Ep. 19 All About Prenatal Chiropractic Care with Dr. Shannon

In this episode, Doula Rachael interviews Dr. Shannon. They dive deep into the many aspects of prenatal and postpartum chiropractic care. The episode begins by defining what prenatal chiropractic care is and the many benefits it can provide before, during, and after pregnancy.

Dr. Shannon shares with us the optimal time to begin chiropractic care, what the first visit looks like, her approach to providing care, how she facilitates learning and healing through her practice,and the many other amazing services she provides to her patients. 

Dr. Shannon is a tremendous asset to our community and she has a huge heart for supporting expecting mothers all along their unique journey into and through motherhood. She prides herself on providing care that allows her patients to become more self-aware of their own bodies and she provides many opportunities for her patients to learn more about themselves and how they can take incremental steps toward optimal health and wellness for themselves, their baby, and their family.

Resources mentioned in the episode:

ICPA4Kids (website)

“Well Adjusted Babies” (book)

BirthFIT (prenatal and postpartum wellness)

Pathways to Family Wellness (magazine)

Episode 3 - Building Your Birth Support Team

Episode 5 - Pillars of a Healthy Pregnancy

Episode 10 - Budgeting for Baby

Sunrise Chiropractic and Wellness (Blog, Newsletter, Mom Hikes, and MORE)

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

We hope what we

Transcript

0:06

Hi there everyone, this is doula Rachel co host of the aligned birth podcast. And you might be wondering why you're hearing my voice first, and that's because we have switched roles today and I am interviewing Dr. Shannon, who we are going to dive deeper into what she does. So we began our podcast episodes one and two, with our origin story, and sort of how we got into birth work, our birth stories sort of starting businesses, but we didn't really dive into what it is that Dr. Shannon does what it's like to work with her, exactly like the benefits and all the other things that she does in her office, so I hope you are as excited as I am about this interview because it is going to be wonderful you guys help me welcome Dr. Shannon. Hello. Hello, I'm so excited to be here today, on this side of things, I know you are just a tremendous interviewer and I am so thankful you are willing to switch seats for an episode and let us get to know you and what you do so that the world can be more informed, and hopefully, you know, find combined you or find a chiropractor for them.

1:30

Yes, actually I will say I'm a little, I'm a little nervous, so this is kind of fun being on like this end of things,

1:36

yeah, yeah, well it's gonna be good and you're gonna do great. I wanted to begin with a foundation of like, give us the definition of what a prenatal chiropractor is.

1:50

Well, and that's a good place to start because that is the focus in my office now. When someone goes to school for chiropractic, you know, you get that doctor to chiropractic degree, and then, um, There are so many things there's over 200 Different adjusting techniques. So, there are so many different things so many ways to run your office so many ways to adjust people, and one of those focuses that you can look at is, prenatal care. So, as a chiropractor I am looking at and I focus on, nervous system function so I'm a subluxation based chiropractor, looking at brain Body Body brain connection, and I want that to be optimal. And when that's optimal, then we can express health and wellness optimally. Now, some of the differences that you can have with prenatal chiropractic care is the specific training you can receive what is called the Webster technique and so it's named after Larry Webster who pioneered this technique, and I got to train with some of the doctors who were trained by Dr Webster himself to so it's such an honor and having been to life University. It's kind of like the mecca of chiropractic world here in the Atlanta area and so I'm so thankful that some of those chiropractors there are teaching students nowadays, straight from Larry Webster, but the Webster technique, it's, it's a specific pelvic and sake role, analysis, and adjustment that is used during pregnancy and we're really looking at the biomechanics of the pelvis and the sacrum and trying to facilitate that normal physiological function that normal biomechanical function to then help that Brain Body Body brain connection and Webster technique can what's fun about I don't think a lot of people know this either, and even some of the birth professionals that I work with is that there is a component where there's a bone, muscle and ligament that we work with on the posterior or that backside of the patient and then there's a bone, muscle and ligament that we work with on the front side of the patient as well too. And so they're very specifics within it. And it's really cool to be able to work with moms. During this time and have them be adjusted and I always every time I'm adjusting mom I'm always thinking back to I was 36 weeks pregnant when I got my first chiropractic adjustment and so it's always like a special time there, but so again not every chiropractor is Webster trained. And so I guess that's where I kind of want to start with is if we're looking for prenatal chiropractic care really looking and making sure you find someone that is Webster trained is very very important and so that's all done through the International chiropractic Pediatric Association, so icpa will link that website in the notes because you can actually go on that website, put in your zip code and you can find chiropractors in your area who are Webster trained who have deployments and working with pediatric patients who are certified and working with pediatric patients and all kinds of amazing things. So, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.

5:12

Oh girl you are speaking my language I just love when I hear terms like normal physiologic function, and like, optimal brain body function because that is how we all are able to live and thrive. Whether pregnant or postpartum or not. And so I love that you speak about that, and your certification, be a Webster and how important that is to ensure that if people are seeking that chiropractic care prenatally that that they have a chiropractor who is Webster certified which you are so if you're in the area Acworth Kennesaw Marietta, go find Shannon's office sunrise chiropractic alive. I'll plug you all day long.

5:53

I know.

5:55

And so we've learned now a little bit about but prenatal chiropractic care is. So can you tell me the benefit of receiving this kind of specialized Webster technique adjustment during pregnancy and as well as after pregnancy because the body changes so much that I think some people forget to follow up with that care so I'd love if you spoke to both.

6:23

Yeah, definitely. And with the prenatal care, I have a lot of moms that come to the office, and it is, you know, Low back pain, there can be sciatica so pain radiating all the way down into the back of the leg. There can be headaches, that can happen a lot, you've changed that center of gravity and so there's postural issues there. There can be pubic bone pain that's a huge one, there can be round ligament pain, but even optimal fetal position issues and I want to do want to go into that a little bit but that there's so many different things that bring pregnant patients into the office, and so, but again, I am really focusing on that Brain Body Body brain connection and really trying to facilitate healing and facilitate that optimal pelvic and sacral alignment and function and so everyone comes in with those different things and yes I want people to feel better but I always tell them I want them to function better too. And so that's a big big point of it and so with prenatal chiropractic care. There's this wonderful book well adjusted babies. And in it, there's a couple of research articles that are linked in it talks about women under care, and the differences in the time they are in labor. So there can be a significant reduction in labor time, and then also a significant reduction in the need for pain meds and medication, and so those are two really big things, I think, as well. In addition to, Oh well, let's alleviate the pain yes I know we're in pain but also remember we want, we want that optimal birth to and so we want mom to feel so good about that birth. And if those are some things that she's wondering and worried about then. Yes, I do think chiropractic care can impact that. And make a big difference in how she feels about her birth.

8:32

That's so awesome and I think some things I've learned from you and from my work as a doula and childbirth educator is understanding that the adjustments, you're talking about are pretty like, they're like, fine, they're like small, like it's like these like subtle, subtle things that make a huge difference. And so what I think some people have a hard time understanding I'd love if you helped clarify this or speak to this is that it's like hard to maybe notice right away if something's different or better or to see that benefit from birth when you're pregnant. Because those things that you're doing are helping ensure the pelvis is stable and balanced. And so I just wanted to speak to like the importance of that for baby navigating the pelvis and engaging so first the baby has to engage in the pelvis, you know, assuming head down, they engage in the pelvis and then they work their way by rotating down and out, and that's just not like this like straight shot, and so the any bit of unbalance in that round ligament. I'm sorry, any bit of imbalance, if I said that in the round ligament or in the pelvis can create tiny enough barriers for baby to navigate the pelvis smoothly safely and easily as it's designed and so really understanding the importance of the subtle these subtle adjustments that make a big difference during labor.

10:02

Yes, you know, I, that's so true because it's, it does get a little frustrating sometimes when you know people want to expect that that quick fix, you know that like one adjustment and that's gonna everything's gonna lined up my pains gonna be gone and everything's gonna be perfect and you know I go through this detailed health history spend 90 minutes with my adult patients. Because you have a lifetime of history there. And so, if we've got some of these aches and pains and we have some of these imbalances, it's not like it just happened yesterday. It's things that have been coming and going, like, over time, all of those little micro traumas. So did you play sports as a kid, you know, what did you do growing up how many car accidents have you been in like all of these things but what are you doing day in and day out, do you sit at a desk, what are those repetitive traumas, all of those things can impact that spinal health in that nervous system function. Now in time while someone is pregnant. And so, every care plan is different, you know, every person that comes in is different so I definitely don't do like, oh, you need to be seen two times a week until the baby's born like no, everybody is different, but it really is. It's so important with that consistency of care, and knowing that every time you come in, is different. You're different as well you know you've had different experiences, there's more relaxed and then the body this time, as opposed to other times you had come in, and so yes again it's about yeah I want people to feel better but I mean that ultimate goal is that optimal brain Body Body brain connection and even speaking to what you were talking about with the optimal fetal positioning, you know, sometimes there are some statements made about chiropractors, turning babies or flipping breech babies, and that type of thing, and within the icpa and Webster certification training classes, the profession has been very specific in saying that that is not what we do, I mean I would, yes I love when the baby is in the optimal fetal positioning, but I'm not practicing obstetrics, so I am focusing on the mom and the moms pelvic and sacral alignment, and so I want to go a little bit in depth with. I do occur one on one in my office for patients who come in and I do an in my new patient exam whether they've been adjusted or not because I'm a doctor and a doctor as a teacher, and so I'm here to teach and facilitate not only healing but learning as well too and have helping people have a better understanding of their body. And so when somebody comes in, we talk about, okay, well what is the Webster technique. So yes, we have the spine and the spinal cord and how all the nerves are moving and functioning in the brain is talking to the body and the body is talking to the brain but we also have a lot going on within the uterus and that whole area and so we talked about the broad ligament, and then we talked about the round ligament in the uterus sacral ligament and how those come out and really impact that uterus shape. Well, guess where those ligaments attach one attaches to the sacrum and one attaches to the pubic bone which is part of the pelvis, and so when we can make sure that pelvis and sacrum are aligned well then maybe we can reduce some of the tension within those ligaments which allows optimal fetal position which allows baby to move easier and freer where we don't have a uterus that is twisted and in torsion, so that is always my answer when some a mom comes in and they're talking about, you know breech babies or transverse just had a transverse one, and it's really, I always go into that and I just want them to know that like I'm focusing on you, mom. Because that is ultimately what we can do to help baby in better position so I don't even remember the first question that you asked but I just know you got that's where I wanted to go, yes that as well. Yes,

14:05

Yes it's under Yes you were looking at, at the client of your patient at the mama and focusing on her basically balancing the body balancing those ligaments and then if you get a baby that turns her down, then great. And that is a result of this kind of care, but it's not like you were saying you're not like the doctor who's doing an external rotation, trying to get the baby to turn yeah so, but understand the benefit and how you can either avoid your baby being in a mouth position, or you can encourage baby to turn into an optimal position on its own by balancing all the ligaments in the pelvis like you're talking about. So I totally that I get all of that I think that's important for people to hear if they're considering prenatal care or if they're currently seeing prenatal care and understanding what you're what you're doing, what your goal is. So I think you've nailed it and even enlightened me so I think that's awesome. I do want to ask you, when is the best time to begin chiropractic care during pregnancy. Before you're pregnant.

15:19

Right,

15:20

right. Yeah, I

15:21

mean you were. I love how you were like, when, when I did your interview or we talked about you and your doula work. When you said when's the best time to hire do it anytime it's kind of like, who can you adjust anyone with a spine. It's, but I do really love that preconception of care is again, the brain is controlling all the functions of the body. So, if we can ensure that we are making an impact in. Gosh, all the functions Heart, Lung, all the organ system funked if we can make sure that we're making positive impact in those areas, then that just sets us up for a healthier pregnancy throughout and it's really fun working with moms who come in who weren't even trying, you know it's just a mom, or just a woman that comes in who's not even trying to get pregnant and then kind of being able to work with her through that journey. That being said, right, right, you could be like me, you know, when I started 36, Weeks Pregnant your second one you come with this big ol belly and you say hell, you know, so I get that too. So, it's really, it's never too late, I've had mom's call. I'm 40, plus weeks, and I still go through my whole exam, you're not going to get you don't get shortchanged because you're coming in a little bit later, we're doing the whole thing I'm explaining the whole thing. I obviously might try to see you pretty often because we don't have a whole lot of time and we're trying to maximize what we can do, but I have had that as well. So, it's never too late now optimally Yes, it's that the beauty of that consistency of the care, and even hopefully getting to that maintenance aspect of just helping maintain all the change and progress that we have made, but it's never too late.

17:16

It's never too late, but I also think it's important to mention that, that sure you will help that person who has 40 plus weeks along but if the preconception of or as early as possible on pregnancy because there's so much benefit from having all that time to, like you said you teach your you work on like, educating and teaching your, your patients and so understanding that by seeing you as a prenatal chiropractor you're getting so much more than just these adjustments, and that with each visit, that's an opportunity for them to glean some information from you about having a healthy pregnancy having a safe pregnancy. I know from our previous conversations that you're sharing resources and educational opportunities and local resources and checking in with them like, how they're doing emotionally or mentally so the benefit of that kind of prenatal care is invaluable. So I say, the earlier the better so they can maximise on all of that.

18:17

Exactly, and I do, don't get me wrong I love when, you know, people are like, Oh my low back pain is gone or subsided or I don't have that sciatica anymore. I do love helping people feel better, although that's not on me. That's because you came in and got adjusted and now your body is doing what it needs to do, it is not me. I, one of my business affirmations is always I facilitate healing, I'm, you know, the body is doing everything that God had intended for and it's this amazing and beautiful thing, but one of my favorite things I hear is that there's a better self awareness, I think that is one of the most profound impactful things, I have heard and I yeah I even love the better you know fetal positioning and better birth outcomes but it's that little aspect of oh just that self awareness that almost that empowerment, you know that you can reach out and someone it's that aspect where it's like you know what you do, like the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy, you do have all the power within you. It just, we just got to bring it out and so that is one of the I think that's one of the biggest compliments I've ever heard as far as like,

19:31

just that self awareness, that is beautiful and amazing, and I think the fact that you see yourself as this, you help teach and facilitate healing, not necessarily. You aren't the healer and you help people tap into that awareness is like incredibly invaluable and will last them a lifetime and so that's what makes you in my opinion a superior chiropractor just like that's amazing and I hope people hear that and, and choose that that path and understand that potential and that with each type of care provider who you choose like this you're having a chance of tapping into that innate awesomeness that you're trying to have I,

20:13

I remember hearing that from my mentor, Dr. Pamela stone McCoy who actually teaches the Webster seminars now. And, you know, she, I remember I did my peak internship in her office and she even talked about that and it because it really is that understanding that the body needs no help. We don't need to help we just don't need any interference, we don't need that nervous system interference. And so, I don't know, I just try to remind myself

20:46

that every day on the office, and that's it's good for you to remind yourself it's also good for your, your patients to hear that too, instead of coming in expecting you to fix them. It's that, that autonomy and that that responsibility that I think is important for people to have when seeking care in any capacity is that that sort of approach of like my body knows what to do. I know what my body needs, and seeking the care that supports that. Yes, yes. So I heard you say that you focus on teaching and facilitating healing with your, with your pain patients and I also heard you say that you spend 99 zero minutes with them, and that you do a Cairo one on one with them so tell me a little bit more about what it's like. So say I'm a new patient. What does that look like.

21:39

So yes, I spend, I do I spend 90 minutes, it's probably not cost effective on my end at all, but I have not been able to master getting that any faster, because my office is different than some other offices, especially when people come in, who've been to a chiropractor before. It's, it's small, I have 200 square feet it's me and my table, and it's not a big open adjusting area there are some offices that have you know a waiting room over here and there's no walls and it's a bigger open adjusting area or many walls, or several doctors, all those type of things, there's lots of different office setups but, um, this is what works for me, and by My energy. But yeah I do I spend 90 minutes. And we do a detailed health history, and I think that's so, so important. I can't tell you how many times people are like, Oh well, I did forget about this or I didn't think about this, or this is my favorite well it doesn't really pertain to this exam but I did have a concussion or I did break this bone or I did this this this this this and I that is part of that educational processes in like, hey, it's all connected in the body so everything that's happened. It's still there, a little bit, right, like it's still there so we go into the detailed health history. Then I pause and like I said I do my Cairo 101 for everyone, and that's when I just go over that spinal health and what I'm how I'm subluxation based and so that subluxation is when you have segments of the spine that don't line up properly as they should due to macro and micro traumas, and when we have a disrupted nerve signal so that Brain Body Body brain connection is disrupted, and so we go into that a little bit more. And then, I do too. I do, nervous system scans in the office so I use something called the Insight technology from the chiropractic Leadership Alliance, and it's, it's this amazing technology that really appeals to my analytical data side of my mind because I like I like the data and I like to see progression, not just through how you're feeling, you know, not just a pain scale but also looking at nervous system functions so we do I do a temperature scan, and a motor scan, and I go over those. As far as what I'm looking for and how I'm able to assess the autonomic part of the nervous system, and that motor part of the nervous system and it's very I simplified, it's not like I'm trying to, you know, teach to a doctor level class but to help people again, understand their bodies, a little bit better. So we look at those scans and then any orthopedic neurological tests that we need to do that are relevant to the exam as well. And, you know, if I have to refer out for X rays or for fractures, it's, it's, you know, that's all part of it in that initial exam so yeah, they just take a bit

24:53

more so what I love about that is, how much time you spend, first of all, and how, how you see the importance of looking at the whole, like, you know you're really getting a lot of information about them, you're sharing, you're helping teach them and educate them about the process and then you're assessing their body and then identifying if there's any point where you need to refer out like that sort of responsibility. I just think that that is tremendous and sounds very detailed, and I think people knowing that helps be like oh wow they really are like they, you know, go through this huge process and it's very beneficial to your care to ensure you have the right individualized plan it sounds like.

25:35

Well yeah, because I can't want this enough for someone like I can't invest in it for them. Now I can give you my all, as a doctor and a health care professional, and a mom and a friend, you know, all of those things I can, I can give you that energy and that's what I do, because it is very zapping, but I can't want this enough for people. And so it's like you, you've got to, I don't know, I always told him like man this stuff works when you come in and get adjusted, like I don't know how many times I said that because people like oh yeah I feel great. I'm like, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised, you know, right, it's but it's because you're coming in, and we're talking about other things or making other changes in our lives that help as well and I go over those five pillars of health that I have for everyone. It's not just pregnant people but it's you know sleep on nutrition and exercise and mindset, and chiropractic care, because we within my teaching I learned the three T's and these are the three causes of subluxation. That starts traumas toxins, you know so thoughts, thinking, thinking, how is that because that totally affects your body, because I have people that come in with low back pain, because they did not do a proper squat or they bent over to pick up a laundry basket and then I people that come in with low back pain, because there is previous mental trauma that is stored there. There's a difference. And so I, you know, the it is psychosomatic pain is very real. And you know we go over those those thoughts and pay attention to that and try to listen to that with people and then toxins, what are you eating and drinking and breathing because that can affect how your body can process things. Yeah, and traumas, big and small, but then, you know, now we've added in that technology is also trauma and not in only the fact that like Tech's neck and imbalance in the posture, but also looking at that kid. I don't know have you watched the news lately like that can totally impact your health and wellness as well too. And then, now another T and there's tribe, and this is one of my favorite ones that I learned recently is that's your microbiome, that's your gut bacteria, because that directly communicates to the brain as well. And so now we got the five T's five T's I'm writing this stuff. But this, these are little things, I go over in office so yes you can come in and get adjusted and I want this but I also want some of these other things for you too and so again I can't want it enough for people, but to really just help them see gosh we're so beautifully and wonderfully made, and to really try to facilitate that healing and try to help them. I don't know understand the beauty within that,

28:30

yes, and that is so beautiful and so important and that's what I want people to hear is that it's not just a chiropractic adjustment you, it's this much larger picture and it's just like, okay, that whole we're going to take small bits at a time and you help people see and evaluate the things that are impacting their overall health, like you said this five T's and helping them sort of make micro changes over time so that they can live and be healthy and thrive for a very long time and I think that is a gift and more people need it, and I know not everyone prioritizes it but I'm here to tell you prioritize it. I'm sitting up straighter just having this conversation. Yes. Every time we I say something off about posture, I can see someone like change their posture. Oh yeah, I love it I love it. Shoulders are bad my Corazon Alsop right, it may only last a few minutes, but it's happening, but it's that body awareness, we are aware, well every little bit like you said, every time they come in they become more aware of that that overtime builds up to transformation. Okay. Oh, go ahead. Sorry,

29:38

no and I was gonna say, you know, I never want to come across as like holier than that like I do all the things perfect and everything in my life is wonderful no like I preach these things because I need to hear it still too, you know like I fall off the diet bandwagon, you know, I, you know, I, I struggle with things too, but it's that awareness and knowing okay I can jump back on. I can take care of myself. And let me go to these avenues to do it, then that horse, I don't know

30:09

but it is yeah it is not about like it, and I'm not hearing this when you say then it's like, oh, you have to live the certain way I live the certain way in order to, to be your best self, and I hear you say, being aware, helps you make better choices and know what to do when things go sideways or when, when you're not making the best choices or whatever so you helped by choosing to seek chiropractic care, and that becoming more aware of your body, and being aware of the five T's like you've said and considering all those things, it helps you make better choices down the line. And I always say, I always step sideways off of the path that I'm on as far as health and wellness and take these little detours and it's not about giving up it's about saying, Okay, how did that make me feel when I did that. How did I feel when I was, after I ate that ice cream cone or cheese. Oh that pimento cheese. Yeah, yeah, and lately has been for me, sitting on the couch, I've been working like after the kids go to bed sitting on the couch and like a reclined position, and I have my laptop in my lap and when I get up off the couch, I'm in like, the worst pain, my love are bad, it's just not a good position to be working in for any amount of time and so it's like even that I'm doing that right before bed. Like, it's not just about eating the right things, it's just, it's everything. And so, being aware I'm aware of that and I can make incremental changes so I think that's what we're talking about and that's what you're talking about here just like that awareness and then okay what do I do next. Yeah I would say, do the next best thing. Don't worry about the bad step, just do the next best thing that you know, to do, and it'll ever do back on the bath.

31:53

It is and it really, you know, I had someone the other day and it was kind of like okay so I you know, we looked at her temperature scan and there was some temperature imbalance here so what, what can we look at what are some things that we maybe think of and change and it can be overwhelming, and so I always go back to like what's the one, what's 1% better. I've heard that and multiple failure. I don't remember where that's from. I'm not claiming that as like I came up with it but if that 1% And so it's like, maybe you drink a one more glass of water, instead of a soda maybe you take the stairs instead of the elevator maybe you park farther away, maybe you know all of those things maybe you take five minutes of meditation for yourself, because those little things add up.

32:38

Yep, and being in your practice you help people be aware of that and I think that is another awesome benefit outside of just the chiropractic adjustment. And that leads me to my next question I think you've shared a lot of it here but besides like that hands on stuff and besides the stuff you've already shared what are other ways you help expecting Manas.

33:02

Um,

33:03

I have lots of resources, and we go through exercises and things I've got as knowledgeable as, as you are as far as some of those labor and birth positions I don't necessarily go into that but it's more of you know can we spend some time on all fours, gentle yoga movements, I like to help women wherever they're at with that fitness journey you know if you've already been exercising let's try to maintain this if you want to add in something else I want to mention birth fit which is an amazing opportunity for women and I'm hoping at some point I can do an interview with one of the women there because there's a Dr. Shane and Dr. Christian Dr. Ashley are amazing, but because they've got some pillars of health and things as well too. But it's really, it's checking in and saying okay how we went about this appointment the resources of like what do you want out of this birth and I always ask you in the exam like what is your what is your ideal thing just to get an idea of where someone is at and what information they're saying now I do always give them a birth survey because, and I do try to check in and see are there things that we haven't talked about, that you want more information on or maybe I haven't even mentioned it and you want more information on, Because I always throw out a lot of information anyways and so my main focus is on the, like I said, pelvis and sacral alignment, but I don't try to like push other information on anyone, but if they circle something on there, whether they're wanting to talk about circumcision or birth positions or doulas or midwives or whatever. That way I can at least say hey let's go into this or breastfeeding help you know those, those type of

34:53

things, but so you do that on the birth survey, yeah right

34:56

okay cool to come in with their interest and then,

34:59

yeah, just to, yeah, just to see or maybe they see a word on there and they're like oh I hadn't really thought about that so then maybe they go to their doula and they're like, Oh, I heard I saw this word you know or something. I do try to, you know, touch base there I have so many wonderful local resources for everything. That's what I thrive on as well, too is like that verse support team. Yes, because what I love, and what I have found has been the most impactful for people coming in is when I can work directly with a care provider, and they know what I'm doing I know what they're doing and finding, and I just feel like the outcomes are so much better with that. And I think of that mostly with some of the newborns and latching issues that I've worked with because there's amazing lactation consultants in the area who know amazing anti and pediatric dentists who are able to do revisions who you know who know craniosacral therapists who do a little bit extra in the OT world like it's that whole thing there and when you're all communicating, I can say hey I'm finding this tightness in TMJ and the left side here could be impacting nursing, and then we're talking about well, the baby is fussy at this point in time and maybe the flow is too heavy for a mom and just, It's all of these things and I think I've just seen such wonderful outcomes when that communication is open so that's something else that I get I don't know if that's like a direct resource or

36:30

I don't know it's a collaboration, a collaborative care system and your efforts to ensure that you're familiar with the local providers who are adjacent to you so like, they're not doing the same thing but they're doing something that is also helping the patient but when you guys are in communication and working together, that's when the patient experiences, optimal care, and I see this in the, in the doula world to when, when I see midwives and bees and doulas and nurses, all communicating, collaboratively, that's when the patient is best taken care of so exactly I hear what you're saying and I think that's a tremendous benefit and a tremendous resource and another reason to use you because you value, and you you prioritize those relationships so that you can have that collaborative care when possible. And then that's a good referral system too, so knowing if someone comes to you and they are maybe having challenges that would seem like a lactation consultant or an occupational therapist would help, then you can refer out and vice versa. And again, that's engineering, that's not saying you can do, and fix all the problems that saying, Nope, I can fix x y and z or help with X y&z But if it's this then this other person can help and then that's how we piece it all together it's not always just like, oh, you go to this one place and it's everything so your awareness of that and your willingness to be proactive in those relationships is I think very beneficial to your patients, and the Gavi,

37:58

yeah, I know and then with, um, I guess along the lines of, You know what other things. I offer or whatnot. I do try to focus on that postpartum care as well too and so I do have, if a mom has been under care during her pregnancy I do get a little postpartum gift package. When she comes in for that postpartum visit yes so and I've teamed up with amazing local resources so there's mother's milk tea in there so that's from an amazing herbal expert and massage therapist prenatal massage therapist in the area and then, you know, a flaxseed compress that you can heat up and that's from another amazing massage therapist and childbirth educator and doula in the area too and just little, little things to support mom so that's about the only thing I try to do the things I love this

39:02

guy has a lot and that's amazing. And that leads me to one of my questions about seeing you after the birth so when do you like to see your patients after they've given birth.

39:15

When mom is ready. I, you know, And I have a lot of chiropractic friends that do home visits and man, I love that. And maybe that's something I do is I just haven't figured out the logistics of that just within my own life. Right, yeah, like interfaces, but because that ideally to me, is even more optimal because you're allowing mom to lie in but yeah I know I would love to adjust her earlier rather than later. So I tried to be graceful with mom and just kind of like when, when are you ready to come out and be seen and I love when it's like, oh, this was my first outing I'm like yeah so my first outing was like that makes me so happy like.

0:00

You did it, that's all you got to do today just coming home like baby steps, but, um, I do. That is, you know sooner rather than later. And a lot of that has to do with I know I personally. So after my first obviously, again it wasn't adjusted with my first pregnancy, and I'm a runner, and I love to run and so starting that postpartum running journey I had this like persistent hip pain and couldn't understand why or what was going on and I just don't think everything got lined up properly, as you know the relaxin is leaving the body and as we're coming back into our shape because obviously it took us nine months to get there so like it's going to take a while to get back to that but I'm realizing that hey, maybe, maybe things were a little bit off some muscle imbalance subluxations like all of that so I love to really focus on that and focus on that healing process and you know what's really cool is, so I do. So the nervous system scans that I was talking about those I do those at re exams because we check in to see okay yes people are feeling better, but how is the body functioning so then I want to look and compare new and old scans and see what kind of differences we have and so part of my postpartum re exam. Is that so I do require that re exam after baby because things are completely different than and some fun things I've noticed is Mom will come in and she'll be fine and feeling good, and healing well, but I look at this autonomic nervous system, it's showing me we still have a lot of stress in the body and like maybe we need to take it a little bit slower. You know, I know you're feeling good, but like still give your body some rest and then come to find out, well there was still some, some bleeding going on and we're six weeks postpartum and that type of thing so it's like, I love using that to say okay yeah you do still need a little bit more rest and everybody's postpartum you know journey is different but it really, I don't know I look at it as helping that body kind of reset to that, that new normal because you are forever changed. Right after that, so, um, yeah, I just I do love the postpartum time because I do like to try to focus a lot. I'm on I mean yes we talk about baby, but I do try to focus on mom a whole

2:19

bunch, and that's a very important time that mom does need that focus and the focus tends to shift to the baby which can't argue with that being very real and understandable but prioritizing the care for the mom and that's why I'm was like postpartum when, when my clients for example who were maybe seeing having chiropractic care during pregnancy kind of fall off because that'd be just becomes a lower priority because they're focused on the baby and I'm like, to best take care of that baby, you've got to take care of yourself. And that means going to the chiropractor, you know, seeing, you know just prioritizing all the things that are going to make sure you're doing well and so knowing that you're looking at like their hole, and I know you even sort of assess kind of mental, like, you know, at least give them a chance to express any sort of struggles they're having mentally or emotionally, so that if you can refer out for that. You do that and you're looking at their whole body and and advising them in a different way than they might get advice from their care provider. And so I think that's really valuable postpartum I just wanna encourage anyone who just had a baby to just remember to do this, so that they can get it yourself, you do. Yeah and it's easier said than done, it is it is head so just here to remind everyone of the importance of it and I have lived experiences from benefiting it I've seen my clients benefit from it. I hear stories all the time so I think it's, it's very important, and I love, love what you do and I love the ripples that you are putting out into the world with the work you're doing and changing care and health and wellness for mamas, I do want to ask you also about your mom hikes. Yeah, I have four that stems from your practice. That is such a gift, so would you share with us a little bit about your mom hikes.

4:18

Yes, so this was a spin off of something from icpa, again that's that international chiropractic Pediatric Association, they put out a magazine called Pathways to family wellness. It's one of my favorite magazines, actually that magazine, I got from my chiropractor I read an article in it, bought the book that the article was about, and then went back to chiropractic. This magazine, every time I get it in, I'm like, Oh, I love this magazine agree it's well, it's so good but it's, it's chiropractic base but it's not just chiropractic articles so it's got other things in there holistic health care practitioners, just local bloggers mommy bloggers homeschool talks I mean, Dad help everything like it's just, it's a wonderful I think parenting resource. And what they do is they talk about, they have these pathways meetups where you try it you form these mom groups so moms from chiropractic offices can come in and you talk about some of those articles. And so Dr. Pamela stone McCoy she has one of the ones in Kennesaw so they come and you meet and you just talk about some of the articles you bring your kids don't bring your kids like that type of thing. Well, I just did my own like spin on it, and decided to just do some mom hikes and so try to, I try to do just one a month, and I pick a day I don't ask anybody what day works best because you'll never find a time that bad pick a day that works with my schedule, and I move it around and part of that came about to from I had a lot of moms come in the office early on that were new to the area, so they also didn't know anything about where they were so where were the parks and places to go, where were the hiking trails and they didn't really feel comfortable going by themselves so I that was another kind of thing of like why don't I just start this and so sometimes we talk about magazines, sometimes it's sometimes, I mean we talk about all kinds of things. My kids were able to come last year just with like schooling changes or whatnot, which was pretty awesome, except when they would fight like every time but like you can't argue this in public but. So it's kind of Abdun flowed. But yeah and I mean sometimes I've had no mom show, you know, and I still go I'm like my kids were there I'd still go and hike it still get my stuff and then some mom sometimes I've had, I don't know I think the biggest one I had maybe like six or seven moms, and maybe wonderful was essential and maybe like, 15 Kids are wow I don't know so sometimes it can be chaotic, you know you're all over the place and you're on these trails but we've found some local trails, and I don't know, it's what's been really cool to seeing those mom friendships form though too,

7:06

so you bring you bring people in similar life stages together and help them form. The relationships that are so hard to achieve. Otherwise,

7:20

yeah I'm like I'm just gonna provide a time and a space and you know if people can can come and come so yeah so just keep just keep doing them. Yeah,

7:29

they're awesome. I've been to a couple and think they're so fun and what I love about them. Besides connecting with other mamas, is how you pick different parks in different areas to go walk around that people like at the last one I went to people were like I have driven by this so many times and didn't even know this was back here, And by you showing them and by doing it with them. It takes that fear of trying it alone away and they're more likely to go back and so that's sort of like getting outside getting active being in nature, trying new things like you're totally helping people achieve that, as well as connection with other other mamas and so I think that's super cool that you do that and I'll never forget when you shared that you put it on your vision board, and you sort of manifested this vision of bringing moms together and I think that's super cool. Yeah,

8:19

I do think that was on my vision where I was like, I don't know why I put this picture all these moms pushing strollers, but my vision board, But I was like, I don't know, something speaks to me and then there you go.

8:28

So cool. And also if you are not a current patient of Dr Shannon's go check out her website, she's got a blog with tons of resources and information there as well as you can sign up for her newsletter, where she shares her newsletter I get her newsletter, I subscribe from I unsubscribe from most newsletters, I am fully subscribed to Dr Shannon's newsletter because it is beautiful. Helpful has resources and information about many aspects of life, it's not just like talking about chiropractic care. And so, super cool sign up for that and you can get information on the mom hikes and you can get information about things that are happening in her office, as well as health and wellness tips, and if there's like a new blog post out, she'll share that. So, go subscribe you won't regret it. It's awesome. Do you have anything else that we haven't covered that you would like to share and leave us with, um,

9:27

I don't know I just I do have such a love and appreciation for, I guess this whole journey and how I have ended up to where I am and it's it's such an honor to work with moms that's something I never, I never want to take for granted and so I am always so appreciative of it and I do, I just want people to understand the power that they have, and to really be able to tap into that and, you know, make chiropractic care part of that wellness function, and that wellness aspect of their life, and especially with that prenatal care, because, and I think we've talked before too about how birth can make an impact on mom for a lifetime but also generations to come because it impacts baby as well and so I think when we can support, labor and birth. We can make lasting change and we really can change the world with it so

10:34

that is beautiful and I think we share that in common with the work we're doing and I think that's why we enjoy doing this, and sharing about it on this podcast because we have that bigger vision and see the long term potential benefits of this work and so what you're doing is amazing and I'm so thankful for you letting me interview you today. We mentioned many resources and this episode we will link them all in the show notes. I will remind you to maybe go peek back at episode three, which is building your birth support team, where we talk about finding a chiropractor prenatally, as well as doula hiring a doula and your care provider and all of that. I also wanted to mention our the pillars of a healthy pregnancy episode which is episode number five, which also Dr. Shannon mentioned here is something she covers with her patients. And so you can learn more about what that looks like and Episode Five. And if you're wondering how you can afford, chiropractic care if it's not covered by your insurance or you, that's not, you know, I don't, I won't get into the insurance conversation but if you're just trying to find a way to budget for chiropractic care go see Episode 10, where we talk about budgeting for baby and that would include adding in those extra services that that cost money and that the it's there you just have to come up with the habits to help you kind of make it work. So, we will link the rest of the episodes and or the rest of the resources in the Episode Notes. Thank you guys for tuning in today and we hope you have a beautiful day.

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