going to learn more about this like I cover it in my childbirth education class. So a good comprehensive childbirth education class is going to cover it. I still recommend a separate breastfeeding class. They're usually like two to three hours you can do a lot of them online now in person is better because you can practice some of the holes but learning about how your baby is latching on again. Most of the time you don't just put a baby to the breast and then watch perfectly without some sort of guidance and assistance and insurance that it's all going well. So working with a lactation consultant is also very, very helpful. And if you get birth in a hospital, typically there's one who will make around and check on you but we again just like taking the breastfeeding class before you give birth, connecting with a lactation consultant ibclc so international board certified lactation consultant is as great before you get birth doing like a console figuring out like, do they do virtual? Do they come to my house? Do I have to go to them? Where are they located and they take insurance, like do I jive with them? Do all that before because once your baby's here and you're a little bit sleep deprived, you're recovering and maybe he's having a hard time and you're on Earth and you want to be able to do like speed dial a lactation consultant and

Unknown Speaker  18:22  

that stress translates into milk production like it is all connected there. So start out start being easy and it can be as simple as it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be super complicated to fix some issues as well too. So if like the latch is difficult, you're having a really hard time. Don't freak out because it may not be something that is so terribly it might complicated might just be oh the chin is a little tucked haven't lifted ahead, pledge that or look out and that might make all the difference right so

Unknown Speaker  18:53  

the sooner you can get that fixed, the better so that you don't get cracked blistered nipples, and if they're removing the milk effectively then that same the signal to the body to make the milk so you're not dealing with a decrease in supply. latch is really important to understand about what's a good latch and then when the poor latch like a shallow latch or lips tucked in or just sucking on the nipple or or if the nipple comes out and it's shaped like a lipstick. Tube lipstick. Like that's not great. You don't want your nipple shaped like that. That means there's a problem with the lap so like knowing what a poor latch that's like too. So we've said latch a lot here. And so that's why we want to mention it because it's an important component to breastfeeding. Especially initially getting started on the right foot here. So breastfeeding course lactation consultant, and self learning. I mean, I learned a lot we share a lot of videos on YouTube. So I mean, you can go kind of digging or you know lol ha lien is a great resource. They have lots of free information online where you can go on a self exploration process too, so just lean in.

Unknown Speaker  20:08  

Exactly. Um, sometimes you'll hear the word colostrum which is just the first milk so a lot of times to when it's not like you're all of a sudden gave birth and now it's just massive amounts of milk typically, that's not what you see. It's very, like creamy. You know, it's got a different consistency than what you would think of as like normal what you see someone who has pumped milk or just a glass and look like it's it's very different. It is very rich. In nutrients though so it's a really good it's a really good thing for baby. You can still be baby if you've got colostrum for a little bit and like it takes a little bit of time for milk to fully settle in and you can even Yeah, it can take a bit and it's okay. It's okay. It's normal. Keep putting baby to breast colostrum. And like I said it is very, very rich in nutrients though. And which I just think is part of like just the beautiful design of how we're made. I don't I just think it's really, really cool. But even moms can collect that colostrum you might have some that comes out prenatally like while you are pregnant, you know Close to close to term. So I just had a mom the other day she we were having latch issues and some ties needed to be revised, which I haven't read on the list. We didn't even have you know type of oral tissue. I feel like that's an entire episode so yeah, definitely. But anyways, but she had collected the colostrum and so they were doing some some sometimes we can do like SNS, some some supplemental nursing things to help baby get that classroom as well too. And so you can still have that successful breastfeeding journey, even if it has like a rocky start at the beginning. So

Unknown Speaker  21:59  

we encourage our clients to hand Express starting around 38 weeks, maybe you have colostrum. Maybe you don't that is not a sign that you will or will not have milk after you give birth you will most likely have milk like it's very very rare. So if you don't have Glasgow please don't be discouraged. But you could always test it out and see, starting after 38 weeks of human expression releases oxytocin which can stimulate contractions you don't want to do that too soon. And you can buy a little one milliliter or three milliliters syringes, buy them on Amazon and you can collect the milk and a cup via hand expression and then put it in those tiny syringes because the baby doesn't take the baby's tummy when I'm born like the size of the cherry, if like a half a teaspoon is all they really need to fill them up. So if there's any sort of like extended separation after you give birth, or a reason that the baby's not able to latch your feed right away, they had your milk. So it's a great thing that it's a little insurance, and it's a good practice. I read or listened to something recently that was like getting collecting the colostrum beforehand actually has just greater benefit of familiarizing yourself with the process. of expressing milk and it's a boost in confidence. If you do have some you're like okay, I can do this before you're to the point because a lot of people just doubt I think there's so much misconception around lack of milk supply around that it's some people fear that they're like I'm not gonna make it up and then it takes three to five days. I'll say it again. It takes three to five days for your mature milk to come in. Until then all your baby needs is colostrum. There is like this misconception that your baby needs to be taking the full bottle one day after giving birth and that is not the case, as long as you're able to hand Express into a spoon into a cup or into their directly into their mouth. Also cool tip silver. Rhett's I mentioned that on the list too. You can use a silver cup which are little nipple covers. They're little like they're shaped like hats and they're made out of pure silver and they cover your nipple so they help your nipple from like cracking or that helps you nibble heel. You can put a little bit of breast milk into the cup and then put it right over your nipple but another use for the silver cup is and then last forever, very durable, obviously reusable. They're like antifungal antibacterial, they're like and it's all just because of being made of silver. But if you have your silver cups with you after you've given birth, you can take that little cup and hand Express into the silver cup and then pour it directly into baby's mouth as like it's just because somebody will might try using a spoon or or collecting an interest syringe but if you're right there near your baby, you just hand express more into the into the cup and then more into their mouth. It's just a good thing to have with you after you give birth so I kind of skipped ahead to silver and now that's fine. You're on the list. But silver hats are great. Like there's lots of like, baby items out there. Most of them not necessary but I think silver adds is one I would prioritize on the baby registry list. For all the reasons I just said and after a feeding you would just pop the little cigarettes over your nipples, and then you know they can go on your bra or in your tank top or whatever. And then it's gonna help healing help protect the nipple. All that yeah, multi use uses. Yeah. So yeah, I wanted to highlight that the about the mature milk coming in, but then that also leads to what happens when the mature milk comes in. Gorgeous,

Unknown Speaker  25:37  

gorgeous, man. Yeah. And that weren't nearly as comfortable,

Unknown Speaker  25:39  

huh? Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  25:43  

And it sometimes happens sometimes it doesn't. You can get like clogged ducts that can be kind of part of it as well to somebody that really helps with it is continued nursing can really help not necessarily adding in more pumping sessions because then you're making more milk you're sending a signal to the brain that you know milk and you may not necessarily need more milk but having baby baby suction is just perfection, you know, for the most part and so is really, really good for baby and when you do nurse it sends those signals back up to the brain as far as how much milk needs to be made. So, but again to keeping in touch with lactation consultants, if you are experiencing and gorge vent because if it isn't addressed, you can you know, in other word mastitis you can get some sort of the inflammation aspect of the milk ducts in that point so not always will engagement lead to that but you know part of that gives

Unknown Speaker  26:42  

you some encouragement is normal a lot of parent people experience it's when the milk comes in and the body hasn't regulated how much is needed. And so in gorge Mint is where the breasts are firm and hard and full of milk and so you definitely do not want to add in pumping at the stage you want unless so the only time you have a pump is if the baby is not feeding directly from the breast and you only pump every two to three hours when the baby because if you add in beating or pumping unnecessarily you will have more engagement. Yeah, it's a supply and demand as much as removed sends a signal to the body. This is what we need to make. But at first it's like we don't know the by it's like we don't know how much we need. Maybe you have twins maybe you just have one I don't know I'm gonna give you all the amount possible. So you should be really, really firm. So you want to make sure frequent feedings with the baby or pumping only to replace the feeding, not to and then it regulates so really, really full for that first week and then it tapers and then something that happens is that the body fully regulate and some people feel like that that fullness goes away. And they think it means that they're not making as much milk and then I think my supply has gone down and I'm more times than not I'm like no your body's just regulating your baby's getting more efficient at removing the milk. Feeding usually gets easier once the mature milk does come in because milk is flowing. And babies latch tends to improve when there's when there's milk flowing out in the way that mature milk flows out. But there's lots of things to do for comfort for encouragement. warm compresses, I like the formula, warm compress or warm bath or shower for a shooting feed and then do a cold compress afterwards. Over we don't need to massage the breasts in an aggressive way. You would do like lymphatic type of massage. So really gentle stroking on the top of the tissue versus like digging in and causing unnecessary inflammation so the clog that's actually come where the the ducts are inflamed and not in the middle trying to come through and it can't. So lymphatic massage is really good versus like aggressive massage to help keep clogged ducts at bay so warm compress cold compress lymphatic massage, hydration, frequent feedings and time

Unknown Speaker  29:24  

Yeah, time by now and that's another thing Yeah, it doesn't happen to everybody but at the beginning is typically when you feel or even if you've gone like overnight and baby has slept a little bit longer than normal you might you know experience that of course but to

Unknown Speaker  29:38  

remember that yeah and another tip is if you if it's been at the baby slept for a while and you wake up and you're really full and firm or if you're experiencing engorgement, you're really falling firm. A tip can be to hand Express or hand pot, not electric pump that just like released the valve, like get like kind of get a little you can do a bit of that

Unknown Speaker  0:02  

Get some of the letdown out, soften it a little bit by removing some of the milk before you start the beating with the baby and it can make it easier for them to latch. If the breast is really, really firm. It's harder for them to latch. So if you notice that it's not nice and supple, then you can hand Express kind of get going get it soft and then put the baby on. Mm hmm. So we at hand express on our list as well too. So that's kind of part of that.

Unknown Speaker  0:29  

There's different types of looking at feeding so we've got cluster feeding. We have like feeding on demand looking at hunger cues, like some of those, I think all of our little words here can kind of be kind of lumped into a similar category and so that can be babies when they are newborn you will feel like that is all you are doing is nursing baby. Like as soon as you stop up, it's I felt like, oh, it's time to nurse again. Oh my gosh. So it can be exhausted in that aspect. But it's also like that it's very normal for them to eat frequently. They shift in the amount that they eat as they grow as well too. So sometimes you'll have those clustered meetings where it's like, I feel like I'm feeding him every 30 minutes. It happens. It ebbs and flows with growth of baby. I mean it's just it's a really cool thing, but it's also learning, learning you and learning your baby's hunger cues and there's reasons why in sign language, isn't this the sign for milk? You know, like there's reasons why like I'm just opening and closing like hands. You can read some of these little hunger cues and babies because you can when they get upset and it's like okay, we've changed the diaper. They're not gassy. You know, you go through your list of what could be going wrong and why are they upset, you know, really trying to read into what is going on but you've got it's just a process of learning your baby's rhythm, and how often they need to eat which can be put at the beginning. Yeah, it was babies. It's not, you know, it's not, you know, it was with formula feeding. It is sort of like a certain number of ounces in a certain number of hours. So like, couple ounces every two to four hours. It's very structured with breastfeeding. It's not structured. It might be a few short feedings close together, and then a long feeding and then a break. And then a short feeding and then long it's like these like it's not predictable. And it's not we want to normalize that because that's the baby they're still learning. They're still little say they there's lots of benefits to breastfeeding besides nutrition. Right? They get comfort sucking as a Natural Soothing type, you know, soothing thing for babies. So being near you, like all of these things are going to help soothe the baby that come with breastfeeding, but normalizing cluster feeding and that they you know might be in a growth spurt or, and babies in this first handful of weeks go through a lot of growth and development. So they might need to eat more frequently, closer together. And that's okay, that's normal. So if you're trying to it might stress you out that you're not getting that consistent two to four hours, but again with breastfeeding it changes and then over time, and I always say by six weeks, you have some consistent predictability in the feeding schedule. So you can just like hang in there. And then the cluster feeding is like what might occur in short bursts of time like it might happen through the night or might have been for a couple of days in a row where it feels like they're feeding in the cluster is that they're doing a lot of short feedings sort of back to back without a big gap in between. And that might happen but then you might get a few days of, of extended time in between feedings. And really knowing too that you would want to aim to get like 10 to 15 minutes of good nutritive second on both sides. And if it feels like they're falling asleep after they nurse on one side and you decide not to feed them on the other side, they might wake sooner or want to eat sooner. than if you really tried to get both feedings in so if they fall asleep on one side, you can sort of try and wake them up, undress them, change their diaper, burn them, try and bring them back awake and feed them on the other side so that you can get as much as possible and then you should get a bigger gap. But sometimes babies just want to nurse back to that and that is just the nature of it. And then that feeding on demand is a way of feeding and saying when I see my baby's hunger cues, I'm going to feed them I'm going to try to be available to them as much as I can and feed them directly from the breast.

Unknown Speaker  4:50  

On on demand right? Nearly on a clock schedule or the time schedule Exactly. And that is encouraged to establish a good breastfeeding relationship and then down the road after that six week mark whenever when milk supply is established, the breastfeeding relationship is established, then you can try to look more for a schedule. It'll be easier for that to happen. But giving yourself that for six weeks, and then the hunger cues. You know, this is something I really encourage people to learn about. And again, it's something that could be you want to go deeper on but we're not gonna probably go deep here, but your baby since cues to you before crying crying is the last you hunger cue. So everything up to that is it could be tight fists, like you said. Opening and closing so open and relaxed hands is a signal that they are satiated height this is a sign that they're hunger hungry you know rooting side to side so turning their head looking you can tell they're looking for the breath looking for the bottle looking for something that's a sign, opening and closing their mouth pushing at the top of their tongue thrusting the tongue out pushing against the top of their mouth. And this is all while they're calm. Right? And if they're sleeping, sometimes you can see them coming out of their sleep and their eyelids are closed but their eyes are moving fast back and forth. So sometimes if you tried to feed them and that stage before they even wake up you can do what's called a dream feed and then avoid a fussy baby. Much because the babies are normal not to say anything wrong with that but knowing what the hunger cues are both for crying can be really really helpful to avoid getting to an overly upset baby listen.

Unknown Speaker  6:40  

If they're overly stimulated and upset and it's harder for them to make and really impact the latch. Yeah, yes hard to get them on. So learning and then knowing that you will learn your baby in time so learn on some of these cues are but then you'll learn the difference in your baby's cries. Oh yeah, what is gassy? What is tired, what is overstimulated? What is hungry, and just know that that comes with time, but we encourage learning about hunger cues and then satiated cues right like I already kind of said when the hands are relaxed, the whole body tends to be relaxed when they're not hungry. And then, you know, the absence of all of the other hunger cues would be a sign that the baby is associated with school. And we have more in depth episodes about this. So episode 63 We did that's more breastfeeding tips and resources. And then another one, it's a little bit more of how the birth process can impact infant feeding. So not so much breastfeeding tips, but that one is a good one. That's episode 95 where we kind of dive deeper a little bit there with how nursing can be impacted by the birth process by easy right and consists of all the things all the things All right, so another postpartum term and this is more of when we introduce the show and talking about a lot of times people thought postpartum meant like depression, like there's a whole mood aspect that's associated with the mental health aspect that's associated with postpartum and so you can have I mean, there's typically three main mood disorders and so you have what is called baby blues, you can have what is postpartum depression or anxiety and then you can have postpartum psychosis and so I'm listing those in typically almost like the baby blues are typically a little bit earlier you know, after birth earlier and most common and most common, exactly. So those are also listed in that order. Because you can have I've read from anywhere like 50 to 80% of my was a huge, it can be really high. Yeah, that is that's those baby blues, it's usually those first few weeks. It typically goes away after that after you kind of settle in this is part of that muttrah sense, you know, once you kind of settle in, but the biggest difference between a full blown clinical definition of postpartum depression versus baby blues is really going to be the severity of those symptoms, those blue symptoms, the sadness, the upset, anxiety, depression, and also the length of time so again to this episode is not going to be all encompassing with mental health aspects of things.

Unknown Speaker  9:40  

But we want to mention these terms. Because we I know we both talk about this a lot in the office and it is totally It is a common thing. Those are the baby blues. I mean it is you've got so many hormonal changes and this could be whether you had a traumatic birth or whatever, whether the birth was everything that you wanted it to be, you can still have some of those thoughts and feelings that are just it's like the overwhelm. It's the I don't know how to take care of this but am I doing this right or in it's it's, you're tired, you're hormonal your healing lady weeping. My tears are no explicable reason you said, most of my postpartum exams, there's tears and there's it's totally so I'm crying, but I don't know what's going on, I guess. Yeah. And I'm like, and that's really more likely to happen in the first two weeks. And that's because that's about the timeframe it takes to sort of regulate everything else. You're having these big surges. And so you know, some ways that it's been described to me is that baby blues can template to typically be resolved with a hug and a nap or shifting of what you're doing. You know, typically you can kind of get out of it, you can get out of it. Yeah, and it comes and goes, and a lot of times they'll say, you know, I'm really I feel happy I feel good. I just have tears or something like that. I don't know why so me I'm okay. That's very, very baby blues to be expected.

Unknown Speaker  11:09  

So knowing that and then really being aware of the difference, and if anything, persist after that two to three week mark, and you can't really get out of it. If it's persistent, persistent feelings are down nests of lack of motivation of persistent overwhelmed, persistent anxiety, if that's just like a recurrent and there's nothing that you can sort of do to get out of it. You want to get help. I cannot say it in that the sooner you get help from a Peri natal mental health counselor, not your OBGYN. You need specific counseling for postpartum mood disorders. For someone who just had a baby and now that OBGYN can be a great resource, but then I want you to mention it. You know, we might want you to mention it. If you say some of them, they can help you. They're not going to be the one who's going to pick up on it 100% They see you once, maybe twice. Right, and maybe not until six weeks after you've given birth at that point. It's too long, right? So they can be a great resource. If they are your only person. You need to talk to them, talk to them. However, I'm speaking to family, friends, partners, husbands, people who are in direct support of someone who just gave birth look out for the signs and symptoms of postpartum depression and anxiety. And don't just chalk it up to Oh, you just had a baby. That's what baby blues are first two weeks, anything that persists beyond that, and that is what we just described. The sooner you get help, the shorter and less severe the symptoms will be and the better off mom and baby will be. It's really, really hard and we can't expect the birthing person to ask for it always. Because if you're in that state, anyone who's experienced any degree of it, you know, it's hard to ask for help or to say, I think I have postpartum depression most of the time. It's not self identified. Sometimes it is and kudos if you're able to do that. Then it's for everyone else to say, You know what I'm picking up on the side picking up on some things and then figuring out how to meaningfully support that person. And being in touch with a perinatal mental health counselor again before you give birth can be really really helpful. Again, insurance location, virtual versus in person, how can they help me having them on ready to go if you do need them can be really helpful because you've already done some of the hard work to figure out who you're going to use, and then they're ready to go. So that's really, really important. It's common one and seven, are going to experience postpartum depression and or anxiety. So knowing that and knowing that the sooner you can get help, the better off you will be is really, really important.

Unknown Speaker  13:59  

Exactly. I love everything that you just said. I know it I try to tell my moms like I want them to. I want them to communicate with their partner and with their family. I want you to tell your family, when you're overwhelmed. You don't necessarily need to say like I'm feeling really depressed, but you can say, I'm really upset. I'm really I'm overwhelmed. I'm not sure how to do this now. Like you're asking for help. Like I want you to name what you are thinking and feeling and going through because then your support team around you can be like okay, we are now out. We're now at six weeks, you know or something that's later on. Okay, this is still continuing I've seen this person still saying these words. So I think it's it's almost like that naming of the feelings and thoughts and emotions that you have not necessarily trying to like you know, say that I have I feel depressed you may not. It may not come out like that right now can look different. I just I'm obsessively compulsive over this one thing. I'm having intrusive thoughts. I feel like I have to have a perfect house and I don't have time to clean it. I'm stressed by my partner going back to work whatever like name it name I love that name it be able but that this comes with practice and you have to be familiar with it and exercising this muscle of naming what you're feeling and knowing that there's not always an immediate fix. But if you can communicate to your people what you're feeling, then they and then if I look at you need support, or do you need solutions? Like I love that response when someone's like, expressing distress Okay, do you want support or do you want solutions? I heard that somewhere recently and I don't remember where I think it was on handset politics, but like this idea of I okay and and then that so that's the response to the person to the safe place and then you might be like, I just want to talk it out. I don't have any solutions. I just needed to I needed to like get it out of it. Okay, oh yes, I do need solutions and then the people who come in and try and help not everything always needs to be fixed. But I think we have to break down the stigma of the expectation on new mothers to be perfect to be happy to be doing it all to be in blissful new motherhood. Right. Like I think Ray said everything is yeah, it's the showcase of it. Yeah. And I think that was that's what makes it harder for the new mom to name it. Like it's it sounds great in theory, but I know that so many people that ends up not happening because they have to there's a stigma, unintentional or not, right societal pressure, familial pressure, whatever to be a certain way makes it harder for them to speak and name it. That's why it takes practice and that's why like I think talking about it here. So important. Learning about prenatally exercising the muscle of communication with the partner with your close family people of what you're experiencing and if you need support or solutions, and that way you're kind of in that mode, but I think we have to overcome the stigma has started with her affection for new moms. That makes it harder for them to because I think so many people are like why? Why not just ask for help? Like, don't you think a lot of people are just dismissive and you should ask for help. Why didn't you ask for help sooner? The pressure to be perfect and do it all is insurmountable. And so we have to figure out how to meaningfully support new moms so that they have the space to name it. I love that phrasing. I do too. I do too.

Unknown Speaker  17:36  

And it's that it's the the family friends partner. We're on your like the noticing of it too. So it's not all on mom. Like okay, we also need to notice these thoughts and feelings. It's like that's the collective of okay, I'm seeing this tendency and so what can I do to help and then learning with the symptoms and signals, symptoms, signal signs Exactly. A lot of times I want to know with my mom's in my exam, but do we have a history of depression or anxiety outside of pregnancy? Because not saying that you will have postpartum depression or anxiety, but you do have an increased risk because it is such a big shift and I've had some moms that are really great and saying specifically what is I am concerned with this the transition of how to care for this like the specifics of what they are concerned with. And that's wonderful when you can name that specifically. We have that history of that because then you can go and get set up definitely beforehand, prenatally with the mental health aspects and it doesn't mean that there's nothing wrong with having to go on medication or looking at things in that postpartum time period. But just because you are having those feelings doesn't mean that you are going to have to be right so it's not a reason not to seek help. Exactly. So I also want to erase that stigma of things. Right, you know, it's it's, everybody's different. Everybody has different needs. Everyone has different biochemical individuality and different things going on. And so that is what the therapist is there to really look at and say okay, I think we can use these coping mechanisms or maybe we need a little bit something different or even looking at like food and diet and nutrition like some, you know, sleep.

Unknown Speaker  19:21  

We talked about this a lot with our clients of aiming and prioritizing sleep like and how that has an impact on the severity and the intensity of the depression or the anxiety. And so how do we get sleep especially with a newborn right so that's all about support system is all about figuring out with your partner sharing the workload sharing the sleep load sharing the baby duty load. And carving out where you can get like three, four or five hours of sleep in a row. And that takes you know, and obviously, not everyone is partnered or has a husband or someone in the home but you know, who can come in who can you bring in and that is also one of our terms of like, postpartum doula, and how back can really help facilitate sleep and rest and how with sleep and rest that is one of the factors that can help like you were saying, like non pharmacological, non like, things like that, like really addressing sleep and nutrition, and making sure that we're getting those and sometimes you need someone else to help you get those things. And a postpartum doula who can really help they come in, in that time in that postpartum phase, either immediately or within that first 12 weeks and get in there. They're going to help take care of the baby while you sleep. Couldn't have a doula overnight, who's tending to all the baby needs while you sleep, and then you can still feed the baby, breastfeed, all of that, but knowing that the baby is with a trained professional, and so that helps people sleep a lot easier and deeper. And oh my goodness, that's life giving. I mean, how many times have you heard someone come in and say I got four hours of sleep? I feel like a new person. Right? So then about multiple nights of one hour increments a slave or two hours, that's gonna have an impact on how you experience overall so and then they can come in during the day and help Bert with cleaning, meal prep, running like errands, you know, my household chores, like things like that, again, to help you focus on rest and recovery and that the emotional, physical, meaning all of those needs, it's going to help you avoid any sort of severe depression and anxiety. It's not a fix for sure, but it can just help. So if you're a friend or family member, how can you help this your your close friend or family member get? Postpartum doula, right? Like, think about funding that think about like, how can you really support in a meaningful way? It's not about things. It's about support and sharing. They've got postpartum doula chiropractic care, like food. That's what they need. They don't need things.

Unknown Speaker  22:06  

That's exactly tip. Now we very briefly talked about like the postpartum psychosis. That's extremely rare. We're not going you know further into that, but that is definitely more of like the extreme aspects of harm to self harm to baby but it is something to mention it is part of those mood disorders and it needs to be you need to be aware of it and you know, those warning signs and symptoms, but that's where we bring in that mental health counselor. So that's on our list of terms. There's also I really do love Postpartum Support International and they have a lot of different chapters, so they should have a different chapter in every state psi. There are definitely heavy on social media. They do this wonderful thing called climb out of darkness. I believe it so they'll do hikes and things and get moms together because it's almost helping you create that community as well too. So that when you can talk to other new moms who are going through similar things that you may be having same thoughts and emotions, that community support can also be very beneficial. Those sorts of feelings, maybe of loneliness, even if you do have your partner like it can still feel very overwhelming because you were the one that just you know, gave birth. So Postpartum Support, we'll put there we'll link to them as well.

Unknown Speaker  23:27  

And we have we do I do want to briefly mention this. We do have past episodes on with some mental health counselors, and we do have some upcoming episodes. Well, I say upcoming they may have already come out by the time this comes out. I don't know when this episode is coming out, but we so it's out. And so episode 79 I had Dr. Megan Toups on and she we talked about embracing the perfections and motherhood she was talking about anxiety into awakening and that aspect of things and then with Shannon wiced You are not alone. And so that's another episode we did episode 44.

Unknown Speaker  24:04  

And I think it's just important to hear from several different professionals because people are going to say things in a different way a different manner that are going to align with you and you just might need to hear it from someone differently. Just like every counselor, you know, you might mesh with some not mesh with others, but I think it's important to continue that the conversation there. So I know we're looking forward to having more perinatal mental health counselors on who are going to be speaking to very specific segments of this topic, specifically like black maternal mental health, and the importance of that. Just the whole topic for maternal mental health and raising awareness around that. I think that's really stigmas around it. Yeah. In the stigma and given the resources. We're talking about what to look for, and this is where I think it's so so important for people around the birthing person to be aware of it's not just for the birthing person. So I'm excited for continuing the conversation around that and then I did want to highlight we're going to link the the EPDs that an ember postnatal depression scale. It's a it's a survey where you can do a self assessment of where you're at on the spectrum of postpartum depression and anxiety or or baby blues and, and it can be an indicator of if you need to seek help.

Unknown Speaker  25:31  

Sometimes, different providers will screen and use that as a screening tool, but you can do it on yourself and then take that to your doctor and be like, this is the one I got back. What do you think right or the partner can encourage like, hey, let's let's do this. Survey and just see where you're at.

Unknown Speaker  25:49  

So it's a tool. It's not a it's not a diagnosis, or a certainty thing. It's just a tool, but we will leave that and another thing is using your birth support team as well. So you know, you may not If you do the regular OB appointment at six weeks, you know, that's a long time. A lot has happened since you had the baby so you may have already seen and gone in because you can see a pelvic floor therapist before that checkup you can see a chiropractor before that checkup. You can interact with a lactation consultant, you know, before that checkup as well. Use them to and talk to them because they more than likely have those resources as well. So even if you didn't get anything set prenatally and this kind of came out of nowhere and you weren't necessarily expecting it or maybe you know they're picking up on some things, some words that you're saying that type of thing. I'm just use them as well as that resource team and reaching out. So again, to just being you know, open with with them in that healthcare field. Sometimes maybe it's easier to be open with people in that healthcare field than it is with a partner or a spouse to sometimes vice versa. But, you know, they've got the resources as well, to help kind of point you in the right direction. Yeah, that's fine. Building your support team. Your village is so so important during pregnancy and that postpartum base

Unknown Speaker  27:30  

Alright, so our episode here, went a little crazy. We just paused and had a vine seeds chat, because would you know, we've already been talking for an hour and we still have a whole other page of notes to chat about. So we didn't even get to the postpartum terms for baby. So welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker  27:51  

Welcome. Yeah, welcome to the show. Um, so what we're gonna do is we're going to turn this into a four part series, so who knew, you know, there were so many vocab words to know. But this one I like this one is when really highlighted all of our postpartum terms for mom and looking at defining postpartum, really looking really good in depth with breastfeeding because I think that's so important and then that mental health component down, but that was the thing too is we didn't want to cut any of that short because everything was really important to talk about. So I'm glad we were able to get that in today.

Unknown Speaker  28:29  

Because sometimes your baby coming up next. Oh my goodness. I love it. Yeah, well, thank you guys for listening today. This has been super fun sharing. We're very excited for part four of this series.