Ep 87: Maternal Stress and Posture - what's the connection?

Rebroadcast of episode 31:
As a chiropractor and doula, we spend a lot of time with expecting and newly postpartum mothers. There is a ton of information you need and want to know about preparing for nursing. In this episode, we are going to talk about nursing posture.  Nursing posture is just one component (of many) to learn more about and to bring awareness to during this time. 

In this episode we discuss:

• The importance of posture while nursing
• Our personal experiences with posture issues after giving birth and in those first couple of years after giving birth.
• Helpful tips for feeding sessions (pumping or chest/breastfeeding)
• Nursing positions
• Nursing pillows
• Stretches to help relieve and reduce tension in the chest, neck, shoulders, and back.
• Chiropractic care to relieve and reduce aches and pains and address nervous system function

Resources mentioned in the episode:

Nursing Posture and its Role in Sympathetic Dominance 

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• 22:49 (Cont.) Ep 87: Maternal Stress and Posture - what's the connection?

Transcript

0:02

Hello, hello aligned birth podcast listeners, family friends. We are here today Dr. Shannon and doula Rachel and we are recording another one of our wonderful conversations and actually something that had been on my mind for a bit. And Rachel and I, you know, chat periodically about well what are some topics and things we want to talk about on the episode and what is important, what are we seeing with our clients and our patients and so today is all about nursing posture. I deal with a lot of posture in the office as a chiropractor, but then there are some very specific things that occur with the nursing posture. And so Rachel and I are both going to go over our own nursing experiences because we each have two kiddos and so there's a whole, we have a lot of experience in that realm too. But really, we really want to focus on that nursing posture. And so why are we going to focus on the nursing posture? Why is posture so important? Why does it matter? And I'm going to leave you with a little nugget of structure determines function. And I this is something in that chiropractic world and looking at the structure of the spine, the structure of the bio structure of the nervous system, and how that determines the function of the body. And we've got some tips to share. So like nursing positions, nursing positions, but things to think about, as it pertains to that nursing posture, right, because that's the focus of the episode. I'm looking at different stretches you can do and then what are some resources, things you can look into, maybe things that you can do, such as chiropractic care, and other you know, stretches and other modalities and then some other people that you can reach out to as well for other support looking at like, like patient consultants in that type of thing that can also address that nursing posture issues. So I'm really excited about this one today. Like I said, this is one that's been on my mind for a bit.

2:07

I'm super excited for this conversation to me, can I just say sitting here and listening to you do the intro I'm sitting up with my shoulders back and in a more optimal posture, just listening to you talk about posture. So I hope for all of our listeners, if you are listening to us, maybe you'll set up a little bit safer,

2:28

you'll sit up straight, it happens every time in the office, you know people come in and I try to be aware of my posture too because I did not grow up with the best posture. So like I'll be the first one to admit it. But I do try to bring awareness that's a word I borrowed those words I've written on my outline right here bringing awareness to where we're aware. Then we can make changes and impact that but yeah, everybody comes in. They're like, Oh, I could see him kind of sitting up straight. And I'm like, Yeah, I can tell that's fatiguing to you it is tiring to you

2:57

and even more so to newly postpartum oh gosh, your aunt's Mama's specifically if you're nursing, I mean it is just it's only natural to have that like kind of caved in posture when you're nursing your baby and carrying your baby. It is so much easier said than done. But it is just general awareness of how posture can impact things and some little things you can do while you're nursing and in between nursing to help improve posture so that you can feel better because I know

3:28

Yeah, that's what you're saying to feel better with it. Because, again, like what you mentioned that caved in it's that motherly aspect I Anna working with so many moms it's that everything occurs in the arm and chest area that like enveloping like the hugging the holding the carrying, the all the duties and things that we do at home and then you add into that nursing aspect and it's all the chest gets tight. And our ear comes in front of the shoulder and our shoulders come forward and our muscles get tight. And so that's kind of a little bit of that cascade that we see. But then that structure determines the function to sit then we do have those aches and pains. And that's what I'm seeing with the moms coming in. You know, it is all connected.

4:24

It's all connected. And so that's why it matters. That's why we want to talk about it is bringing awareness so that you can understand that making some of these small adjustments can help improve your overall health and well being and how you feel and just thrive more so than suffer.

4:43

Yes. And I want to get a little I want to do just a real brief sciency aspect to it because again, so we've talked we said posture is important and structure determines function. But what does that even mean? So real quickly, you've got some parts of the nervous system. You may have heard parasympathetic and sympathetic. Or parasympathetic is that rest and digest. It's very calming, relaxing healing, that's when your body heals. And that part of the nervous system is typically top and bottom. So cervical spine, lumbar, sacral aspect of it. But in the mid spine that's that sympathetic part of the nervous system that's fight or flight that's run from the bear. That's chronic stress. That's all of those things were last. rounded shoulders and we have a chest that's pulling really tight. It happens in that part of the spine where that you can get that sympathetic dominance, that sympathetic fight or flight that's the heart rate goes up, the blood pressure goes up, the pupils dilate. And so you don't even have to be scared. You don't have to be in a fight or flight but when your body goes into that structure, then the body starts to function in that sympathetic dominance. So I hope that makes sense that even that structure that you're holding is kind of cluing the brain into like, oh my gosh, fight or flight, pupils, dilate, breathing, all of those types of things start to go. Yeah, so that doesn't, that doesn't go well when you're trying to when they say don't stress about nursing, you know, well, that I mean, that's what you hear, you're gonna affect your milk supply if we're stressed. And so it's that posture. So that's why we're talking I'm not saying that like, postures, definitely, you know, chiropractors gonna make your milk supply increase. It's not that but I have seen that in office, but it has a lot to do with that posture. So that's why that's why we're talking about it today.

6:38

So cool. Well, it's all connected. And I think people like to lump it in and say we'll try to be real I just don't like simply saying, just, just relax. Just relax and it'll be easier and your milk will go come flowing when you're more relaxed and the oxytocin is flowing. However, there are ways to support the whole process. And that is setting yourself up with some of these tips we're going to share so that you can have a an easier time and then that awareness of that you can hold your body in a certain way so that you it's not like a you know, a cyclical effect, where it's like you're stressed while your feeds off of each other, you know, and then it's a cycle that's hard to break but it is it is you can break that cycle with some of these tips and then seeking care from like a chiropractor, as well as lactation consultant, and I know we'll go in to that later. But I did want to share a little bit like for me personally, when I was breastfeeding, it was occurred more so with my second and I think that's because I had a toddler who I was also tending to but it did happen with my first but I wasn't aware of these things that were going to share and like having to posture, how to hold my body, how to take care of myself in between feedings, so that I could help release the tension and stretch the muscles so that I could feel better. And so I had that really caved in like shoulders coming towards like coming forward, which created a lot of tension in my neck. And I had a lot of the knots in my back and in my neck. So I always felt like I had like a disc being pulled in my neck and my shoulder. I had weird like tingling sensations in my shoulder to the point where like, my right hand was numb and tingling. But I would always be like, you know, kind of you kind of bring your shoulders and as you're nursing, and that's normal. I think that's also important to know like that's a part of like feeding, but it's kind of like what you do in between to take care of yourself too. And then I did a lot of sideline nursing which was amazing. That was a position that was introduced to me and and it made feeding and latching super easy. But in that sideline position, if you're not conscious of of your shoulders, I mean gravity, just not pull your shoulders forward. And so I ended up in kind of a twist position and I would sleep like that. And I would sleep like with my right arm out, like stretching towards the baby. And then I don't know it was a combination of factors but I really struggled with discomfort and tension in my neck and my back and those knots and it took me several months to work it out and and get better. So I say all that to say that had I done some of these things. I think I probably would have been in a little bit better position.

9:30

How I know that's that's why we have these conversations, and we share our experiences though. So how long did you nurse? Each of your kiddos?

9:39

Two years, okay for both of them. So I think Marshall was just under two years. So like 23 months?

9:47

Yeah, so that's a long I mean, that's a long time when you think of how often you nurse and that posture that you're holding. So I think that's important and I was very similar. I did I think I was 21 months with my oldest and I think I was right at 24 months with my youngest. So again, it's that posture I know with the first with my first i i went back to work really really early. I think I've talked about these before, like I was four weeks postpartum which is not advisable and I so I had a lot of pumping as well as nursing. So you know, attach that pump and so pumping posture is also something else too because it is you are still kind of rounded in that aspect. So I know I had to do some things I tried to sit up straight with pumping but also to where you're pumping at like you know now we've got some more awareness of better things to offer our our nursing community but like where the table height is like even like ergonomic things like that, you know where the pump is and how you're but now they've got other ones that are nice, where, like some of the willow pumps where it's not you can just kind of like hands free and you're not connected to all these tubes and flange is an amazing sounds going on. But um,

11:12

some of these tips can apply to pumping. And

11:16

so I want to I did want to at least mention like that was my experience with it too. And it's those different nursing positions. I know for me that was really big learning some of those nursing positions and now I think when we go through maybe we go through the tips. We can talk about some nursing positions now and like, you know, adding what worked for us but then also what are what are some tips that you're providing the clients that you work with?

11:43

Yeah, and I think this is like the tips I'll start with is sort of like how to kind of set yourself up a little bit. And tip number one is to bring the baby to your nipple, not your nipple to your baby because what when you bring your nipple to the baby you are leaning forward and hunching over automatically. So you want to set yourself up in a way that is bringing the baby to the nipple and that usually involves some pillows or a nursing pillow and some towels. And it can be a bit of an ordeal especially when they're new and little. So just remember bring the baby to the nipple, not the nipple to the baby. And then try to keep your shoulders relaxed, which I don't love having to you know, I don't love saying that to try to release the tension. Let it melt away.

12:30

Bring the awareness to the shoulders. That's the way to say just bring awareness to it. Yes, instead of saying like,

12:37

just so think about letting the stress of tension melt out of your shoulders. So that kind of down and out feeling and it's easier said than done. But general awareness is good. And then this one is very hard to resist and I almost didn't want to say it but it is it does play in so avoid like constantly looking down the whole time. Which knows early days you're making sure the latches right you're in awe of what you're looking at. So I'm not saying don't look at your baby oh my gosh, look at your baby. However, if intermittently, you could also look up and turn your head from side to side and look, you know, side to side up and down and just roll your neck maybe just sort of move your neck in different positions. versus staying staring down, which creates that tension in the neck and in the back and what's concrete like those knots that that can kind of have that ripple effect. And so that's something to think about, as well as sitting all the way back in a chair and if you don't want to sit all the way back if you have like a very deep chair or couch, put a pillow a firm pillow behind you for extra support so that you're kind of forced to sit in an upright position. And that's hard to do on like a couch or a chair that's very deep. So either push yourself all the way back to where your firm against the back or put some pillows behind you for extra support. You can do a rolled up towel to help raise your baby's head up as well as using like those nursing pillows which we'll talk about the different kinds of nursing pillows and a little bit and if you can keep your feet flat on the floor. That's really helpful. And again, that might only be achieved by putting some pillows behind you to force you forward. And my favorite tip is creating a nursing station so that when you sit down and you've got yourself all propped up with all these pillows and you're sitting upright and you're you're settled in. If you have a nursing station with snacks and water, your remote controls for the TV. If your phone have that nearby if you want to use that have your nipple cream and burp cloths and extra pillows anything you might need having that set up at different nurse you know if you have one nursing station in your home or multiple that kind of set it up so that when you sit down, you don't feel like you have to get back up.

15:05

Yes, no, I love all those things that you said because those and now I'm remembering I was like oh yeah, I looked at my phone a lot when I was nursing at 3am. Like today you know and you're like I'm here again. And that's that same three down. Yeah. Looking down. I know. So that's so important to mention, because and again, it's just bring the awareness to it. It's like okay, let's just, I mean, that's all that we can do right now. That's step one. We bring the awareness to it and the nursing station is key two, because having all of those things around you I had all these pockets on my chair that I loved and so I was like I just reached into the pocket for all the different things that I needed. Yeah, so that lumbar support is key. I think some of the tips I would have is I think that through taking that breastfeeding class beforehand I know that was very instrumental in my success in breastfeeding cuz I remember those things, but I think that can give you that can bring awareness to things too. So I think taking that class beforehand, not after um you know, don't afterwards, doing that beforehand and then you can learn some of those nursing positions. So because I remember to like oh, the latch felt weird over here. Maybe if I try like a football hold, you know, and I can move now if we're nursing on the left side, I can move this right arm a little bit more because I've got this football hold. And then I you know I discovered sideline as well to which I think was helpful to the posture in an in an aspect. I guess the big thing is, is I mean I tell my people I need you to move you know if you're sitting at a desk all day and working so change up those nursing positions too. So and that can be good to discover some of those different ones because you might find some of this is a little bit easier, or you're more comfortable if you're out and about and it's like oh well we'll do crossbody now instead of football or you know having and having those experience having

16:59

a few different positions to try and I think those are best learned and a breastfeeding class before the birth. And that's where you're gonna learn about those different positions to try and how to kind of do them correctly to ensure optimal like latching and feeding but as well as ensure your wellness, because you're going to spend a lot of time if you're nursing, chest feeding, breastfeeding, pumping. Yeah, even if you're not not feeding directly from the breast, you're probably pumping. So you know, this applies to all of it and breastfeeding class can help you beforehand for all of that prepare, so that you can again thrive through this time versus you know, suffer and have a lot of ailments down the road from it. And then I think it's important to talk about that these are just tips and it doesn't mean you're not going to have tension. It doesn't mean you're not going to feel aches and pains so that then I think we can talk about what are some things you can do between feedings and I think stretching, stretching and chiropractic care massage if you can incorporate it are really key to taking care of yourself between those feedings. And I'm not saying you're going out and getting a massage every day but it could be a neck massage from your partner or you could have a massage tool. Anything that I've worked out those knots and as much muscle the tight muscles, but I think stretching for me stretching is how I got myself better combined with chiropractic care. And so do you have some stretches you recommend to your clients for nursing mamas

18:35

I even have I even mentioned a foam roller because you know after a nursing session, because you've got that collapse. I love foam rollers and I do I pretty much typically recommend it to almost everyone because that's where most people have that collapse anyways in the shoulders, and in that upper chest. And so even you know, just using that foam roller, there's a couple different ways you can use it. And I go over those in the office, you know, perpendicular to the spine and parallel to the spine and then you can even do that can open up the chest too. So that's one of that's one of my my big ones. And then

19:14

with the foam roller Do you ever recommend having them lie on it with the foam roller going like up and down their spine? Yemen low the chest, like the orbit?

19:24

Oh, yeah. Now with that? Yeah, so that's yeah, so definitely you can do the normal where you know it's on the ground and you're rolling back and forth on it and working out some of the muscles there and the fascia that connects all the muscles. But even having it up and down the spine. The only thing to be careful with is having that head lay back. So that's what I go over in office too. It's you know, it being mindful when you get up off of the ground like it's best to kind of roll off it a little bit and ease yourself back to roll to the side of it just to protect those blood pressure changes and that type of thing, but I do love that and then like yoga stuff too. I think there's some great yoga moves. I don't even know how I would describe these, you know, as far as but just kind of laying on your chest and then rolling over onto one shoulder and really trying to open up the arms and open up the chest and doing both sides.

20:22

Yeah, so that's like a goalpost position. So imagine like you're lying face down and your arms are in the goalpost position, and then you roll let's say to your left and you leave your you leave your left arm down and you lift your right arm up and kind of go as far as that feels good. That's going to open up the whole front of the chest but that goalpost is the visual that helps me is like yeah, laying on your stomach and then roll to one side leaving the opposite arm down or whatever.

20:48

And and I typically talk about in the tips with the habit a footstool. If your feet aren't on the ground, having that foot still can be helpful for posture as well. too.

21:00

Oh, yeah, I said the floor and you're shortline me you need a footstool. So yeah. So smart. Yes. Yep.

21:09

The only other thing I have here is something I've gone over before and it's it's called parasympathetic breathing. So it's not necessarily a stretch, but remember, we talked about being in that sympathetic mode and that sympathetic dominance and having you know, that's, that's what releases adrenaline and so that parasympathetic breathing, trying to get back to that rest and digest in that calming and healing aspect. So you can even even just laying flat on the floor. You don't have to do the foam like I have some people start to lay flat on the floor after you're done nursing. And breathe in for like a count of four and then breathe out for a count of six or whatever count you want to do. But as long as you breathe out longer than you inhale, that activates that, you know, activating vagus nerve that's calming down the nervous system, and that can dramatically improve some of that, that stress aspect of things too.

22:09

And that's a good tip for anytime you're feeling stressed or anxious anxiety that works anytime, anytime. I can just stop and do that parasympathetic, breathing and you can do that sitting or lying. Lying is best, but anytime you can do that, I think that's a helpful tip to help release the tension, reduce the overall stress on the body and mind and that's going to improve many things. Overall, mentally, emotionally, physically.

22:31

What stretches do you go over?

22:35

So I really like a simple chest stretch, which the one we just talked about is a great one. But also just taking your hands behind your back and like having your palms facing each other or maybe even clasping. Your hands behind your back and then raising your arms is going to open the chest really nicely. And that just feels so good. It's just such an opposing feeling to how we usually are so it just feels really nice. I do that one. And I share that one and then I really like thread the needle so that we run hands and knees and you take your right arm into the air and you kind of open up your chest to the air and then you use thread that right arm underneath your left arm and then kind of rest your shoulder on the on the ground. And then you can kind of walk your left arm out if you want, but that's gonna give sort of a good twist to that upper back to help release that and then I think simple neck rolls. So big neck rolls in both directions, turning your head side to side and also tilting your head back and kind of opening it's again it's an opposing stretch. Usually, we have tech neck or we're gazing down in our baby all day. We have that like looking down curve to our neck but then just really opening up the throat and head and back and letting that head go backwards. And then tucking the chairman going forward. So it's kind of all directions of Yeah, you

24:04

do all your normal. Yeah, the ranges of motion of the neck. That's perfect. That's so good to wake to wake up the spine. Yes, yep. So now, those are the ones you should those are good ones and I want to address to that. So Rachel, my both we nursed for two years. So nursing a newborn is very different than nursing into those toddler years. And that can also impact your posture as well too, because then you're thinking as the baby's getting heavier if you're holding and not supporting as much. So there again, we bring awareness to it and look at some of those different sideline positions. You can do a look at some of those different nursing positions you can do and then adding in those stretches as well and just feeling those changes that you have as your baby grows.

24:55

Yes, and it well it gets different. It gets a bit easier as they get sturdier but also gets harder and harder because they're heavier. And they're wiggling around and stuff. So it's it's not as easy in the in the aspect of like those early days where they're not moving as much and you kind of just set yourself up

25:12

their little hands are like coming up and they're like, Hey, look at me, you know,

25:15

it is different. So kind of letting it evolve, but But putting down laying down the framework and the foundation using these tips early on, will help you if you have that extended nursing experience so that as they get bigger and grow and stuff that you're able to adapt and then really just take care of yourself between between nursing right I mean, we're resting best we can hydrating chiropractic care stretching. So that can last forever. Right those those habits can be through it all and I did I think we touched on it. But I wanted to go back real quick to nursing pillows. Yeah,

25:51

down to I wanted to talk about that. Yeah, mention that.

25:55

I think the Bobby is the most popular one like that is on all gift registries and it's great. I have the Bobby I used it for both of my kids, but there is a new one out there that I think is worth looking at and it's called my breast friend, original nursing posture pillow. And I think that one is really well designed and smart and

26:19

that fits around the back right? Yeah, it has a Yeah, a

26:22

pillow in the back. Yeah, yes. And it like clips around. Yes. And it's probably just it's built like a firmer support and like a bigger support section. Yes, the Bobby in the Bobby and it has like a pocket on it. You know, like a snack in it or your phone or whatever. I had a dear friend of mine who had who has twins and she I was over visiting her and she was nursing and had the my breast friend for her twins and she was you know, nursing them at the same time and I was like that's the best nursing pillow I've ever seen. Yeah, I forgot about that

26:59

one. Yeah, so that's a good one and the final to use the copy to yeah,

27:04

yes something but I think that may not be the bobby might need to be then have some pillows put under

27:09

the ball. That's exactly what I did. And my mom's it's like you got it again. That's you bringing the baby to the breast and so instead of you coming down, I would put I don't know how many pillows I would put as many as I needed to under that so that then the baby newborn was right on level then you don't have to you may not need as many pillows as things change. But yeah, using those pillows to stack and bring the baby up to

27:33

the bobby alone is probably not going to cut it you got to be prepared to really create a lot of support underneath the body and underneath your arms and even maybe underneath their head like raising the side of their nursing arm a little bit more. Really getting them a position where you can sit comfortably for the duration of the feeding. And that the baby's up towards you. And it takes a lot of work and then ever I hear all the time for my clients is like we talk about this a lot in the prenatal sessions and then that gets here and it's much harder than they anticipated. But they stick with it and they work with it. They kind of figure out what works for them and then they find their groove but it's not like you're not gonna sit down or lay down for that first week of feeding and it feels like you got to figure it out. It takes time to sort of test some of these things out and and just stick with it and then you'll find what works for you and you'll be able to get into that position quicker and you'll be able to, you know, release that tension quicker. You know, it all kind of comes with practice.

28:34

Yep, no, that's yes, you practice it.

28:39

Well tell us Dr. Shannon for your clients. I mean, I know chiropractic care helped me tremendously in the postpartum with my how my body was feeling and especially with my chest and back and shoulder issues from nursing and not sleeping correctly. Tell me how you help your patients. When you see them in the postpartum proactively and sort of after they're maybe feeling some aches and pains.

29:06

Yeah, those are the biggest ones I think I deal with it's usually postpartum, hip pain and postpartum, um, that thoracic spine pain that's usually related to nursing so that hip pain can be you know, it's a little bit of different alignment stuff. But yeah, that's that tends to be what comes in the office what I see the most and then what I remember as well to, you know, personally dealing with those things. I've mentioned this magazine before and it's pathways to family wellness with a chiropractic based magazine, but they do have other articles in there. It's a wonderful, wonderful resource and they have an article in there. It's called nursing posture and its role in sympathetic dominance. And so it's written by two chiropractors and it is so good because it kind of describes and explains everything that I had said earlier as far as like the structure determines function, and we're looking at the nervous system. So again, when you've got that collapse in the chest, well, that sympathetic, nervous that sympathetic aspect turns on and it relates directly stimulates the adrenal glands and the adrenal glands are going to release adrenaline and noradrenaline and so that is that that's what then is really used to cause the pupils to dilate and the heart rate to increase and that blood pressure growth and breathing and so if we can, there's a quote from the article and I really love it because it says chiropractic care is an essential component of addressing like those structural issues of posture, because it directly addresses those structural patterns that run below the level of conscious awareness. So does that make sense? Like, so again, it's it we're bringing awareness to that posture, but Well, what can we do so chiropractic care when we make those adjustments in that spine? That is that other aspect, that other level of care that you can get to really impact that nervous system function? And so I know I love that article. I was like, Oh, it's so good. Because those adjustments intrinsically down regulate that sympathetic response. That is what we do with those adjustments, we can really impact that sympathetic tone. And you can promote the parasympathetic tone to the nervous system that rest and digest and the healing one and also that vagal nerve activity because Vegas is how the heart rate increases and everything through that sympathetic tone. So it's, you know, it's all connected to get online. See there for you, and

31:30

I love it. And that's super important for mamas to hear about because we're always at we're in a constant kind of state of stress after giving birth for one reason or another. And even in an optimal situation. There's always a degree of stress. And so understanding that seeking chiropractic care and doing these things can help regulate your system, so that it can respond how it's supposed to, instead of always being responding in fight or flight which is always running at a high level of stress, which can create you know negative feelings on the body emotionally, physically, mentally. So, having access to that and teaching that to your clients and, and I think it's important to know that it's not like a one and done usually, it's kind of like, you're kind of always, you're always needing to reset like your body, you know, you're gonna it's going to help you feel better for a little while, but when you're in those early days, and I mean for the whole first year, I mean, everything's healing and recovering and you're always dealing with new stresses with your child in one way or another. So just kind of always being aware that that kind of care can help you stay in a more balanced state. And again, it's not always perfect, but it's it's I think it's an improved Yeah,

32:41

component to add, I think it's not like the one and done and it's not all encompassing and it's not going to, you know, cure everything. But it's, it's a good thing to add because when you look at that structure determines the function so we can assess that structure of the spine there, but then we're also looking long term like how were you able to adapt to those stressors and so that's some of the goals that I look with care. And so I do these nervous system scans. I think I've talked about this in other episodes, but and I can look at the I can look at this autonomic part of the nervous system that blood vessel gland organ function, part of the nervous system, and a lot of times my mom's I can see, hey, I know you're feeling good, but like, the nervous system is still stressed out. So you know, it's it's more than just that feeling. So how can we adapt to those stressors and so I think that's like that big goal to end care. And knowing yes, that consistency of care renders better, longer lasting results. I think it's a wonderful thing to add as far as that postpartum and care and then looking at the nursing posture and how that can impact the body.

33:49

Well, and just generally, like when you participate in an office like yours, and your senior provider like you where you're providing resources like that magazine with educational information, where you're talking about some stretches you can do where you're you know, providing resources for postpartum mom groups or or lactation counselors or massage therapists. Like it's a it's it's, you're getting to tap into so much more than just going and getting, you know adjusted, which is great all by itself, and then you also have access to so many other benefits. And I always like to highlight that because you do so much more for your clients than just that.

34:26

You say sweet, yeah, so we do we provide all those resources. And like, I love what you mentioned, just recently, too, with lactation consultants. Because again, this episode is mainly about nursing and posture. There's a lot of other things that go into nursing because it's also not just Mom, it's baby. It's latch. Its tongue ties, lip ties, cheek ties, like it's all the things and so outside of all of that lactation consultants can be really, really wonderful in helping with those nursing positions, assessing latch because maybe the latch is off and it's taking twice as long to feed and so we're in that position twice as long so I think it's always beneficial to reach out and ask for help in that realm of those experts in nursing.

35:13

Yes, and I am a big fan of telling my Doula clients and anyone I can to figure out who you want to be your lactation counselor or consultant during pregnancy, have a phone call with them or an in person visit with them before the birth they're going to give you some tips for getting started and you know, signs of issue to look for and then just it's like you've already made that connection. You've done that legwork, so that when you're in the postpartum when again you're more tired, you're more stressed your if you're having any issues, nursing, it's harder to be like okay, now I've got to go find a lactation counselor. Even if you ask for referrals from your trusted birth support team like your doula postpartum doula birth doula chiropractor, it's still going to be like, oh gosh, I've got to our you know, figure out does my insurance cover it does. Do they do in person or virtual? How much does it cost? Like get all that out of the way? Get in touch with them first and then in the in the postpartum, you can more easily reach out to them to help you remind you of what they've already shared with you, again, identify issues help you navigate it, but I just highly encourage doing that in the in the pregnancy phase, and again, that's separate from a breastfeeding course and that person might offer a breastfeeding course and if they do great, but I still encourage taking a feeding course and then having a lactation counselor and most lactation consultants who are ibclc which is internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant are covered by insurance. So that can also be something you can exploring it figure out if they take your insurance and how that works so that you can have some of that out of the way and make sure that it can be included in your coverage because you can make the most of that and it can really make a difference in your overall experience beyond posture postures like like Shana said, I just combined Hannah and Shana Shana Hannah Hannah as my Doula partner and I talked a lot to so your Shana, apparently but

37:16

we're like together who has the superpower?

37:18

Right? That is a superpower. But you laid it all out well to about how the benefits of having that as well like the posture is just one component. So

37:28

it is right and it's it's you know, at least now you have that little nugget of information or something to think about and then that proactive aspect of care, you know, being proactive with it and looking at it beforehand.

37:41

Yes, I agree. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today with us. Dr. Shannon.

37:46

Yes. Such a wonderful episode. Nursing is such a beautiful gift, and I'm thankful for it. I know you're thankful for it too. And so hopefully we've provided some resources to help make that an enjoyable experience. I agree Have a great day. Bye. Guys. Yeah. Whatever is coming on in nature you. Are you sure we'll be here Better Okay. Your Day Yah. Yah yah yah yah I love to meet you and you're out here Africa. Or Asia as a Teacher Hi variable

Nursing, posture, positions, shoulders, pillows, stretches, stress, postpartum, chest, feeding, nervous system, tips, aspects, awareness, baby, spine, chiropractic care, neck, parasympathetic, laying