Aligned Birth

Ep 97: The Ripple Effect of Our Birth Experience

April 05, 2023 Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael Episode 97
Aligned Birth
Ep 97: The Ripple Effect of Our Birth Experience
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Show Notes Transcript

Birth is a transformational process.  It pushes you in ways you never imagined, and brings forth new life that forever changes you.  And how the process unfolds can have a lasting impact on you and future generations.  As much as we try to provide information and education on this show to help you have an empowered birth experience, having information alone does not equate to a positive experience.  In this episode, Dr. Shannon and doula Rachael share their professional and personal experiences of how birth impacts the mental, physical, and emotional health of the birthing person, and they share ways to process your birth experience in a healthy manner.  

Resources mentioned in the episode:

Cherry Blossom Study

Pregnancy, birth, postpartum, breastfeeding article

Episode 44 - You are not alone with Shannon Weist perinatal mental health counselor    

Episode 79: Embracing the Imperfections of Motherhood - turning anxiety into awakening with Dr. Meghan Toups, LPC

Transformed by Birth



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Editing: Godfrey Sound
Music: "Freedom” by Roa

Disclaimer: The information shared, obtained, and discussed in this podcast is not intended as medical advice and should not be relied upon as a substitute for professional consultation with a qualified healthcare provider familiar with your individual medical needs. By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others. Consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having. This disclaimer includes all guests or contributors to the podcast.

Unknown Speaker  0:00  

Welcome to the Alliance for community and the aligned birth podcast with today's episode, I am Shannon and do Rachel is here as well and we are again chatting about birth today we're talking about the ripple effect of our birth experience.


Unknown Speaker  0:19  

Always like to say these things like really slow at the beginning, but I like to sink


Unknown Speaker  0:23  

in like I draw I don't know I'm like dramatic with this, I promise one of the theatre background, but we're gonna talk about birth and how birth impacts us and how it impacts our journey into parenthood and and all of that it really does have a ripple effect. Kind of like the butterfly flapping its wings and creating a whole tornado in another world. So that's kind of what we're going to talk about today. I also want to mention our fun new updates that we have for the show. We have the option for you to be a sponsor for the show to help the show grow to help us continue to have wonderful content. And so if you're feeling led to offer a financial support for that we would greatly appreciate it allows us to continue doing what we're doing, spending the time energy effort that it takes to do these episodes because we know when we so deeply believe in the importance of sharing this knowledge and the knowledge that we have collectively. And so we do have that option. It's linked in our show notes and on our bus route page. So again, we will be more than excited to have your support in that way as far as as rating as reviews as well too. So you can always do that and then we'll have the x the option for you to read your email address and we can send you news and updates about the show be in the know the first to know on what we have coming up because we're really excited. We did some great podcast planning sessions earlier in the year and so we're excited for what's to come. So all of those will be linked in the show notes. So but today again, we are chatting about the ripple effect of our birth experience. So Hi, Rachel.


Unknown Speaker  2:06  

Hi, Dr. Shannon, thank you for that beautiful intro As always, this. We've had this kind of teed up I think for a while it's been something we wanted to talk about for a while. I think we both believe in this very, very deeply. I feel like it's this like ambiguous Oh overarching idea about the ripple effect of birth and and the impacts on the rest of your life. I know it sounds so dramatic, but also kind of everything that led to your burn like everything before you like all the ripples that came before you and then all the ripples that come after and why it aiming to have it as as positive and satisfying and empowering as possible matters so that you can have the best chance at like having the best like, start to this next huge chapter of life. It's like, I find it really hard to condense and to help people understand. And so I think today we're just trying to like kind of extrapolate some of these ideas and talk about it in this kind of what's the word? Like a philosophical way. This isn't like, do this and you'll have a positive experience.


Unknown Speaker  3:33  

It's like yeah, really, I'd


Unknown Speaker  3:35  

be great if we could do that, but right, because it's really not about doing it a certain way and kind of go into that later. It's really just trying to sort of it's a little bit woowoo it's a little bit like like I said, we're gonna, we're gonna go deep on it


Unknown Speaker  3:53  

a little bit. I know. Well, it's a very transformational process. And there's a lot that happens and I love the word that's come out that I've learned lately as far as in the trust and spas, and it's an I've read something it was like in the presence, that transition into motherhood sounds like adolescence, because it is a transformational but you know, we're dealing with it adolescent right now. It's insane and so, knowing that process, but extrapolating that to the birth experience, and then like you said that will be aspect of taking it a little bit further to when you look at the ripple effect and you kind of like you know, imagine like dropping the pebble in the water and you see those ringlets come out and expand and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger like that is that's the visual that comes to me when I think of like ripple effect. And so it's how our actions or non actions reverberate. Through the physical and social world. And it's kind of that big aspect of Yes, birth has made changes you you brought a new life form into the world too. So then you're interacting there but like your role has changed. Your identity has changed a little bit. And it's it's navigating those things as well as that ripple effect to it's like multifaceted.


Unknown Speaker  5:15  

Yeah, yeah. And you are you literally quite literally your DNA is changed by having a child and, and I, I want to preface this by talking about in we'll talk about birth matters. Doesn't matter. The mode of birth. Birth is an emergent, okay? Valley birth or vaginal birth. It's birth. You bring life into this world. You grew that baby for nine or 10 months, and now you're bringing light into this world. The Mode isn't necessarily the factor of getting a positive or satisfying experience. I think that's so so important because a lot of people do latch on to the I've got to have an unmedicated vaginal birth, and that that equals positive. That means I'm not happy. That means I'll be happy. But that's not the case. I think how you feel as you go through your pregnancy and your birth, that's what matters. How you feel on the other side of your birth is what matters. That's what stays with you. That's what lasts a lifetime. So the goal isn't necessarily to, you know, give birth a certain way. Like I just said, like an unmedicated births for example. The goal is to set yourself up in a way that supports the process and supports you and your needs, because maybe your needs maybe you do need an epidural. Maybe you do need some certain things. Like so how can you still support yourself in that process so that you have a positive and satisfying and empowering birth experience, one that you look back on and you're like, I was treated with respect I was treated with with autonomy. I made my own decision. I felt safe. I wasn't traumatized, like all of these things are going to set you off on the right foot into one of the next most challenging chapter which is motherhood.


Unknown Speaker  7:25  

back like it doesn't end with birth. I think to society can society. Maybe social media has a way of potentially making your birth feel less, less than if you're comparing it to things or if you have a certain aspect of so I think sometimes too, that plays a part and it could even be like Well yes, I did have a satisfying birth but it was you know, compared to this, it's not great. So Comparison is the thief of joy. Like it's it's, it's looking at that as well too. You know, you can't compare


Unknown Speaker  8:05  

your your birth to anyone else says and if anyone is comparing their work to yours that's on them right? Or if anyone is talking to you and comparing your birth to their birth or to someone else's, or trying to dismiss your experience because someone else's was harder or worse or you know whatever it's like no, like you, you have to know that your birth is yours and no one else's, and 100% Comparison is the thief of joy. But that doesn't just happen like you have to really work on that. The mental component of that and pregnancy you have to really, maybe even like back to like the birth history, your birth history and your mother's birth history. And if you're able like her birth history, like understanding what what I'm wearing and weave requiring needs to happen in order for you to get through your birth in a positive way, leaving you feeling satisfied and safe and healthy. You know, I don't I mean, at least most people that I talked to don't really always connect the fact like their own birth. Experience. It's just one generation by the way, like I was brought into this world, how that imprints on me. But then also my how my mother how she was brought into this world and prints on her therefore it imprints on me and we can kind of keep going back right.


Unknown Speaker  9:34  

And then now I know how far back it goes.


Unknown Speaker  9:37  

It can go 16 generations.


Unknown Speaker  9:39  

Wow. So that's the ripple Ripple


Unknown Speaker  9:42  

Effect. Exactly. They were they needed cherry blossom study and it was on rats and fear. I mean, that fear component being transferred. And I remember reading them being like oh my gosh, yes, that can feel heavy. Right? So not trying to do that. But also giving yourself a little bit of empowerment to be like Oh, well I can impact this ripple. I can make these changes, right impact that ripple effect


Unknown Speaker  10:10  

going forward. Yeah. And then if there is some unaddressed stuff, there like addressing it can help. You know, you clear the pathways necessary for your birth to unfold and possibly hopefully better way and it's not a guarantee. It's not it's not a negative like if you know you came from a line of trauma, it doesn't mean yours has to be traumatic. And if you came from a line of really, really positive empowering situations, that doesn't mean you're not you don't have a chance at having a hard time. It's just being willing and open to like seeing that bigger picture. And then understanding like how you got to be where you are and then the your potential for what you're going to when you're bringing out you've chosen to bring a life into this world like then they're going to have kids and their kids are going to have kids so what can we do big or small, you know, along that journey to shift, right like, like personally speaking, I feel like I have a very positive upbringing you know, wonderful relationship with my mother and my sisters. But you know, when my mom shares her birth experience, it wasn't like in her mind, I don't think it was bad. But you know, I heard it and I remember thinking why I feel like I kind of want to do that differently. Like, I feel like I hope I have a chance to maybe experience certain aspects of it differently. And so it's no judgement, I think we all do things we do with what we know right are the times play a huge role in it? But it's sort of like being willing to look back and be like, Okay, this is how it went here. Like, how does that resonate with me and what do I want to do moving forward? And there I there's no right or wrong and this can go as deep as you want or not but understanding it's, it can be a multi like layered process. One that I think it's worth exploring and kind of touching on some streams and just seeing seeing where you where you can go with it.


Unknown Speaker  12:13  

And with the what equates a positive birth experience, if, you know it's really understanding. It may not be just a massive amount of info that you mentally digest. It's can be that bigger aspect of how you feel did you feel seen did you feel hurt did you feel respected? Those type of things because you can have you know, again to like an I've shared this before I had my traumatic Well, you know, emergency C section of traumatic at the time, but like looking at it through a different lens and saying you know what, like I really did feel supported and heard and then my VBAC journey feeling supported and heard there too. So it's, it's it changes the script on that a little bit as far as it may not just be the information, overload the saying, Okay, I have all the information now birth is going to go well, it's, you know, it doesn't we're not that's not going to do well, but according to like sometimes we can just grasp onto that control aspect of things are really wanting it to go according to plan and it is such a hard time in your life because it is something that is out of your control. And if you're not careful it's somebody that can feel like it's happening to you instead of you being that active participant. And so I think when you can look at that, like yes, we want to give people the information and the knowledge to make decisions, knowing full well that the outcome could be something totally different. But did you feel supported in those decisions? And sometimes information helps with that. But it's not the end all be all. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  13:52  

no, we believe I believe firmly that knowledge is powerful, but it's kind of like what do you do with that knowledge? And also understand that knowledge is not the the perfect predictor of an empowering birth. And that's what you're saying. And, and I do think if, if you're feeling like okay, gathering information helps me ease my fears and my anxiety, that's good. But sometimes that's the easier thing to kind of fix the fear and fix anxiety because you're still continuing to control things, but then I'm sharing some of these other things that we're talking about are a little bit harder to peel back the layers and all the warm, comfortable when we're having to advocate for people treating us with respect, advocate for our autonomy, you know, choice of care provider doing your research finding the right provider that aligns with your choice of birth location, talking with your family about your birth experience, talking to your partner, your close friends, family, like really doing some emotional, heavy lifting, is a little bit the harder thing and I think that's where you combine that with knowledge. And I think you're setting yourself up for being able to navigate whatever comes your way versus just having the knowledge. Just taking the class just like learning the thing, and then not adding this other component to it, I think makes it harder to feel that satisfaction no matter how it goes. Right?


Unknown Speaker  15:21  

Yes, because I think you've said before to knowledge is power, but and by knowledge, applied knowledge is power. Yeah. And so that's as part of it too. And again, too, you can do other things with it and stuff can it's been having that flexibility with it. I think it's important to process our bursts. I think it really is. I've actually been speaking to someone I'm hoping to have her on the show at some point too, but she's in the aspect of like writing a memoir, but like talking about you know, sharing your story. I feel like we all have stories and that it's not just you know, for our benefit I think there's benefit sharing our stories to help others and but I think it's important to to process your work whether you share it you know, with anyone else or not but the process what happened whether that is journaling and writing, whether that is reading certain things, whether that really is diving deep into the mental health and counselors in therapy, to process all of those things because it sticks with you and I see it a lot in the office. I see these birth processes stick with moms and it can stick in that negative fashion. If we're not careful. And a lot of times you'll hear the


Unknown Speaker  16:37  

aspect of you would have done things differently or kind of


Unknown Speaker  16:42  

that not knowing what you don't know and being graceful. With yourself in that aspect of birth. And that aspect of dealing with that the unknown that comes with it and how it unfolds and it unfolds differently each and every time to give birth. But you know, I think you and I have been able to use those birth experiences to to then, you know, fuels. This is the birth workers, the birth experiences in their fuels, what they do and how they interact with the birthing community. And so it's kind of along those lines of that birth experience and being graceful with yourself. I mean, I think makes you do that. It makes you be kinder


Unknown Speaker  17:29  

to yourself. Maybe Yeah, yeah, and I think if you're hearing this after you've already given birth and feeling some complicated feelings about like, the coulda, shoulda woulda had I only know and I'm like, you don't know what you don't know. And there's still work that can be done to heal from that birth and move forward in a positive way and not stay in a place of shame or guilt or judging and I think that's what you're saying and I think that's really important is that it's not that you have to have this birth of positive birth experiences if you don't ruin because the reality is like we all I think these are life lessons like whatever you're going through where you look back and you're like you should have done something differently. It's like really important to do that with grace. And to do that with the view the lens of like, I didn't know what I didn't know, but now I know. And since I do know now, I'm going to do the work to heal from that. And then I'm going to share knowledge that I have to help you know anyone else who's willing to listen do it differently if it's whatever it was that occurred for you that you feel like you can impart on somebody you know, to help shift that ripple, right, but you can heal, heal from your experience and then move forward in a positive way. So it's not to judge anyone that didn't know, because you don't know. You don't know. And I think that maybe is the title of this episode.


Unknown Speaker  18:55  

Or stop gumption on yourself. That's my favorite. If I were to write a book,


Unknown Speaker  18:58  

I said


Unknown Speaker  19:00  

this, it would be titled, yeah, don't should on yourself and say God, well, she can't understand the


Unknown Speaker  19:06  

podcast. Yeah, like you should do this or I should have done this. It's like no, if you don't know what you don't know.


Unknown Speaker  19:14  

And I am so careful that I try not to shit on others, too.


Unknown Speaker  19:17  

Right. That's important, especially


Unknown Speaker  19:19  

in our line of work.


Unknown Speaker  19:20  

Yeah, and I think that's how you can help the ripple effect. Help prevent it from either being negative for a long time or improving it and helping it be positive is to not shut on other people. So if someone is sharing their birth experience, or their pregnancy experience or any life experience, if there's a sentence where you start with you should I want your brain to stop and say how else can I say this to be more supportive? Because shitting on yourself or on other people just create shame, because everyone is working with what they got and doing the best they can. So try to reframe that into more supportive language of well, you know, what do you need to help you right now? How can I help support you right now? Or? That's really hard. I'm so sorry, that happened. Like you're doing a great job. Like you can come up with a lot of different ways. Or, if you're offering a suggestion, you could ask like, Would it be helpful if I shared some ideas I had about what helped me instead of saying you should try this thing, you should go here. You know, do maybe they don't want to know. So you can just ask like, Can I share some of these ideas with you or when you're ready, we can talk or whatever, because it doesn't mean you don't have something to help them. It's just understanding that shitting on people. The other thing we're having the ripple effect, is don't dismiss their experience. Right? Try to avoid athletes statements, even yourself self talk here and if you're talking to other people, at least the baby athlete, you're right, at least whatever I leave


Unknown Speaker  21:10  

myself with that I can't I mean, it's a work in progress, like we're all


Unknown Speaker  21:14  

working progress so test silver lining approach, right? So that is a natural way. So with human nature, it's uncomfortable to sit in an uncomfortable spot with somebody when they're feeling those negative emotions. And by bringing this overriding we're trying to make it better so that we ourselves can feel better in the moment versus sitting with the person in there. Like kind of just telling them where they're at, and and just affirm, validate support, and kind of ask how you feel like you can help versus like, pushing how you think you can help on them. But I learned this I think when whenever it was, was young, just about the it just resonated with me and how when people are grieving and I think you can grieve. You can grieve how a bird goes or doesn't go. It does not have to be all roses and butterflies. You know, just like we grieve the loss of a loved one or a pet or friend or whatever, like grief is grief, and we put a silver lining on it. It just dismisses the true experience of that person that's having so of course sober mind positive mindset seems a good, healthy perspective. I'm here for all of that but the person grieving has to sort of get their on their own verses and your own yourself. Because I think a lot of people who go through a heartburn will do it to themselves trying to get to a positive state. And I'm always like, You got to feel it. If you have a yucky experience a complicated birth. It's nice if you're feeling something beautifully. That's real. You're allowed to create. I always tell my clients it's something like you are allowed to grieve what you didn't get out of this birth. That is okay. And you can also still love your baby to pieces and have to be thankful for a happy healthy mom and baby but you can also be upset and greed. What didn't go your way. Both can be true at the same time.


Unknown Speaker  23:13  

Now,


Unknown Speaker  23:15  

the 22 truths, both can be Yeah, at the same time now, and it's hard. It's hard with the birthing community. When sometimes it feels like things are stories can be pushed on you or your story can be dismissed. But that's where I think some of that beauty comes in, in sharing your story in that healthy manner. You know, it's not sharing that birth experience and trying to one up someone else with their birth experience. Or you know that there's unhealthy ways


Unknown Speaker  23:43  

you know, as well too. So


Unknown Speaker  23:49  

I like how you support patients with that though, or clients and then of saying and it's like naming them it's like name the emotions name what you're feeling because it's okay to be angry and upset you know, without I remember that with my with my first with my scenario and I remember going back to work and people asking about it. And I was like man, I do not want to talk about this. Like do not especially to like other moms who didn't have a sister and I could read people of how genuine they were and if I was comfortable in sharing with him like I needed to share and I wanted to share, but I wasn't willing to be vulnerable with everybody with it. So that's another thing too is you know,


Unknown Speaker  24:33  

you can't expect everyone to want to just open up about their birth story at all. You can say something like when you're ready, I'd love to hear whatever you want to share about your birth. And it's not about the story. How are you? How are you doing? How are you feeling? How can I help you and know that if someone wants to share their birth story, they will share it and if you want to make sure they know that you're in a safe place. You could say when you're ready. I'm here to listen and just be a listening non judgmental ear for sharing your birth story like period, like expecting people to share one of the most intimate vulnerable times like willy nilly is bananas. And again, just good etiquette around new moms and understanding that it is nuanced, multifaceted, multi layered, and the biggest thing they need is just support with supportive saving.


Unknown Speaker  25:32  

And if you know that new mom you can you can say those words and they're like I'm here if you need to talk if you need to share you know and kind of being that elephant which can then impact that ripple effect and how they are able to


Unknown Speaker  25:51  

process the burden. Yeah, they're not feeling like everyone around them is you know, shaming or judging because I think people birthers new moms will create an internal dialogue about what people are thinking or saying or judging all by themselves. So if you can just let them know


Unknown Speaker  26:06  

Oh, yeah, exactly the size of internal dialogue. Yeah.


Unknown Speaker  26:10  

And so for the if you're the birthing person, mind, it's important that you work on that internal dialogue and find a healthy place to process. And I think I feel like we did sort of go down this road of like processing the bad experiences and the reason I think that's important and why I think it ends up being a focal point here is because I think the way that you can shift into feeling more positive about your experience, feeling more satisfied and truly feeling empowered is how you process it, how you process it as it's happening. And after it happens, like an allowing space and time and grace to do that. And so, that's where I just don't get hung up on. If you do X, Y and Z you'll have a positive experience. Like no, it's how you feel at every little point along the way, and having the space and time and support to process in your way to say that there's a certain formula for people if they do X, Y, Z, they will have a positive experience, because every person is different, and we all have different needs. Like and if those needs aren't met, that's what creates the negative experience. Or then that negative experience is compounded by not having a safe, healthy place to process afterwards. But just understand my birth impacts but the impacts on the mental, physical and emotional health of a broken person, major, major it matters. It matters how we are supported and how we feel during giving quality of birth. And so I don't know the answer, because I feel like it's so competent, layered but it's like I feel like what we're saying here is that it's support. It's seeking the right kind of care it's you know what the mental kind of prep you're doing the acquiring of things, just to repeat, rewire them hopefully in a better way.


Unknown Speaker  27:58  

Because I didn't want to bring up other things that you may not be aware of parenthood has a wonderful way of bringing up shit that you didn't even know you need to do. 100


Unknown Speaker  28:11  

at birth has the same thing too. I realized so much about myself. And it was it was very eye opening. It was a very, you know, it was an it was an interesting process, but also to processing like you can have this amazing birth and you still want to sit with it and process it and name any emotions or feelings that come up like it can be how everything went just as you want it. I think it's still good to process that to be able to share those stories too. Because sometimes that can get hard when it's it's hard to share your good story when you have somebody around you that has less than positive experiences too. So that's also you know, not to just focus on the negative aspects of just


Unknown Speaker  28:55  

periodic over Yeah, yeah, but


Unknown Speaker  28:59  

birth definitely has. There's a quote I had found so this is an article I found called pregnancy birth, postpartum and breastfeeding, the ripple effect. So it's by Elizabeth Smith in our court down the line United States lactation consultant Association articles. One of the ripple effects of physiological and biological work each part of the journey to parenthood has an impact on the next part. And that is yes, is that segue into parenthood. So the birth definitely had Parenthood has those ways to bring up things about you where you're like, Oh, I


Unknown Speaker  29:36  

didn't know this was


Unknown Speaker  29:39  

going to be triggering or this was going to be an issue or that I was going to need to work on this. But if we can lean into it a bit if we can, what we were saying like the things you were saying what we can do, we can find the supportive we can tell our stories, we can share it, we can be vulnerable with the right type of people. If we can create that first support team, that Postpartum Support team, then you can look at that mental health aspect of it. thing you can process and then that removes that and then because then you're gonna help the kids as well to

Unknown Speaker  0:06  

Find a supportive, we can tell our story, we can share it, we can be vulnerable with the right type of people, if we can create that first support team, that Postpartum Support team and you can look at that mental health aspect of it, then you can process it and then that ripple effect can then use and you're gonna help your kids as well to,


Unknown Speaker  0:24  

you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it can impact you know, the bonding that initial mother baby bonding whether good or bad, you know, that can impact it. Like you said before and pet your nervous system. Familiar relationships like understanding like with your partner, your parents or your if you have any other children or yourself. So it's like how the birth goes, I think, and I don't want it to feel like you're doomed. If you have a negative birth experience. It's just to help you understand the big picture, how it's all interconnected. Right. And I've even witnessed, you know, birthing people have from the outside what looks like a smooth, positive, great experience. And then when we sit with them afterwards, the postpartum follow up when we talk and they share parts of it that they feel like didn't go well, or that they weren't happy with, like, you know, we had someone who had a really fast labor and then a really long pushing stage. And she's like, I feel like I was robbed and like this, that that long, slow, gradual buildup of like she had visualized herself, you know, laboring and doing all the things and then had a really challenging pushing stage and she was like, I feel like I was robbed. And she was so teary talking about it. And she felt bad, like, you know, you're healthy, got to Homburg, you got the baby, like all the things that like she still had these feelings. And that's where we just want to put our arms around and be like, it's okay. You can have those feelings, feelings of it, and by addressing it now you're going to improve the bonding with your brain, you're going to improve your nervous system function, you're going to improve your familiar relationships, like so even if there are aspects of it that aren't great. You allowing yourself time and space to process them is going to help improve all those areas that really, really matter. That are going to help go heavy there for the long haul, right? And the sooner you can address any sort of feeling, you know, yucky complicated feelings and get addressed either with a professional or with a close loved one or someone on your support team. The quicker like, you're gonna feel that like you're gonna be able to kind of address and work through it. Instead of having things that are going to maybe bubble up later on.


Unknown Speaker  2:46  

And that's what I look at too. Sometimes with chiropractic care and the aspect of EDs it's the biomechanical aspect of aches and pains and dealing with aches and pains and practicing dealing with the aches and pains of postpartum and you know, talk about that all day in the office. But it to me it's really so much more than that as well too. And it's really impacting how the nervous system is functioning, how we are processing these things, because as I said before, the Body Keeps the Score up we tend to hold on to this trauma, these things can come out late but later on, so are there ways to release it, let it go to process it as well to in the best way that we can when we're ready as well too. So sometimes there you know, there is a process to that as well. And we have a couple of episodes that we've done before. So we have episode 44 You're not alone with perinatal mental health counselor Shannon, why so I know Rachel, you did that interview with Shannon and that was wonderful. And so I do think counseling and therapy are wonderful ways. And even like birth story collectives. You know, if you do feel so inclined, those are ways so I would definitely check out that episode episode 79. I interviewed Dr. Megan tube and that's embracing the imperfections of motherhood. So talking a little bit about high anxiety and symptoms as messengers in the body. So just giving other resources there as well to to not kind of to listen to and to not leave, you know, folks like high and dry and not to paint this like Oh, birth is gonna it's gonna rock your world and it's gonna be negative like I don't know, I don't want it to come across like that, but it is so transformational and it's really freaking cool how it can transform you and open up your mind. I think my second birth was so transformational. I frickin quit my job, you know, went back to school just because of how eye opening it was. And so I think there's also that beauty aspect of how transformational it can be yet you can. If it can be traumatic or yes, there can be parts that you grieve but that ripple effect to look at that kind of fun ripple effect and how your birth experience then can impact. So many others, you know, bring experiences and positive ways


Unknown Speaker  5:08  

to know Yeah, I think the focus, I mean, aiming for a really positive empowering birth experience, but just knowing that it doesn't look any certain way. It's really how you feel about it. So you might have I mean, we've had many clients who've had lots of interventions and things that came up that were not part of their original quote unquote plan or preferences, but they feel like amazing about so I felt that I worded Yeah, that's honestly what we're trying to say is that there's not like a perfect formula for it's under standing that Burke is transformational, and then it's about what came before you. It's about what will come after you and how you feel through the whole thing matters. I just typed out on our outline, transformed by birth. It's a book I'll link it. I think it would be a great if you want to I listen to it on audio because it's a very long book. But the audio was really great. And it's it's in this vein, and then that's why I kind of want to do the work and kind of see it as this bigger picture type of deal and I want to approach it in a healthy way to set myself up for success. So that I can have the best birth and postpartum as possible. Like that's the goal. That's the goal. That's the goal. The ripple effect. Yay.


Unknown Speaker  6:29  

Any other thoughts you want to add to this my friend?


Unknown Speaker  6:33  

Well, I find that a topic I could talk endlessly about that. I ended up almost like surgeon just circling the same thing. Just saying. Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  6:42  

I just say a different way. Yeah, yeah.


Unknown Speaker  6:46  

It's I mean, I yeah, I think I've said it. I think I've said what I need to say what am i Yeah,


Unknown Speaker  6:54  

no, I feel good. I'm glad. I'm glad we touched on kind of like highs and lows. Just the best. Yeah, like it's yeah, it's all the things but I think that is that key, that transformational process that what came before you and what you know comes after you. Well, thanks for listening, everybody today. We hope you enjoyed the show. Don't forget, check out our show notes with links to everything that we talked about today, but also links to the things that we talked about.