Ep 63: Breastfeeding Tips and Resources

In honor of World Breastfeeding Week (which is August 1-7), Dr. Shannon and doula Rachael sit down and chat about their own breastfeeding experiences.  And although through both of their experiences they were able to nurse their 2 children for ~ 2 years each, their journeys were very different.  From battling cesarean recovery to bottle refusal to mastitis and forceful letdowns, they share what worked for them and what helped in their breastfeeding experiences.  They then share what tips and resources they offer their patients, pulled from their own experiences, from the experiences of the moms and families they work with, and other birth professionals and lactation experts in the community.  These tips and resources are not exhaustive though!  One key aspect to having a satisfying breastfeeding journey is finding the support and help that you need, and a key factor that both Dr. Shannon and Rachael agree on is taking breastfeeding and lactation support classes while pregnant and connecting with a lactation consultant.  

Resources:

Watch your posture! - Ep 31: Why is nursing posture important 

Ep 57: Pediatric Chiropractic Care and Cranial Adjustments - Interview with Dr. Martin Rosen

Badass Breastfeeding Podcast

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.  We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.  We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!  If you like what you are hearing and you don’t want to miss our newest episodes, be sure and tap subscribe. Your support is greatly appreciated.
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Transcript

0:02

Hello friends, you are listening to the aligned birth podcast. Dr. Shannon here and doula Rachel is here as well. We are the hosts and today's birth. The episode is all about breastfeeding. And what we're going to talk about is what Rachel and I have both experienced ourselves in our own breastfeeding journey. So we each have two boys. And so we'll go into what that looked like for us what season of life we were in then because I know I was not Wareham now when I was a nursing mom. And I think the same goes for Rachel as well. So we'll we'll talk a little bit about that. But then she as a doula, she goes over breastfeeding support lactation. Help with her clients. And so I go over those things in the office as well too as a chiropractor. So we have just some of the tips and things that we share with our moms that come in and then I'm also wanting to mention where to go for additional support and resources and information that could be beneficial for you in your nursing journey. So I am excited to chat about this today with you, Rachel.

1:27

Hi, Dr. Shannon. Very excited to be having this conversation with you. I love that it's right in the middle of World breastfeeding week. This is what's this come up a lot with our client. It's all the time I mean, breastfeeding, chest feeding, nursing, infant feeding period is one of the hardest things I ever did. One of the hardest things I ever navigated and learned about and I think it's helped me be a better birth worker, but there's still so much to learn. And I just think the pressure on feeding a tiny human is insurmountable sometimes. So we're just here to share some tips and some information some real life experiences, resources that can hopefully help make your journey a little bit easier navigate.

2:10

Yes, and you had mentioned so we are in the middle of World breastfeeding week so this will not come out during row best, but we were inspired. That week is right now so it feels important to top of mind. Let's talk about it because I've been seeing it so much on social media and stuff. So that yeah, it inspired us and so and what you had said so true. I mean it is it was it can be very difficult because I do think it's like that Crusher with it. You always I feel like this is one of the most common postpartum conversations I have in the office stems around. Nursing. Like, you know, postpartum recovery. Yeah, a little bit there. Yeah, that's some back pain, but a lot of it is like, and it's all the things around it. It's, you know, it's the latch. It's the letdown. It's nipple bleeding, it's posture. It's reflux, it stood up. It's like it's all tied on tight. Like it's so much pressure in there. can be it can be a lot. It can be a lot. So.

3:28

Absolutely. And so we're going to start by sharing a little bit about our personal experiences. So do you want to go first and share a little bit about your breastfeeding journeys?

3:38

Yeah, so I so when I was pregnant with my first I was working at the CDC in Atlanta, I was not a chiropractor, adjusted about that. So I do remember, I looked at the childbirth education classes that were through the hospital, not have or anything like that. And I took they also at CDC, they had offered a breastfeeding class. And so I took that class, as well. I remember my husband came with me and I very vividly remember that class and it was just went into, like, what the latches what the latch looks like, what it should sound like you know, and also like different holds that you could do. And I was writing the notes for are the outline for this. And I remember I literally remember thinking like, Oh, hell no, this does not sound fun at all. Like, I mean, I legit and I was like, oh, I'll just I'll just pump exclusively. I was like, this is this sounds like a nightmare. You know? So I literally thought that and I mean, yeah, and so I remember I had my baby, you know, flashback. It was an emergency C section and so dealing with that and I was in the hospital for five days. I'm pretty sure my oldest I didn't nurse him right away. So he definitely had a bottle in the hospital. Like none of that was ideal. That was like, you know, whatever, it's fine. And so I kind of forgot about that. Like, some moms get so discouraged that like I didn't want to nurse him in the hospital and it's not I can't establish this, you know, breastfeeding journey. And I was like, Well, I know I was totally out of it for the first five days of important for

5:30

you to share because Yeah. If I don't bring it right away,

5:37

yeah, it's nipple confusion and these things are real. Yes. But don't let that totally destroy Yeah, totally destroying the potential of that. So then I do remember where we came home. And I just, I had the lactation consultant come to the hospital and everything was kind of fine with with him and like latching like he was latching really well my milk was coming in like it was like those things went well. But I remember what I the big things from the class and that was like the different holds I could do because it was also recovering from a C section as well so that I didn't change you know how it was and so I felt very confident even though I had no clue what I was doing. I felt confident. I still felt confident because I was like, oh, there's this hold and I can do this. Like I remember that from the class. So it made me feel, I don't know, I felt confident they're competent pointlessness, I don't know if that's their confidence. And I remember sending I one thing I do wish I wish we had a pump beforehand. I don't know why I was thinking I was comfortable. But I remember sending him out and being like, you must get one now because like just the oversupply and collecting the milk from the ones that all of the things so so I was able to nurse him for I did 21 months. I can't remember why I stopped. I think I traveled for work. And honestly, he was 21 months and that was like I was only nursing him at night anyways at that point, like kind of weighing down to that aspect. And I was like, Man, I don't feel like this because I did exclusively at work as well for like a whole entire year like the whole time I was at work. It would pump you know so for those two years, like every three to four hours Wow. Like I love that pump, but I also wanted to like shatter that

7:28

wall and

7:31

you know, like, Well, yeah, so that was the first one the second one. My second kit, it was the same thing. I was able to nurse him for 24 months and I think it was just that gradual like ending. I don't think I had a timeframe in mind. I just knew that I wanted to continue nursing for as long as possible. And I loved the progression of it as far as like it turned into that like nightly little routine and it became one of the most rewarding experiences like I can't just remembering going from like, Oh no, I want to do that to like, oh my gosh, this is I don't want it to end you know, like that aspect of things. So that was I nursed I would pump at gas stations. I had a little car charger that had the little pump and style so I would pump the gas stations our bathrooms definitely come to the million bathrooms Yeah, eating you know, eat lunch or whatever. Yeah, I just it was like a little closet too. I pumped all throughout chiropractic school as well too. And there had this like closet that

8:38

oh my gosh, you deserve more than

8:41

I had. Yeah, so I definitely remember going through. I will say CDC had a wonderful nursing room but you also had to like sign up because you shared it with other people. And so then you get into those things where it's like well, you know, I got a pump now and I plan my meetings around it like it was it is a it was a thing. It was like another thing on the schedule. So that aspect of it. Yeah, that's that's what I remember in all the bottles washing all the bottles and all the pieces and the parts

9:09

for the effort. It takes nothing short of miraculous so kudos to you. I had a couple questions. You were talking and I was like I need you to go. So backing up to when you were in the hospital, so you have an unplanned emergency C section. And you're in the hospital for five days, and you ended up nursing your baby for 21 months. Can you share a little bit about what you remember? And I know we're recovering, but like what did you do for those first few days with your baby when you when you said there wasn't a latch right away so were you pumping raise your hand expressing was he just getting a bottle and we were doing nothing like how did that go? Because that's a pretty important time. So if there's anything to share her love to hear

10:03

my now I wish I remember this really well. And I when I was preparing for this I was like What husband go Do you remember why I stopped nursing Ethan? And how long I did it he just laughed. I was like you are

10:16

no I

10:17

don't remember what I did yesterday. And you gotta remember you know my kids told yourself and that's okay.

10:27

You know I I do not remember and expressing at all. So we I nurses in the hospital. I do know that we were there for five days. I didn't

10:41

when you were separated from him? No.

10:43

So I was decorated nobody including NICU. But we were separated and September my husband had to like pick who to go to to get wrong. I was so freakin tired and I was so out of it. I had those stupid compression. That's all I did this compression things on my legs because of like the swelling. It's like so I didn't want him I remember the birth man like I didn't want to nurse him you know immediately but I don't think anybody forgot not that I forgot I had a kid but like I forgot about nursing like I was also just trying to like were so many events and I needed to shoot me so yeah, so I remember just being like, I don't know, if we're at the hospital, he can be taken care of like everything is fine, you know, my husband's there. And I think I found it after the fact that like, oh, he was given formula. Like, I didn't know that. I don't I don't remember that. So my husband might have been like yes, just feed it and you know, like at this point because he's having to go back and forth. But I don't remember hand expressing but I do. Remember it was probably I don't know after I slept and woke up so maybe like that next day. Ish or whatever before. Yeah before so he you know obviously and I wasn't like in pain or anything. I don't remember that. But I do. Remember like the colostrum I remember all of that. Like that still happened even though it was like a delay there. Because

12:17

because a lot holding him for a while. That's an edible and that just shows like Okay, once you were reunited, you know you started doing the things and that you were able to establish latch and milk and have a long, healthy breastfeeding relationship. So I think that's awesome. And that's okay. If you don't remember that the best kind of guy getting a plan but you were so focused on recovery and rent and there's a lot going on that that your baby of course is being fed, but it wasn't like the hyper focus wasn't on Oh, you got a pump every two hours. You got to hand Express, you got to watch somebody will want to do that and that's fine, but knowing that it's okay if there's a little bit of a delay and obviously we want to focus on getting baby last, you know, getting that colostrum into your baby like of course, but it's also like some things happen. And things get disrupted, so kind of rolling with it and then wherever you can, that was

13:07

kind of the Yeah, that theme of just being like, Okay, we're gonna you know, we're still gonna try it. We're still gonna see what happens.

13:13

Yeah, well, that's awesome. And then the other thing I thought was great is that your work offered a breastfeeding class. Yeah, that and the even though was a closet. That sounds like I guess my question is, was your work pretty supportive of breastfeeding mothers or do you feel like there was still pretty high demand on you

13:34

know, CDC was very, I'm trying to remember if there was, where I, because I had two kids while I was there, and I remember the one and there's a bunch of different campuses in Atlanta. So like I was at two different you know, facilities or whatever. And there was one that the one I remember is I had a really nice room and everything like it had you know, and everybody had a little key and there was like a, you know, that Outlook calendar thing so you could see when the room was open, and so you would go in Yeah, so it was super organized in that aspect of things. I know. I think that the other campus I can't remember but yeah, it was like you know, it had a scene had a little refrigerator. You know, like, I love that room. That and that was kind of like my escape to I'm like these people can go take a smoke break so I'm gonna go you know, break but no,

14:29

you should and I mean, that should be part of people's rights at work and that's why I wanted to talk about it and like if you're pregnant, you know, any work, you know, in an office or somewhere obviously outside of the home like talking with your your people to HR or your boss or whatever about what's it gonna look like where's your designated space, like they have to support you during that time and it's crucial in your success with feeding your baby. You know, breast milk you want to do or human milk so anyways, I just thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that you had that available for all the pumping you've had to do.

15:03

No, I'm thankful for that. And then even in chiropractic school, there was a room to you with everybody. Only certain people had a key and they may have changed now but like had a key for the nursing closet. So you would have to you know, sign up. Yeah, I guess I call it nursing class. I mean, it was like, it was just it was like storage room. Yeah. So like there wasn't anything else in it, but it had a table like it had everything that you that you needed. I always would just remember being really paranoid because there were two doors to get in. So I know I'm like, I hope you know that doors locked down there because it's a classroom down there so I could hear the like structure. But, ya know, I remember those times fondly, and also

15:51

also kind of a blur.

15:53

Yeah, definitely kind of a blur.

15:57

That's great. Well, okay, so,

15:59

so but let's dive into your experience. Yeah, so

16:02

I have two boys, nine and six, holy moly, do the math and be like, Oh my gosh, it was nine years ago that I gave birth to my first son, which is bananas. The with Everett, my firstborn. You know, I had seen the business of being born was kind of new. And I know I talked about it a lot. But I had seen that during my pregnancy and it sort of watched me until like a whole new realm of birth preparation. But part of the reason I share that is that prompted me to want to have a doula. And that doula said you need to take childbirth education, and then that childbirth educator said you need to take a breastfeeding class separate from this. And so I listened. I'm like, Yes. I will do the things. And so because that I took an in person, you know, for our breastfeeding class with like a group small group of expecting moms and it was amazing. I tell everyone, I'm like I can help you with breastfeeding. I know a lot about breastfeeding, but take a breastfeeding class because there's so much to learn and like you said, you know, and if you don't know all the things, but just a few things can help you navigate that time tremendously like with more ease. So with my first I did the breastfeeding class, learned all the things still felt like I have no idea what I'm doing you know, I my, like, upbringing and stuff, not like any fault or anything, but, you know, my mom didn't breastfeed us. And my sisters didn't breastfeed their children and they were all they had children but way before me, and so I hadn't witnessed it, right. I hadn't had a lot of friends. Doing it. It just wasn't like, I wasn't exposed to it. And so it all felt very new and very foreign to me. But I still kind of kept going forward and like surely I'll figure this out. I also had my Doula who was super supportive. I mean, she had had like, seven kids breastfed all of them just like super like, laid back about it. So just gave me this like, okay, it's gonna be fine. One of the best tips she gave me was to give it six weeks. She was like, you're gonna want to give up. This is going to be hard. It's going to be uncomfortable at times, you're gonna feel like you don't know what to do. She's like, just give it six weeks, six weeks, you don't want to do it anymore. Don't do it anymore. So that but give yourself that much time and most likely, you're gonna be able to like, get through this and want to keep going. And sure enough, I wanted to give up. That was very hard. You know, we didn't have any major issues, and I didn't have any tongue ties to navigate or lip ties or anything like that. You know, we struggled with some for Latch with some help got that sorted out. But that's six weeks and I was like, Oh, I don't ever want to stop like I thought it was great. And went on to nurse him for 23 months. I use the womanly art of breastfeeding. It's a book that I highly recommend as kind of like a I didn't read it all at once. It was something I like kept on my nightstand. And it was great because like at each state at each stage, because your baby's growing and changing so much, you're changing and recovering. Your milk is changing. And like there's just so much happening in kind of incremental stages that the book breaks down into, like the first few days, the first week, the first few weeks, the first couple months, you know, all the way through to yours. So I was I referenced it a lot. And so that was a huge help for me.

19:35

And went on then I had my son nursed him for 23 months. Stop nursing him when we were trying for our second because my period took forever to come back. And so there was some, some challenges there. And I thought breastfeeding was part of it. So we eased off of breastfeeding. And I was kind of done at that point. I was kind of feeling done and he seemed to be he was okay with it, too. It just worked out. And then, you know, another year and a half later, or two years later, three years later, almost it took forever to have our say, moral of the story. And I didn't do another breastfeeding class with him. I kind of felt confident. But yeah, went on to nurse him my second born son Marshall for 23 months as well. They were both right at 23 months and it was hard to stop with him because I was fairly certain we weren't having any more children. And so I kind of like wanted to hold on to it because I was like, Oh, this is you know, every time we would nurse I would wonder like is this the last time like I know it made me a little bit sad and also a little bit happy and so I kind of waited till both of us and just kind of eased out of it and then he still wanted to nurse and monks are gone and he did okay, no big deal. But it was hard for me to let go of that last last season with him because I knew I would probably wasn't gonna do it again and I I really grew to love it even though it was challenging at times. And then something unique about our journey with both of my boys is that neither of them took a bottle very

21:08

well like every day not to ask, like where did you pump at all?

21:12

Yeah, well, so I work from home. You know, I started I work from home. And then I'm also a doula. So I just have a lot of flexibility with my work and so I didn't have to be on a strict pumping schedule. So I didn't incorporate or introduced bottle pumping early on at all. So by the time I did, they just weren't into it. Either one of them and I tried even a little bit earlier with Marshall because ever had a hard time with the bottle and I was like oh, but it still didn't take to it so but we did so the reason I share that is because some people like oh, they won't take a bottle and that's like the end all be all but some other ways that we were able to get breast milk in to our baby into my babies without getting it directly from me was handshakes, expressing or pumping and then giving with a spoon or tiny syringe, or even as they get a little bit older, you could do a cup kind of want to spill proof cups. And so we did that, like if I had to be away you know my husband would give it in a syringe or sound bananas that it's not like, you know, you do little drips of it in their mouth and they kind of suck on it and they get it and it worked. It wasn't the easiest thing. I'm not gonna lie. You know, my husband found that to be pretty frustrating at times, but it was something we were able to do but I couldn't help it that they wouldn't take bottles. You know, we tried I mean, I had a whole box of all the different bottles, all the different bottles and same thing they didn't like packs either. I had a whole slew of patties that I had tried and so you know, there are options in there for doing the breast milk and I also I found the hand palm I was able to express way more milk with a hand pump than an electric pump. So I thought that was interesting. Having a hand pump for like 10 minutes versus an electric pump for 45 minutes and that could get I did the medulla hand pump. And I would take it everywhere with me if I needed it to remove milk especially when I was doing my Doula work. So

23:08

ah, see, that's okay. So that's interesting. You know, I had the hand pump, but I had it as like a has like an emergency, you know, but I know I never I never used it. So I never, you know, kind of experienced that and I will say too, I did connect with the lactation so with our pediatrician so one of I can't remember if one or both of them did end up having a tie. And it was one of those where it wasn't really impacting the nursing issue but our our our nursing but kind of just looking at like did you want to go ahead and take care of it now in case for you know, speech aspects of things later on. But our pediatrician had a wonderful lactation consultant because I remember I even had like Miss mastitis at one point and so clogged ducts and you know, things like that. And dealt with like you know, I had a forceful let down and so then it was you know, I did too haha I had a mom to have a forceful

24:07

lesson. Yeah, and that's how I'm and when we get into our tips. I kind of talked about that. But I did to like spray in their face. Oh, yeah.

24:15

I like like, yeah, it was like to get this out of me

24:20

when I have some tips for that for that. So no, yeah, forceful and down is real. I had that too. And I had clogged ducts and never had mastitis. Thank goodness.

24:29

Yeah, I just had a little bit of that fever that gets

24:33

inflamed and infected and causes like flu like symptoms and you definitely need some antibiotics to help that and some people are just more I feel like some people are prone to people or more people get it like multiple times. It's like decks Yep, terrible. It is no fun.

24:48

And I remember to a kind of hurt all into like that armpit area. You know, it's just kind of real estate. I was an achy, sore and those type of things. So yeah, that was only with Ethan the two. So

25:02

I had to navigate the clogged ducts I kind of learning some techniques for helping those pockets before they kind of got too inflamed but they'd be like Tinder kind of ruse like, but there's some some ways to help resolve that as Yeah,

25:16

yep, yep, yep. So let's go into our a little bit of our tips then. So let's see if that that's what's next. Yeah. Do you

25:25

want to hear first things was kind of what you just said about Yeah, lactation consultant,

25:30

connecting with a lactation consultant during pregnancy. So it doesn't necessarily connect with one during pregnancy either. I took that, you know, breastfeeding class when I was pregnant. So I do again, we talked about that. I recommend that as well too. But I tried to tell my moms you know, I give them the information. So at least they are established with someone or they know of someone so that they they don't have to like wait in that postpartum time here and be like, Oh my gosh, I need I need this. Now. I need help and feel kind of frantic with things

25:58

so 100% Do during pregnancy. Yeah, recommend that as well.

26:02

And then I had even been you know, again, take that breastfeeding class during pregnancy because that really helped a ton. I will say with my with the clogged ducts I would in the war and like in a shower and the warm shower I would always kind of massage and you massage like towards you know, armpit out like down towards the nipple obviously because that's like the direction the milk is flowing. And then I usually tell my mom like try to put the baby's chin towards the that clogged up, you know, so however you change the whole because that's where that like sucking power that's like really strong and so that cannot enter massaging while nursing. Yes are some of the ones because I have had several moms with clinics and I will say there's a local pelvic floor PT in our area. Dr. Brady Freeman. We're actually going to interview her soon. And she's got an ultrasound machine now and so she has actually helped some mom with some clogged ducts and doing I believe she said it was ultrasound. So something there as well too. So again, lactation consultants may have those tools as well.

27:13

And can I have one note about the massage is it's gentle massage, so you really don't want to go like deep tissue massage. You're just trying to help move kind of the kind of break up the duct like that milk and have it flow. That's why the warm helps, but if you overdo it, it could lead to inflammation and bruising that can cause more discomfort and so it's really gentle massage. That's what I know. But like, just adding to what you were saying.

27:44

Yeah, no, it doesn't need to be Yeah, aggressive. It's almost like you know, even with like a breast exam, it's not really like super, super hard pushes on on the breast tissue. So it's kind of that it's kind of that same thing. Yep. And I think the big thing is to continue to eat good and eat you know, eat well and drink enough water because it takes a lot of energy to produce the milk like it takes a lot of energy. And so you do have to make sure that you know you're feeding yourself a good diet and then water is like it's so key for successful nursing. Using a stool like kind of propping up the feet a bit is something that I go just that's even like protecting some of the posture. So again, we have a whole episode that will link here watching your posture why the nurse postures important lapses in that thoracic spine and can mimic some stress like symptoms for the body. So and then using I liked the Boppy a lot that like little semicircle pillow that kind of fits around just below the chest. I really love that and I would use pillows and like stackup pillows just depending upon like, you know, where I'm at the size of maybe as baby grows, you know, it's a little bit different. And understanding some different holes to use as well. I remember I didn't learn I didn't do sideline so where you're like laying in the bed you lay on your side with my first at all, but that was like my jam with Dylan. I was like what is your where it is at? Because I felt that protected my posture a lot instead of really that hunched over aspect of things or you know trying to sit upright this whole time and do it I was like sideline is like this is this is amazing. Now, yes, there's different postural things because you know, you're laying on your side so you might have your arm up or something like that but I just remembered that when a lot so I just and it's it come it came down to having that class beforehand and they're like, oh, I can do a football hold because that might be a little bit easier after you know C section and those types of things.

0:34

here as well too, so again lactation consultants may have those tools as well and can I have one note about the massage is it's gentle massage, so you really don't want to go like deep tissue massage. You're just trying to help move kind of the kind of break up the duct with that milk and have it flow. That's why the warmth helps, but if you overdo it, it could lead to inflammation and bruising, that can cause more discomfort and so it's really a gentle massage. That's when I know but like, just adding to what you were saying yeah, no, it would be Yeah, aggressive. It's almost like, you know, even with like a breast exam, it's not really like super, super hard pushes on on the breast tissue. So it's kind of that it's kind of that same thing. Yeah.

1:29

And I think the big thing is to continue to eat good and eat you know, eat well and drink enough water because it takes a lot of energy to produce the milk like it takes a lot of energy.

1:48

And so you do have to make sure that you know you're feeding yourself a good diet and then water is like is so key for successful nursing.

2:01

Using a stool like kind of propping up the feet a bit is something that I go just that's even like protecting some of the posture. So again, we have a whole episode that will link here watching your posture, why the nursing posture is important because it really collapses in that thoracic spine and can mimic some stress like symptoms for the body. So and then using I liked the Boppy a lot that like little semicircle pillar that kind of fits around just below the chest. I really love that and I would use pillows and like stack up pillows just depending upon like, you know, where I'm at size of baby as baby grows. You know, it's a little bit different.

2:42

And understanding some different folds to use as well. I remember I didn't learn I didn't do sideline so where you're like laying in the bed you lay on your side with my first at all, but that was like my jam with Dylan I was like what she learned is your Where is at because I felt that protected. My posture like instead of really that hunched over aspect of things or even trying to sit upright this whole time and do it I was like sideline is like this is this is amazing. I guess there's different postural things because you know, you're laying on your side so you might have your arm up or something like that but I just remember that one a lot. So I just and it's it comes it came down to having that class beforehand to know like, oh, I can do a football hold because that might be a little bit easier after you know C section and those type of things exactly. I football holds great for cesarean or even just I'm gonna roll little symbol that controlling passing their face and their latch a little bit easier with that football hold and that's where you're literally holding them like tucked under your arm and they're like well yeah we'll do the pose and everything. Yeah.

3:57

Even like laying back a little bit can be more comfortable. People are like what lay back and I could actually and that's something I share later about. That's kind of what that for sled down to.

4:08

So because I've got a mom in the office now working together with with a lactation consultant, and I love hearing what the consultant has talked to them about and like when I talk to the lactation students too, because then I can even offer I can think about okay, well this is how mom's posture has been. So what are some things that I could do to help mom with the adjustments and then that sort of thing as far as postpartum care but yeah, having that I know I think crazy forceful let down. So with that, so I I tell my moms that you can this can be really tough and I know it's not easy, especially if baby's like in a tizzy and hungry and you're like past, like a point where like you have to feed this child now. But if you can kind of see those hunger cues beforehand, yes. Then sometimes like maybe that hand expression, that hand pump, you know, collect that milk, that first little bit or like pump a little bit and then kind of get through that forceful lead down then they're not because I just remember even to be like, oh, like he was like, the guy can choke a little bit they can.

5:13

I feel like that's a very early nursing thing too, because then baby gets bigger. It regulates so no to that. That's not gonna you know, it's not gonna last forever. But but it is something to navigate. It is it is it is definitely something to navigate.

5:31

I tried to talk to moms as far as like, once we're done nursing, baby. Well, it depends on age, you know, early on babies like asleep, you know, because they that's all they do is they eat sleep it out. So there's not a lot of like awake and interaction time but as baby does get older, and after nursing, they might be like awake and up for a little bit and being active. And so that's a really good time I have with a ton my mom's like, hey, let's open up the chest. You do some exercises baby is watching you can you know do some tummy time and put toys on the right side and toys on the left side and work on that head control a baby on you while you're doing you know, like, I tried to not say you need to do these exercises at a different time like adding more to someone's schedule but it's something with what work you're already doing this. Then do some cat cows use the foam roller open up the chest we go over a lot of those in that nursing posture episode as well. So it's just that awareness of your body and Bobby will know or recognize like how that downline effect can be if you're hunched over. I mean, you're feeding your baby all the time like you're hunched over. posture, the legs the support, that's why the pillows bringing the baby up so you're not hunched over finding all these comfortable positions so that you can be comfortable like having your head your neck relaxed, have your face relaxed that like so you're not holding tension the whole time. Because that can just make you feel achy. And you know I was super stressed with after my first was like oh my gosh, am I gonna have enough milk for him for daycare because he was in daycare like super early like six weeks I wouldn't I mean and I've said before I went back to work after four weeks, so that was way way too early. So that was also stress does not your body isn't wanting to expend a lot of this extra energy for making milk you know? So stress can definitely impact I think not production, but then it's stressful in itself and when you're like okay, have I I only got three ounces in this booth today what's going on and what you know, like that would and I would measure that and so it was this constant like blah, like so stressful. And in daycare, give them a bottle I'm like okay, this is the emergency bottle don't use this bottle like this. It is I need this one and I would go through the freezer in our freezer was nothing but like it was. It is. It can be extremely stressful. And so I think it's so easy. To be like but don't stress about Oh no. Yeah, I'd say like I'm not saying that. But I noticed a huge difference between my first and my second and my second in that I was like, oh, you know, just knowing the natural progression of it. Some days I'd have more mid some days I wouldn't have as much. And when I alleviated that stress and that constant like the measurement of this and that, that aspect of it. Like I had more ease when I was more competent and like I'm going to produce what my what he needs, you know, and so that's why I would try to nurse as much at home when he was there. Yes. And you know, like it was that it was that delicate balance but and I know some moms like you they'll take a baby blanket with them to work for nursing or a picture of the baby you know, just to help stimulate that oxytocin and everything with nursing. And that's when I started to look at it as like, this is my time. Like, this is some me time right now. You know, like I would bring a book and I would read a book and I was still productive at work. I still got all of my stuff done. There were no issues. I wasn't stressed about that. And it was like, you know just give me this little bit of time. Three times a day to go. Yeah, they're friends. So mindset. Yeah, I mean, I just, it's tough. I know. I know. That's so tough. And so that kind of return to work. Nursing schedule can be a lot so and I would always come home I remember coming home to work and carrying my like my pump and everything and I would pull my little cooler out and be like this is how productive I was. And he was like, uh, you buy nothing else that would be the most productive thing I've worked and I created all the milk for a baby. I know. I was like, yeah, so I felt you know, real happy and proud of that. But just to touch on on that aspect of things too, in stress, but that's where that nursing posture. That's where I was going with this. Do that nursing posture, those hunched shoulders forward that can also the body thinks we are in a stressful position so that it mimics it kind of amplifies that stress. So I remember when I would pump I had to like little hands free like nursing things so that I could use my hands and read a book or whatnot. But I would sometimes, like lean forward so I would sit up straight but I would lean forward and I would even like massage with the palm of my hands.

10:32

And like the heel you know my hands are wet with my breast to try to squeeze all the milk out that I could today we get down to the end time I would do that as well. But I wouldn't be leaning forward to use gravity. But then I wasn't hunched over and the shoulders like I was leaning hinging from collapsing. So I would lead from the hips a little bit there. Yeah. And you should definitely listen to that. But the posture, why nursing posture so important? Because it's a little things to be aware of. It's not to feel overwhelmed with all the different things you need to remember.

11:02

But being aware is is really key.

11:07

And I do want to share something to for for birthing people who just had a baby who have been breastfeeding and then maybe they start incorporating pumping that they might some people measure like they say, Okay, I just pumped two ounces does that mean babies only getting two ounces? Because sometimes pumping does not. It doesn't equal exactly what?

11:30

Yeah, so especially when you're just introducing pumping IQ sounds like you probably didn't read them and you're probably getting a lot out. But somebody will get discouraged if they test pumping for the very first time like I got like one ounce out physical okay, just know that at the breast, your baby's probably getting more milk out. And then as long as they're paying and pooping and doing all the things and growing like that's it. Rest studies like people want to measure all the time how many ounces their baby's getting so they can be at ease to know hey, my baby got four ounces. I know they're good. When instead was with breastfeeding like they might get two ounces here and four ounces there and three ounces here again, pooping and peeing regularly growing all the things and trying to trust that your milk is perfectly made to give them what they need even if you're sick even if you're malnourished your your body will produce the milk that your baby needs. Obviously eating well and hydrating can help the process and overall help you feel better. But knowing that your body is designed to make them exposed to and then if it's not, you hopefully have a lactation consultant or supportive pediatrician or our obstetrician who can support you through challenges that you might face. So it's not to say everyone can do it, but say it's easy for everyone. Everyone has things that come up that make it harder, but hopefully these tips can help you and then having that supportive lactation somebody and people help kind of provide additional resources as your that's the thing. There's going to be things too that they'll mention there might be some herbs that you can do. There's certain medications I know mom have to take like sometimes with things so definitely that's why I think it's so important. We're just touching on like, you know, our experiences and like the common things that will we'll see with patients and clients but definitely recommend that lactation consultant because they've got that extra knowledge and training their expertise. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you want me to touch on chiropractic care for mom and baby? I would love that. Yes. Okay. So I do love I will say this a lot of times too. And you know, moms coming in, it can be so frustrating. It can feel like you are failing if like nursing isn't going well. But it's not all on mom, right? Like you know, it's like a it's a it's a joint effort. And it's this beautiful dance between, you know, mom and baby and kind of understanding that and so not said there's problems with your babies either, but it's just both are learning Yeah, both are part of this. So I do love to take care of moms postpartum as well. As adjusting babies. So if I'm getting a referral from the lactation consultant for nursing, you know, issues with baby, I do love to try to talk to mom because you know, it is a team effort here. And so if we're collapsing in that thoracic spine, then the nerves that are coming out there are going to heart lungs, but it's also going to like stress aspects of things. But then you also have to think the nerves that are coming up, they're giving all the motor and sensation to the chest. So not to say that like oh, just to you're going to increase your milk supply, but I have I have talked to moms to where they're like oh, I noticed nursing has gotten better after adjustments, so there's that aspect as far as caring for someone who just gave birth and who is nursing.

14:52

But with baby you know, we I did an interview with Dr. Martin rose and she's a pediatric chiropractor and cranial expert and so he talks so much about the beauty of infant chiropractic care and really looking at the cranial aspects of things because, you know, not every, not every baby is the same. So every nursing issue isn't the same even if they even if I have two babies that both have a left side of tongue tie it is entirely different for each of them. So same thing, as it always is with adults, right? It's the same thing. So it's very, it can be very different.

15:26

And labor and birth can be a very stressful and stressful process but also how they were in utero as far as where they breed where they transfer or where they you know, kind of stuck in that left hip or you know, all of those things can play a role as far as that spinal development and baby and where we maybe have restrictions in spinal motion and so looking at I usually am always asking Do they nurse the same on both on both breasts? Because if not, then we may be looking at some rotation issues, you know torticollis those types of things as well. So it's looking at looking at the full picture so yet doing some cranial work, looking at the jaw looking at the spine and making sure that we've got that proper nervous system function for baby as well and it's very gentle, you know, pediatric adjustments.

16:21

And the fun thing too, is it there's a huge connection obviously between baby nursing but also bowel and bladder movements. And so a lot of times if I'm seeing you're having issues with big and this is where I remember mentioning this to Dr. Martin resin when I did the interview is I'm also seeing babies that they potentially have gone nine days without a bowel movement because it's all connected. So I'm looking at that that's also other adjustments some aspects to look for for the infant. So again, don't care is the same for for everyone, but it can make a huge impact in that nursing journey and make or break you know, I've seen it save nursing journeys just by having the baby adjusted. So yeah, I love that and even in you know experience for your birth experience where there wasn't like quote unquote trauma, you said it could be how the baby was in utero, but even back into the birth canal having this is coming out the belly, like the body goes through a lot before the birthing person and the baby so like having that gentle chiropractic adjustment pretty soon after birth per baby especially is so amazing. I just want to emphasize the gentle nature of it too, because I think some people don't fully understand how gentle Yeah, no, just no say lady is Yeah, it's like it doesn't really like your heart isn't doing anything but you are and I can attest to it. I did it with both of mine and we recommend it. I mean, yeah, I just think just want to re emphasize that the gentle nature of it.

17:50

Yes, ma'am.

17:53

Okay, so let's go over what are some tips and things that you recommend? Well, everything you said of course, like I was looking at your seven I was like yes, of course. I'm don't want to duplicate anything. So I was just going to add to what you said. Everything you shares a lot of what we share with our clients as well.

18:16

And I said it earlier, but one of the biggest tips is to give it that six weeks of feeding training if you're breastfeeding or pumping or whatever you're doing just given that six weeks to kind of get over the hump or navigate any of those initial challenges that a lot of people face like it's almost always harder in those first few weeks and it is after words and that might help you get through that toughest part and maybe reach your goal if you want and then if not you're not that's fine, right? There's no There's no winner loser pass fail. It's just like, hey, set this I'm gonna give it a go because I know I've been told by people who know what they're doing that it's really really hard. For those first several weeks, and that it'll get easier in time. So we're trying to kind of paint that picture right.

19:00

And then also just reminding you that you are not alone in your struggles like this is not often talked about because I think people perceive it as like the most natural thing and it's should be easy and I should know what I'm doing and, and the reality is, is that it's hard. It's a learning, learning for both the birthing person and the baby like, yes, it's natural, but it's also hard. It's how you got your learning simultaneously after recovering from a major birth right.

19:35

So just again, it's how we view it. And if we think it's all sunshine and rainbows in then it's not. We feel like a failure. And so I'm here to tell you, it's not always easy. It's actually in fact much harder than most people think and that's why we're talking about it because with the education with the right support people on your team make candy a little bit easier to navigate not easy, breezy lemon squeezy for everybody. That's actually not the norm.

20:05

The one we feel like we have to be isolated and we can't talk about how hard it is or seek that help and it feels a lot harder and we're less likely to have success or you know, less likely to meet the goal we want or less likely to feed our baby the way we want for as long as we want.

20:18

And so support is huge. Having the right kind of support people around you like whether it be work for your provider or your partner or your family. Like you've got to have the right kind of people around you that support is one of the number one determining factors in success for breastfeeding. It's not your milk supply, and it's not you it's usually the support you'd have like if you have to return to work pretty soon like that's going to make it harder, right.

20:48

So the people around you having a good support team and just re emphasizing what you already said lactation consultants, chiropractor of course, also adding in person support groups now or I mean, I think most of us are back but you can also now get pretty good access to online support groups for infant feeding and breastfeeding. And there's nothing better than sitting in a room with a lot of people who are in similar situations, navigating this sharing stories giving advice you know, led by someone who knows what they're talking about. It can make you feel so much better. And so support groups. Also adding another type of therapies that cranial sacral therapy, which helps to normalize the baby's central nervous system and can be it's great in conjunction with the chiropractic care which is that similar right you're trying to normalize the nervous system so that it can respond and be be at ease and function the way it's supposed to. But infants with head trauma often have issues with poor spinal fluid circulation, and the manipulation and stimulation of the bones and tissue and the baby's head and lower back can gently or greatly improve the flow of the spinal fluid that can help them feel and function at their best. Right. And that's when Dr. Martin Rosen when we talked about it's kind of we're looking at really facilitating what the body's already trying to do. Right.

22:09

And it's not like moving one from point A to point B there. It's really looking at those, those gentle motions and what we can do to facilitate what the body is already trying to do. clearing the way.

22:26

Yeah, and there's been open to these kinds of therapies again, when you're struggling and you feel like you're I feel like you are failing at this but you're not. It's like knowing that there are types of therapies, even occupational therapy can be done. I mean, there's so many things that can be done to help and it's not saying everything has to be fixed, right for most it just needs a little bit of help but knowing that there are options and providers out there who can help you if you're struggling is really the goal. And I also just wanted to share a couple little troubleshooting tips that we see often with our clients. So there's kind of like low supply challenges. And then there's like oversupply, challenges, right. So low supply people, a lot more people think they have low supply than actually have true low supply. So true low supplies only occurs in about 5% of birthing people which is really pretty low. It's something I think a lot of people assume they have going on, but they maybe need center evaluate some other other things. Like checking for latch making sure it's a very deep latch in the throat and as much of the aerial as possible in the babies now.

23:36

A good latch is going to help reduce discomfort in the nipple but also help the baby be able to efficiently and effectively remove milk from the breast in evaluation for ties, so tiny tiny Lip and Cheek tie, some babies can function perfectly normally with ties and not have any problem removing that from the rest and some people, some babies don't. So again having that valuation and combining that with how is it are you doing like somebody when they can identify that there may be a tie, but they're removing them from the rest. So there's nothing to be done there in that instance, unless like you were talking about to like if there's potential downline benefits from going ahead and resolving those ties then again, aware of it make the choice Exactly. Information and I have some I have some moms that are like, You know what, she's got this type nursing was fine. And I'm really hesitant. I'm like, Well, you lean into that lean into the intuition. No one's telling you you have to do it right. You don't have to evaluate it but you're also doing lots of skin to skin so even like makeup time, bath time, shower time, lots of good dispute with the baby is going to help increase oxytocin and can help increase milk supply, offering the breast every two to three hours or pumping every two to three hours. And knowing that your milk takes three to five days to come in. So some people right away are like I'm not making enough milk. And that is not true. Well, I start just making colostrum in this for today, but just bear with me that all your baby's tummy is tiny and they only need about half a teaspoon of milk at each feeding. Half a teaspoon of milk at each feeding. And some people envision a bottle with a four ounce bottle for their new newborn and it's like no no your babies besides their tummy at the sides of a cherry in that first day. And of course it increases over time but knowing that you're the first milking makers colostrum and milk does not make you don't make a ton of that in those early days. But that serves a purpose the colostrum is very social, very important role and you nutrition and those early days and then you mature milk comes in three to five days after birth. And then that is when you feel a bit shit that's on the booster might fall. But before that, that lack of fulfilling makes people feel like they're not making enough milk also, and that's same vein is this okay? You have the you have the classroom this early days, you don't have to bring fulfilling and then the note comes in very, very fulfilling and then your milk regulates and you don't have that fulfilling anymore and people are like, Oh my gosh, I'm not making enough milk them right at your body regulates over time based on their needs. So the milk coming in the bottom of that 100% know how much it needs to make some it's a lot. And it's like, and then it regulates based on how much milk was taken out. So supply and demand. So knowing that those ebbs and flows of sensations in your breast are going to occur and what's normal so you don't fear that you're not getting enough milk for your baby. And again, back to what I said earlier, if the pump and I've only got an ounce out. In theory, you're not making enough milk for your baby. But in reality if your baby is peeing and pooping in the amounts that should and gaining weight, you're doing just fine. Like in the first couple of weeks when you realize your baby is gaining weight at the upcoming admission. It's like okay, let the measurement of how much milk you're making go away.

26:50

And just keep doing this other other things like lots of skin to skin, offering it every two three hours. The other important thing for keeping your supply up is nighttime feedings.

27:03

It's really important to keep nighttime feedings or pump sessions up in the middle of the night to protect your supply, especially for those first few weeks when you are establishing your supply. A lot of people that's the hardest time because you're tired and maybe you want the apartment to give a bottle or you know, you want to skip it or whatever but just know those those nighttime feedings are crucial to the supply. And then the opposite of low supply is oversupply or fast flat damage we did touch on earlier and that's that's just what it sounds like. Right the dead a lot of milk and it comes out really fast. And so what this why how this makes it hard is that the breast is usually really really firm. The milk is like spraying out and so it's hard for especially a newborn to swallow and I'm getting a lot of air or like not getting mad because it's like they're getting too much you know, it's like drinking from a fire hydrant versus you know, a straw.

28:00

And so, you can navigate this and you mentioned it earlier but pumping. I always kept a hand because I had over I had really fast let down fast let down versus oversupply can come handy.

28:17

And what can pop announcer so it's just the first little bit yeah, just to kind of soften it makes it easy to get latch. It just stops the force. It just it's like it's a really threw them out right.

28:33

So hang up a little bit and I never really aimed to keep that milk because I would like to set it. I left it around the house all day and just sort of used it to get the milk out. So obviously if you want to save every drop then you want to like put it in the fridge and make sure you store it properly but I found it easier and less stressful to say okay, whatever comes out of here I'm I'm not aiming to really keep I'm just aiming to have a good latch and not have to maybe get super fussy.

28:57

So I would do that also reclined feeding or sideline where you're kind of making the milk work against gravity. can really help with fast let down and it regulates usually within the first few weeks.

29:13

If you have oversupply or fast let down incorporating pumping as an effort to kind of store milk could increase your milk supply. So just be careful if your body's responding to any sort of pumping you're adding in addition to the feedings because that's going to increase your milk supply and if you have oversupply or fast letdown this could make it harder so you might want to hold off on adding those pumping sessions in until a few weeks until things regulate a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So the last tip is a wonderful podcast I have to share. It's called the badass breastfeeding podcast. There is not an episode I have not listened to that. I'm not like nodding and thinking. Yes, it's a it's a woman who's faced a lot of challenges with breastfeeding and it's just a wealth of knowledge and has built an incredible community around breastfeeding combined with the ibclc person and they talk like thirds a duo and they have conversations and they share evidence and research but also real life stuff and people's stories and navigating challenge it's awesome. I love it. So yay. Link that in our notes. Yes, definitely. Um, so the goal for today wasn't this like all encompassing. Like these are all the nursing tips because I'm not a lactation consultant. ibclc certified, you know, Rachel so it's, it's, it's just more of just wanted to share our journey and like the common things that we're seeing with our patients and our clients in an effort to just again provide that knowledge so as always we suggest checking out the show notes.