Ep 93: Postpartum support - guest interview what Gigi (postpartum doula) from Ready for Baby

Conversations of a postpartum doula and a perinatal chiropractor.  Today’s episode is a wonderful conversation about postpartum support between Dr. Shannon and Gigi a postpartum doula and host of the Ready for Baby podcast.  They both agree that reaching the postpartum population can be difficult, and they hope to shed some light on ways you can take care of your nervous system as well as respecting your mind/body/spirit during this vulnerable time.  In this episode they chat about:

• Chiropractic care and nervous system function
• Motherhood posture and the stress connection
• Emotions and birth
• Matresence and the transition into motherhood 
• How Dr. Shannon focuses on postpartum chiropractic
• How Gigi supports families with postpartum doula care

Resources:

ICPA 

Nursing posture and its role in sympathetic dominance 

Aligned Birth Podcast - episode 87 - Maternal Stress and Posture: what's the connection? 

How to have an Empowered Birth 

Affirmations and Visualizations for Birth and Postpartum.

Belly Binding

Modem Futura
Modem Futura is your guide to the bold frontiers of tomorrow, where technology,...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 19:58 [Ad] Modem Futura
• 20:45 (Cont.) Ep 93: Postpartum support - guest interview what Gigi (postpartum doula) from Ready for Baby

Transcript

Unknown 0:00

You are listening to the aligned birth Podcast. I'm Dr. Shannon and I'm doing a little intro today for an episode that I recorded recently with a postpartum doula and so this is it's GD answer. She is a postpartum doula does a lot of prenatal education Postpartum Support. She has a podcast ready for baby podcast and and you can find her at a simple home. And this we met virtually through an episode that Rachel and I did and recorded with Caitlin McGraw is from be her village and so, funny enough our village continued to grow for our birth worker support and so we connected with Gigi who has a podcast that's also preparing parents for ready for baby and so she and I sat down and chatted. Specifically be a look specifically about Postpartum Support. And what we're doing here is I just want to share our conversation. I kind of wanted to even title the episode like a conversation between a postpartum doula and a postpartum chiropractor, you know, in that we're talking about ways to support folks in that postpartum time period. It's one of the most vulnerable time periods in a new parent's life and whether it's your first second third you know, it's every postpartum is different and your demands are a little bit different your healing it reserves and resources are a little bit different as well. And so, what we focused on in the episode and what you'll hear here is really how I like to think I did an okay job and I feel like I was all over the place with the show too. But it was just nice to chat with someone else. It's almost like we had this conversation about oh, this is what we wish we knew. We wish postpartum folks knew but my approach to care really looking at nervous system function, seeking chiropractic care during pregnancy and postpartum and how really, chiropractic care can be more than just treating the aches and pains. It's really looking at how the nervous system is functioning and really impacting the physiology of the body. And how chiropractic care can help impact sort of nervous system dysregulation and looking at emotional physical changes that occur. And with Gigi, she and I kind of went into a little bit of muttrah essence that that how your identity changes with motherhood and how she supports that transition and that identity change that happens for everyone that's had a baby so but how that change in identity can contribute to nervous system dysregulation as well too. And then she as a postpartum doula, what are the specific things that she focuses on and she's got some wonderful bodywork sitz bath, belly binding. Nursing help womb massage room rubs and she gave some wonderful nuggets about how she supports families and what they can do in that postpartum time period. She was definitely interested in kind of the motherhood posture and the stress connection. So I know we've done we've got a couple of episodes here. And so in our show notes, I'm going to link the ones that I referenced as well too, but how that posture can really impact how our nervous system is functioning. And it's kind of that two way that posture that forward shoulder the head leaning down carrying baby looking at baby can mimic some sympathetic fight or flight aspects in the body that can turn us into that. However, if we haven't dealt with the stressors of new parenthood as well, then we can already be in that fight or flight and then we put ourselves in that posture it can just escalate a little bit more at the end. It's easier to become chronic at that point. And then she's got some wonderful episodes we even chat a little bit about emotions and birth. So we were kind of all over the place. But it was a wonderful conversation. I'm so so thankful that yeah, that she wanted to chat and we really hope that you learn some new postpartum tools that you can put in your tool belt to support you in your postpartum journey.

Unknown 4:37

Hello, and welcome to the aligned birth podcast. We are so glad you're here. I'm Dr. Shannon, a prenatal chiropractor.

Unknown 4:43

And I'm Rachel a birth doula and childbirth educator and we are the team behind the Alliance for podcast.

Unknown 4:50

Between us we have experienced necessary in Birth of VBAC, hospital births and home birth. Our personal experiences led us to where we are today we share a lot in common.

Unknown 5:00

We are friends from high school who reconnected through our work. We both changed career paths after the birth of our own children. We light up when talking about health and birth and we are both moms to two young boys. This podcast

Unknown 5:13

was created to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all. Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

Unknown 5:27

We believe that when you are aligned and body, mind and your intuition you can conquer anything. We hope you enjoy the episode

Unknown 5:46

All right. Hi, Dr. Shannon, how you doing?

Unknown 5:48

Hi, good. How are you? Gigi?

Unknown 5:51

Good. I Malone at home and just spent the morning having coffee and listening to music by myself. So I'm pretty ready to have a conversation.

Unknown 6:01

Yes. Now you're on West Coast time, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm on East Coast time. So it's like early there and so like, I've like I had my coffee my morning time I had my workout. I've got picked one kid up from slumber party, the other ones outside like we're in the midst of going so it's really nice though, but stuff. So I'm in the Atlanta area, which although it feels like it's Seattle because we have had a ton of rain, a ton of rain. I'm not even lying. So today the sun's out. It's ago but

Unknown 6:34

yeah, I'm very California where it's like 70 degrees right now. And I'm like, I need my jacket. It might be

Unknown 6:43

it was 27 degrees last night. It was I know this is Atlanta, Georgia. This is the south. Yeah. Welcome to the south.

Unknown 6:52

Okay, so tell us like how did you focus with your chiropractic practice? How did you focus on the perinatal period? What got you into Webster and kind of family wellness in general? Yes.

Unknown 7:05

So I am a prenatal chiropractor. in the Atlanta area. And funny story, this is kind of second career for me as well too. So I graduated from university Georgia and I got a biology degree and I worked in the science field for many years, working in labs doing research and I was a research molecular biologist at the CDC for about six years. And then in the midst of working there, I got pregnant with my first and I was not under chiropractic care. I did not know anything about it at all, and it was kind of one of those I use a lot of how my prenatal experience was to help moms and say, hey, it could be something different and it's never it's never like I'm down on myself or like, Gosh, I wish things were different but I just use what I knew then and what I know now and really trying to bring that into the office and so I so I have a podcast as well to my podcast, co host is Rachel she's going we've talked about this so many times at nauseam as far as like my birth story, but I did end up with a cascade of events and ended up with an emergency C section and so it wasn't ideal. It wasn't part of my plan. But that was the cars that I was still at but I also look at it that led me on a journey of being pregnant second time around and saying okay, it didn't necessarily want that again. What can I do differently and I was three six weeks. Of course you wait to like plasmid and your pregnancy just goes so quickly. It's the slowest, fastest time of your life. And I just remember being like, oh my gosh, I'm 36 weeks, but I'm gonna do something do it now. And so I went and found a chiropractor near me who specialized in prenatal Webster certified and I followed her care plan. And I had a huge difference in labor and delivery and I know that yes, second verse are different innately as far as you know, they usually are you're usually not as pregnant as long you were usually a quicker labor and birth I get that but this was like 27 hours, that first one and it was seven hours with the second so it was a lot different. And I was able to have my VBAC and that's what I really wanted to go for was that vaginal birth after cesarean. And so that's when I was like, What's this chiropractic thing? How did that work? And so that really intrigued like my analytical science brain. And then when talking with her, she was like, oh, you should bring the kids in. And I was like, okay, like I you know, they seem fine. Things seem fine. I guess I'll I'll guess I'll bring them in. And my youngest, he was two months old when I finally did come back into the office and he had no more constipation. I didn't realize that he had constipation, but I was like, Oh, I thought it was kind of normal common for babies to not poop as often but this was a serious problem for him that we didn't really really know about. And it's a reflux issues. And then my oldest, the biggest change in him was no more asthmatic tendencies. He would always get a cold every winter. And once we started under care, it was amazing to see that so that's when I was like, Okay, what is this and seeing my chiropractor and how she ran her office and how she interacted with people is kind of like that was what I was searching for. With my science background. I just didn't really know it. And I remember sitting there and asking her and I was like, Do you like what you do? And she was like, yes. What are you thinking? And so yeah, I decided to quit my job and then go back to get my doctor. I don't necessarily recommend that I do. Do say that. I really recommend that. And luckily, my husband was like, so so incredibly supportive. We have family nearby, like all of the things because it takes a village. But it was that part of my story that led me into where I am now. So I've been a chiropractor for five years, and I've owned my own office for four years now. And so literally, it's every day I like I walk in and I kind of I see myself in a lot of the patients, but then I just think of like the impact and this bigger impact that our little stories, our birth stories and our life stories have on us and how you know, sometimes just that little leap of faith is a big is a big there's a big jump to go back to school but that's kind of nutshell. That's a beautiful

Unknown 11:29

story. And I think I honestly I hear that from you know, my chiropractor, my kids chiropractor and other friends that I have that are chiropractors that they get to go and like make change, and like get to root causes, and really fix things. Not that a traditional, you know, primary care can't do that. But it's very different. It's different.

Unknown 11:51

It's just a different lip. And I think that was the thing too, that shipped me I had a different lens, a different perspective. It's not that you know, I deny any of those other routes that I had as far as where I started and having that biology degree and all the research and genetics and that type of thing, but sometimes too, it's just adding another lens, you know, to the picture of of what it means to be healthy. I guess that was a big part of of how I looked at like defining it and knowing to that. Collie I guess the big thing I learned with moms and I'm sure you see the send notice to in that my first pregnancy it was very much okay, I'm going to the OB and I'm going to give birth in a hospital because this is what you do. I didn't I didn't know anything else. I didn't know there were other options that I didn't know to ask. I didn't know that you could ask your doctor questions that weren't yes or no. Or that you could say no to something you know, or that there were other options. And that's a big part. Of the focus in the office to Yes, it's looking at you know, adjusting and balancing pelvis and sacrum and impacting nervous system function and helping mom which can in turn help baby but sometimes it's bigger than that as far as like really expanding that birth support team and really looking at where can you bring more people in? Where can you bring more support in and even if you don't choose those routes, at least you knew and you made an informed decision. And that's, that's a big part. I know you probably deal with that a lot too.

Unknown 13:24

Yes, I'm all about informed decision making and you mentioned nervous system regulation. We were talking about that. A little earlier. And I told you this every guest almost that I have spoken with lately is bringing up. So how do you kind of describe the connection between chiropractic care and what does that even have to do with your nervous system?

Unknown 13:46

Yeah, some in the chiropractic world to the kind of say that we're nervous system doctors, you know, so that's what's one school of thought with it too. Sometimes, you know, there's over 200 Different adjusting techniques which can be good and bad and there's, you know, you go to five different chiropractors you get five different things which can be good and bad because then that gives people a sense of like, well, I don't know what I'm getting, I don't know what to expect. So that's a good and a bad part. But the same thing is true for if you go to any sort of medical fresher, you're gonna get a different benefits, or something like that. And I really try to get my patients to understand, um, the the life of events and how they impact the spine and how the spine is there to support that spinal cord and all of the information that floods the brain and the brain sends all that information out and so I do a little Cairo one on one, I call it in the office. Very, very basic, but to just say, Okay, the reason I'm asking about the big falls and traumas is because those can cause shifts in the spine, and it can impact the nerve signal coming out as well as that signal coming back in I think sometimes don't people don't think about the fact that the brain needs to get that information. It's not just the brain saying do this, do that, do this do that. If the information coming in isn't optimal, isn't great, then we're going to have a not optimal not great output as well. And so yes, it's those big events, but sometimes to have those repetitive tasks, you know, what are we doing day in and day out and motherhood? I feel like motherhood is a repetitive task. You know, you're carrying on one hip typically picking up car seats. Are you working? Are you driving? Do you work in a mouse like how's your posture all of those things can also impact that signal to the brain and then that signal out from the brain. And that's really where I want people to understand that it's more than just the aches and pains, aches and pains is usually what brings people in and I talk about that a lot. But what I hear the most is like, well, now I sleep better. That's the biggest one I hear or my I don't get sick as often, you know, and so those little things kind of show the bigger impact that getting adjusted can have on the nervous system because the nervous system controls all the functions of the body. So I try I tried to do that. I mean it's it's hard for you know, some patients understand that yeah, I want you to, you know, feel better. But again, I'm getting to the function of the body and can we function better?

Unknown 16:20

So if the little repetitive tasks of your day to date or big impacts like birth, or a big fall or a car accident or something like that, it's messing up the flow and not allowing the nervous system to do what it's supposed to be doing and operating kind of at an optimal

Unknown 16:37

level. And a lot of times people will and this was me, you know, I didn't grow up adjusted, but once I did, and I had some pretty intense postpartum, like hip pain. I'm a runner. I love to run and that was a pretty big issue. And I remember getting adjusted being like, Oh, well. The hip pain has gone on away and now I function better like I didn't realize that how I was functioning wasn't necessarily optimal. Does that make sense? Like and I think sometimes people realize they'll be like, Oh, I didn't know that I was gonna like this or that my posture was this bad or that? All of these little things. I thought this was just how I was or how it was going to be. And then when I add in with my mom's I go over like, what are the specifics we're looking at with Webster technique. So yes, that's kind of like general population and how I go over chiropractic care but with Webster technique, it is very specific. We work on a bone muscle and ligament on the posterior side of the patient bone muscle ligament on the anterior soft eye. And again, that's really looking at the pelvis and sacral alignment, but all the nerves that come out from lumbar spine, pelvis and sacrum give rise to motor function sensation of everything in the lower part of the body and that includes your uterus as well. And really looking at helping mom's nervous system which can then in turn impact, like a calming aspect as well too, because then there you get the aspect, the vagus nerve. I don't know if anybody has talked about vagus nerve on on any episodes, but vagus nerve is my favorite, and it's named as the wanderer because it's one of the longest nerves in the body not the longest, but as far as cranial nerve it is, so it's a cranial nerve comes from the base of the skull and then wraps around and it goes to like voice box, larynx, heart, lungs, it actually innervates part of the digestive tract. And so when you think about the gut feeling and those type of things, that's like vagus nerve communicating, so that's where we get a lot of that input from stomach and digestive organs up to the brain. And so vagus nerve regulation can really help impact, like a calming sense and a calming aspect of the garden. There's lots of ways to impact the vagus nerve breathing, gargling yelling like all of the fun things, but I like to also think of chiropractic care, and that if we're really assessing that top on the neck, that's where a vagus nerve is necessarily coming out, but very, very close to those adjustments can really impact how vagus nerve functions and how the nervous system functions.

Unknown 19:18

That's interesting. I read something about how it was a kind of a case for nervous system regulation. And they were saying it was a chiropractor, and they were saying there's before you get it, and it could be therapy, it could be chiropractic adjustment, but before you really get into regulating your nervous system, that you have to start with the vagus nerve and adjusting your neck and it's work as well. If you aren't physically like you could go to therapy, you could fix like meditation, you could do all that stuff, but if you're not fixing your physical body, it's not gonna work as well as it could,

Unknown 19:56

you know, and that goes in the same frame of I can adjust people all day long. But again, if we are eating crappy foods, then we are going to be made of crap. I mean, I put that lightly, but like, it really is true. I remember learning that in school, and I was like, well, that is true. Like, you don't really think about it. And so it's kind of in the same realm of things. Like, it's why I don't like this compasses, like, kind of like is going to cure everything. And that's all you need to do. It's like no, it's a mash up of things because yes, some people do need that mental health aspect. But if we can impact vagus nerve as well, that twofold combination can be huge for that patient. And then if we can start just drinking more water and eating more fruits and vegetables, what a difference that can make and how your body holds the adjustment, and how your body heals and restores. I mean, that definitely makes sense though.

Unknown 20:47

It's a piece of the puzzle. And that's overwhelming thinking about you're pregnant, you're postpartum and you're you don't have enough like brainpower like put this puzzle piece like in anything like it, you can't solve anything. If you're exhausted. You're not eating, you know, nourishing foods. You're not drinking enough water, you're nursing and you're not drinking enough water or eating. You're just like being drained

Unknown 21:16

everything feels exhausted. And that's a little bit of that. What I look at with my new moms and a lot of times that posture of new motherhood, I know that's like on our list of things to talk about. So we could we could get to it later. But yeah, that chronic fatigue and that's I think that's the big thing I see. So with, and it makes sense. I mean, you just went through a huge transformational process. And then not only are you supposed to heal and rest but then you've got to keep this little being or in your case two little beings at once alive and well in bed. And so it is exhausting. And that that's where I love my I really do focus. I mean, I focus on the prenatal period, but I guess it's like perinatal all around it because that postpartum time is so vulnerable. I find that moms are really really gung ho with chiropractic care with pregnancy. It's like they've got their checklist and like, Okay, I've got my doula. I feel good over here. I've had my childbirth education classes. My OB feels me and understands me like they they just go through those things. And then postpartum is a very hard time to connect with moms. It's hard to get out of that house. It's hard to do anything it's hard to plan anything and but it's such a vulnerable time when you actually need those things. You need the help then so I'm sure you you see that too with like the postpartum doula aspects of things and that's I really would love for you to chat about some of that too. Because that's, I feel like that's a hard population to reach. And it's a hard population to really encourage and say, Hey, do these things to help you take care of yourself, you know, and really help that's what I'm looking at with care is like I can really help regulate the nervous system and I'll notice in my mom's so I do a couple of, I mean, like I said, every office is different. I have a couple nervous system scans that I do, and it gives us a good snapshot of what's going on with the nervous system. So once a temperature scan and once like a motor scan, so it gives me a look at the autonomic part of the nervous system. And so with that, I've looked at that scan sometimes and some moms I can see you know what we're regulating? Well, you're getting some sleep your nervous system does not look as stressed as I would normally see in postpartum and other moms. I look at the scans and I take into account symptoms as well too, but it's like I think you need more rest. I think we're pushing too hard, you know, and whatever that may look like it may not be the right exercising it may be that you went and stood at, you know, an event for too long. It's little things that can be too much. It's not going to be like that forever, but just giving yourself that grace and that time to rest and heal. That seems it's just so vulnerable and hard.

Unknown 24:04

Yeah, in the US we think of postpartum as six weeks. And it's a battle really with my clients to convince them that during the like not it's not just six weeks, but even during that time, to not go and do things. Don't go out to a big party. Don't go on a big long walk when you're one week postpartum. Your body is really not ready for that. And you need that time to heal but it's hard to convince people that when we live in a culture that's like six weeks in your mind, bounce back round, you know, when people don't even have six weeks at home, some people at home and to go slow into it. Some people want to get back to exercise right away. Some people want to they have other kids, they don't have a choice. They have to pick up their other kids they have to go and drive them to school but as much as you can use those resources, and I know Rachel is about that too, like less resources instead of buying things to make the problems of postpartum easier. Let's buy services, or leverage the care that we do have. So if you do have a big family, ask them to bring you food. Ask them to come over and take care of their kids to school for a week or two, or longer if they can ask them to, you know, walk your other kids around the block or take them to soccer practice so that you can really focus on making that like first 40 days I think is like a bare minimum of you're not doing a lot of stuff for those early days. But if you don't have that ask people to invest in your postpartum doula, your birth doula, your chiropractic care, your pelvic floor PT, those things that are going to help you a lactation consultant, if that's not covered by your insurance to make your healing, optimal. We're looking at buy me a good stroller, buy me a nice crib. It's not to say that those things aren't important. But a stroller is not going to heal your body. about any beautiful crib is not going to fix your postpartum experience. You know, I don't think anybody's gonna be like I have the best crib I have the best store and it made my postpartum experience. Yeah, I haven't heard that one. It could be like a fling or like a baby carrier to help you like bond with your baby. But most of the time it's going to be food. It's going to be you know, having someone come in and clean your house or watch your kids. That is and that's a big part of my job as a doula getting in there early enough to turn off that you know, byebye baby target Amazon impulse, adding to the baby registry and stopping as much as I can. I mean, we need things for babies. But reframing their mindset to say, you know, like this week, I met with a client and we were talking about what does she need to do and get? And she was like, I don't know, I was thinking about getting another carrier and I said okay, we need to actually book a chiropractor appointment and we need to book a therapy appointment. More important, right? It is hard when you're going on social media, and hearing you know, I got this beautiful baby cover but that's not to say that a baby cover can't be beautiful and that you shouldn't spend money on those things. But those things aren't going to help you he'll

Unknown 27:46

also be focusing. Yeah, it's also focusing on on those and I think you kind of mentioned it as far as I tried to get moms to think about that postpartum time period, even while we're pregnant. Because sometimes if we're waiting until it happens, that can sometimes be it's not too late. I don't like to say that but it can be more stressful and so and I know my two postpartum were vastly different. I mean, my first like I said that emergency cesarean i It was a cluster I just I lost I felt like I lost me in the whole process of everything and all I want I just didn't know what to do with the baby The baby's crying, and I ended up going back to work at four weeks. And it was like because I was just, I needed the this I was like, Who am I I needed that normalcy again, but I was not healing you know, and I really didn't take the time to look at them plan that postpartum time period and come in with the realistic expectations. It doesn't have to be dark and dreary. But you also need to know that Rachel I just did an episode on like holding two truths. It's like it can be joyful and it can be scary and terrifying at the same time, and understanding and being a little bit realistic with it. And so I know my second time around, I took the full 12 weeks off. I put the older kid back in daycare and had kept his normal routine. And I would just sit with my baby like and it was so different and so much more healing, and it was that slower pace and I do think society doesn't really honor that slower pace.  I think we're starting to we're starting to talk about it. But doing it and talking about are two different things because still social media, they'll talk about it, but it's it's like glamorized differently. I don't know. I have a love hate relationship with social media.

Unknown 0:17

And it is, I mean, some people it is circumstances that they don't have family around. They don't. But the services and it is a little bit harder than a little bit. It's a lot harder than to get that but there are a lot of people that can do it. But they're focusing their time on their nursery. They're focusing their time on in the early days, like while they're pregnant. Let's get a feeding class. If you're planning on breastfeeding, you know, just feeding if you're planning on bottle feeding, no matter how you're planning on pumping, you need to learn about that before you have a baby. Taking a feeding class should be standard with patient consultants. I think that that should be considered everybody does it. If you are bottle feeding, you know, you need to learn how to safely bottle feed covers and you know, many many years ago we were able to just rely on our parents teaching us but there's so much research now about changing the way that we bottle feed and changing the way we care for babies that sometimes it's not reliable to expect you know your mom or dad or your aunts the way that it used to be

Unknown 1:28

and what worked for them may not work for you, your baby had made to have a different latch. I see a lot of latch issues and the newborns that I work with so so we need to know what's good latch

Unknown 1:37

is and we have a lactation consultant that we know accepts our insurance if that's how we're doing it. We need to have that ready. We need to have a pelvic floor PT that we know can serve us because we're expecting the pelvic floor healing to be an important part of healing. But some people don't even know what that was. Some people might get six weeks they start healing and that's it and that they just accept incontinence and pelvic floor pain and pain during sex and that's normal now. That's just how it is to have a baby when that's not normal. And it's the same thing with chiropractic care that some people just accept things they accept their babies having, you know, really severe reflux. They accept their baby feeling gassy, and there's a lot of things that you can do with that, you know, my one of my twins had, he was he was at the bottom he was Baby A and he had a lot of hip issues. And you know, the the his pediatrician wasn't like, this is terrible. They weren't urging me to go and get care but I thought like this isn't normal. And we did we still do chiropractic care, PT, all of these things that make a big difference that maybe if he started walking really late or had issues when he was walking, we would have been like, Oh, this is just how it is instead of like you said it can be a lot better if we can go and seek those services out. I think a doula for the perinatal period of birth doula and a postpartum doula is in conjunction with like a midwife and OB a really good starting point because they're going to tell you about these things. Most of my clients don't know about Webster. Most of my clients don't know about acupuncture for induction, like these things that I can say, Hey, did you know that instead of getting induced at the hospital if that's not your vibe, you can start doing induction acupuncture? That's something that we could add like,

Unknown 3:41

I remember doing that with my with my first I was paint mine was painful, you know, and my first I think I had I had a lot of fear. And so and that's another episode. And that Rachel and I are going to talk about soon is that, that fear and emotions surrounding birth. And I think one big way to combat those things though, is that support team that you have you know, and so looking at that doula and really in childbirth education, like I have these like pillars of the support team that I look at, and that's one thing I absolutely love and you probably get excited about this too. When you have clients or patients come to you and then they get then get to expand that referral, like their little network, and you see them get the support and then and everybody's support is different. I have some people if we've had a history of anxiety tendencies in life, I need to know that in the exam, because this could present itself with pregnancy. It may not but it very well could because that is a very transformational time. Yeah. So we talk about these things in the office. Sometimes people don't think about that with chiropractic care, and I'm like, Yes, I'm looking at structure and function of the body and I'm gonna adjust the spine but I look at it so much more than that. And it's the same thing I think with like that doula aspect or midwife like it can be so much more than that, because you could just branch out and see oh, wow, look at all these support services that you have that you may not hear about. I'm hoping you hear about more and the traditional OB sense. I'm still running into some hiccups with providers in the area of pediatricians and OBS as far as like oh, don't do this. It doesn't work, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, stay in your lane. But I'm really expanding that referral source. And when you see someone that is fully supported, it's really awesome and doesn't mean it's going to be you know, sunshine and rainbows and unicorns. Like it can still be tough. But you have you have that, like you have like a roadmap a little bit, I guess at that point to just kind of say, and that's what I like to think that I help patients with too. It's like, okay, we have a plan. Now we have this roadmap and we can go down this way, this way. This way. If we need to. And just have those things lined up.

Unknown 6:01

Yes, I have you talked about fear. I have a really good episode. My podcast with some with two amazing birth, doulas that are local to me, talking about changing your fears during pregnancy and doing visualizations and affirmations to my target because a lot of my clients are I'm kind of that type a person and I connect really well with those types of clients that are drawn to me that I get those tips. We have to during our prenatal meetings, we really have to unpack what I'm here for you and it might be we watched a video of somebody who, you know, had a traumatic thing that happened to them during pregnancy, and now it's sitting there and we have to reframe that. Okay, yes, that is a possibility. But what are the things that we're going to do? To make that less likely to happen? And that's where informed consent comes in and having an advocate. If you know you're, I think everybody deserves an advocate during pregnancy and postpartum but especially if you're you know, part of a vulnerable population or your OB you feel that they're not respecting you and listening to you after the important thing to have to navigate. And also, like I said, doing affirmations, saying them early on, it's not something that happens just that you like, print out some cute affirmation cards and put them on the wall during your birth. You need to be working on that. It is mind and body during pregnancy because I think birth and postpartum is mental. It's physical. It's really mental. I think of nursing. If you're kind of a about nursing, and you don't have any expectations of what that's going to be like what are you going to do when you realize this is every hour to two hours to three hours for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks? You know, if you're told, Oh, your baby's going to eat every two to three hours for the first few days and then you'll get on a schedule that's not realistic for a baby. So you need to know about that so that mentally you can prepare. All right. I'm signing up for this. This is what I want to do. This is important to me for all of these reasons. So I'm going to get my brain ready my mind ready for that. But also I'm going to set up nursing baskets. I'm going to talk to my partner and get them on board. I'm gonna have my friends and family come over and support me and bring me food and making snacks so that when I'm really mad about having to nurse at 2am I have food. And I have oh

Unknown 8:34

that was lovingly prepared for someone else, you know by someone else. Yes. Yeah. So no it's it is I mean, I love everything that you mentioned, though, and especially that you have those episodes with the the emotions with birth because I I see that too with the moms in office and that's even yes with my adjustments, my intention to and what I'm looking at is like you know, pelvis sacral core suggesting you know, all bones well not all the bones in the spine but everything that needs to be adjusted, including neck even though I always had people to like oh, I just want you know, Webster I just want pelvis and sacrum and I'm like everything in the body is connected. It's not you know it is Head, shoulders, knees and toes. But it's you know, it's not the neck bones connected to the hippo because really is like everything's connected. And I look at it to as it could be chiropractic care can be that component for addressing some of those fears and emotions. That can get trapped in the body. I mean, not to go you know, super super deep, but we do store things in our body we have I mean that ask anybody who got it this way you hold your tension your shoulders and stuff like where do you hold the tension your body and it's still there and how can we release it and so it's all those things. It's talking about it with the doula being comforted there. It's getting mental health support if you need it. It's doing all of the things that are within your reason. And again, everybody's support team looks different. So not to say everybody's has to look the same. But I do think of chiropractic care as one aspect of really impacting that emotional component of things too.

Unknown 10:16

Yeah, yeah. If I can't convince my clients to go to a chiropractor, postpartum and I get it because with my first I was getting chiropractic care during my pregnancy, but after I was like, I'm just hanging out at home. I mean, I was nursing I was, you know, doing stuff, but I was like, I'm just at home, I'm not doing anything. And I did wait until I see a lot with my clients that like 10 pound mark with their baby where you're like, oh my god, I'm holding a 10 pound weight all day long. And I started getting I was like, Okay, now I need to go and get adjusted. So I empathize. I've been there. If I can't get someone to go to a chiropractor, I talk a lot about like rubs, massaging your stomach, no matter how you deliver your baby because I don't think we connect with our kind of womb space, enough postpartum. I talked about massaging for digestion, just for like healing in general. It can you can feel really uncomfortable in your stomach area, and incision care. We don't talk about incision care enough in the United States and how to, you know, really make sure that you're healing the issues that can come from not taking care of your incision are countless, right, so there's so

Unknown 11:33

many journals told to kind of just leave it alone. I feel like it's kind of like no, it's just gonna heal on its own, and even some of the pelvic floor PTs in the area that I follow and work with and stuff. They've got amazing things and little stretches and exercises and things you can do for incision care, you know, especially with, like, post cesarean births. So that's huge.

Unknown 11:55

Yeah, you have to take care of yeah, if you have a C section, surgical birth, you got to take care of your incision. So we talk about doing that belly binding like oblonga body work. That's a big part of my aspect. Again, all doulas are going to be doing different things right? From things but I try with every client within the first few days that I'm there. We talked about massaging your womb space. We talk about pulling the weight off of your pelvic floor, whether that's through a bind or just like a move of like, physically lifting and like kind of giving your pelvic floor a break. Some people do like the waist binders not like unlike the big like like boning ones where it's really tight right right now like

Unknown 12:38

of course it still stuck. Yeah, of course it

Unknown 12:40

Yeah. Like a light one or belly burning. But that's a big part of the healing that, like you said, the memories and your trauma can get released stored, like you said, some people storing it in their shoulders. A lot of people for birth are storing it in their hips. Pelvis, yeah, your pelvis and your sacrum into the air and when we go into and I kind of give them a warning, I'm like if you're starting to massage yourself, especially if you're like put yourself in the shower you can bring up a lot right? Because you're realizing it might be birth trauma might be something with your pregnancy, it might be something completely unrelated. But doing hip stretches and womb rubs can bring up a lot of feelings.

Unknown 13:27

That so as muscle which is a low back muscle actually comes around and inserts in on the hip. And it's what connects the hips to the body, the mainly flexion you know, hip flexion that's my favorite muscle and it's one of the ones that we work on with Webster technique but it holds a lot. Why is it because it holds so much emotion and trauma. You would think that it would be it would be my favorite. Now, I just I think it's really pretty and how freakin strong is that? You know, it keeps your hips attached to your body. I don't know that's pretty hardcore.

Unknown 14:03

I just stayed muscle so how do you work on that for pregnancy and postpartum like what are you doing with that muscle?

Unknown 14:11

So with so part of Webster so when I'm working with posterior side of patient, I'm really working with pelvis and sacral alignment, working on piriformis muscle which is also like almost like a glute muscle kind of deep does internal external rotation of the hip. That one gets really angry as well too. It's not my favorite muscle. Mine's always angry because I'm a runner, but it's

Unknown 14:37

I like it. You say it's angry.

Unknown 14:39

I use these terms on novena like oh, this muscle very angry. Like I tried to keep it in, in layman's terms here. And then we work on sacred tuberous ligament as well which is really kind of close to six bones. And then when we flip over and patients laying on their back, that's where we can work on pubic bone, lightening crotch all of those fun things are pubic symphysis dysfunction and, but that's where I also work on psoas muscle, and then round ligament as well. So those are all the ones that we're really working with. And it's yeah, it's doing specific things to help stretch it. And I really love spinning babies as well and thinking about that she's got some wonderful so as release stretches that I'll go over with patients in the office to things that they can do at home. And then mile circuit is another really good thing I recommend for moms. Just other ways to stretch because it's hard, you can't stretch how you normally would because now you've got you know, as the belly grows, it's really like, well, you know, you can't do some of those stretches. So it's finding other ways and other ways that don't compromise the spine or compromise the other muscles in the body that can be you know, kind of that difficult part. But yeah, so as muscles, one that we focus on, and you know, it's funny, I work on so as muscle, pretty much everybody in the office and a lot of times do they don't know, you know, I mean, obviously I'm telling you know what we're working on, but I had just read an article too and looking at I looked at a lot with like psychosomatic pain as well too. So yes, there can be Yes, you had a car accident and this is where our pain is coming from type of thing. But there can also be what we just talked about that emotional component of, of some of the pain symptoms that we have. And sometimes in the office, it's digging a little bit deeper to try to figure out and you probably do this with the doula worker when you're talking to your clients and kind of getting an idea of okay, what resources you know, Where's this coming from? Where How can we help with any of these fears that we have or things the emotions that are coming up? Because birth has a beautiful way of bringing up lots of things

Unknown 16:53

postpartum and having little kids it brings up a lot of stuff.

Unknown 16:57

Parenting, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Now I want to know more about the belly binding and what you do there and there was something else I don't know how to pronounce it. What's the body work that you do? Avianca? Bianca. Okay, so, I want to know more about that.

Unknown 17:15

Yes. Okay. So, I do oblonga body work, which is an Ayurvedic postnatal massage. It can be all of the time. It is not like a full blown massage. I am not a massage therapist, but it is a lot about circulation. And coming from the your Vedic kind of ancient approaches we postpartum have a lot of coldness. And then Lucia is out of alignment. And that kind of reveals itself differently in different cultures, even between Avianca and Vancouver really by name. But with Ayurveda, there's cold we need to bring warm so we use warming oil that might be depends on the person and kind of what they like. But a lot of times a base warming oil is sesame. Okay, so we do a lot of circulation work. It's different than normal detox or Avianca can be considered a detox, but we're not really detoxing postpartum, unless you had a lot of interventions and a lot of medical, you know, tools and medicines and things that were

Unknown 18:20

used fluids everything Yeah, yeah. So we

Unknown 18:23

are getting circulation and bringing warmth back to the whole body. And it is a nice way to just have somebody else care for your body. I think postpartum no matter how you're feeding your baby, no matter how you're caring for your baby, you're giving all day long. And I think of one of the beautiful way to receive Yeah, nice way to receive with like nothing attached to it. I'm just giving and take it you know, and that's it. They get okay beautiful. They get one like a scalp massage and facial and I talk during that because

Unknown 19:05

usually towards the end of during the middle

Unknown 19:06

of the body work. It's nice and calm. But we're talking about your pelvic floor connects to your jaw connected to you know, how do

Unknown 19:16

we diaphragm abdominal muscles, talking about deep

Unknown 19:19

breathing and different breathing methods if it's like alternative nostril breathing if it's, you know, let's look at how we're breathing to protect our pelvic floor and to protect you know, just also with oxytocin and milk production. It's all connected. It's all connected. So, I do yoga, and that really is tied into the first 40 days approach. So the first six weeks if I have a postpartum client that wants it and some people just want them that way. And then for the baby who's already binding, it's there's a lot of different cultures doing binding so Vancouver is Malaysian. And this again goes ties into that first 40 days first 100 days of really loving on your body. Postpartum. And we do a will rub. We talk about two earrings for your kind of stomach and just your body in general. And then the binding is done as early as we can, you know, I like to get in there within the first week. And you do it I teach people how to do it so that they can keep doing it for the first six weeks at least. But I do have clients that have hip issues have pelvic floor issues. They're seeing a PF PT, this is not a treatment, but this is kind of like an add on to make them feel more supported. So the bind goes from all the way down from your hips up to your ribs. And I actually think the company that I do it through I think that we might have somebody out in Atlanta. Yeah, next week, but you are wrapping and it's not tight. It's not meant to like help you lose

Unknown 21:00

weight. It's not constricting like you can breathe deeply. Yeah, it's in a very light.

Unknown 21:04

Like some cultures have a really heavy woven fabric. It's not going to be worn. As long as white fabric can be worn. Some of my clients are doing 24 hours and we're doing 48 hours. Depends on how much spit up they get. On their wrap and how you feel how much you know they're having postpartum sweats, how comfortable keep it on, but it's meant to

Unknown 21:26

kind of first decrease the length of your lochia we shouldn't be having bleeding for six to eight weeks even though that is kind of accepted here.

Unknown 21:37

Prefer it's not that long. And most of my clients are dead within two weeks of waiting. If they're taking it easy and listening to their body. They're not moving very long. And if you're having something like diastasis recti it's bringing those muscles in again, not a treatment.

Unknown 21:54

But no but if that support guy it sounds so beautiful and supportive, though.

Unknown 21:59

Yeah. And it's in between. Most of the time a PF PT isn't going to see used until the six week mark. They can't do internal work for the first six weeks. So I think of myself as kind of a bridge until you see a specialist where we're bringing in those muscles we're talking about how are you getting out of bed? How are you sitting up? What's your position when you're nursing? How are you picking up your other kids? How are you putting your baby into their bassinet. And that's all of that is connected. Your muscles are not there. They're not strong enough to just bounce back and do things and then lift your babies up and go on long walks. So this really brings those upper muscles together and I teach people to look for maybe coning maybe for really deep spacing between their abs. And what should that look like closer to six weeks. I want everybody to see a PFP T but what should you really be looking for? And then for the pelvic floor, it's all lifting. Most people describe it as kind of like a weight lifted. your pelvic floor has been doing all the heavy lifting, holding your baby plus all of your organs for nine months. It needs a break and key goals aren't going to get you there. So it's really lifting getting your pelvic floor a break along with other you know breathing techniques, the bind room rub we're trying to just get your body to heal your organs need to get back to their original homes. And until you can see a specialist

Unknown 23:32

or wellness say even while it sounds very much that you're also trying to bring you know calmness to the nervous system as well. You know and I we get stuck in that. Sometimes we get stuck in that fight or flight and another thing too it's never that we're trying to alleviate all stress, right you're gonna have stressors in life, but can we have a healthy response to a stress can we adapt to stressors Well, and that's where that nervous system regulation comes in. And what you're saying is also part of those ways like all of that calming. I love alternate nasal breathing. I did a I spoke at a women's retreat last year and I did all about breath work and how that can impact nervous system and so I gave like the whole okay vagus nerve is actually impacted with this and how all of that works. But I did the alternate nasal breathing and I had everybody do it and it was it's just so fun to see how some people love it and some people really hated it or some people realize that they couldn't breathe out of their you know right nostril. So there was a lot. You learn a lot of things but I love I love that you mentioned all those little pieces and that's like such beautiful things that you can do at home that's not super invasive. It doesn't take a lot. You know, it's just very It's very calming which is what you need.

Unknown 24:55

Yeah, needs to be doable. And that's funny. You're talking about alternate nostril breathing. And I it's when my kids are like really in the thick of their tantrums, like they're, they're like unreachable. Usually what we do now and one of my other kids will grab it we have like an ice roller and we like roll them try to calm them out of that. And then we do alternate nostril breathing and it's fine to do it my twins do it before bed. Very happy little babies but

Unknown 25:19

I love it. You can do I had another one I had. Do my people do at the event I learned from one of my favorite yoga instructors here and we call it she calls it Bumblebee breathing. So where you'll plug your ears and you put your hands up here and you'll hum really loud so your ears are plugged and you hear it and it's like it almost sounds like it sounds like a bumblebee or like a vacuum aspect or something like that and that can be very common because that can impact nervous system and like impact vagus nerve because it's the ear. I usually give that too because I've worked with a lot of kids too and sometimes kids on sensory processing or aspects of those type of things and just needing a little bit extra will go through and do like the bumblebee reading but I love that you do that with the kiddos.

Unknown 26:07

I'm gonna try because I do think a lot of the skills that you're learning to regulate and to care for your body, if that's going to the chiropractor if that's, you know, eating healthy, whatever you're doing, you're passing that on to your kids and my kids see me do things like that. And I want them to kind of learn how to incorporate what they like not all of it, but what they like and what serves them throughout their day.

Unknown 26:33

Exactly. I know they're just little sponges too. They're soaking up all of our goodness okay. Were there other things that? Oh, yeah, we can go into posture because well, and it's a good segue because we just talked about a little bit of it, but that again, that postpartum period, it's hard to reach moms and you mentioned it too. It's like that 10 pound baby mark where some of those aches and pains start to come into play and it makes sense because we're in this position so much so that shoulders rounded head coming down, you know, looking and gazing at baby which are all wonderful and amazing things that you want to do. But if we're not really opening up, chest and shoulders, it can impact our nervous system. And so when you think about it, you've got parasympathetic and sympathetic parts of your nervous system. This is very basic, but parasympathetic is that rest and digest. That's what we really want. That's the healing aspect of things and sympathetic, which is wonderful and serves a purpose that's that fight or flight you know, away from danger. But when you are say you are running from a bear, I always kind of use that thing like you want to, you might it's kind of like that fetal position aspect of things and you start to sweat and pupils dilate and you start to breathe faster. You start to your heart starts to beat that's all vagus nerve as well, controlling all of that. But what can happen is if even if we're not in a stressful situation, but we're in that motherhood nursing posture, that posture is in mimicking what the nervous system would be experiencing if we were running from some sort of danger. So it's when we have those rounded shoulders, because that sympathetic nervous system lives in that thoracic spine. And so, if we are constantly in that posture, then we've compromised that area of the spine. And then that's where sometimes you can get that what we call sympathetic dominance within just from a nursing aspect of things. And yes, it's there's, you know, there's stretches you can do there's things and I go over a lot of those things with moms as well. But I also want to make sure that we have proper motion of the spine in those segments as well too. And so I've seen a lot of moms where we have a better stress response and adaptation, but we have a better nursing experience. as well. Because a if we're stressed, it's really hard to make milk, you know, and so and the easy thing to say is we'll just be so stressed right? So it's kind of like it's how do we do that? Right? And so that's where I think of, yes, I think inadvertently, I'm not gonna just the mom and then BAM or milk production increases because I adjusted, you know, T six, it's not that but it's like, that's where the sympathetic part of the nervous system is. Do we have proper motion is parasympathetic nervous system engaged because you can't heal and run from a bear at the same time. So if we're stuck in that mode of sympathetic dominance, it's really hard to heal. And then it's really hard to adapt to stressors and then it's really hard to make milk

You don't like it's all of that together.

Unknown 0:05

That's so beautiful. I have never heard that about the posture of nursing kind of mimicking that.

Unknown 0:12

It is there's, it's tart. So I and there's a magazine that I love pathways to family wellness. And so it's a chiropractic based magazine, it's put out by the International chiropractic Pediatric Association. So the icpa and they are the organization that does lots of pediatric chiropractic training, but that's where you learn your Webster certification as a chiropractor as well and so they put out a quarterly magazine and they had a beautiful article in there. And it was about the sympathetic dominance, so I'll send it to you soon at least put it in the show notes for people if they want to kind of go read it and have it's way better than what I just said. So it's really really good I'm sure yours is much more like accessible.

Unknown 0:57

So the adjustments, but also breathwork and it is hard to get out of that kind of fight or flight and I think especially for the people that are more anxious, like you mentioned earlier, I am like that and I like thrive on being in that and it's hard to be like just it's adrenal fatigue a little bit. No, I'm the same way I thrive in that too. We will cocktails all day to try to heal myself, but it's a lot of stuff mixed in. But how do you think we can mix with the adjustments? How do we with the posture during nursing fix that are we like in the middle of a nursing session session adjusting, making sure we're not in that position? Will that kind of prevent it? Or is it a lot more steps to it? There's that it's, you know, I used to use a lot of pillows and I would try to like prop the baby and have the baby like up to here because I would be working on my computer or whatnot. And so I was like, I didn't wanna have to be like this too much. And so there's that aspect. It's I loved sideline nursing. I felt like I wasn't as compromised there. And then I could move and open up my chest and those types of things. Not everybody likes that but I love sideline. There's definitely other nursing postures even like the football hold can sometimes be better obviously we switch you know to each side, even bottle feeding you switch. I like to switch to each side. Not only for parental whoever's holding baby feeding baby biomechanics, but baby needs to turn head to both sides as well. But I'm using a stool can be really good to get your you know your feet up on the stool that can really help obviously you know, if we're vertically challenged or we have height things you know, that can help as well.

Unknown 2:49

I try to because usually after baby is fed, baby, you know, depending upon age, they're really happy. You know, typically, what's their deal was a reflux or something so they're either like fell asleep, or they're like really happy and ready to go and maybe like wants to play or something like that. And so that's a good time to like, play with your baby, but also lay like flat on your back and open up and like goalposts the arms and really open up the chest and it's literally as simple. It's just laying flat on your back. I love a foam roller things to really work out the muscles along the back as well too. So those are some of the things shoulder roll, like up back and down. It's like keeping that motion and knowing okay, if we are going to be in that position, what are those stretches and things that you know you can do to kind of combat that.

Unknown 3:40

That's beautiful.

Unknown 3:42

Okay, do you have any other questions for me?

Unknown 3:46

I'm looking through, Oh, what about my trust sense and I know I want to go into Yeah, just even going into like that postpartum because you touched a little bit on how what you do with postpartum doula work, but I want to go into and I love sitz baths.

Unknown 4:06

But I want to go into that mental aspect as well to that component and how you kind of helping it's it is easy to lose yourself a bit and becoming a mom. So what are some of the things or resources or have you helped with that transition and that muttrah essence? Yes, so for my trust sins, it's hard because everybody's doing it differently. And I really truly think we are not prepared for it.

Unknown 4:36

And I not only as a doula, but as like a sister, a friend, a family member, I try very hard to like if people around me are considering getting pregnant. I am like, Okay, I just want you to be prepared. I want you to know, so some of the things that come up are during pre kids, you had a lot of free time.

Unknown 4:58

You know, that's gone now just running into go to the store or running to drop and like jump out of the car. To get a cup of coffee or like running into the store to grab takeout that's gone. And the time that you had to be in rest and digest is a lot smaller. And when we are able to especially those first six weeks, I tell people I don't like my I mean I'm a clean freak. I don't want my house to be dirty, but during postpartum leave the dishes there for a few hours. You know, don't fold the baby laundry just pull it out and put back on your baby. You don't need to have the perfect space. If that is something that stresses you out. Ask a family or member or a friend to do it. Ask you know hire somebody if that's you know, you don't have any friends or family nearby. Have somebody come and do that if it bugs you. If seeing a container of dirty laundry is gonna drive you nuts all day as somebody who start a load of laundry for you have a ticket system before they can come into the house. You know, so a big part of if you're not prepared for that.

Unknown 6:05

Loss of your free time to just binge watch shows on Netflix. Or to just try a new recipe. If you love to cook or the like spur of the moment reorganize your closet that's gone.

Unknown 6:18

I think that's a hard thing to be prepared for. Then your relationships are changing not only like if you have a spouse or like a partner that's gone. If there's an uneven distribution. If we're getting into like fairplay or different you know, I feel like I'm doing too much. It will lead to resentment. And you're not going to connect with that person. So that's where communication comes in. If that's with like a therapist or just you working on how you're expressing that. I remember with my first I was like in the middle of the night nursing and I remember looking at my husband sleeping and being like like why is he here sleeping and I have to be up nursing and there's nothing really he's going to do about that he's not going to get up and nurse my baby, but I can express that to him and be like this is really frustrating and then maybe he takes the baby for the morning and I sleep.

Unknown 7:17

So it's about communicating those things. And a lot of times, it really depends on kind of like your culture and your family and your relationship. But you need to express how you're feeling so that you can find solutions is that someone comes over for a few hours and you can like go and eat breakfast alone or go out to eat or walk around a store with no one talking to you or meeting you.

Unknown 7:41

Your friendships are a lot harder to you know we used to live in communities where everybody was helping you and that's gone. For most of us that is gone. Where you know, your next door neighbor can just come in, grab your baby and you have a few hours to like, do whatever you need.

Unknown 7:58

So your friendships if your friends don't have kids and you do have kids, that's a big dynamic change and I don't have family around too because then you sometimes I deal with the moms that it's they don't have that support. You know they are a stay at home working mom I like to say working mom because you're either out working or you're in the House working like let's be honest. And so but if you're staying home it is different. Because then you're you're constantly there. So that brings out a whole other I mean that's a whole other can of worms with muttrah essence I think as well. Yeah, and we're battling like you said there's like stay at home mom working mom, you know there's this battle of like I'm working harder. Everyone's working really hard and a lot of people do not have the support that they need and they're not prepared for that.

Unknown 8:52

Make being a stay at home working parent look like this beautiful thing. You know or they're lazy. And then they either don't care about their kids. They're selfish, they're going but none of these people have the resources that they need. Most of these people don't have the resources that they need. And that's where having a kid like we mentioned earlier, it can bring up a lot of stuff from your own childhood from any traumas that you've dealt with. And you don't have the resources. You're getting triggered. Some people get triggered by you don't realize it. You don't realize it. You think this baby is screaming and it's just annoying and you don't realize it's bringing up something for you. You know babies crying don't really trigger me. It's like my whole job. I hear babies crying all day long. Yeah. For other people. It is like a visceral reaction of like, get this baby to stop and you're sent immediately into fight or flight. So it's a lot learning that and if you don't have people around you to tell you that's something that can happen. You need to find a way to deal with it. You need to have some coping mechanisms to kind of handle that. That's really hard. You're in the thick of it. You're exhausted.

Unknown 10:10

You don't know you're having a hard time learning to nurse you're having a hard time figuring out your baby, your baby's spitting up all the time. You don't know anything, really. And that's where we need to normalize creating that village because I want to say you said earlier it takes a village. It does. But where do you find your village?

Unknown 10:28

Who's in your village How do I pick people to be a part of my village? We don't know any of that. And like you said the kind of issues that can come up with OBS is they don't know enough about these resources often and they don't even have the resources to refer to they don't know to add in and I think there's a whole bunch of issues for that. There's a whole bunch of reasons why that might be the case. But they're not referring. You know, hey, look, here's a doula. Here's a chiropractor. You're having round ligament pain here, go see a chiropractor. They're like that's normal.

Unknown 11:05

Yeah.

Unknown 11:07

It's just part of pregnancy. Lightening you know, once you have the baby, yeah, sorry. You just have to deal with it. I know. And I think Dude, that's all so they're, they're somewhat limited, I suppose by time and how much time they spend with patients because I know I spend a lot of time and I know that you probably spend a lot of time more so than they would probably get and even all the pelvic floor PTS I work with. They spend a lot of time Yeah. And so not that that's an excuse for them to not refer out but yes, they were part of the Cascade issue, sir. Yeah, if they had a one of referrals of here's some local birth, doulas. Here's some local postpartum doulas. Here's some local LCSW here, you know, there's some PF PTS just adding all of the aunts and carers that that specialize in perinatal therapists. They're available but the hospital the OB office for most people going the traditional route. And again, this is not hating on the traditional route, but I don't it's hating on the system that's not serving the people that serving. Yes, exactly. Should Know From Our OBS office, maybe from our PCP, we should know hey, if I want to use or all of the things that can find instead of getting you know a bag of formula at the hospital, not that you know, some people do need formula, but instead of getting, you know four boxes of Enfamil I should be coming home from the hospital with a local therapists number. A local LCSW number, local like, Postpartum Support Group.

Unknown 12:40

You know, and maybe they don't have the time to do that. But I wish that they took a little time to do it. Yeah, no, I know. Now what would you recommend for because it sounds when you're talking about the trust and somebody comes up with what you're saying. It's more of that we're not prepared. So what do you do? Do you have people that just hire you for the post partum and then you're kind of coming in? Not at a disadvantage. But coming in towards the end? Or how do you weave in that the true essence work with your doula care? Yes, so I meet with clients while they're pregnant. I focus on postpartum I highly encourage my clients to get a birth doula and I'm gonna say it's 5050 Some of my clients have an amazing birth doula, but if not, I'm doing a little work to get them resources. I have a lot of you know, paperwork that they can fill out. And it doesn't have to be that they fill it out and give it to me it's that they're talking with their partner who's gonna make us food later.

Unknown 13:45

It sparks conversations. Yeah. Who's gonna come and see us at the hospital or come if we're having like a homebirth, who's gonna be there? And then you have to have the conversation of Oh, sorry.

Unknown 13:56

I did. And Sue can't come. Yeah, yeah. If there's somebody that you definitely don't want coming, I give clients the permission to say, Sorry, we don't want people just coming to visit the first few weeks. If you're just coming and holding the baby and leaving, don't come.

Unknown 14:16

I encourage people to ask if you are coming, you know, these are my requirements, whatever those requirements are. Mine might be different than my clients, but they need to come they need to bring something they need to offer to help while they're there. They need to if they're going to hold the baby it's so that the parents can shower and take a nap. They're not just coming sitting on the sofa, taking a picture on a poster, getting out of that. Yeah, yeah. If that's the case, you can come after two months.

Unknown 14:48

I don't need you there. And then another big thing that I'm encouraging my clients to do is change who they're following on social media. Because that's not to say I that's not to like hate on people making birth and postpartum look like this perfect, easy, beautiful thing.

Unknown 15:05

But I also want them to follow people who are making it sound realistic. And yeah, does this make you feel good? Or does this bring shame and guilt because if we weren't here, let's cut that out. Yeah. And like, what that looks like for me now is if there's parents who are like, doing really, really elaborate crafts with their kids, and like, I don't know, making these like very elaborate meals. If that's triggering for me, I'm like, I'm gonna mute that for a little bit. Because it's making me feel like I'm not a good parent. Because I can Yeah, I love the mute button. Yeah, just looking. Sorry. I can't look at you for a little bit of me a minute. Yeah, exactly. And then the last thing is to connect with friends or family members that are keeping it real with them. I want my clients to feel comfortable. They might not get that like a mommy and me or like a parent baby meet up. But with their friends, I want them to be like, Yeah, my baby's not sleeping. I don't want them to feel like they have to lie about why they feel Yeah, this is a hard exam. And I feel like as a doula I'm really planting the seed of one client that I work with is going to tell their next friend who has a baby or their sister or their cousin or whoever having a baby. Hey, you need to have a chiropractor. You need to have a doula you need to have this. Instead of, you know, the top baby stroller or you know the things that you think well things can be important. I spent hours researching baby mattresses like no hate here, but you you can share that with the next person and then I work with a relative or I work with a neighbor or I work with a friend and then those people are doing it for all of their friends. And it really is I see the ripple effect of just changing the conversation.

Unknown 17:01

I don't have this I think it can feel very hopeless right now. Being in the United States in the state of maternal care right now. But I hope that we come out of this, having a shift in what maternal care looks like and what we deserve and what we advocate for for ourselves for our partners for our friends, and what we accept.

Unknown 17:29

That was yeah, that's perfect. I love that. I love that know, that big vision and I think it starts it starts with it starts with us. It starts with the information and it starts with kind of sharing and what we've learned from our stories and yeah, and I love a lot of birth workers that I work with to end up having their why's you know for for what they do and when you can remember that and that bigger picture. It makes all the little other little parts come together. Yeah My why is for people to feel confident and strong and give themselves the time to heal and relax the way that we all should be.

Unknown 18:11

Yeah, that we should all have access to that. Yeah, yes. All right. So you want to do like the wrap up of I can ask you where people can find you. Yeah, sure. Sure.

Unknown 18:23

Yeah, so hey, yeah, we'll connect with you on you your podcast your business yet. So I am at sunrise chiropractic and wellness.com So I'm in the North Atlanta area. I'm on Facebook and Instagram. I think those are the only two that I do. And then I work.

Unknown 18:44

I'm one of the CO hosts of the aligned birth podcast. And so I have Rachel who is a doula in the local North Atlanta area. And so she and I host a podcast and that's kind of how we got connected because we had Caitlin McCray, Hassan, who has founded be her village, which is a really big Look at the baby gift industry. And so that's how we connected is I think, through that I think, you know, Rachel Yeah. Through one of the classes or something that Caitlin was doing, so that's a lot of fun. But yeah, that's where I live in the internet, internet world, internet world.

Unknown 19:26

All right, what about you, my friend? Where can people connect with you? Yes. So I am a simple home doula. I am on the internet, our simple home.org I have a podcast ready for baby. And I'm similar to you. I'm talking about all things pregnancy postpartum.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai