Ep 38 Heart-Centered Work: Building a Sustainable Doula Business

In part 2 of Doula Rachael’s conversation with Hannah Atterberry, they shift gears from birth story to doula business.  Rachael and Hannah are co-doula partners who are working toward building a sustainable birth doula business that offers a full-spectrum of support including childbirth education, newborn care classes, birth doula services, postpartum planning calls, and postpartum doula services.  

In this episode they dive deep into what it means to be doula partners and what it looks like to work with them.  They discuss a few of the ways they help to meaningfully and effectively guide birthing people through pregnancy and birth and into parenthood. They share about their journeys from being solo practicing doulas to doula partners and the positive shifts that came with these changes.  Rachael and Hannah share their mission and vision for their doula work as well as what they are most excited about in the future.

This episode is for you birthing people and doulas alike.  Be sure to listen to part 1 of this interview where Hannah shares the details of her beautiful water birth at a birth center.

Resources:

North Atlanta Birth Services 

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.

We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!

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Transcript

0:10

Hello and welcome to the aligned birth podcast doula Rachel here. And today we are continuing the conversation with Aunt Hannah Atterbury. And this is part two of our conversation so be sure and go back and listen to part one which is all about Hannah's beautiful birth story. But today we're going to be talking about our heart centered work as doulas and how we are working together to build a sustainable and successful doula business. So Hannah and I are co doula partners or business partners. Were mamas we're friends so much there and we're excited to share with you today about what we're doing and our goals for the future. Why we do what we do. And just a little bit more about doula business. So welcome, Hannah again. Hi, thank you so much for having me back. Girl. Yes, I've been wanting to do this for a long time and thank you for finally you know, we see and talk to each other a lot. But carving out time where we can sit and record has been something I've wanted to do for a while. So as we begin this conversation about building a sustainable and successful one day successful right now, we're working towards it right? Yeah. Working towards I think we're a success. Yeah, right starting starting from the get go successful but hard to put that stamp I guess on it just yet, but we're building it and working hard every single day towards a very, very big goal and vision and that's what I kind of want to talk about today. So what what is your perception or what what's your story as far as how you feel like northern land of our services, and our partnership came to be

1:55

Yeah, so it was really cool. Well, I've been a birth doula for quite a few years, and I was doing on my own and there's a lot of ups and downs and that's a whole other story. Right? I'm doing solo doula work. And then I was taking my son to a chiropractor, Dr. Shannon,

2:16

shout out Dr. Shin.

2:20

But I was taking my son there and I really was able to get really close with her by taking him to all of these appointments. And so I got to know Dr. Shannon really well. And she was actually one of the very first professionals that I've met in this in this whole realm, this whole birth round. So it was really cool because I've known her from from my start. And then she told me when I was in there, I was pregnant at the time. And she was like, there is a doula. We went to the high school together and we recently reconnected and I really just feel like you two need to meet. And so we did, and we met for bagels, right? Yeah, and I was pregnant had my son with me, and we realized that our sons were born literally just a few days apart. Yes.

3:06

The 16th are no he's the 10th 10th and Marshalls, the 19th June Yeah,

3:11

yep. And so and so we met and we hit it off and realize that we have kids the same age. And that we are very similar when it comes to how we view birth, how we view running a business, how we view that work life balance, and that conversation just got started. We had a little kindling on that little fire and then we met a few months later, and we added a little bit more kindling. And then it's just grown. And it's been awesome. I remember meeting at the park when COVID first happened, and we sat down and we really, we kind of just came to this crossroads. I think both of us were kind of that were like, we know that we need to make some sort of change. And at the time, I don't think we really knew what that change was. But we knew that what we were doing wasn't necessarily sustainable wasn't necessarily working for us and it wasn't necessarily working for our community either. We weren't reaching as many people as we had hoped to in this many ways and as deep of the level. So it's been really cool to kind of watch this grow. And I mean, we both started talking about the idea of a partnership that day at the park, but both of us were pretty resistant to it. And we weren't sure that we were each other's partner. No, we're just kind of started dabbling. In that.

4:30

Yeah, yeah. And I always call Shannon dakshin The like best matchmaker, yes. She has got this intuition for knowing people well enough to be able to put them in touch with with each other and that being bond and a solid connection and she just hit the nail on the head with us. And I can still take myself back to that coffee shop, breakfast coffee date, lunchtime, whatever we did. And like I see you with your pregnant belly and you know, I just see Avery and just the conversation we had and I just like felt I felt then an immense connection and I can see it more clearly now. Oh, yeah. Then I could then because you don't really know know until time passes and so, so thankful for that opportunity. And what came from that? And every conversation I had with you after that first meeting. I mean, we're both solo doulas. We're both we've got kids we're both trying to find our way and empathizing so strongly with each other. And also just I learned so much more about your greater vision for this work and knowing that I had that same vision and how much we appreciated sustainability and authenticity. And just like finding someone who you just shared so much similarly with and also balanced because I think there are aspects of our personality that are very different, of how we approach things, how we think about things, but what I've come to learn in our time together is how that balances each other and it was totally, it's really cool. So yeah, that was a super cool journey that, you know, I could have never predicted Oh, no. And yeah, I think we both I had always like been curious about partnerships or agencies, or co ops. There's all these different ways people can kind of come together. doulas can come together and work in partnership and reading about it and I would hear about it on you know, we listen to the doulas of the roundtable podcast. That might have been one of the episodes that really was a tipping point. For me is when they talked about partnerships, and what that looks like. I think that was a big lightbulb moment for me. And then when we talked about it, I think we both agreed and understood the like, you know, definition and on paper idea of a doula partnership made a lot of sense, but we didn't we weren't sure how it would work for us because we both been grinding on our own solo and I think figuring out how to marry those things felt uncertain. So it's hard to fully commit to the unknown when it's

7:08

hard to because you know, we both have a lot of pride in our business, right? We both put in a lot of work and it's hard to lower your guard and put in trust in somebody else that they're going to come in and have the same vision as you and have the same work ethic and have the same ideals, and the same convictions, and Outlook, all of those things. And it's hard to take that step and I remember us sitting in the park, and we're talking about it and it felt right and I remember thinking like oh my goodness, she is so motivating.

7:44

Like I think

7:46

like we both have very different like outlooks on how we are getting our information like you are like listening to like a lot of podcasts and you had like how to lead a lot of these mentors and do a lot of courses. And I was over here just like hitting the pavement. Yeah, and like doing things like a very different way and it was so motivating and so eye opening to like meet together and I think that was like we talked about agency that and we're both kind of like a who is really cool.

8:16

It started to solidify. Yeah. And you had had I mean a close relationship with another doula partnership. And I think they have had some learning experiences and I think we in conversations that you had shared with me, like what they had learned was also almost more solidifying. Okay, that this is the way to go. Yeah. And it made a lot of sense and piling on them a little bit for some guidance and, and so that I think it was it was not that day at the park it was was yeah, when we were at the Atlanta Bread Company, having lunch and it was again one of our we were at the time connecting every so often we're teaching a class together. That's right is the Hope Center was after the Hope Center class and we were going to share a little bit more about what that is. But we were teaching this birth class together, and we decided to have lunch afterwards. And I felt like the energy it was palpable, like as far as like us being on the same page.

9:12

Oh, totally. I mean, we both had, you know, because it was like one of us was the kind of like, all in or like one foot in one foot out. And then we sat down and there was no question on if we were going to partner anymore. It was like, Okay, we're partnering now, what's her name? What's her vision and like, what are we doing next? Like there was no more questioning on whether this was the right time and we were just like, All right, we're just gonna jump both feet in and we're gonna do this and we're going to commit and you know what? Works, that thing is definitely something to tap into. Yes.

9:44

And the patience and sort of like, the time I think we took leading up to that I really appreciate because again, I couldn't have predicted it wasn't like well, okay, let's give it one month, let's give it three months, let's there was no real like expectation because we wanted it to feel right. And I was just always grateful that it felt right for us at the same time. And then we both had that clarity and that confidence at the same time told I think that was really what we needed to just go forward. Absolutely. And then after that, it was just going forward. Like why did not stop? Yeah, yeah, we just kept going forward. I mean, it was picking the name, it was legitimising the business. It was starting to work on our systems. And so I want to back up a little bit and talk about why partnership. So we're both been practicing as solo doulas running our own businesses supporting clients. I've been doing childbirth education, and I've been doing birth doula work, and you've been doing newborn care classes and postpartum doula work. And birth doula work. And so running these independent businesses, so let me just tell you guys, if you're listening, when you want a lot of you want to become a doula, they like the idea. They go through the training. They, you know, get some education, get their certification, and a lot is missing. And that part of people being like, Oh, and also your business owner, and an entrepreneur and you got to learn how to do you know budgeting and, and Excel spreadsheets and email communication organization. I mean, all of the things

11:19

that a typical business owner does doulas don't think about that, necessarily. We come into this work because a lot of us are those like, servant hearts. And so they come into this work because it's a passion.

11:32

And they're not as also as the business. The business stuff isn't a focus. Yeah, it's and that's great. You want Passion Driven, heart centered workers. Yeah. However, what we know now is that a lot of doulas burnout between year one and year five. I mean, the number of deals who make it beyond five years is really low, because the burnout and that's because there's running it you got to run your business. You got to be on call the sustain, you know, sustainability. You hear that a lot. And so, for me, I had stopped and started a lot as a solo doula through having children through other work through frustration with my own doula business getting burned out. Exhaustion. All of that. And I know you had you know, felt similarly like kind of choosing like I might need to just choose another line of work because I've got to work right like and if doula work, wasn't it, so this like kind of questioning for me I was like to the point of stopping all together, or going all in in a partnership?

12:36

Absolutely. I was in the same place. I was trying to figure out how to raise four kids and make money and be home with my kids and do this work but didn't necessarily know how to make it work for us. And I got to this turning point where I was like, Okay, I either have to be doula work work, which is exactly what I want to do and like what I'm drawn to do, and it would crumble me if I had to walk away from it. But I also have to be a responsible parent.

13:09

There's a point where does it doesn't work? Yeah. If it's not working, you gotta make other choices. Absolutely. And that's where I was at, you know, spending doing things, being time away from my family to try and get the doula business going. I had another primary job that I was working, you know, kids and all that and I start, you know, when I was having some resentment, and anytime I was having just been away from my family, like, I wasn't feeling like it was more. I was struggling with like, is it worth it? You know, is it is it going to turn into what I wanted to turn into? So is it worth just spending my sacrificing right now, and so partnership so what a co doula partnership is is where you come together as doulas, obviously and you share clients like we take clients on as a team. We share the onboarding process, we share the contracting process, we share the email communications, the support for that client via text, email, phone like we're in that 5050 And then part of that is sharing on call period, which is a huge reason. We partner and that doulas partner is because if you're listening you know and pregnant when people are pregnant and waiting for birth, you know, it's unpredictable, right? You don't know exactly when someone's going to go into labor. And so there's a range that 38 to 42 weeks. And so we share that call So creating that call schedule, so that we're not both on call. I mean, because even taking for me taking one or two clients solo a month means I'm on call at almost every day of the entire year before

14:47

we partner I was on call for like six months. Yeah,

14:53

no, I mean that that's weekends. That's yeah, it's on call, no vacations and

14:57

vacation, and you're just glued to your phone. And so even when you're you know, you want to tuck your kids into bed, and you may want to leave your phone downstairs so you're not distracted by the bleeps and bloops that are coming from it. I couldn't do that. Right. I couldn't just take that moment and put my kids away to bed and that is fine for sure. Short term but when you don't get a break from that it can feel very draining to not only you but to your family because they they have a parent that is you know 90% There 10% Is my client, okay? Is my deal. Do I need to step away do I need called wanting to check in? So it's tough.

15:35

Yeah. So because as doulas we do we, our business is supporting the birthing person, no matter what, no matter what questions they have, you know, especially if they're in that time range of going into labor work. We really got to be available to them in case it's labor time and they need us that's our job. That's our responsibility. Yeah. And so part of it is like, I don't want to complain about that, because that is the nature of the business, right? However, there's the way to sort of make that sustainable and make that doable is when you know, you only got to do that for seven days at a time. And then you get a break because you have a co doula partner. Absolutely. And our clients know that so we paint that picture. For them when they're hiring us. That there's two of us that we're there for them together that there's rarely any gaps in communication, because if one of us is out of pocket or at birth, the other person is answering questions. And then when, when we're on call, like that's who's on call and that's who's worried about where their phone is and they're like 24 hours a day, seven days a week, but then you know, seven days later, your Cotulla partner is going to pick up and then your client is fully aware of that call schedule of the fact that it's one of you for the birth

16:41

Absolutely. And it's just feels a lot more manageable and how much greater is it for the client that they know they're getting a fresh doula? They're not getting a tired burnt out doula because their doula has built in breaks, right? Everyone has to refill their cup. Yes. And you can't pour from an empty cup. And so it's not fair to our clients and now other soul soldiers don't may not get burnt out like I did. I do though. Being on call and going to birth consistently without a break is difficult because it's physically emotionally mentally, you know, taxing and it's beautiful and it's totally worth it. But you also have to be able to recharge and refuel and honor yourself and your body to so we can then serve our clients in a much deeper way because we are constantly excited and ready and willing and like we're ready to answer that phone call at two o'clock in the morning because we knew that last week we were able to get a full week's week. It's right, right. It's great.

17:38

And so that is where we feel like we can bring about a more superior level of service to our clients where they're getting that fresh deal all the time, which is what they deserve. And then ourselves we find it more enjoyable and more manageable and more predict a little bit more predictable. We can schedule time away with our loved ones, family time, where you're not having to worry about that phone. And I do hear what you're saying too, that there are probably lots of doulas out there who practice solo rocket, don't struggle with burnout or fatigue. You know, they might be like a unicorn and I would love to talk with you but but it is a common way. Show me your ways, right? It is a common very, very common conversation about burnout and sustainability with what we just talked about it excuse me with that on call schedule. And people don't really because I mean, I think when I would tell someone I have like one maybe two clients a month they're like, that's, that's it. That's it. Like, you know, that means I'm on call for four weeks for one person. And so you know, people understanding that and then also just trying to paint that picture for new newer doulas of what that looks like I don't think I fully understood it as a newer doula.

18:56

I don't think I understood fully until we started doing like I understood, you know, the basic principle, but I definitely didn't realize the benefit of it.

19:06

We did it. Yeah. And I thought the energy that has come from that type of sustainability practices that we're doing and that balance of workload and client load and on call load has given me and I'll speak for myself, an entirely new energy total surrounding my drive and my focus

19:27

and it's just to like you know, it's just nice to know that your clients are covered. And it's nice to know that you have that additional support. You know, if if I'm at a berth and our client is texting us with a pretty important question, I know that I don't have to step away from my laboring client and answer that because you can or vice versa or I, you know, I was in a pretty substantial accident this year, or last year, and you were able to really step in and I kinda didn't skip a beat. I mean, they really didn't have to get stressed and I still had a few sober clients at the time. And it was, it was incredibly stressful and Rachel was awesome enough to step in and help. But I could feel their stress were with our, our clients that we had together. They were not stressed. Oh, no, she's so nice, because it's just nice for the for the client to

20:20

Yeah, and that was a good example. Of, of us sort of testing that and kind of we've been able to compare like this how set up as a solo practitioner looks when life happens and unexpected things happen where all of a sudden you're in a scramble to get your clients covered, that feels very stressful. And so that if we have that happen when we're together with our clients, we've got to see what that would look like that there would be really little sure the other person has to pick up some extra work, but it's not it's all manageable because you're in the loop. You know about the client. There's no like, there's no gap. And then I was gone for two weeks. Yeah, or almost two weeks at Christmas. And it was a planned vacation and I knew it was happening. But again, I think we contracted to clients that week and had a lot of email communications like I wasn't working, but like well, the business was still good. The business kept going and but I was able to confidently be away whereas before when I would take vacations, everything would just stop.

21:16

Yeah, or I'd have to work on vacation until you're cut right and that's not fair to your clients or your family right.

21:22

So that felt really good to that was another good time or it's like okay, I can you know, check up on things and be in touch with you. But again, business kept going and same with you hoping you can take some trips and feel that he so it's whether it's planned vacations or unexpected life events. And so we've been able to sort of see what that looks like early on in our partnership, and it's all of a sudden it's like, who that is exactly how this works. Yeah. And for me, it's like I if I were to help talking to newer doulas, and maybe we'll cover that later but like partnership is find yourself a partner. I think I think at this point, that would be one of the best things I would recommend it for

21:59

doulas that are listening. There's so many different ways that you can do partnerships. It doesn't have to be the exact way that we do it and it doesn't have to be like a marriage it can be done so many different different ways and make it work for you. But and one other thing that I think helps our clients too is if we have you know, unexpected sicknesses or illnesses or an extraordinarily long birth. Then if we have to use the other person that is our backup doula, right so if I am at a birth and it's going for a long time, Rachel's my backup my client knows that they know her. So they're not getting some unknown person walking into this very vulnerable birth space that they've never met and they don't know their background. That's right. They don't know how their philosophies are with birth and they have to just trust you, their doula. Well, they have a very good realtor who they have a very good relationship with. To then trust they have to trust you to know that you picked a good backup. So with this model, there is no there is no question on who you're getting. And and when they're coming and you don't have to meet them they already know all the ins and outs they both have your prenatals with you they've had every single text and email communication that your primary doula had at the time

23:17

Yeah, creates a seem more seamless. Absolutely. And something that was brought me stress when I was solo doula was if I did need I would always have a backup. And I rare, you know, unless I felt like there was a high probability I wasn't gonna be able to be at the birth I didn't always have the meet. Right, but I would always have them on standby and communicate with them and give them information about my client. But it would bring me a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety if I felt like I was going to need that backup because I'm like, do I want to do that to my clients, I would either over extend myself and stay in a birth for 24 hours when I probably should have tapped out at 18 or sooner. Because I didn't want to put that on my client. Yes in labor. Whereas now I have a higher confidence and ease and our clients will receive that a little bit better.

24:05

You don't have a doula falling asleep while doing a double hip squeeze.

24:09

Or just like this long birth. Yeah, that's rough. That's rough. So let's talk a little bit about our mission for North Atlanta birth.

24:20

Oh, that's so good. I feel like we have a very like clear idea on growing this community and in our local area, right. You want to nourish that relationships with our clients with professionals, and this local area because this is where we live. This is where we hope that our clients live. And when we can know our clients in this area, and we know the professionals in this area, we can really make strong referrals, right. We want to nourish other doulas and help grow them and mentor them and we want to birth by birth person by person. Sometimes we meet people when we're out in networking meetings, and we just have short little conversations, but we want to slowly change the way society views childbirth, right? We don't want it to be this big, scary event that happens to you. We want it to be this incredible transformative event that you get to be a part of and that you're that you're allowing your provider to become part of that and you're using that shared decision making. So we have some pretty we have a pretty big mission.

25:26

Yeah, and it's incredible how in becoming partners with you, I have this a lot more like confidence and bandwidth and like energy to work towards that bigger mission. Whereas before I think I was so focused on just myself and my solo like clients and my Doula because I couldn't see the bigger picture even though I knew I was part of that. Bigger Picture i But now that we are actually like creating things and groups and and work that is feeding into that bigger picture, which is shifting the perception surrounding childbirth, especially in our area, you know, I want doula to be a common word. I want the hospital in our county to have doulas be allowed and I want more birthing people in our like in our direct area to to be choosing doulas to be choosing to be active participants in their care to have providers providing evidence based care to have you know, to see that growth and not feeling we have to go these other places, right to get that kind of care which there are places in the in the Atlanta and North Atlanta area where you can get really great care, but we are where we're at. I feel like there's some room to grow in that regard. And so working towards that and that is those professional relationships that we want to work on with our you know, pelvic floor therapists and chiropractors and obstetricians and midwives and mental health counselors and you know, anyone who supports the the birthing journey, working with those people to grow together and not not like everyone be on their mission, but try and write good marriage, everybody

27:10

and yeah, let everybody have this like true sense of community, right? You know, that's where we came from. So it's getting back to that point. It's getting back to where people are leaning on each other and all communicating to each other. Like could you imagine if you had a midwife that was able to talk to a hospital midwife was also able to talk to a pelvic floor therapist, about your healing. Like, what? Yes, like, why are we not doing

27:38

that? Yeah. Because to get that kind of care now, you got to work doubly hard, really hard. And

27:43

then even so it may not be receptive. You know, you might have a provider that is not comfortable with home birth. You know, you may have a provider that doesn't know what pelvic floor therapy EDS you may have a provider in the hospital that isn't familiar with lactation, right? And so then you're fighting all of these battles. So it's just kind of slowly introducing ourselves, letting people know that we're here. spreading knowledge and spreading a sense of safety. Right. A lot of people have some very confused ideas of doulas and are short but

28:19

yes, and normalizing, normalizing what a doula is educating what a doula is. Absolutely. And helping doulas practice in scope and helping to build trust and helping you know that so that we can be exactly what we're supposed to be. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And I think that continuity of care, and that that collaborative care where everyone's working together referring together, so something we pride ourselves on is that you know, curating a list of local professionals who are ancillary to us, but also not even like I mean, we are happy to refer doulas and postpartum doulas, even in addition to all of the other professionals we want to refer to so if our clients are asking for referrals for pelvic floor therapy or chiropractors that we can look and say okay, you're in this area here are some people in your area. So you're not driving to downtown Atlanta unnecessarily? Do you live in Ball Ground or you're not driving to Gwinnett but having people trying to grow you know, if we need to refer to other places, but really, really focusing on on growing in our you no community so that we can work together? And so that, you know, professional, you know, those professionals can refer to us and we can refer to them and our clients feel like they are learning more about available resources because sometimes they're like, I didn't even know that was a thing and now they know that there's someone down the street that they can go see. So it's growing together in our community and bringing that awareness, bringing that and normalizing doula care. Yeah, you know, and not sharing fear. Sharing positive stories.

29:56

Yes. Yeah. I think we have a very, very big mission. And it's very intentional, right? Everything that we're doing is very

0:00

We we want to work, everything that we are doing is working towards that bigger goal, that bigger mission to provide people with non biased non judgmental support in the meantime, building relationships to connect these people to and just giving people ultimately more options and more opportunity to own their birth and feel empowered. And so we make a lot of steps to get towards that direction. But every step that we're taking is very intentional, because it's, it's important. What we're doing is important and what everybody in this realm is doing is important and we have a lot of work to do, because our Western society has a lot of opportunity for growth.

0:45

Absolutely, yeah, there's a lot that a lot of we can all continue to learn and, and I couldn't agree more with that reminder of of that our mission is to help birthing people on their birth, whatever that looks like for them. Yeah. And we don't believe in it being done any certain way. We don't think that you have to have an unmedicated birth to have an empowering birth. We believe that we're thankful for medicine, and hospitals and care providers who practice what they do to keep bringing people safe when it's needed. And so we really try to drive that home with our clients too, that we as a doula team are there to support their desires to remind them how to take into consideration their unique circumstances, their unique history, how to advocate for themselves, questions to ask their care provider, you know, so many things along the way that we're just there to sort of provide some information provide some gentle support and guidance so that they can make choices that are right for them, not us making choices. That we think you're right for them. Right, right. It's about like, you know, you want to go have a one on one conversation me tell you about my personal whatever. I think that's totally different. You're not going to get that in with a conversation with a client. I mean, you know, if they're asking what do you think I should do? I do everything I can to not say Right? I try and say we're

2:07

supposed to be chameleon. Yeah, right. And we shed our biases. Shutter on personal

2:12

Yep. I'm not here to shame an induction or a cesarean or an epidural or any of that and it's not about doing it at home versus hospital. It's not it's not creating any sort of combat or conflict against any sort of choice. It saying, How does this make you feel? How do you want to feel on the other side of this, like, how can we help you get there? What resources do you need to get there? What kind of support do you have at home? Like, what do you need education? Like knowledge wise? Sometimes when people need more emotional like let's process verbally some people want to like read all the all the articles, take all the classes and we definitely just adapt and support them so that they feel in charge of their birth. We know they are the consumer, they are the decision maker. They are birthing. We are not

3:04

Yeah, we're there to help back you up. Maybe sometimes it's just that extra little confidence on your team. You know that knowing that no matter what they choose that they're going to have somebody that's backing them up and that they've got somebody in their corner and you know, can provide gentle guidance along the way hey, you need some more information on this particular subject. I've got it for you. It's evidence base and it's palatable. Here you go. Yeah, like there's so much gold in there.

3:34

Kind of helping decipher some of the, you know, confusion. If you just go like to Google right, we've done all that work. We find some of the evidence base or all the evidence based resources and provide those for our clients all all along the way. And always just driving home that active participation, that maximum self determination, yeah. And just listening to what they need and what I'm always like, what's going on? Like, what do you need? Where do you want to go? And what do we need to do to get you there? And recognizing it's so individualized, oh, like, everyone looks different. Like when we meet with one client versus another plan for them. The communications we're gonna send it's going to be curated and individualized so that the needs are met. Like you might have someone right out of the gate that knows they want an epidural. Like okay, we're gonna let's get you some information. Yeah, and like, and I'm not trying to convince you not to get an epidural. Yeah, let's

4:26

yeah, let's get you some information. Let's, let's because epidurals. are great tools, right, let's just be honest, I mean, they have a place and they can be used often and in a very safe way. Right. So as long as you know, the risk versus benefits and you have chosen your you know, hey, I'm going to get this. Okay, cool. Let's talk about like, what that looks like when you're actually in labor. Let's talk about some of the benefits of choosing intentional time to get that epidural. Let's talk about positions that you can still get in with an epidural. So there's so much information and yet we're not there to try to skew you away from it because it let's say for example, we had a client, she wants an epidural. And maybe she felt shy about telling us or, or she didn't want to tell us or she felt shameful because, you know, we're doulas and, you know, we we both given birth in non medicated way so maybe they felt like a little shame or a little you know, a little doubtful in whether I should do this or not. And then they try to have an unmedicated birth and they're miserable over time. They've reached over from that hand side of thing into that suffering exciting things, and now it's a psychological experience that's now projecting in a negative way. We have then heard our client right so it's really our goal to let our clients know that there is no right or wrong way to deliver your baby. And there is no right or wrong choice that you can make and we want you comfortable and confident those choices and as long as you have all the information needed to make a quality decision. We got your back.

6:00

Yeah. We got it. Right. Yeah, some some education, some support space to make a decision. Yeah, we'll try and draw that out. We're trying to extract that out from our clients as soon as possible, like their ultimate desires, like Yeah, one of the things like when working with us is we do an extensive questionnaire that tries to get to the heart of their deepest concerns for their birth, their deepest desires for their birth, their questions, things they want to know more about, how they cope, how they deal with tension and anxiety. Their partner, your partner involved, I'm asking where they're at on all those things,

6:39

lots of questions for the partner and for the birthing person about their partner. Vice versa. Yeah, and Marian,

6:46

and we do that right away, because that's part of creating that like individualized plan and then we use that as part of with one of our first prenatals where we go deeper are on the things that we feel like are most important. And so we really try and draw that out so that we can then be really feel like we know exactly what our client wants, and that they've had a safe place to communicate what they want, what they're unsure about, you know, like you were saying, if you have the one that keeps it from you, because they don't feel like they can share for whatever reason, then we have failed them like you said, so ideally, we're able to give them a safe place to say what they need to say. And then using the rest of the time we get to work as soon as you know they hire us we're getting that questionnaire going that prenatal scheduled and communicating. with them regularly from time of hire. Oh, yeah. All the way through. And I mean, one of the

7:33

first type times that we talked to them is giving them a whole handful of resources on you know, because that questionnaire is intentionally made make you think, right, like we intentionally put questions on there that were clients are a lot of times going, huh, what is this? This is a new word. This is a new term or I've never thought of

7:52

it. And that's the point we hope to have something that you don't are familiar with.

7:56

Yeah. So then we give you a handful of resources to go start this exploration. And it's really cool to watch I mean, it's so incredible to watch people learn about the fact that they have options, what their options are, and really finding them find their voice. And this because that whole process just builds so much confidence with them right now, let's begin because then they know they're not being told, okay, well, I want to choose this intervention or I want to choose this preference of for the birth plan. Because my sister said this or because my OB said we should do this. They have gone they've done the research and I'm like, Okay, I want to do this because I know the benefits of this option. Or I don't want this because I know the risks. And I want to use this alternative option instead. And they feel so much more confident when it comes time to making those decisions during labor or even leading up to labor. And they can feel a lot more confident when they talk to their care providers and because they have basic knowledge of of what they're choosing. That's

9:01

really cool. Yeah, and I think part of that process is helping build the confidence for them to have conversations with their care provider, your chosen care provider like we drive home, you should trust your care provider who should be a high level of trust. You should feel like you can ask questions. We give you those questions to ask like but part of what we're doing is helping you have those conversations with your care provider so you can learn more about the kind of care they're going to provide instead of completely saying well, they're the provider like either trust them explicitly. You know, regardless of how much you've talked to them. I've got my doula. I'm good. We still are like having a doula is one piece of the puzzle. You have to trust your care provider because they are in charge of your of your medical care. We are not they have

9:45

a huge influence on how you feel and the choices you make, right because inherently we do have a trust in our care provider. They've been to medical school, they have training, this is their specialty, this is what they do every day for their living, right. And that is a huge, huge benefit to have someone like that on your team. However, you have to understand because they have a philosophy. They have their own background and they have their own way of doing things just as any human does. And you have to be able to trust that they align with you. And that's really, really important. So finding that care provider early on is really helpful

10:25

curbar that you trust and not just trust blindly, but trust after some exploration, some good question asking intuition checking, you know, how are you feeling when you're around that person? And that's what we strive for. Because I think when you can really trust your care provider, and you've got a doula and you've got you know, all your all the things you're feeling good about, I think you're walking into birth at the with the best chance of having a positive experience, no matter what variations come up, no matter what arises. You know, I think it's really important that if a care provider is recommending an intervention or something and you had a chance to ask questions and have that shared decision making that you feel like you don't really doubt them, that they've given you space to gather information, and it's ultimately your choice. And even if you choose not to do it, it's like you still have this, you just trust them and that just feels good on the other side. So we try and help you like work through any sort of resistance you might have around medical providers and seeing the good understanding how to navigate them working with them, and then we want to support that like, again, we don't want to be combating care providers like that. We don't combat care buyers that's not within our scope. Like we're there. To advocate for you and help you bet against us Medicare fighters, one of the things we focus on, early early, early on, yeah,

11:47

because you know, it's a lot less stressful to change a care provider that doesn't align with you at 13 weeks, 20 weeks, 25 weeks, then 37 weeks, or maybe it's 39 or 40 weeks, and they're really pushing either an adduction that you may not be supportive of or want or they could be recommending a repeat to Syria that you weren't ready for. And that's not the time to find out that you don't align with them or that find out

12:15

in labor about how they do somehow they do

12:18

some things and about how they prefer to do some things and and maybe their method of explanation. You can find out a lot in this early appointments by taking a handful of questions maybe each time or setting an appointment just to ask a bunch of questions. Does it earlier on it's easier and a lot less stressful to make sure that your provider aligns with you plus, how much greater Would you feel going through your pregnancy knowing from the beginning? You know, how your provider does things? You know what their stances on certain situations, you know, what hospital policies may limit you and which ones may not? Right because if you're birthing at a hospital, they have rules and and they are legally required to follow them. Right even if your providers like I think this rule is bogus. I don't agree with it. They don't want to lose their license, right? They have to take care of their family. So learning early on what are the things in your preferences that will work for you? What are the things your preferences that won't work for you? And does your provider align with you and it's so much better to just have that confidence going through your pregnancy? Knowing that we're on the same page, then going throughout your pregnancy going? Oh, well, I really don't know. Like, I have no idea what they're gonna do if I get to 41 weeks in two days, like, I don't know.

13:43

Yeah, you gotta ask. Yeah, yeah, I think there are questions that we we provide a list of questions to ask the provider and something to encourage just anyone who's listening when you're when we say like, ask questions of your care provider and being aligned with your care provider. There are some very specific questions you want to ask and you always want them to be open ended. So like avoiding yes or no questions avoiding asking for permission on certain things. You know, asking how they support you and X y&z scenario like how do you support going beyond 40 weeks? How do you support if I need an induction? How do you support if my once my waters broken? Like how do you support the pushing state? Yeah, how do you that's a great one. And so instead of saying, instead of saying like, do can I birth in any position besides my back, they might say yes or no, and not elaborate. But when you ask, like, how do you support the pushing stage that's going to shed more light on how they actually support birth? Versus like a yes or no questions open ended question, asking using phrasing like how do you support? Tell me more about this, and that is a conversation and dialogue and opportunity for them to share like, sure I support this but with your situation, XY and Z considerations, we might have to do it differently and understanding that it's not clear cut for everybody and that your care provider knows your medical history. And that should always be taken into consideration. So hopefully they can give you an answer that's fully considered and open minded and, and, you know, help you tap into you're like, Okay, does this feel right or not? Am I okay with this or not? So that's just one piece. Oh, yeah, that's just like so deep. Dive real quick on one piece of the things that we help our clients with, but all of that is to help build our clients up and help them feel empowered and help them feel like they're owning their birth.

15:27

And that's just the beginning part of our process. Yeah,

15:29

that's like the very beginning. That's just like before hers prenatal? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about like, our working with us like what's that look like? So we've talked a lot about the birth doula stuff. So we can you know, talk about like all of our services and then kind of or we can finish talking about like, what what the rest of our birth doula service work looks like with. I guess we could continue on from there and then talk about our other services.

15:56

Yeah, I think, I mean, we've kind of started driving home that we give you a lot of information from the beginning, right? We're both birth geeks. We both like information we're both very like information junkies. So we have I feel like we do a pretty good job of like meeting our clients where they're at, right? Because some people are like, give us all the things and some people are like, Please only tell me as much as I eat just a little amount.

16:25

You don't want to overwhelm so we try

16:27

to get a really good gauge of that pretty quickly. And then so throughout your pregnancy, you are going to get a lot of communication with us on Voxer, which is a communication tool. It's a walkie talkie app. And so our clients are able to hear voices were able to hear their voices and we can connect on a deeper level. But at a time it's convenient for all of us. A lot of our clients have other children. We have other children, we're running businesses, so it can be really intimate and intentional conversation, but convenient throughout the day for everyone.

17:01

I love it. It's so great. It's so great for me on getting clients on board with boxer is one of you know, I'm always stoked when everyone downloads it. And as in I'm gonna get the partner in there both Hannah and I are in there and then the birthing person and and we can talk and yeah,

17:18

yeah, Pele. I love it in the SOP. It's not for everybody. So we still offer texts and we offer support, and then but getting to know you well, it's really important for us because then we can give you the information that you need. Are you choosing to feed your baby from your body like with breast or chest feeding? Are you planning on using formula if you're planning on using formula, we're not going to push breastfeeding down your throat and send you breastfeeding emails. Right. So we find out the information that the client needs to know and we drip that information to them in manageable ways. So they're not getting bombarded throughout their pregnancy. It's really really great.

17:54

You know, basically took like, what would be considered probably a packet that we might deliver at a first prenatal Yeah. And we've made it digital and we drip it gradually. So they're not bombarded and they have access to go back to it. And, and we cover to cover all the main important topics.

18:10

Yes, absolutely. And then and then we do that first prenatal we try to do that pretty early on. Because we feel like you know, we have a console and we get to see your clients face to face. But then we want to be able to see you face to face again, because we want to start building that connection. Ultimately, we want to know your desires well enough and like you as a person well enough so that when we get into that birth space, we're not having to ask you like is it okay if I touch you is okay, if I massage like we want to know you well, like we want to be able to understand, okay, is she or he feeling anxiety here? What's that look like for that person? So we find out that information really early on and we continue to build and build and build these deeper connections. So then when we're with our clients, they're feeling comfortable with us, and we're feeling confident in our abilities to support them. So we do that pretty early on. We have our emails and our texting and our phone calls and then we have a prenatal towards the end of their birth or the end of their labor. Wow. The end of their pregnancy. Hopefully we're not doing it in labor. That would be bad.

19:14

That would be too late.

19:16

Yeah, we're really getting some hands on practice now. But we get to do that towards the end of their pregnancy and we're able to come in in person in their home and talk about labor. Talk about any concerns that they have talked about what it looks like when they're having a hospital birth versus a home birth versus a birth center birth, When do you leave? When do you say when you call your midwives, what's going on. So it's really really great and we're able to we both come it's in person, we practice some positions we talk about postpartum it's it's pretty awesome. I got one of my favorite ones because we get to see her clients in person. It's very, like hands on activities

20:00

and yeah, try make it fun. Get connected with the partner and the birthing person and talk about birth plans. Kind of finalize some of that and will labor rehearsal and some practicing they're kind of walk through what it looks like for them that early labor stage so that they can feel confident doing that on their own and, and when to call us and

20:18

I always leave those like those prenatals just like beaming like so excited. Yeah. It's like it's so much fun doing Yes.

20:25

And because they're so they're getting closer to the end of pregnancy, they're feeling that excitement. You know, it's a fun time.

20:31

It's a very real and I think it becomes very real for the partner, too. And I think that prenatal is so good. I mean, I think obviously, we do both of them on intentionally they were very big international goals for each of them. But I think this second prenatal is so good for the partner, because it gets them and the birthing person working together, right. So we're practicing counter pressures. We're practicing comforting touch we're practicing. We're teaching the partner how to model behavior. Right? Because we don't talk to people in labor very often that kind of gets them out of the zone as labor land headspace and gets them back into their thinking brain. So we teach the partner how do you communicate with your partner without words, right and that's very foreign. So we get to practice that and it makes a partner feel so much more confident when it comes time for labor

21:22

and kind of given them some tips as to what they might see some shifts. Yeah, and their partner they're used to seeing being either talkative or bubbly or whatever and then those shifts that are very normal. They might be more quiet or more snappy or more, you know,

21:37

stop the chill communication. Yeah,

21:38

efficient integration. You just remind them of that. So when that's happening, it doesn't panic the partner, you know, so they're not like, well, what's wrong? I was like, I don't ever want them if that seems wrong, because they're seeing something different and they won't see because most birthing partners haven't seen it. So it all feels like worrisome or that there's concerns or I'll try to mitigate that by saying okay, this is what you might see or hear to normalize. It's very important for the partner and I do want to emphasize to if you don't have if there's not a spouse or a boyfriend or girlfriend, who is the quote unquote partner, that if you can find a loved one or a close friend who can be that partner, that that is you get that one support person in most hospitals plus a doula and so having whoever that is, maybe it's your mom, your aunt, a close friend, who can also be there to practice that with you. Yeah, it works for whomever is going to be in that birth space with you and it's beneficial for whomever that is.

22:33

Absolutely. And yeah, if and if there's people that have a little bit more open hospitals, I don't even think it's a bad idea for people if they're having, like, their mother come along with them. Like let's say they have a partner, and then their mothers also going to be in the pros face. I've even had clients where we bring them into it that prenatal Yeah, especially if you're concerned about setting boundaries, right. We can help you set those boundaries by just saying like, Okay, this is what in general, this is what birthing people need. They need a quiet space. With not many distractions. I don't need people asking them questions. They need to, they need a calm foundation and if they're having you in that birth, especially if it is like a mother, right? They they that's their comfort their whole life, right? So they need you to stay calm and grounded. So having that person even at the prenatal can be really definitely. So yeah, it's really great. And then to you know, we talk a little bit about partners concerns in that first prenatal because this is an experience that the partner goes through as well. Right. Obviously the the birthing person is the one experiencing the physical aspects of flavor, but the partner is having an experience to they're having to watch their loved one. Go through a very difficult and transformative experience and there's things and characteristics and attributes that they might not normally see. Or maybe they only see them in very intimate settings. Right. Right. To be kind of getting more comfortable. Yeah. And that and so we get to talk about a lot of that and that second prenatal and you know, remind them that they don't have to have all the answers and they don't have to know all of the things and that it's okay, we can be that little bird in their ears going okay. Speak good time. You know, get really close or the speaker time to go and try that double hip squeeze. We try to meet them at that partners comfort level. So it can be really good and it can make the partner feel really heard. And also really supported because, you know, say a lot of times where that speaking voice or the birthing person, right? They're the advocate. They're the one that's making, you know, suggestions when it comes time for like medical intervention, right? A lot of times I'm partner stepping in, it's not us, right. So yes, we know all of the things but we have to give the confidence to the partner to say okay, here's some great question. We use an acronym called Brain I'm sure you shared it with a great tool, but we teach it to our clients. We teach it to the partners and we have this acronym. It's called brain it's really good for shared decision making and the B stands for benefits R stands for risks, a sensor alternatives, AI stands for intuition, and the N stands for nothing or not now, and you can formulate questions like what is the benefit of this and what is the risk of this? And so just kind of reiterating that to the to the to the partner over and over and over again. So that way when they're in labor, they feel like

25:32

a rock star like that. I know what they're doing as a doula like our goal

25:37

is to make your partner look like they just fell from heaven. Like yes,

25:41

for you to feel that way about them and then feel that way about themselves. Yeah. And that's like we strive for that and some people's perception of the doula might be that they take place with the partner. And we strive to enhance the partners experience together and protect the bubble of the partner in the birthing person, and to step in as much as we're needed or to step back as much as we needed, so that the partner doesn't feel like they're not needed or anything like that, to try and build them up so that they feel like that rock star right.

26:08

We say this all the time. It's like your partner knows you intimately. And we know birth intimately. So together we just make a really good team. That's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah,

26:18

that's perfectly said. I love that so much. So yeah, that's how we support or help during birth a little bit. And then we've talked about the prenatals and the birth. We're with you we come join you usually around active labor sometime a little bit sooner, sometimes a little later, based on when you're ready for us, and we stay with you in for the entirety of the labor. That's the goal, the continuous support. That's how you get the benefits from the doula effect. That's how you really reap those benefits is that continuous support, you know, your, your nurses, the second person who's with you the most, but they're still in and out. They have other patients they're managing, you know, your care provider, whether it be OB or midwife, then this is primarily in the hospital setting. You know, they're not You're not seeing Yeah, they can come

27:00

on us, you know, a lot of midwives wait to come and then they may be in just a completely different room. Yeah, letting you do your thing. Yeah. The doula they're not there to support you in that capacity. So it's,

27:11

so wherever it is, the doula is the one next to your partner who is there the entire time. And so that's what we strive for, and

27:17

we're there before we meet you in person too. We're constantly checking in text phone, email.

27:24

We want to hear your voice Yeah, we want to hear your voice when this Yeah, things are going we are heavy contact. Yeah,

27:31

we check in you know, depending on our client's needs, you know, every two to three hours sometimes a little bit longer than that, but I mean, we're there throughout the whole period.

27:39

Yeah, yeah. And then physically with you in person, usually, you're usually one they're usually wanting us they're around active labor. Like I said, sometimes that varies, and then staying through the duration of the labor and birth until about two hours afterwards, where we help initiate that first feeding, help you get settled, help kind of clean up the rooms. Yeah, get comfortable, get settled. And then we usually depart when it's time when you're ready to really focus on bonding with the family unit. And then we leave and again we're in constant contact after that checking in on the family and the new baby and if there's any immediate needs or providing any answers to questions, and then we go see the birth family, the you know, within a week or two but whenever whenever they're ready, in person or virtual for that postpartum like birth debrief, where we can kind of walk through everything answer any questions, and also talk about how they're doing postpartum offer referrals for anything they might need. And, you know, if there's breast, you know, breastfeeding concerns or sleeping concerns or anything like that, we try to help where we can, and then we maintain that sort of phone Voxer text email support through 12 weeks postpartum. And that is the old that's the Yeah, that is gold. Yeah, we're kind of staying available and a lot of people really, really enjoy that.

28:59

Yeah, that's our that's our little journey. Yeah. You know, when you work with us, it's it's pretty great. I mean, I feel like we get to know all of our clients

0:00

And that we get to build these relationships with them. And they become very, very special to us. And it's really awesome to watch them grow and watch them change. And then when they become parents, especially this first time parents, it's so beautiful to watch. And those, those second, third, fourth, fifth time parents, I mean, it's so cool just to see those little shifts and the repeat clients that we get just, it's such a beautiful, awesome experience and we're so honored for everybody that ever allows us to step foot into their birth space. Because it's an honor, it's a very vulnerable time. And it's a very special time. And it's one of the few times that no matter what happens in your life that you're going to remember this pretty, pretty vividly. And to be a part of that is really special. And we don't take that for granted at all. I mean, and that's why we work in this partnership model of care because we want to do this for decades

0:58

over and over and over again. We don't want

1:00

to you know, be be you know, in these people's lives and, and come in and then check out of this whole this North Atlanta area. We want to we want to be here for a long time and help a lot of people and grow with these people

1:14

and, and foster the community so that when they are going and talking to their friends and staff and our community, you know, they are talking about us and their experience and hopefully sharing so that it spreads that information or that knowledge about what a doula is and what that looks like and how that helped them. No matter what kind of birth they had. And then hopefully that, you know, getting

1:32

to fire people and they share with their friends and all these positive reports that come in, it's just great. They're like, Oh, you know, when you have something that has a positive experience, and they're sharing that Think of how many people that could impact if you're pregnant now, or if you've been pregnant before, you know whenever you go to the grocery store, or you know you're in your family environment, you're at your baby shower, and people come and tell you their horror stories. And you're just like one o'clock crawl in this hole. Yeah, imagine all these people feeling empowered, and like they're owning their birth. And then they're telling you that, oh, did you know that my provider and I had to come to an understanding and we had to work together to find the best outcome for my specific needs. And it worked.

2:23

Like I advocated for myself, I asked when I needed I, I had challenges. Like I think it's important that we say like a positive birth story doesn't mean that it was perfectly uneventful and, you know, free of all intervention and free of all complication. It's that amidst challenges, yes, understanding that there are things that happened in labor that require some intervention, whether it be minimal, or you know, more involved, that I felt like this is what I did. I advocate for my own made this choice. I made these choices and I felt in charge and I felt like I was listened to and respected not being you know, bulldozed. Yeah. Or told how I was gonna labor or birth. That's when we feel like you see some negative, the negative experiences whereas it's like not about having a perfect birth. It's about feeling like that you were able to navigate the unpredictability or the things that came up with more ease Yeah. and confident. He

3:19

felt Yeah, you felt confident you felt like your provider was telling you the truth. And they gave you options and they gave you the time when safe of course, to work through those options, right? Especially if you wanted a very intervention, free birth and you're going down the road of interventions, having the moments to say, Okay, let's take a moment. Let's pause and see what we can do before we get to XYZ intervention. Let's just try all the things and having a supportive provider is part of that and that's why we find you know, picking that provider being so important, but then they can share those experiences with their friends. Yes, I may have ended up with an unplanned cesarean. But, you know, I walked myself down the hall, or that doesn't happen often, but like, you know, yes, I ended up with an unplanned

4:05

cesarean but I felt like it was I knew I get things

4:09

right. I knew that this was not avoidable. And I knew this was the best and safest choice for my family. And I'm okay with that. Even if there are some, you know, confusing and mixed emotions that come along with that which is totally valid and totally normal. But you made the choice. And you knew and you were involved in that decision process. You didn't have a provider going okay, it's time for us to Syria and let's go and you're like, Hey, I got it. Right. Right. Right. And I really want this I don't really know why I'm getting this but I you told me I need to and so Okay, helping to

4:43

remove the fear and the doubt Yeah, the questioning or minimize it. Yeah, as much as

4:46

possible. Go to your friends. You say yes, I ended up with a you know, this Syrian but, you know, I felt really empowered and I knew that this was the choice that I needed to make

4:56

and because I had doulas we talked about Cesarean birth planning and I prepared for as Yeah, gentle Family Centered scenarios I could have and then I had X, Y, and Z options for that Cesarean birth. So even amidst that unexpected event, I still had options and I made choices. And again, that's something we do as

5:16

well he brought that up because yeah, we we definitely, you know, our clients they go through a birth planning workbook and they get a template, but we also encourage them to dig into some of those sites of birth that we often avoid. We often you know, a lot of people don't want us to Syrian and so they're like, I just want to avoid the Syrian and so they don't put forth the energy to look at that as an option. Right? We do know that Atlanta has some pretty high cesarean rates. And so we encourage our clients to learn about their options, you know, before and then during a cesarean and I think it really helps people feel a lot less scared. A lot less overwhelming if you've already considered it as an option and you know, that you have choices with in that, like you have choices within getting a

6:06

series and so all of a sudden that feels like wow,

6:09

yeah, exploring those choices and saying, Okay, if I get a cerium that this is, you know, how I prefer to go and it may or may not, but you've at least explored those options. And hopefully, you've talked to your providers about those options before even going into

6:22

labor. Yeah, and those are all things we help guide them through and encourage whether they choose it or not, that is something we bring up and I you know, that's best case scenario is that they do sort of follow that and learn more about it so that it you know, kind of pulls the male back of the fear or the unknown and once we know more, we tend to feel we fear it a lot, lot less. So that's a lot about our it's a lot and it's also probably just a fraction of what we do in the birth doula realm. But that is what we share. And that is one of the definitely the driver of our business and we're most most most passionate about. And but we do do some other things. Yeah. i This is where we sort of are able to say that we offer this full spectrum doula care, because I offer childbirth education. I have a an online self paced, comprehensive childbirth education course anlamaz certified it's six one hour videos with tons of digital resources and a workbook and it's got a you know, a Facebook support group and and all kinds of fun, freebies and stuff that's included with it. And that's, you know, part of what we do and then Hannah has some offerings as well. Would you like to share us about

7:39

Lily and I want to kind of take a step back. Her class is awesome. I mean, I'm not just saying that because she's my partner, but I was I was telling all of my clients about her class before we even partnered up like I like she was like number one like, because I love the fact that it's self paced. I love the fact that it's online but then the way that you deliver the information you can tell you're passionate about it, but it's not too much right? Try and put it into those like able to get like two family members who are not like what I like to call birthday people. They're not like the birth beat people. They're, you know, maybe a little bit more fearful of birth. I had a family member that was incredibly fearful of birth and they took the class and it definitely helped a lot. So it's really, really great. So at least check it out. I think it's really awesome.

8:27

I love to hear that. Thank you so much.

8:29

You're welcome. And I offer some cool things. So I am a postpartum doula.

8:35

Shout out for the postpartum doulas because everyone needs one.

8:38

Yeah, seriously though, I was so funny. When I first started being a doula. I was like this very anti postpartum doula for myself. Not that I thought it was bad. But I had three young children I had my my oldest kids are within like three years of each other. They're really, really close and age. And so when I first started becoming a doula, I mean, I had three kids under four. And I was like, I can't go be a doula when I needed Yes. Like, I need my own. Yeah.

9:09

There is a season where for sure, so

9:12

then I had my birth of my daughter and then I realized how truly valuable it is. And it's really lit me on fire for like, really, really lit me on fire for it. So I offer that to people and I come into your home and I'm able to facilitate rest, like ultimately, like everybody's like what is a postpartum doula? I facilitate rest. I provide resources and I'm a non judgmental non bias listening ear. Right and I holding holding space right? And I can look so different, sometimes shift by shift for even the same family. So that's how I could talk your ear off about Yeah, but that's about all I'll say for that problem when I

9:53

think the bit one of the coolest things you do is your postpartum planning. Yes. So which sort of talks about what would be implemented in with a postpartum doula and so like, what you walk people through to help them prepare for the postpartum is so under talked about, and so under appreciated because people spend a lot of time and we do we get it because we're outdoors with that preparation, pregnancy and birth, but really neglect and then they're like, Oh, I'll figure it out. Or oh, if I just do this one thing, and it's like you break it down of like, Who do you have? To help? Like, where can we find this by connecting those hours of sleep like you really create an individualized plan to help these people achieve it? It's not just blowing air.

10:41

Well, yeah, I mean, I had a I had a midwife my home birth midwife was you know, from the very first appointment was drilling into me, plan for postpartum plan for postpartum plan for postpartum and every visit, I would go she goes, Do you have a plan for your postpartum? I'm like, Yeah, kind of. Like, I got a family and my family would be around. And I didn't really plan like I kind of was like, okay, my family lives look like really close on the street. But then I didn't ask for help. So like, yes, they were there, but they weren't in my house because I wasn't asking. And I didn't plan and I didn't put forethought into it. So I did plan a little bit but I didn't plan well enough. And I was able to use that as a learning experience and come up with an outline that really fits most people. And so it's a really cool call. And this is something you can do especially you busy folks with lots of kids. You can just do this while you're cleaning your house or driving and or in the store. I mean seriously. We talk about the importance of rest in setting boundaries and family and some of what to expect and postpartum. But then we make a very individualized plan talking about all the things that Rachel said but also making a real true genuine plan for self care for both you and your partner that's attainable. That's attainable, right? We're coming up with ideas that you can do self care in your home that may only take five minutes or less. But we're also thinking about things. You know, when you're 5678 months postpartum, when things have kind of gone back to like a normal level. You still need self care. So now you're going out of the house. So we have, you know, big self care items. And we have small self care items for both you and your partner. But then we also have like couples care, things that we talked about. So we're gonna make a plan for maternal mental health and maternal mental health and we talk about meal prepping and and how to set boundaries with families and and then how when they're coming into your home, how do they need to act? How long are you comfortable with them staying and then how do you go about having a conversation? So are the for the birth? Yeah, so it's really really, really, really valuable and

12:55

how to ask for help. I think you help people identify how to like meaningfully and effectively ask for help.

13:03

Yes, because you you know, you're like, Oh, my partner is awesome. They're incredibly supportive, but a lot of times partners are working. And so you know, they may get some time off of work, but they also may not and so now they're going anywhere else town is when they go back. Yeah. And so now, you know, that could be three months down the line. You no longer have a newborn but you still but now you're having to do this new shift to the planning call can definitely help for that. But a lot of times you're like oh, my partner can do it. Oh, well, you know, they can pick up the slack with the dishes and and the sweeping and the bathrooms and the laundry and the kids and the baby. Oh, well, he you know, the My partner is gonna watch my baby while I sleep at night or they're going to take this shift. But then they realize that they're pouring out of an empty cup to you, right? So we try to mitigate some of those things and no one's pouring out of an empty cup and everyone's being heard. And, you know, kind of putting some realities into the birthing person's perspective. Like okay, this is what your partner may go through. This is what your partner may feel like to be mindful and cognizant of that. And let's talk about some of the difficulties and some of like the most the areas of the most conflict, let's talk about this in this call. So you guys can have conversations and explain your expectations and set boundaries with your partner as well. So Oh, really?

14:21

Gold is gold is gold. Like you can't that right there. And then I think that's just a good primer. Yeah. For having a postpartum doula because then a postpartum doula can help come in and just like, you're already like, if you've done the planning call, and then you get a postpartum doula that's like your product. It's

14:37

beautiful. Yeah. All right. And yeah, and a lot of times people you know, they realize that they can benefit from the postpartum doula when they realize that when we're going through this section of like, who was going to be in my house during these hours and they realize that there is a huge hole in support, right, like those hours that either the partners away or they're getting their uninterrupted sleep, because that's just as valuable. And then they have a hole in their schedule, and they're like, oh, I have no one here to help me with XYZ, right. So it can be it's very eye opening.

15:13

Find those pockets in there where they can really get some good help. I mean, because again, a lot of people who were helping your they might bring dinner, many got like dinners for like a month or a month, but like maybe some breakfast food. Like could you imagine bringing a couple loaves of bread and some a bunch of sliced cheese and some turkey so they can make sandwiches easily like yeah, it doesn't have to be No, I mean, that's crazy. Yeah, but feeling the need of other meals and helping snack the birthing person. Yeah, I think of like asking for those things. And maybe it's not bringing a meal but maybe did you pick up these things from the grocery store? Yes. That will help me make breakfast easier or something like Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's

15:50

every single one of those topics. And we give options for everybody has different levels of support, right? Some people have a bunch of family and friends that are super handy. Right? And some people don't want

16:02

so they're like in a town with no Yeah, they've just moved here. And so you

16:05

know, sometimes I'll feel like first time parents are like, I don't really know if I need that. You know, it's just my partner and I and it's just the baby and my partner's on paternity leave. And I'm like, okay, yes, it's a lot easier than if you have five kids and you're having a baby with a partner that is working. Yes, your challenges may be different shortly, but they still exist, and there's still things that you can do to make your life easier. That way you guys can focus on bonding and resting and healing and not have to be stressed out about like, how do I get my groceries to my house,

16:36

right or Okay? paternity leave is wonderful as long as you can have but they are for me personally and when I see is the shift of when the partner goes back to work. Uh huh. So, planning for that time, whether it be two days after or two weeks or two months after, there's going to be a shift and so so what does that look like and minimizing so again, I always say it's like, it's going to be stretched by more stressful and more. What you didn't expect it's going to be challenging and there are going to be things you weren't planning for that will arise no matter how much planning you do. But with some of these steps, you can help minimize the stress and the anxiety that then can snowball like if that snowballs right So which way is it gonna snowball? What kind of ripple effect we're going to we're going to try to reduce stress, reduce anxiety, create connection, create bonding, create good, you know, healthy habits, so that you can, you know, have a happier, easier, you know, it's not going to be perfect. There's like normalizing that. Yeah,

17:37

it just it just takes the edge off. You know, it's probably, you know, we way back when I don't know when we were a community. Yeah. And our people lived in these villages and movies and parents took care of other parents and we all relied on each other and just our station. Yeah, without asking. It was just part of it. Right? We had people nursing other people's babies while their milks were coming in, and we had family, older children and then try was taking care of everybody. And, you know, just with civilization as we get more and more developed, we become more and more separate. And it's not how we were designed. And so realizing that that's not how we're designed and then trying to make your village Yeah, it can make life just that much easier. Right. And that's what we need during that time. Yeah, the things even if it's just a fraction, just make it that much

18:28

easier, makes a big difference. And that helped me navigate challenges. Easier. Yeah, I can't say enough about the work you do for postpartum and think everyone needs it. So thank you for that work. It's amazing. And you're making a big difference in that for sure. And I've learned a lot to working with you about that and the importance and sort of what that looks like instead of just saying they you know, are the one thing it's so comprehensive, so multi layered and so important. Okay, so we've, we've been talking a minute, so we're gonna try and land the plane. Okay, here. Tell me this. What would you tell your brand new baby do yourself?

19:08

Shed your biases at the door? And tell us what that means. So, you know, I came in to birth work being very on fire. I watched a very prominent documentary and it was very eye opening and I was lit up and I was ready to come take Western society and just give it a good shake. And on your on my terms, and like I wasn't really emanating that like with my clients, but at the same time I also was, and I was maybe subconscious and and I have learned a lot and I've learned how great sometimes the interventions can be a bit of a tool they can be and it's not that they're bad. And then also just keep going, like just keep going like you're you're going to be fine. No one has all the answers. Everyone has to start from somewhere. And they just keep sowing the seeds and eventually they will sprout

20:12

because if you stop there's nothing we would have never had. Right? You have to keep going. Yeah, you have to keep going and if something's not working, figuring out what's not working and make that change, but keep going. And it's hard. I think I would tell my brand new baby doula self, that it's hard. And I knew it was hard, but I don't think I fully understood the level of how hard it is and to stick with it because I am now where I am after sticking with it. And I was the same I have lots of bias. So I definitely would tell my brand new baby yourself that it's not about me. And that there's a lot to learn. So be open. Yeah. And I think I would tell my brand new baby yourself that imposter syndrome may never go away. Yeah. And that that's a degree of normal and so getting comfortable with the uncomfortable and like you might always feel certain feelings and that there's not like some sort of If This Then I'll be right. I'll be comfortable. Yeah. X number of births. I'll feel comfortable at X number of experiences. I'll feel more confident and excellent education. I will feel and it's just that sure that health though all those experiences help but just seeing them as that their experiences. There's more experiences to have. There's more to learn. There's more to learn, you know, always and being open to that and just like instead of seeing it as was I was so resistant to my sense of not belonging that I was so insecure and the head I stepped into the fact what I just said sooner. I probably could have been a better doula sooner or like, you know, grown faster, right. Not had a lot of stalls in my career. So I think that's important for people to hear, especially if they're if they're on that doula. Journey. Okay, last question for us here is what is something you're most looking forward to in the future?

22:00

I am really, really excited to see what new doulas bring to this area. I'm there's a lot of growth and there's a lot of change happening in the birth community. And I'm just really excited to see it flourish. I think that we're on the right track here in North Atlanta, and I think that owning your birth and just do less in general are gaining traction out here. And I think it's really shaking some things up. And it's really exciting.

22:34

Yeah, I agree. I want to say even though some people might say wishful thinking is that I am excited to see doulas in the hospital in our county. Totally. I want doulas and I want that to be normal and I want people to not just shrug off and we can't go that's not going there. I think there are a lot of people in this area and that that's a prominent place. So I'm excited for that and I'm willing it into the you know, into being true. I know it and the other thing I'm really excited about is learning more and growing into the agency model where we can share more about being partnership and modeling that for other doulas and creating more more sustainable doula work. Yeah, for more doulas, so more doulas can do this work for a really long for more time. For long. Yeah, yeah. So that's it. Thank you so much for sharing this conversation with me. There's so much I feel like we could probably talk about Yeah, but I appreciate everything you have to say and for all your time.

23:34

Thank you. It's been so fun. Yeah, it's an awesome thank you.

23:38

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