Ep 82: Hot Take: Birth Doulas are only for Unmedicated Birth

There are many different kinds of doulas who provide a wide range of support and services. A common misconception is that birth doulas are only for those who desire an unmedicated birth. In this episode, Doula Rachael breaks down the many reasons birth doulas can support all types of birthing people and birthing preferences.  You may agree or disagree but I hope you find this episode helpful in understanding how doulas can provide meaningful and effective pregnancy, birth, and postpartum support.

Check out other related episodes:

Ep 76: Five Benefit of Labor Doula Support
Ep 77: Informed and Shared Decision Making
Ep 40: Lamaze 6 Healthy Birth Practices
Ep 38: Heart-Centered Work: Building a Sustainable Doula Business
Ep 25: All About Vaginal Birth After Cesarean (VBAC)

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Disclaimer

The information shared, obtained, and discussed in this podcast is not intended as medical advice and should not be relied upon as a substitute for professional consultation with a qualified healthcare provider familiar with your individual medical needs. By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others, including but not limited to patients that you are treating.  Consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having.  This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast.  The podcast hosts take no money from affiliate links provided in the show notes. 

Podcast Editing by: Chris Godfrey of Godfrey Sound: www.godfreysound.com

Music: "Freedom” by Roa - https://roamusic.wixsite.com/roamusic

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the aligned birth podcast. doula Rachel flying solo today and I am here sharing a little bit of a hot take. Okay, so I've heard this throughout my entire doula career, but I've heard it a lot recently and I just kind of want to talk about it and share my opinion on it and it might be for you and it might not be for you. But that's life. Right and I hope you will listen and let me know what you think if you agree or disagree. I'd love to hear. So as a birth doula, we hear very often that someone might say, I don't need a doula. I'm getting an epidural. Or I don't need a doula I'm having a cesarean for XYZ reason like they already know it's planned. Or I don't need a doula those are only for crunchy people. Or I don't need a doula. I know I want to give birth in a hospital. Or I don't need a doula my husband is very involved and is going to take you know, take the lead and knows exactly what to do. All of those are things I've heard throughout my Doula career, and even more so like lately a lot and I just kind of want to talk about that. I'm like to all of those. I think a birth doula is beneficial. Me and my co doula partner, Hannah, very much share this opinion are in are in alignment and that's why we do what we do and why we work together. Is that you know, birth doulas are for Wave think birth. doulas are for everyone like that everyone should have access to a birth doula and that everyone could benefit from having a birth doula. Now that doesn't mean that every birth doula is for every person. Like we believe strongly that you have to align with your your person, your doula who you choose, and you have to really vibe with them, and really like feel like they can be in your vulnerable space during birth and that you trust them and that you know, y'all are on the same page with your birth preferences and your needs and wants and all that though we do think birth doula should be available for everybody and and have, you know, more opportunity to serve birthing people who are doing it in like any of those categories I just listed like if they think they don't need a birth doula because they are getting an epidural. We're over here like Yes, an epidural can really still serve you or I don't need an epidural. You know, I'm giving birth in a hospital right? Absolutely. Yes, most people give birth in a hospital like we're here for that. Some people might even say I don't need a birth doula because I'm giving birth at home and I have my home birth midwife, and we're like, well, they serve a role we serve a role like so learning more about how the birth doula can serve and provide support and all of those like different scenarios is really important. This is how we can make it more available make it more known make it like, you know, recognizable about how a birth doula can make a difference, no matter what kind of birth you're going to have. And so some people might disagree with this opinion. Some people might be like, no birth, doulas are here to make sure that you have an unmedicated you know, orgasmic, totally peaceful, uninterrupted, no intervention birth. I'll tell you when I started as a birth doula, and even when when I had my first son, I had a similar opinion. I thought that that an empowered birth meant one free of intervention, and unmedicated. And, you know, no, no problems and no twists and turns. It's like it has to go a certain way in order to be satisfying or empowering or you know, truly natural because I really don't love the phrase natural birth because I think all birth is natural. I think there's medicated and unmedicated and and supported or free. There's kind of like different ways of describing it but I think birth is natural like saying it's natural doesn't actually mean it's unmedicated. Some people might say vaginal birth is natural, but I think belly birth is natural, like you're still bringing a human into this world it is natural. So you know, if you know you want a medicated birth, meaning you know you want to give birth in a hospital and you know you want an epidural. Birth, doulas can still help you if you know your husband's going to be there and he is your rock and he is your everything and he's involved and his amazing. Virtual can still help you. If you end up needing a cesarean or you want a cesarean, a virtual that can still help you and our approach and so I guess I'll back up because I was talking about I was talking about where I was when I gave birth to my first I was very much like it needs to go a certain way in order to be empowering. Now I took all the steps that I thought I needed to take to have that birth I you know switch providers. I went to change hospitals chose a hospital that I thought was gonna that did align with me ultimately, but based on you know, what I wanted, chose a different hospital. I did childbirth education, I did a breastfeeding class. I heard a doula, you know, had a midwife all the things I really really like, devoured as much content about unmedicated childbirth as possible. And I was fortunate enough that the cards align the stars aligned, everything aligned and I had a really positive hospital, whatever. But even after so after that, it's almost like it it sealed, the like cemented in the idea that that those things and those steps equal an empowering, satisfying birth. And so when I started my Doula career, I really was on a mission to help everyone achieve that type of birth and I really felt like I only aligned with people who are seeking that that kind of birth. And that's just being honest, and I think a lot of doulas might start out there. I'm not saying everyone does, but a lot of them do. But that's not necessarily the most effective way to serve. You know the vast majority of birthing people and really closes off doors and opportunities to serve other in other ways. And so what I've learned through the years, really in the past, I'd say three to five years I've been doing this about nine years and the past three to five years. I've really shifted my perception in what a truly empowering, satisfying birth looks like. And that's because I've witnessed so many different types of birth now, before I was a doula as I was a noodle. I've only seen certain types of birth and supported certain types of birth. So really, I just hadn't had enough exposure. And so through the years I've really evolved in the type of support I provide and that my co doula and I provide together as a team. And it's really that we shed our biases, whereas I think when I first started out as a doula, I use my biases as a way to choose clients or attract clients. And now I'm like, I shed my biases, like, what I would do and birth doesn't matter. It's what you want for your birth. And it's about helping you learn about your options. It's about providing access to evidence base information. It's about providing evidence based childbirth education, helping people learn about the normal physiological process of birth and the power that lies within a birthing person and the strength and the innate wisdom and also helping people learn about the challenges that come with birth, the unpredictability that comes with birth, the nonlinear nature of birth, and how to navigate that path in a meaningful and effective and supported and informed way so that when you get to the other side of your birth, you feel that empowerment, you feel satisfied, because we can't guarantee how birth is going to go and we can't say that it has to go a certain way in order to feel empowered, because then that's just setting us up for failure. So what we help birthing people do is shift that perspective. So say they think it's I have to do this one thing in order to have an apparent birth. It's like well, yes, let's go What are your personal or what are your ideal preferences? Let's focus on those. Let's do the things you need to achieve that. So if you want an unmedicated birth, we got you breathing techniques, movement positional things, hands on meditation, visualization, like all the tools you might need and then some to help you achieve that unmedicated birth if that's your preference, like you know you want to go to home you want it in hospital, we got you either way. It needs its own set of tools.

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If you want that, that's okay. No, I think that's what I wanted. Right? So I totally get that I get that for sure. And but we also want to say okay, you want that that's Plan A, what do we do if some things come up so we learn about the possible things that might come up? Questions to ask to ensure you're getting all the information that you have time to think about it that you have a foundation of education that you've got a referral network and a resource network to like, learn more or seek a second opinion or whatever you need to make a decision every little twist and turn that comes up. Right some things are big, some things are little some things happen during pregnancy. Some things happen during birth, right. We also hear a lot that like, Hey, can you just support me during the birth, and we're here for that, but we also believe there's so much preparation that comes before the birth to help you have the birth that you want or give you the best chance at having the best birth possible, right. There's got to be some work done during pregnancy. So if you want that unmedicated you know, really low intervention birth great, we're gonna give you all the tools you need to achieve that. It takes a lot of work. To get there, especially in our current hospital system if you're given birth in a hospital. But then we're going to help you learn about possible interventions. We're going to talk about an epidural because you might get to a point where either you want or need an epidural. So if you've not given birth before, you don't exactly know how you're going to cope or do and so we're going to give you the tools to cope and get through it and try and push through but there's might come a point where if you're shifting from pain to suffering, pain medication might be a necessary tool, and we see epidurals as tools that can be really beneficial when used judiciously when you understand the possible risk and benefits when you understand the optimal time to get an epidural. When you know that you can still move with an epidural. It doesn't mean you just lay on your back and do nothing for the rest of labor. We teach you about this and it sort of like softens the view on epidurals so that it can be a little bit easier for them to access if if they decide they need it. And that's what we want. We want people to know that they have options, and that they don't have to do it one certain way in order to have an empowering birth, but that needs to be their choice. We're really striving to keep the birthing person in the driver's seat. Keep them feeling autonomous, keep the decision making and their court. These things are what create an empowering birth experience and a satisfying birth experience. Not a unmedicated birth not a one way birth right. If you are wanting a medicated birth, we are still for you. We are going to be like pumping you up with like we got you with all the information about epidurals and other medications that you might need during birth, or that you might want during birth. We're gonna give you the information and we support you and your decisions. We're also going to talk about the normal physiological process of birth and the benefits of, of not interfering with the flow of birth and why that matters. We're gonna paint that picture for you. So then you can be like, Okay, I still feel like an epidural is for me or, you know, maybe I'll delay getting an epidural. You know, we're gonna give you that information so that you feel like it doesn't have to be one way or the highway and also if you're getting an epidural you know that optimal time is that four or five six centimeter kind of really want your inactive labor time. And that looks different for everybody. So you still have time before you get an epidural like if labor is starting on its own. You like still have time where you have to labor and cope without pain medication before you have access to getting an epidural. Even once you decide to want an epidural it could be 45 minutes to an hour and a half to before the epidural is in and working. So we want you to have the tools that you need so that you don't shift into suffering too soon. So that you're staying calm and that you're staying grounded and centered. So that's breathing techniques, movement, positional things, Partner Support, using your home or the hospital room in ways or a shower or bathtub to help you, you know, feel more comfortable during the surges and during as things are getting more intense. You still need to know how to do that. You know, even if you know you want an epidural and then when you learn about that you're like well, well if I can go this long, then maybe I could go longer. So you decide like, okay, no, I'm gonna definitely get it as soon as I get to this point in labor or I'm gonna wait and see how I'm coping and then I'm gonna get it like cool. Like as long as like you're communicating your needs with us. We are going to support whatever you want. And we're going to give you as much information as you want to help you make that decision. And I don't think having all the information or all the education is the the security blanket necessary to ensure that you are going to have an empowering or satisfying birth. I think that's a piece of the puzzle. You know, a lot of people say if they've got the information, they're good to go. But I think it's more than that. I think it's about having support that says okay, here's the information based on your personal preferences and needs. This is what the here's some evidence based research your information about this particular topic. But now let's let's ask some, some thought provoking questions like What do you want? How do you see this going? How, what's your ultimate fear? What's your ultimate desire for pregnancy and birth? How do you want to feel during this time? How does your partner feel the person who is going to be there with you in the first place? If there's someone there like how do they feel about this? What do they need? What are their fears? Because anyone in the bar space is bringing their previous experience their perception of birth, and their fears and concerns and desires to so whoever's in that space all they all need to have these things addressed. Like so you. You need to learn about the individual needs and their preferences, what makes them feel safe, what makes them feel confident, what makes them feel better when they are anxious or feeling stressed out, based on that than you as as a birth doula. This is where we like, individualize our care and show up where we shed our biases and we put yours on like a cape. And we help meet you where you're at. And we don't come in saying it's got to be this way. You got to do X, Y and Z to achieve the birth you want. We're like are where we really work hard to figure out where people are and where they want to go and then fill in the in between so that they can get there in a in a healthy way and and like, rational expectation way and again, empowering and satisfying. And that looks different for everyone. And so if you know you want an epidural, do you see how like a birth doula can come in and help you have the birth that you want with an epidural. This matters because if we if as a society, I will say as I said, if the view is that birth, doulas are only for unmedicated births, then we are leaving out a huge population of the birthing of birthing people who can really benefit from getting an epidural and I would even say that medicated bursts inductions epidurals, cesarean need dual support more, because there are a lot of decisions that have to happen along the way. There are lots of opportunity for you to be taken out of the driver's seat and feel a little bit more ran over by the process than when you have someone who is a third party being the birth doula who isn't like intimately or emotionally involved. So the partner, the birth partner, the person like spouse,

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husband, wife, whatever is intimately connected and knows the birthing person intimately. And then the birthing person has their own feelings and tools and history. So and then they have it together. But then the virtual and knows birth really well. And so we come together as this like trifecta of a team, and we navigate the path. So if you know you're going to have a medicated birth, especially if you're given birth in a hospital, there are routines and protocols and systems at play that are sometimes bigger than I mean if we could change the whole you know, Western birthing culture we would we have to like tackle it one little thing at a time and having a birth doula there slows the process down it says okay, yes, we have to make decisions about medical intervention at each point. But how do we still pretend like the healthy birth practices at each point, you know, if it's letting labor begin on its own, if it's ensuring movement during labor with or without an epidural, if it's avoiding pushing on your back, because that closes the pelvis by 30% with or without an epidural. Right? If it's keeping mom and baby together right after the birth, that matters, like these healthy birth practices that help optimize outcomes need to be protected even if you are choosing metal choosing or need medical intervention. So if you need or want an induction, that's a really a birth doula is going to like we do a separate like phone call or FaceTime, like about a one hour to one and a half hour phone call if you decide on induction or need an induction to help you prepare for what's to come so that it can be as smooth and positive experience as possible because sometimes people think inductions are the way out, but they can be really long and knowing what to expect. Like what what do they start out with what comes next? How long will I be at the hospital? Like what are my options was monitoring can what's my ability to move around? You know, can I still take a shower, like can I still eat? When should I get an epidural? Like all these things like you might need some guidance on making those decisions like it's I think some people might think, Okay, I'm going to go in and the doctors and nurses they're going to tell me what to do and take care of me. And of course they are that is their job, but they're also taking care of a lot of other patients. And so the doula is yours when you are in labor. You have a doula committed to you and we support our clients, like virtually for the first like, more manageable early part of labor, via text FaceTime, our walkie talkie app Voxer. We're in constant communication, communication with our clients during early labor. And then as things pick up, we come and we stay with you in person for the duration of your labor. Now, nurses come and go, doctors and midwives come and go even less. So having that constant continuous support. That's where the true benefit of a doula comes in, again, medicated or not, if you're needing to choose the next step of your induction Mike, we're gonna remind you of the questions to ask, we can brainstorm with you we can like process with you and then you ultimately make the decision about the next choice or there every step of the way. You know, and we're not, we don't talk on your behalf. That's really important because a lot of people from my experience hire us and they are like, we need you to advocate for us. And we always try and like dig deeper on that like what does that mean to you? You know, what we want to do as doulas is teach people how to advocate for themselves, because that's a tool that can last a lifetime when you learn how to advocate for yourself in a medical environment. That is invaluable. And so we don't advocate for you. For the most part, we teach you how to advocate. But again, in the first phase, sometimes you're feeling overwhelmed, you've got the birth hormones going, you're in labor land, you're feeling a lot of pain, like making decisions doesn't always come easily when you're in labor. So you might have I don't know what to do. So we don't tell you what to do. We say okay, here are your options based on what your provider said, based on what we know. Here is, you know, remind you of what you might have wanted prior to the birth. Give you some options of some, you know other things we could do if it's if the if that's available. And then we say well, how are you feel about this? Like we remind you that you can take time to think about something you can ask the provider to leave and think about it with your partner with us. You know, we can help you make the decision. We don't make it for you. We kind of provide the information I remind you to take time to think about it gives you the space you need to think about it, and then remind you it's your choice, you're the consumer choice. And then you can call the provider back in and say okay, this is what I'd like to do next. Boom. That's empowering and that's advocating for yourself and another example of that might be if the providers in the room and you're feeling overwhelmed, and you don't know exactly what you want to do. We I see this a lot and they look at me or their partner like I don't know, I don't know. And I know they know, because they spent all that time during pregnancy with us learning. But in the moment, it's like, your mind goes blank, and that's okay, that's normal. And that's what I want people to know like when they're in their logical thinking brain pre pregnancy, or even during before the birth I mean, like you're a lot more logical and a lot more clear on what you want in the moment. It just like it can just evaporate. And that's where a doula can come in. Handy. Where you're like, we don't say yes, yes. Do this for her. Yes. Break her water. No, don't break her water. Yes. Get her an epidural. No, she doesn't want an epidural. We don't do that. We when you look at us, or you look at me, and we're in the birth space, and you are like, I don't know what to do. This is where I say Okay, remember what we talked about during pregnancy? Do you remember those questions? The brain acronym? What are the benefits? What are the risks? What are the available alternatives? What's your intuition telling you? Do we have to do this now or nothing? I walk you through that and I'm talking to you, and then you're okay. And then you look to the provider and you work through your questions, and then the provider gives you the information. And then you have okay, I still don't know what to do. And I'm like, Okay, do you want so I look at you the birthing person say Do you want some time to think about it? And then you looked at the provider and you say can I have a few minutes? And they say absolutely. I'll come back in an hour. And then they go and then we talk about it and then you kind of come down from panic mode or you you sort of get a little bit more clear headed on it. Because if you've spent time during pregnancy learning, it's there. It's in your brain. It's just not at the forefront of your brain because you're in labor that's at the forefront of your brain. That's how it works. That's how it's designed. That's important. So when you have a minute to kind of collect yourself, it's like okay, I got this we can slow it down. Maybe we need to do some deep breathing to help you recenter yourself feel grounded. Maybe connect with your partner a holding a hand a kiss, drink a sip of water, okay. Now I feel better. I'm ready to make the next decision or I'd really like to wait that full hour before I make a decision. Okay, cool. Again, this works. medicated or unmedicated. This works cesarean are not necessary an induction or not an induction like this whole process of like slowing it down, reminding you of what you learned are many of those brain acronym questions reminding you to ask for time. This we do this process multiple times over the course of a labor that's what you need to have that more empowering, satisfied birth. Do people do it without doulas? Of course they do. I haven't met many people, specifically my clients, and especially my clients, partners and spouses who after having a doula at their birth, haven't said, how do people do this without a doula? I hear that a lot. And that's not to toot my own horn, but that is my own husband was that way. You know, he was supportive of me before our first pregnancy and birth. And he trusted me so when I was like, I want a doula. He was like I'm not sure about this, but if it's what you need, okay. And then afterwards, was like how do people do this without a doula like and he wants to shout it from the rooftops? If someone's like, I'm pregnant. He's like, Do you got a doula? Not because you want to them to use me? It's because he wants them to have that experience. Because doulas are for partners, too. Like that's another thing and I mentioned it earlier, that some people might say, like, I don't need to do love my husband or my wife or my partner. My mom's gonna be there. They're, they got me. And I'm like, yes, they do. Have you they know you intimately and having someone you love and trust on that level present is amazing and really important for the flow of birth. Also, we know birth intimately, and we're not emotionally invested, necessarily in the way that y'all are. So we're able to come with a little bit more clear head and with our professional experience or education, you know, our relationship with the provider or that hospital and bring a layer of confidence and that layer of support and that layer of education, that if it's not there, it can feel a little bit heavier at times or a little bit more uncertain at times. And you don't know if you've met don't have anything to compare it to like you haven't had a doula that's fine. But we hear it pretty regularly that, you know, my husband is uncertain about me having a doula because they feel like it's going to replace them. And it is quite the opposite. We are doulas for dads, doulas for wives, doulas for spouses to and sometimes even more than the birthing person, right? Like we are checking in with them making sure they're they have eaten that

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they have gone to the bathroom that they've gone for fresh air that you know they can ask us direct questions and when they start asking questions and realize we give them information as they are as they are feeling the questions or thinking the questions. Oh my goodness, that okay, cool. I feel better because partners typically they want to fix it. They want to help you. They want to support you. They want to know all the answers. They want to know what to do next. They don't want to see you in pain. They, you know, and that's amazing. That kind of love and support is so amazing and so important and what we want to do as birth, doulas is provide the space and the support necessary for both the birthing person and the spouse or partner. So that the spouse or partner can show up in the way that the birthing person needs with as much as much emotional availability, physical touch available, like stress free like as possible. Because when you're trying to worry about all the things during a birth that can be a lot so when you have someone to walk alongside you and shoulder that burden with or that experience with and just sort of like take a load off. That feels really nice. And it's really cool. I love seeing I mean most of the times when birthing people hire us they know the benefits of a doula they recognize them whereas the partner may not. And I love seeing that evolution in the partner have like a little bit of skepticism and then feeling like wow, I don't know how people do this without doulas, you know, so we're just as much for the partner and if the partner wants to be hands on, we're showing the partner how to be hands on what type of physical touch is best for different parts of labor, counter pressures, hand massage, foot massage, just holding you know, running a bath for them getting them food and water like if they want to do that. We're going to like give you all the tips that uh, you they said that the partner can do that for the birthing person. And that wow, cool. I didn't know that was the thing I didn't know because a lot of times I'm like, I don't know how to show up. I'm here. I love them, but I don't know what to do. We got you. We can either model our behavior and then you step in when you're ready. We can give you the how to beforehand so that you can lead the way and then we sit on the backseat a little bit more. You know, if they want to be really involved, then we're not going to be in there like taken over. We're going to give them all the tools beforehand, do some modeling maybe during labor, and then let them take over and then we're going to support the space and everything around them and then be there whenever they need us. Sometimes partners or like they know, or birthing people know that the spouse or partner isn't equipped or ready or doesn't want to be involved in that way. That's okay, too. We got you. You know, and it doesn't have to be a shameful or negative thing like if I love when people can identify like, Oh, I love my husband, but the you know, the birth space is not their strong suit. That's okay. Or they're really nervous or they had a bad experience previously. That's okay. So sometimes the partner sits back a little bit and they're, you know, they're of course, but they're not as involved. That's okay. We got you we can do all the physical hands on support all the you know, verbal affirmation, get the water around the bath, you know, make sure you're fed all the things so, it can be both it can be a mix of that can be one or the other.

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Sorry about that. So I think obviously, doulas are for everyone. And again, not every doula is for every person. So we always encourage consulting with doulas doing an interview seeing if you bad and hire the one that's right for you. Most people don't necessarily hire off a list of services. They hire off of a vibe. And once you connect with someone, you're like, that's my person. That's my doula. And that's a really good feeling. So we encourage that. And the other example, that I didn't have a chance that I haven't gotten to yet, is how doulas can support Cesarean birth. We have had clients who have hired us knowing they're going to have as a cesarean. We've had clients hire us and have something come up during pregnancy. That means they need to schedule a cesarean and then we've had unexpected unplanned Syrians all of those matter and all of those can benefit from doula support and a lot of people are like, I don't need a doula. I'm, you know, I'm getting I'm going in for surgery. Again, we help you prepare during pregnancy for the possibility of a cesarean because 10 to 15% of Syrians are truly necessary for the health of mom or baby. And so understanding that we are glad to Syrians exist because I think it can truly save a mom or baby when needed. But we have a rate in our country currently the United States of about 33% So that's about triple what it should be. So then that means we're having a lot of unnecessary major abdominal surgeries. So we want to help provide information so you can learn about the normal physiological birth process and why it's important benefits of labor starting on its own risk factors that necessitate a cesarean and then how to have a gentle cesarean Did you like boom, who even knew like, again, some people are like, Well, fine. Needless to say, I'm like, do I need you? And we're like, Well, do you want to prepare for our gentle Family Centered cesarean? Do you want to know what questions to ask Do you want us to walk you through the process? Like step by step of what it looks like habits this area and you want to tell you like how you can maximize this experience? Did you know you could ask for X Y and Z. Did you know you could ask him to slow down during the process to play music to not talk shop during the surgery to get get your skin to skin and initiate breastfeeding as soon as possible delay cord clamping to a clear drape. lets you see your baby as they come out if that's what you want. Have someone designated to walk you through everything that's happening so that you don't feel overwhelmed again, the whole point is to keep you as much in the driver's seat. And present and grounded and in control as possible, because that's going to help you feel more satisfied with the experience because birth is birth. cesarean is a surgery but you're still giving birth through your Belly belly birth. I like to call it the Sirians belly birth because birth is an emergence, right? Whether it be vaginal or through your belly birth is birth. And it matters. And so we have a cesarean birth planning workbook questions to ask your provider to explore all of your options now knowing not all hospital locations offer all the options, but would it be nice to know beforehand what is available to you in the event you need us to Syrian and give an opportunity for you to ask all the questions that you want to know about beforehand. We are your guide for that and then we're there to process with you as much as you need beforehand about the planning for that cesarean or the fear and doubt around this area and or the excitement around this area and like we are going to process that with you every step of the way. We can talk to the partner about how they can support you during necessary and because again, that can be it's a very sterile environment you got to wear like, you know all the garb, the hat and the onesie thing and you know keep everything sterile and gloves and booties it can feel very like disconnected. So how do we stay connected during this time? How can you as the partner show up in the best way possible most supportive way because a lot of places around here don't allow the doula into the if they're the second support person, you know, if you have a spouse or partner there then we're not usually permitted into the O R. But on occasion we get in and it's a dream. I love it. It's really cool. And I think it's really important. Talking and spreading awareness about doula support in the dirt necessary is really important because when the baby is born, the spouse or partner usually goes to be with the baby. And the doula can stay with the birthing person and continue to walk them through what's going on and be supportive for them as they as like everything is flying around. them like you're getting your clothes closed up from the surgery and like there's anesthesia, anesthesia going, nurses are going baby cares going and a lot of the everyone in there seems to be focused on everyone else or other things then the birthing person and their actual mental and emotional state and a doula can help with that. And I would love to see who was allowed in the birthing space I think I mean in the or first this area and I think that can make a really big difference. But if we're not able to be there in person for you, we do a lot of preparing beforehand, so that you have again the best chance at having the best birth available to you, no matter what. And so and then for some people who aren't planning as a Syrian, and they have an unexpected unplanned cesarean that can be very taxing and stressful. And so we do some prep before the birth to say okay, if you need a cesarean we want you to know you have done all the things leading up to it to avoid that scenario, and we will remind you that 10 to 15% of suicides are truly unnecessary. We help slow down the process for you. We help you ask questions because again, you're going to be shifting from being in labor to going into surgery. And there is time this is not always a truly truly rush rush situation. It can be slow down, you can ask questions like everyone take a deep breath. And we encourage that and we help facilitate that and that shift again so that you can as a birthing person, have time to kind of get on top of things. Get on top of like thoughts and feelings and the questions you want to ask before you go into surgery. And we help facilitate that. So for anyone out there any naysayers, I guess that think that doulas are not for all birthing people and all birthing scenarios. I hope that this this episode, this podcast, this information has helped shift your perspective on that and help maybe open your eyes to the benefits of doula because we need to spread awareness about birth doula support, so that more people know about it. And it's not like what's a doula? It's more like yes, a doula. You know, getting family members on board for helping contribute to paying for a birth doula as part of a gift or gift registry. That can be a really great great way to shift things. Prioritizing this kind of support. You know, most people that we work with afterwards, they're like, I need a doula for everything. Can I have a doula for going to the gynecologist Can I have a doula for going to see the neurologist? Can I have a doula for making decisions at the pediatrician? Because you realize like you need this like, not everybody right? But a lot of people need is like, this little third party non bias but educated professional person, you know, I even can admit for me when I've been in the doctor's office and something's come up and they're asking me to do something or didn't do a procedure or test I feel like I go blank. And then I have to remember all the tools that I am equipped with but it takes a minute. So it's only natural for like an understandable for people to kind of go blank, but then having someone there to be like reminding you of your options and what questions to ask is really, really important. But yeah, I want to see doulas everywhere. And for everyone and more access and just general awareness that would make me so so happy. So a little bit of a hot take today. You can let me know if you think this is if you agree with my hot take or if you disagree, and I'm all for a nuanced conversation because there is no one size fits all. Everything is multifaceted, and I love differing opinions and conversation. So hey, maybe this is a new new conversation that we can have. I'm here for it. So thank you for listening today. If you have enjoyed this episode, I would love if you could, like screenshot it and then post it on your social media and give us a tag. We are at alligned underscore birth. If you are feeling really generous and want to leave us a review your words mean the world to us and it helps more people find our podcast and the more people that listen to our podcast means we get to keep doing this free podcast longer because we love this work and we love sharing about birth and motherhood and prenatal care and all the things so if you can leave us a review we would greatly appreciate it and if you are just tuning in to listen and don't want to leave a review. No worries. Please tune in next week for a brand new episode and have a beautiful day.