Ep 36 Tips for the Fourth Trimester

In this episode, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael share a conversation about helpful ways to prepare for and navigate through the fourth trimester with more ease and confidence. The fourth trimester is the 12 weeks after you give birth. 

The fourth trimester is a sacred time full of many ups, downs, beautiful and hard moments, time spent getting to know your new baby, time spent getting to know your new self, along with moments of stress and exhaustion, joy and love, physical and emotional recovery, hormone adjustments, and relationship adjustments.  So many things occur in the fourth trimester. Oftentimes, you can feel both extreme joy and sadness within the same day. This ability to hold multiple feelings and emotions at once is part of a healthy fourth trimester.  

• What is the fourth trimester?
• Why is it important to consider?
• Things to consider when planning for the postpartum.
• Chiropractic care for your newborn to help their body adjust to the stressors of birth.
• Building your post-birth support team.
• And lots of helpful resources!

Resources:

First 40 Days (book)
The Postnatal Depletion Cure
North Atlanta Birth Services: Postpartum Planning Call
Postpartum Support International
ICPA4Kids

Prior Aligned Birth Episodes:

Ep 7: Building Your Village for the Postpartum

Transcript

0:00

Hello, welcome to the aligned birth podcast. Dr. Shaman here doula Rachel's with me today. And today we're talking about the fourth trimester. I love this. I'm so excited to talk about this. So excited talking about postpartum health, postpartum everything. Because the fourth trimester that postpartum time period is so important. I'm gonna talk about the elephant in the room right now because yes, I do sound a little raspy. I have lost my voice, but I am in good health and good spirits. So I'm here and I just can't wait to keep talking through all of the hoarseness because we've got important things to say. And so, today's episode, like I said, fourth trimester, we're going to define what is the fourth trimester? Why are we defining it? Why is it important? I've got an amazing definition of why it's so important and why we're talking about it. And then we have the most amazing resource list of like things to begin to consider during pregnancy to really impact that postpartum time period, right? Because we're all about planning and preparing and making informed decisions. And we can do that during the pregnancy to help make that postpartum journey so smooth. And so that is our goal for today. So we've got lots of wonderful resources, and I'm really excited to have this conversation with doula Rachel today.

1:25

Hi, Dr. Shannon, I am so excited for this conversation as well as I am all of our conversations just to be perfectly clear, I don't think I've had one conversation with you that I haven't enjoyed, but I think the fourth trimester is a grossly under discussed conversation and part of the birthing person's birthing year, right. I mean, we talked a lot about pregnancy, but what doesn't get talked about is the 12 weeks after you give birth, which is the fourth trimester and I like calling it the fourth trimester. It's not my term. I just like referring to it as the fourth trimester because it's like the baby's born but we're just not done yet. So if we call it if we don't call it the fourth trimester, I feel like it's easily forgotten that it's that it's not part of the full birthing year. Does that make sense? What do you think about the term fourth trimester?

2:20

i Sorry, I was having to write down what you're saying because it was like it was spot on what I think I love fourth trimester as well. And when I saw that term I gravitated toward I used to teach a class at byebye baby so it's a little it's a, I don't know. It's a baby store. And the alienator Actually, I don't even know if it's around anymore, but I would set up shop in there and have like my spine and I would talk about chiropractic care and I would go over fourth trimester as moms were coming in and looking at like nursing chairs would sit and be like, hey, so you want to talk about your spine quick? Because it's so important. And it's I love what you said, I wrote down like the baby's born, but we're not we're not done yet. Like there's so much more to it. There's just a lot. There's a lot to it. And I've always said you know and as I grow on my postpartum journey, I'm like I'm forever postpartum. Like I'm totally fine with that because I feel like I'm rocking postpartum because it's just amazing. And so yes, that it's defined as that you know, those 12 weeks after birth or that birth to birth to six weeks is kind of, I feel more of like that medical look at it, but I do love the that whole like giving it that whole trimester aspect too. Yeah, yeah. So that that that's why we're talking about this. Yeah,

3:47

it is so that we can bring the spotlight on this time. Because like you said, sometimes it is more medicalized or simplified as Okay, baby's here. Great. Whoo, all the focus on the baby instead of focusing on mom and baby together. So, you know, like we like to do in all of our conversation is to sort of give a little bit of information, a couple of nuggets in there that hopefully you can take away and view maybe have a slightly new perspective on this time period so that you can feel as good as possible during this time, feel as empowered as possible during this time, feel as supported as possible, you know, and have permission to go slow and give yourself grace and, you know, know that no matter how much preparation you do, or shall I say, even with a lot of preparation, the postpartum still will feel like a big shock. It'll still feel like you're you don't know when you'll feel like yourself again, or Oh, yeah, so many, like so many big things happen in the fourth trimester. That I think I like to say that you'll still feel rocked, you'll still feel pretty maybe even surprised by how significant the fourth trimester is, whether it be exhaustion or breastfeeding struggles or family stress or just dying to get back to some sort of normalcy or routine or there's just so many things that happen and you might feel all those things. It's just if we got there's a lot I know and you

5:29

know, the World Health Organization says that it is the most critical and like neglected period, in this like maternal truth and it is the truth that is true. You know, you have your baby, you're sent home and then you know, maybe you have your six weeks checkup I don't know and and then you're given the green light for I don't know what to like. You're like now released into society to function again. I don't know the green flag.

5:56

I cringe at the six week like yeah, oh, you're like, you're Yeah, you

6:01

can feel like you're drowning a bit.

6:02

So yeah, that's why I think there's a big misconception around that six week chunk as far as like, whether it be exercise or sex or clearance from your doctor is just like this broad stroke of like, you're good. And I think a lot of people would be like, but I'm not. And that doesn't have to mean like, you're not like, you know, you're struggling severely with mental stuff. It's not always that it's so many other things. It could be pelvic floor, it could be breastfeeding. I mean, we were going to go into all the like things that that might arise but I like to just reframe and say okay, that is one checkpoint, but there can be many other checkpoints you can set up for yourself, for that fourth trimester so that you can feel like all areas of you and your baby emotional, physical, mental are being supported and cared for.

6:54

Yes, yeah. I mean, and that's what we're hoping to provide like some of these little like, okay, yeah, check off off there, you know, to kind of try to combat some of that overwhelm

7:08

the expectation that is painted and I don't know if I don't know if it comes from media, or now how social media is or if it's always been this way, but just this expectation that once baby's here that you should have it all together, and that you should do it a certain way or feel a certain way at a certain time. It's just like, I want people to give themselves permission to look different than what they see on Instagram or look different than what they see other people doing in the movies or on TV, even friends or whatever. Like it's gonna look different for each person and we talked about how birth and pregnancy is unique for each person. So as the postpartum period, what stresses you might not fit someone else and what's easy for you might not be easy for someone else. So just drop the comparison stuff and just give your space. Give yourself space to to let it be what it needs to be and to feel it all and to try to be patient and go with the flow. And I don't know that's easier said than done. I'm just

8:11

I know and like I, that's where I kind of want to start with our list is jumping, because so we have our outline, because we usually do, we're trying to stick to it. We're all over the place with this one. But we've said the same thing. So we compare we eat, we share our outline with each other and say, Hey, this is what we want to talk about. And I think it's kind of fun how we put it in different words, but we're kind of saying the same thing. Yeah, what do you have in here? Even like talking about like slowing down, giving time and patience, and then letting go and surrendering? Like and I know you probably have different things do you mitten that and I see different things too. But I think that's the first that's where I want to start because I specifically remember crying in the bathroom while my husband went back to work when my baby was upstairs. Crying. Because like, I don't know how to care for this thing. Like and that kind of, you know, I don't know, like reconnect with that breath. So like, it's okay. To it's okay to not know, right? Like it's okay. If it's, you know, first time third, fourth, I don't know every baby's different. So it's kind of like that being graceful with yourself. And knowing that you are now on this learning journey and with your baby, you know, like it's together you're going through this and trying to figure these things out. And so maybe changing that that framework in that mental space that you're looking at it with, but slowing down is a huge thing, I think to do

9:51

at the BIA. I think a lot of people will just say they're gonna hop back, get back into their whatever schedule they had before and I always encourage and late pregnancy to begin slowing down to prepare for the birth and the same thing continues for after the birth if possible, and where possible to let go of some of the things in the schedule. To not try and have a rigorous to do list or rigorous schedule and I think because I am a type A person I was very eager to get back to quote unquote normal. I craved routine I craved everything that I had before. And it wasn't there. Wasn't it accessible, it wasn't attainable, and that created resistance. And but then in time, like really right for me right around the end of the fourth trimester I started feeling quote unquote, more normal. And so I just wish someone had said that 12 weeks is gonna go by in a flash. So in that 12 weeks can you go slow Can you be more intentional? What can you take out of the schedule? Can you just try to embrace the unknown try to embrace the the easy days try to embrace the chaotic days. And I don't say that that's like, oh, just give it a silver lining. And it'll be easy. It's just knowing that it's a very finite time. It does usually in for most obviously this is not going into full like any sort of postpartum depression or anything like that. I'm just saying for the typical postpartum without struggling, that the fog does lift and that the more you can slow down, the more you can be patient with yourself. The more grace you can give for the for not knowing everything for the feelings you have for the emotions, the ups the downs, just in that amount of time and then knowing it can even extend beyond that 12 months it can go I mean postpartum before full year, like how the things you feel. So it's just like, embracing that, you know, there's really no return to the prior and that that can feel scary and that can feel anxious, but that the sooner you can embrace it and see it as a gift, then I think the easier the postpartum can feel.

12:09

Yeah, and I think one thing I gathered from what you just said to was kind of an underlying thing. There's maybe like, what can you say no to? Because, you know, family may want to come visit people here. What do you do? Maybe during the holidays, I had one like right before Christmas. And I remember at one point, just being like,

12:33

I gotta get out of here. I gotta get out of here. I was just like, oh my god, I just want to like bro in the bed and cuddle with my baby. I

12:39

just want to get out of here. So yeah, um, and when you say no, it's a complete sentence. You don't need an explanation or anything like that. I mean, people should know Okay, we just had a baby so you can say no, you know, yeah, just that can help you be graceful with yourself and to go slow and to do the things that are

13:00

important. And I feel like the stress exists when we're when we're trying to keep those commitments that the family has put expectation on us saying, well, so and so's family is getting together bring the baby everybody wants to see the baby. You know get out of the house calm and you know, they put that pressure on you that expectation on you and you feel that that pull to show up and and you know, do what everyone else wants you to do instead of what you really want to do. Like you said you were at the family event and every you know, all you wanted to do was go home and snow there maybe that's a calling. That's an intuition that the tug, the more we can listen to that and know that wow, aunt, Billy, or and Billy and Billy. really have a name, whoever I don't know. And Lola, whoever I'm trying to think of a name I'm not so good. is like, you know, putting the pressure on that they might be have their feelings hurt for a minute, but you're the one that has to live with the percussions of your postpartum forever. So, exactly. If they're getting upset that's on them. That's fine and to let that go. And I think the pre planning and the pregnancy where you're where you're setting those healthy boundaries and saying, Hey, I know there's a family gathering at this point after my baby's gonna be born like I don't think I'm going to be doing many visits. During that time. I'm going to try and stay home and and nourish myself and my baby set those boundaries kind of ahead of time. Can maybe ward off some of those, those pressures that might come from family I mean, the things I hear from my clients that are the most stressful is when they feel like they have obligations to other family after their babies here. They're like, should I go Should I take my baby I'm like, Well, do you feel like you want to go does that and they're usually like, No, I'm okay. You can stay home that's your you know, you should stay home and do what you feel like feels right to you and they'll get over it. Yeah, that's true. So that's something that wasn't even on my outline as far as like setting healthy boundaries with God. Guests. And that is such an important one. Now that you brought that up. That's such an important part of the fourth trimester. Especially during the fourth trimester to set those healthy boundaries for you and your visitors.

15:03

Yeah, and if you haven't done that before, you've been wanting to postpartum is a great time because you just be like, You know what, baby? It's all bad. Exactly. Hormones, baby ain't seen anybody.

15:12

Yeah, yeah, and I think yeah, and there's time to be social later. Like, I think we will feel like if I don't go now then what it's like, well, you can go in four months or five months or whenever you feel like you want to do

15:25

now you also have asking for help on here. So what about you can flip it to because if people want to come see the baby, well, maybe you say hey, you know what? I could really use this cleaned in house. So you can even say you know, ask for those things that you need. It's not weakness. It's not I don't know at least I'm also Taipei so I have a hard time with that because I got this only know for sure. I'm you know that way. So it's very hard but I remember when my mom came and cleaned out my fridge and I was like, That's amazing, right? I was just hold the baby. How's nurse? Everything's fine. Just clean out the fridge and it was the most like soothing sound this thing ever. Now I did tell a patient about that. She's like, Oh, I got it. My mom cleaned my fridge I'd freak out. So right is that

16:12

right? But there is something that you really enjoy having done whether it be your floor, swept your laundry, folded your dog walk,

16:19

like bring me a meal? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Okay, asking that and then maybe it makes that visit that exchange something different. For sure. And an obligation you

16:32

leave that you leave that visit or you are at home but they leave and you feel more energized by that visit, then drained and stress like you don't need to be getting ready for your visitors. Like getting all you don't stress don't need to clean the house don't need to pick up the floor. You don't need to shower unless you want to like you know, try and just take all that expectation and all that like that theatrics or whatever it is when you sort of like present for other people who are coming into your home. Like that's how I like to host if someone wants to enter my house for the first time I'm usually making sure all those things are done but with my so that's how I wasn't my first postpartum. We had family in town right after the baby was born and they were all about wanting to come visit. They were from out of town and you know, not on them but on me. I it stressed me out because I was trying to, to host to to and recover postpartum and breastfeed my baby and you know look presentable and who am I golly, night and day difference compared to the second one when I was like, please no income for the first two weeks and anyone who did come who like live nearby, like drop food off or helped with chores or my dog or my other son. And I set that boundary before the birth and it was much much easier after the birth and help protect my space helped me go slow. I had to do that front loading or wouldn't have happened and I had to have that first experience as a type A person to try and be the person doing it all and trying to be a perfectly I got back I'm recovered like you know 10 days postpartum. And to to know that that was not what I needed to that I could have a different second postpartum. So for many people, they have to walk it and learn what works for them. But hopefully when they hear some of the things we say if they can even implement one or two of them and have a better postpartum then that's a win and then if they go on to have more babies then I think they learn you learn the most from your usually firsthand from your own experiences.

18:35

Yes, definitely. And I just briefly on my postpartum is I went back to work way too soon after my first. So I went back at four weeks, and that was way too soon. And so second time around, I was like, oh, yeah, we're taking everything. Give me Yeah, everything I'm gonna take it

18:56

cuz you know, you had you wouldn't have known really until you had that first experience of having such a short postpartum. What that Val I needed to know you had to work real real hard in the pregnancy, you know, front loading to ensure you had the right amount of time off and organization and budgeting or whatever you had to do like you took that seriously. And so that's what we're trying to do is help you avoid any sort of hard first postpartum and and what we say help you have that really satisfying first postpartum, so that you don't have to have any sort of negative you know, because it matters, it matters because it doesn't just end up the birth right. Like we're still like you are now you've been born to as a new mom, as a new woman. This is a rebirth for you as well. And so there is a lot of adjusting and growth and discomfort that happens during that time. And it looks different for everyone. But it matters because when we can have just like when we have an empowering, satisfying safe and healthy birth when we have a similar experience for our postpartum Wow, does that like crack you wide open for like potential for, you know, positive parenting and, and confident, you know, feeling and trust in yourself and, you know, it's just this downline ripple effect that is endless. When you can have a positive, satisfying, nourishing, grounded, I don't know some other words to describe postpartum you know, and yeah. And I think we'll be willing to say, Okay, I have to go I have to go back to work at eight weeks or I don't have a support network who lives near me or I don't have a partner or like any number of things that you might hear us talking and be like, that's unattainable for me. I don't want to paint a picture that oh, this is like possible for everyone. I just want to say there are pieces in here that you can grab onto and say, Okay, I can make that work. I'm going to try that. You know, and it may not be all the things and I think that's really important to drive home because sometimes we were teaching a class at the HANA and I my kotula partner, we teach a class at the Hope Center and what stock it's a birth class and, you know, we're used to talking to partners, whether married or not, there's almost always a partner there and there was one there who didn't have a partner and that was like, not even in the cards. And I recognize a lot of what we were saying is she was like, that doesn't work for me. That doesn't work for me. You keep talking about the partner, like, and she wasn't talking to me like this. I could just see I could tell and I was like, Yeah, I was trying to catch myself and recognize that we use the term partner a lot, like ask your partner for help talk to your partner about this. And that may not be available for everyone. And so that doesn't mean everything's out the window or that it that just means you got to do some work in a different way. And you got to say, Okay, I don't have that component, but what do I have? What do I have Yeah, where where? Yeah, and make the make the most of it. Not everyone takes 14 weeks or you know, you might only have eight but let's make the most of those eight. Let's prepare really strongly for once you do go back to work and, you know, again, I think I'm probably beaten. Whatever. Is it being a dead horse I don't like that race.

22:12

I know. I think it's dead horse. But

22:17

as long as I said about beating a drum, I'm messing up all my life around the bush, you just go. I want I want. I think I'm being repetitive. I know. But yeah, sometimes when we say things

0:01

I don't know, we're in a society now where you have to say something like 25 times to kind of get through to people. Yeah. So, Eddie, that's why we say this every time because yeah, one way we say it's like, oh, Dean, lightbulb

0:12

went off. Yeah. So,

0:15

yeah, well, we beat a dead horse.

0:19

I'll try and come up with a different term.

0:21

Something different, but yeah. Well, so I wanted to start with that. We're gonna go into community and support and asking for help in different aspects with more of the birth professionals. Well, I want to do that later. So and we're going to talk about those things later. So don't just you know, save that for a minute, because I want to do other ways that you can the word nourish is coming to me. We just did. Well, when we're recording this, we had just done a vision board event. And one of the girls that came to the vision board nourish is her word of the year. And I love that word. And it keeps coming to me in this postpartum talk that we're having because that it's like it's nourish. I just you've got to nourish yourself to nourish to flourish. I love that. But so one way one thing to think about and nourishing is I go back to diet, and what you're eating, drinking and consuming and when I used to teach that class at byebye, baby, this was one of my I guess, like pillars had some like pillars of postpartum I guess, and you had this on your list to Rachel, but it's I know you want the comfort food too, right? I get it like everything's been traumatic. I want I want the comfort food too. But it's finding that balance there and saying and feeling so good when you nourish yourself. And so I always talked about making sure we're getting like taking those prenatals getting enough of the omegas and the fats, the DHA CPAs because that's so important for baby's brain growth, obviously in utero, but also in this newborn period. And then really trying to hone in on some of those anti inflammatory things. Those were the two things I tried to drive them. I didn't want to get overwhelming. You know, this isn't the time to be doing your keto paleo diet. We're not doing it to lose weight. Right. We're doing it to nourish ourselves. And so what are those nourishing things you can do? And if you know someone postpartum, what are some nourishing things that you can bring them? You know, I mean, I know we all love to color, but it's like, give yourself that grace to have that and give yourself some nourishment and enough water to support that postpartum journey as well, too.

2:40

Yeah, when I think about nourishing versus like, satisfying, there's like, you know, we all like the or that's kind what you're saying like we like kind of the comfort food or the junk food or whatever. And so for me, it's like I love a brownie. Like I love a warm brownie with like a scoop ice cream that's like give it to me all the time. And that's like satisfying comfort food. But nourishing is when I have a bowl of homemade soup and I'm sipping the broth at the end, and I feel it nourishing my body. I don't feel the same way when I eat the brownie and the ice cream though. It's delicious. And it satisfies another thing. So I'm not saying Yeah, well, I'm with you don't deprive yourself of that. Especially during the, the, you know, 12 weeks post partum fourth trimester, but think about what nourishes you and makes you feel good. After you eat it and not just feel good about guilt or no guilt. Like what is like, you know, how does your tummy Yeah, where do you get energy from but yeah, like sipping I think soup is one of the best nourishing postpartum foods you can make or bring someone that's what I love to take my friends or clients after they've had a baby or when they're sick, because you could just get so many nutrients from it. So nourishing is also a feeling kind of pouring into yourself in a different way than just like diet. You know, it's not just caloric or sugars or carbs, it's, it's what's your body been depleted of after giving birth and what does it need to heal and recover? I mean, your body is healing. Sometimes. If you've if you get an A, if you've had birth given birth vaginally, you can't see the wound that's healing whereas when you've had a cesarean birth you have an external wound that is healing and that's evident and you feel it and recovery is very different. But vaginal birth sometimes people feel better, a lot sooner or they can get up and going around, but your body's still healing from a major wound on the inside. So I always like to kind of paint this picture for people so they can remember that their body's healing. So that they can take care of themselves in ways that facilitates healing, but your uterus grows very large to hold the baby during pregnancy. And inside of it is the placenta where the baby is held and where the baby is getting all of its nutrients from and that placenta, you know is attached to the uterus and at the end of pregnancy and there's a plate size like section of the placenta that is attached to the uterus and when it detaches, and you give birth to the baby and then the placenta after the after the baby's born. It leaves a wound the size of a plate on the inside. Of your uterus. So not only is your uterus going from the size of like a watermelon down to like a pear, which takes a lot of time and effort and energy, but the wound itself is healing and that's the bleeding you experience postpartum is that wounds shrinking along with the uterus, but that's a significant healing that has to happen and that requires rest. Hydration, like you have said good nutritious food and and taking it easy, right? There's an element of like, of course you want to be up and moving. That's good too, but rest I mean, some people say like, stay in the bed for the first like really rest rest for that first full week and then staying like near the bed for the next week and then staying still at home that following week. But like, you know, really taking it easy for those first few weeks after the birth.

6:18

That's so true. Because that's that rest. That's going to be when we heal, you know, because if you're still in that mode of trying to entertain and have people over and get back to normalcy, and those types of things, you're kind of in that stress zone, that fight or flight zone and so you're running from a bear and if we're running from a bear, we're not going to grow and regenerate new cells, you know, you're not going to grow back like I always that's such a

6:49

good example of if you're in that like in that mode your body is not healing so you're gonna eventually heal because the body is amazing, but it's gonna take longer. That was me after my first is my postpartum felt like it took twice as long when I say that, like I just, it just took me a long time to feel like I was fully recovered whereas the second one where like, husband was on board family was on board and I was on board for truly wrestling I felt much better, much sooner.

7:22

That I think it's those expectations of healing. Like because when you we were talking just now I couldn't help but think that when I went back and thinking of that first postpartum journey, I just expected it. I expect it to be like what you see and not reality. Do you know what I mean? Like I expected it to be a lot smoother than it was and it was that like, up and down. I expected to be running sooner. I expected to be back to work. You know, I expected all these different things. And I don't know I think we need to be realistic about this. It's okay to have that hope of like, Oh, I hope things go this way. But it's like, let's be realistic in those expectations that it's going to take a while to heal. And, you know, a Facebook memory had popped up a while back. And I didn't remember this until just now but I went for a run after some of the real like better and with my second he was my VBAC, baby I went for a run after him. And I remember writing something and said that I spiked a fever. So my body was literally telling me this is too soon. Is too soon. You don't need to be doing this to I think it was like six weeks. That's the mark where you're like, hey, you should be doing these things now. No, no, no. My healing timeline was a little bit different. Yeah. So yeah, listen to your body. Yeah, listening to your body and being in tune with that and knowing those things. I have a story to share about a mom. I want to do it now because it fits now. But it goes into it's like a segue into like, you know, looking at that community support those people that can support you in that healing, but she I do nervous system scans in the office. So it gives us a good snapshot of what's going on with the autonomic part of the nervous system the rest and digest and then the motor part of the nervous system, all the musculature of the body. And I do those at re exams after the baby for my new moms. And her exam, she felt fine. She felt like I'm feeling good. I'm getting back to movement. I don't remember how early it was and postpartum is probably like a couple weeks. And then we looked at our scan. And I was like, we need to slow down. We still need to slow down because I could see you could see and that nervous system you could see in that autonomic part, the part that's really controlling that the healing and the blood vessel gland organ function, that internal stuff that internal healing, the body is healing from the inside that you can't see. It was still healing. So not only is your uterus healing there's a nervous system. His feeling was like a big shock to it. And so it was, you know, telling her like, hey, we still need to slow down. And so she was able to like, okay, I get that now because I was feeling a little bit exhausted. I feel good, but you know, a couple weeks after that, I'm feeling exhausted. Let's come in for some postpartum care with take it a little bit easier, you know?

10:36

For sure. Yeah. And sometimes it just takes that evaluation and that second set of eyes or you know, some another provider like yourself to bring shed that light on the what's happening on the inside of their body that they're not getting from other providers, right in that kind of way. So that's really important to always kind of and we'll talk about sort of that group of people, including yourself and chiropractors who can help provide that kind of support. That's more thorough than you might get from just your like OB or your Oh, just one source. Just one source. Yeah. It's like surrounding

11:12

yourself with that. Now. We both had on our list, which is kind of funny because we literally just said, rest and don't move and then I wrote exercise and you wrote movement. So what do we mean by that's different, right? It's like intention. The exercise isn't necessary. It's that movement. It's that return to movement, but I'm not talking like returning to like race ready or competition ready or like you know, weightlifting and that type of thing. It's finding that rhythm and where you are in this new body because you're forever change you forever have the cells of your child in you and so it's finding that new movement and maybe that movement is your of your diaphragm with your breath. I think that's a beautiful place to start Yeah,

12:02

so because move my Alec I like and we're just talking like kind of semantics here. But I like the word movement over exercise. For the fourth trimester for that reason is that movement is is could be breath work. It could be a walk outside, it could be gentle stretching, so many other ways to look at movement versus return to exercise right away. And I think we're trying to exercise takes a different set of preparation and we have a new did a whole episode on that which will link in the notes but like, that's different. Like getting to that point is different than like really immediately after the birth. Thinking about how you're moving your body, how you're breathing, what feels good versus what you think you should do. And it is not about how you look or weight or anything like that. It's about moving in a way that feels good to us so that your body can be restored because with certain movements, our body is restored versus depleted. And that's the kind of movement I think we want to focus on for the fourth trimester,

13:05

and you'll get that release of endorphins and so that's why I liked that movement, too, is that you get those endorphins you get and that can help with any postpartum mental health issues that you may have going on, which we're going to touch on that in a minute too. So it's, that's why I think that's good too. So when you eat good and you're nourishing your body and you're resting and then you're connecting with your breath and your movement. It's like this beautiful trifecta of healing and growth.

13:36

Yes, and I've also to with that when we say rest, so we're painting this like beautiful, easy postpartum, right? But knowing that like some days some of these things will be easily attained, and then some days they will not and that's a flow. It is like I remember finding that in the postpartum of like, feeling like woohoo, I'm like in the direction of recovery, and then the next day would feel different to snack. Yeah, you're like, Well, what's going on? So just like, okay, like knowing that it's an ebb and a flow. And kind of a one step forward, two steps back sometimes and then maybe five steps forward and a couple steps back or something like that. It's an ebb and a flow. But so when we say do all these things and then incorporate rest, people might look at you like you are, you know, losing your mind because rest with a newborn. Like how

14:26

my spouse's back at work, I have to do laundry. I don't have support over here. Yeah. Am I supposed to rest but what is rest? Define?

14:33

Yeah, well, unrest is yeah, not always sleeping. It's not always sleeping eight hours in a stretch but putting a plan in place that can help facilitate, you know, four to five hours of sleep at a time is something to aim for. And in the course of the day, if you can get you know, eight or 10 hours of sleep, your body can recover more efficiently. And so, for some, you know what, you just got to figure out what your situation is, what your circumstances are, how you can find that sleep and make it you know, and just prioritize it. I think it's like a job. It is like taking care of your baby is part of that is you taking care of yourself and making sure your sleep sleep is like one of the number one factors for overall wellness. And so, you know, we're going with what you got not beating yourself up if you miss it on a day but trying to prioritize it and then bringing in you know, help where you can wherever you can. And the phrase sleep when the baby sleeps kind of is like cringe worthy, but also kind of like, if you can like that would be great, but I understand everyone's like, that's not possible. I know people told it to me and I found it hard to achieve. So I don't like to say it as like the fix, but it is something to try.

16:00

I'm not a Napper. Like my husband nap like nobody's business and I will lead and I'll be tired, but I'll lay there. So like that whole superbaby season like, I just I just can't have I bet Taipei I think my brain is always going so that was difficult. But I think I sometimes wish we would like stop with the like, Oh, look at that mom. She's working and going here and doing this and doing she just had her baby and she just had a baby. Look at how good she is. Yeah, I wish he would sometimes be like, Hey, look at that mom. She laid in bed all day and yeah, me. We honor that too. Because look at them. Um, she said, Hell no, I'm not doing that. You know, like Yeah, said no to these things. Yeah, reason. Yes. Doesn't mean I'm gonna say no forever. I will get to that point. That's okay. But it's I don't know. I just sometimes I feel

16:48

like yeah, we glorify, glorify and reward busy and and bouncing back and doing it all and that exists for the rest of parenthood and motherhood. And I do kudos to the people who do I mean really to be able to balance and do a lot of things and overcome hard things. I but I do wish the script was flipped on postpartum and that when we saw people out, we didn't praise them. We would say, you know, encourage, or say how can I help? You know, I don't think shame on either direction, right? We don't want to shame anyone for being out and about when we think they should be home or being home and they should think they should be out but just, you know, trying to

0:00

support them in a way that facilitates the kind of recovery that is necessary for the major event of birth, cesarean or vaginal? I wish if you're listening to this and like not pregnant like this is for you to like how you support people, pregnancy, birth and postpartum matters. And instead of asking, you know, what can I buy the baby you can ask, How can I support you? What do you need right now and that might change week to week. So checking in with them and, and and then from the receiving end of it. This is kind of getting into asking for help and you touched on it a little bit earlier. Like if they come over and want to visit with the baby also asking like for some help with chores around the house. No part of this is getting okay with asking for help during this time. Or if someone does ask how they can help. How can I support you being okay with saying I could really use dinner for Tuesday night or breakfast for Wednesday morning or I could really use some help with my dog or you know, wherever it is for that person and you feel like it's appropriate you know, not everyone's gonna come over and do your laundry and you're not gonna want everyone to come over and do your laundry but are there other things you can ask for help when people are are offering because I think people want to help. They just don't know how so we can retrain by by this conversation and by people in the postpartum partners in the postpartum also participating in this conversation. And of like, yes, we need help. If you could come you know, X y&z things with we love to see but we also this is what we need most right now. And we'll be up for you know, more like visit social visits in a few months.

1:40

Yeah, no, that's true. And it's setting those healthy boundaries again. We can celebrate the moms that stay home and take it a little bit easier at the beginning and we can also celebrate the moms that feel that drive to get back to other certain things like that one, they don't have to exclude each other. You know, like we can we can celebrate?

2:02

Yeah, right of all. Yes. And there's no. Right where Yeah.

2:07

And it's just kind of being truthful with yourself in that aspect of things. Um, so we're talking about asking for help, and we're talking about like communication and support. And there are some people we've talked about this in earlier episodes two, and that like building your birth support team. You can use that birth support team as your Postpartum Support team as well too. And so that can be your partner doula family, friends, the providers so like Yes. Chiropractor? midwife. Your doctor was the lactation counselor, you've got perinatal clinical therapist, pelvic floor therapists. Those are those that that kind of birth worker world sometimes family friends, but then there's even like, just there's more even people that you can ask for help. And so don't forget those things. You don't have to use one. You don't have to use them all. It's just it's finding those people that align with those thoughts and intentions and goals that you have and then asking for that support and help too.

3:16

Yeah, I think something I've learned from my co doula partner, Hannah, because she's a postpartum doula is the she walks through because each person's situation is different. And so when you're thinking about your so we think it's super important to do some planning during pregnancy for the postpartum. And what that looks like is looking at your situation, right thinking about partner work schedule as the partner their family support, your desires and preferences. If you have any older children if you have pets, when you're going back to work, how you're feeding your baby, all of these things need to be considered and then you think about how does this plug into my life. And what the postpartum planning does is it walks through and says, Okay, you know, here is what I need to do in order to get what I want out of this postpartum or how, here's what I need to set myself up for success so that I can have the best chance of having a positive, healthy postpartum. And so what that does is it looks at your unique situation because sometimes what we're saying some people are like, that doesn't work for me. So when you when you sit down with someone who knows all about postpartum and can kind of walk you through those things and give you some tips and suggestions for getting what you need out of it within your set of circumstances. Holy cow, that is like a gift that is that is gold, and then it kind of provides some framework. It provides some questions for you to consider for yourself, for you to talk about with your partner for you to talk about with your family, your support network, and then maybe even beginning to budget for the things that might help ease that postpartum time that healing and give you the time and space you need to heal. So that's where you were kind of getting into some of those ancillary helpers. So we talked about the core, like birth support team you mentioned all those people. And then there's like your family and friends who can bring their real good to bring meals, they can help with chores, usually around the house. There was more intimate right you can you should be able to ask these people for some more intimate help. But then there's like simple things like and I say simple I don't mean like easy, but bringing in maybe someone to help clean the house or bringing in asking a maintenance person, you know, say your husband had to go back to work and you've got a couple of little repairs around the house and you're attending to the baby can you have like a handy person come in and help us some chore? Not chores? You know, maintenance things. Can you help some hire someone to do the yard just during the postpartum period? Can you have someone come walk your dog or help clean up any sort of pet stuff you have in the house that that is just so it just ends up being so much extra work when you are tending to your baby? And this for some people they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, house cleaner yard crew? Who Who do you think you're talking to? And this This is where we can go back to like budgeting for baby. Prioritizing, like needs and this is not like to say oh forever you're gonna have these things. It's just like for this 12 weeks just start there and maybe for in that 12 weeks, you could maybe have a house cleaner come to times just to like, bridge the gap or something just to help ease the extra work you have to do. Can Can you build that into your budget or is that something you could put on your registry? That's my mom did that for both of for my sister's and I helped have someone come clean the house for us after the baby was born and oh my goodness. That's amazing. Because she was like, I don't want to come clean your home house. I want to come home today. I'm gonna send in a cleaner but like could you put it on the registry? Could you make those requests to help pay for them? So I share those things. It's just like, oh, well, I hadn't really thought about that because I thought it was unattainable. And I just want to say okay, maybe parts of it is and maybe don't need something every day. But just where if they came twice a week could they help? And then also really highlighting a postpartum doula because that's what you pay for their services. Like I'm a birth doula. So I provide all those services pregnancy and birth but not as much postpartum as a specialized that's another certification. But they can help with like household chores, they can help with breastfeeding and infant feeding. They can help with you know, emotional support. Things like relationship changes, you know, can have the this in depth support from a postpartum doula. So I always like to highlight that and Hannah my like I said, my co doula partner, she offers a postpartum planning call, which is like $35, you get 90 minutes of everything I just said in like a in depth phone call. And that can be done anywhere, anytime and can really help set you on the right path. So I'd like to highlight that. And again, this is just your network of people and we also have that we have an episode all about building your first support team, which also goes into depth on some of these providers and how they can support you during this time and I know I've missed something. So where what what's next?

8:18

No, all in it. That was so good. I just the take home point is like the ease so where there's a will there's a way also so you know, whatever, you hear something that's like, Well, that may not work for me. Okay, well, what works and so let's reverse engineer that backwards, and how you can support yourself. I really do want to mention, I don't want to go in depth with this because what I'd really rather do is have a perinatal mental health specialist Yeah, on the episode but we can't talk about fourth trimester and postpartum without mentioning just the mental health component. Absolutely. Yep. Um, and so you know, there's baby blues which is just those feelings those low feelings and depression that's very short lived couple of days, maybe a couple of weeks but when we get to a couple of weeks and on have those same feelings and thoughts and emotions, that are linked more towards the depression, anxiety, that is where we do have the clinical definition of postpartum depression. And it needs to be talked about and so we're, we're going to dedicate, you know, a whole series to that as well. So I don't want to make light of it. But there's wonderful resources out there too. We're going to put them in here. I love Postpartum Support International. And, and we've got some wonderful local counselors as well too. And a lot of them do online things. But I think that just comes down to again, asking for help and being very open with those thoughts and feelings and knowing that yes, we've got hormonal things estrogen, progesterone, kind of just really plummeting. And that can put you in for a whirlwind, but it's also the the stress and inflammation from the birth process as well. So you're not weak you're not less than because we have these thoughts. You know, and especially if you have that history before birth, let's do some proactive things. I've had a lot of moms that do that. And I've had great success with that saying like, I know that big transitions affect me so I'm going to seek this help out now. Yes, but just wanted to touch on that just to get because I know we put that in the the birth support team, but it's really important.

10:32

Yeah, and I think the thing the takeaway with that is that one if you're predisposed to it, definitely being proactive can really reduce length and severity of any sort of postpartum mental disorders. And then talking about it before the birth with your partner, close family friends support team about how you're feeling symptoms to look out for because when you're the person going through it, in you are in the fog and you're having the feelings that persist beyond the two weeks, you're usually you're going to be in a place where it's harder to ask for help. It's harder to raise your hand and be like, hey, something's wrong, which I hope you do. And if you do, like just that's all you got to say is something's wrong and ask for help. But priming your close network of people and providers for that, so that when they see it and you say those things that they are ready to act, and that they have someone they can call, you know, you can have a couple perinatal mental health counselors on your phone or you know, to reach out to you can simply ask your care provider for recommendations you can ask your doula you can ask, just ask for help is where you start. But when you've primed those family members, they're they're gonna receive it because they're getting that okay, I'm aware of this. Because a lot of times family members have that. Oh, you're fine. Honey, you just had a baby. Oh, just shake it off. Oh, you know, because it's mental thing. It's always like willpower in a way. And that's not the case always with postpartum mental health disorders. So when you can give them a little bit of information and prime them, it can help everyone be a bit more proactive. And again, when you're proactive, it's the it has a greater chance of reducing length and severity of symptoms.

12:11

Exactly. Exactly. And I'm excited to to do some more in depth episodes with that with some counselors and therapists that have really good tips and tools and that type of thing.

12:24

So Manny, I think that's going to be a really really good episode in the future, and I think it deserves its entire, an entire episode. And I do think the other thing that we probably haven't really gotten into, but deserves a little bit of conversation is about infant feeding. Just real quick because if breastfeeding, chest feeding, feeding your baby it begins from the time they're born, and it lasts indefinitely. It can be all consuming. It can be stressful, it can be smooth. It can come with a whole host of challenges, twists and turns. And my advice for that is to again front load so getting with a lactation counselor ahead of time during pregnancy, talking about some tips for navigating those first few weeks of feeding. Warning signs to look out for. You know when to seek additional care from either lactation counselor or chiropractor or a pediatrician to help facilitate healthy feeding. And I think so with breastfeeding, it promotes bonding, it promotes connection. I mean, there are so many benefits to breastfeeding, we could list them endlessly, but it can come with stress. So sometimes the hyper focus on breastfeeding as being our chest feeding as being the only way to feed the baby and the only way to have connection and the only way to bond can absolutely increase stress and increase depression and increase feelings of failure if it's not going smoothly. Or if you're having challenges or you're just not feeling connected. So I just want to give you some space and permission to to say that it's not going well and to to feel all those feelings but to just be proactive in seeking help and or surrendering and saying you know what, maybe this isn't for me and finding the path that is for you. And knowing that whatever path that is you're a great mom. And that breastfeeding is not the only, you know, validating factor in success as a mom. Of course it comes with a host of benefits I would never discount that. But I also just think we need healthy mentally healthy moms and sometimes Breastfeeding can be stressful.

14:49

Yes, I mean, that's, that's perfect. Everything you said and you know, I want to do we've already got some stuff lined up to have episodes with lactation consultants as well as some interviews there. Again, a wealth of knowledge and things that we can do there and how they help. I love the front loading. I love taking those breastfeeding classes beforehand, having those counselors like in your pocket, so if something comes up you can ask, but I would say that is probably the number one thing I deal with in the office is with the new moms is coming and checking it Okay mom, how are you? And I always ask, you know, how is nursing going and that seems to be the thing the most that we that we talk about? It's you know whether they're gassy whether clicking with the latch isn't good. Whether they've got plagiocephaly, all of these things. It seems to be the biggest thing that I hear in the office. And so which means it can be one of the biggest postpartum stressors as well. So yeah, it's worth acknowledging the benefits, but also understanding it it can carry some weight and some stress to it too. So yeah,

15:54

and I would love if you would share with us to what you how you work with your postpartum clients postpartum, because I'm in chiropractic care, something I recommend, from the onset of pregnancy all the way through, like forever. Forever. and ever. Amen. But especially newly postpartum. Would you share with us a little bit about the benefits of that and what you see in your office?

16:21

Yeah, so um, we're gonna, we're gonna go through this because there's an outline in the method in my head. Of, of how I think and explain this to people in some of the classes that I've taught to but, you know, pregnancy, labor birth, not only is dealing with like those mental and emotional stressors, but there's the physical components to it. As well to in that fourth trimester. Pelvic Floor, we've had an interview with Dr. Tina Harris, who's a pelvic floor, physical therapist, and we kind of went through and defined some things. You've got your pelvic diaphragm. So those are the muscles that connect the coccyx and the pubic bone supports the bladder, uterus, vagina, rectum. That whole area. Like is just takes a beating during labor and delivery like we just there's no other way to put it because this is all of those muscles, ligaments, tendons, nerves is impacted and affected in the birthing process. And so when we think about the, that physical structure of the body, you've got the brain that's controlling all the functions of the body. It's doing that through the nerves, and so you have the nerves that are coming out from the lumbar area, low back and the sacrum, so you have a sacral plexus and this this like bundle of nerves and it shoots out and that gives that's the nerve supply to the perineum, then so lumbar nerves are getting nerve supplied to the bladder, the uterus, the reproductive organs, and so when I'm looking at it, in a structural aspect of things of how the spine is and how its mind and how our nervous system is functioning, I want the body to tell the brain what's going on and I want the brain to inform the body what's going on and we need to have that good. two way communication. So when we don't have that good two way communications we call a subluxation. In chiropractic, we have that nervous system irritation, and we don't have that functional and biomechanical movement that's optimal as well and that pelvis and sacrum and so that can impact that nerve signal. And so it's not the end all be all. There's other aspects to it as well too. But this is where I look at it from looking at like the chiropractic adjustments and looking at prenatal care and making sure with the Webster technique that we have balance in the pelvis and sacrum not only biomechanically but through the nervous system as well too. So I'm looking at that interference, and that postpartum care I just always think of it as like as far as like realigning things. Because you do your body does have to accommodate and adapt to the stressors of labor and birth. But then we need the body to come back together. And to not stay in that stressed out form. And we needed to come back together, you optimally. And so that's, I mean, that's what I'm looking at with that postpartum care. For Mom, I can't help but also talk about if we're looking at brain I mean, I'm not only adjusting pelvis and sacrum, it's the full spine. And so we're then looking at the brain is also going to impact that anxiety, mood, fatigue, balance all of those things, too, that make up this postpartum journey in this postpartum period that we've been talking about. So I'm not only looking at mom as far as that biomechanical like, oh, I want to affect the nerves that are going to the pelvis in the sacrum, but I'm also looking at her as a whole and how is our body functioning as a whole and how can we support her as a whole the birthing person as a whole and now that also transferred to you know, that the birthing process isn't only stressful and stressful, I don't always like to say traumatic doesn't have to be traumatic, but it is stressful and stressful for mom, but it can also be for baby as well too. So I'm just going to keep going and segue into that because I love working with newborns, my postpartum re exam, I have the option for just mom to come in. But I have a postpartum re exam and a newborn exam option at my office because I want mom to bring in baby because however baby was born. When they're coming out the vaginal canal, we've got that good squish, and we're working with the cranial molding, whether they were breech whether they were C section, I mean breech babies, I'm looking at hips. Sometimes we've got things going on there that we're sitting differently in the womb. There's twins, they're sitting differently when twin usually like, you know, is the bully going

21:04

to have that before or whether it was a C section, they didn't necessarily get that good squish coming out. There's so many different things that that same nervous system irritation, those same subluxations that can occur in MMA. Mom can occur and baby as well, too. They manifest differently. They look differently. This is why I do the scans. It's why everybody is so different. I mean, what is some two people can have the same lumbar subluxation and have two different manifestations of it. Some may have bladder issues. And some may have digestive issues and somebody have sciatica. I mean, it's just it's completely different. So same thing with the baby. We're really looking at nervous system function of the baby and how are those subluxations manifesting? I am checking nervous system function. Those manifestations can come in the form of colic, reflux, GERD, constipation and latch issues as latch issues are the big things I see. We're looking at that top bone in the neck and then alignment there because again, that birthing process, again is stressful and stressful, and it doesn't have to be traumatic for them and it doesn't have to be for there to be an issue and baby doesn't have to have a nursing issue or anything to be checked at birth. Gosh, I think every baby should be checked. At least say I have some babies get checked at birth and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. She handled it so well. adapted so well. And I have other babies I'm like holy moly. You got plagiocephaly we got torticollis we get all kinds of things to work on. So different. And you know what both births could have been vaginal birth, unmedicated. And that is just That's it. That's, that's the beauty of life, the beauty of how we're all so different in that type of thing. So it's, I guess that's where I come in as it doesn't have to be such a traumatic birth for baby to be checked. But I know the impact that chiropractic care can have for newborns when you have a trained chiropractor who works with infants. And you know, they just have to look the same. It's totally different than working with an adult when you've got that specialized training, but it is safe and effective. For babies when we are treating the subluxation and that nervous system irritation that the baby has.

23:17

Yeah, mind. Hold on my brain just every time I hear you go through that I'm always like, oh god, that's amazing. So much helpful information there so many good takeaways. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And I always like to re emphasize to with chiropractic care, especially your office because I I've been in it and I know you so well. And I know a couple other really great chiropractors who do similar so just reminding people that going and seeing a professional chiropractor who supports pregnancy and families and newborns. You offer so many other resources. You know, like if they come in I just think it's a more intimate visit. You're usually seeing them before they see their OB for that six week checkup. You know, it's this more intimate connection of like conversation and you offer resources. So they might say, you know, you might do their adjustment and then they share with you they're struggling with breastfeeding or looking for some resources for some local mom groups or something. There's always just like little things they could drop in there and you you work so hard to provide places for them to go get more information you work on building those relationships with ancillary providers, like pelvic floor therapist, so if they're struggling beyond, you know, you help them in one way, but then a pelvic floor therapist helps them in another way. And they might need both of those types of care in order to be fully like, you know, heal from whatever they're struggling with. You're going to provide those resources and you have those connections in your community. You have online resources. So just like knowing that, like when you establish care with a good chiropractor, such as yourself, you're, you're signing up for so much more. And it's so much more deeper of a connection and serves in many, many different ways. And for a long time, it's like this you build this relationship where, you know, you're with them through many, many stages of life. And I just think it's such a gift, and I appreciate the work and services you provide.

25:21

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is a gift and we work. I mean, there's so much more to chiropractic care for newborns and it goes into kids and we're looking at primitive reflexes and milestones and I mean, there's just a lot to it. So end up doing an episode on that.

25:33

Yeah, that'd be bad, like on outside of the newborn. Yeah,

25:37

like where it goes and continues. But you know, I love the international chiropractic Pediatric Association. I can't mention any of the stuff that I do. Without mentioning them because that's where I have my Webster training. You can search on their website, you can type in your zip code and find chiropractors who are trained and working with kids. And babies and moms and newborns and infants. You can find those in your area. So I know being that wealth of knowledge and that's what we hope to with a podcast who is to be that wealth of knowledge. We have lots of things in the show notes here old episodes. I mean, we just have lots of things. Yeah.

26:17

Any other episodes where we kind of highlight or talk about elements of this conversation. So we'll link those. I think you had one for psi, we'll do the chiropractic website. I had a couple books. The first 40 days I was going to link and then the postnatal depletion cure, both really great resources to read. So yeah, we're all about kind of furthering the conversation by providing some links for resources. So yeah, do you have anything else to add Dr. Shannon?

26:48

I don't think so. I mean, this obviously, this conversation could have kept going, I know we're long right now. But um, postpartum is just very important. And so this isn't this isn't everything. It's just little nuggets. So hopefully, we can continue, you know, the conversation of his postpartum time and offer even more support.

27:10

Absolutely. Yeah. I felt like I could talk about elements of this conversation further and that's what we're doing and we'll extract a couple things and make future episodes so we hope you enjoyed this episode. Of course, if you like what you heard today, be sure and subscribe, share it on Instagram tag us. We are at aligned birth and we hope you enjoyed the show and the resources we provide and we'll be back next week.