Ep 200: Rethinking Birth Plans: A Value-Centered Approach

In this episode of the Aligned Birth Podcast, hosts Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachel discuss the concept of value-centered birth planning. They emphasize that traditional birth plans can be rigid and unrealistic, and instead advocate for a flexible approach that that's value driven, not outcome based. The conversation covers the importance of education, communication with birth teams, and the role of doulas in supporting a positive birth experience. The hosts encourage listeners to actively participate in their birth journey and to view their birth plan as a tool for informed decision-making rather than a strict checklist.

Transcript

Transcript

Aligned Birth Podcast (00:01.602)

Hello friends, you are listening to the Aligned Birth podcast. You have both hosts here today. I am Dr. Shannon, prenatal chiropractor. Dula Rachel is here as well. I always forget what to say for you, Dula Rachel, because you're a homage child with educator, patient advocate, Dula, like there's lots of things that I could say about you, but we're both here today and we have a birthy topic. We've talked about this before.

probably several episodes, I can't remember. But this is a different spin on it in birth planning. so kind of the aspect of that a birth plan is a myth, but value centered birth planning works. And so what is value centered birth planning?

And I think some of it it is it's the the nuances of the words of like birth plan and what the word plan Means and like the intentions behind it and what that looks like. So I think that's kind of I Mean, we do these intros before the show. So I am assuming this is maybe where we're gonna spend some time talking about What it could look like Besides the word plan and maybe not making it not so rigid

or structured or controlled as well because birth is unpredictable. And so we have to lean into that. But as we've always said in our other episodes that the process of creating the birth plan is always important. So that's where we want to come today is what are the values that you want to create this ideal birth plan around. So I'm excited to maybe chat in a different way.

with you today about this. Hi, Rachel.

Rachael (01:57.838)

Dr. Shannon. Yes, this conversation we've had many times, but it is one I continue to have regularly with my clients and that every pregnant person will face at some point. If they haven't heard about creating a birth plan, they will. Someone will ask them, do you have a birth plan? The provider will ask them, are you creating a birth plan? Do you have a birth plan? You know, and then you might be like, I don't know. Or you might be like, yes, I have everything fine tuned and written out.

And I really like talking about the birth plan as like a educational tool, a communication tool, just such an opportunity for growth and learning versus just like a checklist. And so what our little like hot take here is, is that, you know, birth plans aren't guarantees. OK, they are starting points for a lined decision making.

And so that's how we want to talk about it. that's, mean, that's how I talk about it regularly with my clients. I know we've always aimed for this very nuanced conversation around birth plans and all of our other episodes. This isn't too off base from how I've talked about it, but want to really add in the value centered component when it comes to birth planning.

We want to teach parents how to plan effectively while staying flexible and focusing on their values rather than rigid plans or preferences. Because sometimes if you haven't done the foundational work to understand the components of what go into a birth plan and you treat it just like this has to happen or else.

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:38.047)

in this way, in this order, and if it doesn't happen this way, I'm not gonna be happy. I think when we tie the outcome or what, our feelings to the uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah.

Rachael (03:42.103)

Right.

So like achieving a birth plan. Yeah. If we have to achieve something on a birth plan in order for that to be a win or a satisfying birth or for it to be counted as valuable or valid, you're missing the point. So that's why we wanna kinda talk about it again and bring in the component of focusing on our values and centering those versus

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:02.977)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (04:15.628)

being so rigid. And so I'm excited to do that with you today.

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:17.057)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:22.925)

I know. If I have a mom come in the office trying to think how I ask, because I don't necessarily go over the creation of a birth plan with moms in the office. mean, other prenatal chiropractors might do a whole range of things. I just know I will ask certain questions to get an idea of where they're at based on how they answer.

You know, so like if they answer, I really want to avoid having an epidural or I want to avoid having a cesarean or just just little clues into how they answer then looking at like education tools and nuggets to drop in along the way, but I'm usually not the one sitting with them or saying the education piece of it now when Have I don't know how to like I was gonna say have you seen

things go awry with having a rigid birth plan or like how does that kind of backfire on moms, you know?

Rachael (05:33.9)

Yeah, yeah, we see it. We work really so closely with our clients. We don't see it a lot because if someone, you know, we're meeting with our clients prenatally and if someone is coming with some very rigid expectations around their birth plan, we're like, okay, we're going to dive deeper here and figure out what's going on.

Aligned Birth Podcast (05:40.77)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (05:54.284)

Yeah, the root of where that rigidity is coming from. Is it fear based or something like that? Was there trauma from before? Lack of knowledge. Yeah, okay.

Rachael (05:58.102)

Yeah, is it fear? Yeah, is it fear or lack of knowledge? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's usually one or the other or you know trauma And so we want to extrapolate that and like talk about it and then paint a better picture for them so that they can lean More into that flexible mindset versus a rigid mindset but where we see it can go awry is for example, if someone is They do not want an epidural

Aligned Birth Podcast (06:06.284)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (06:27.758)

And they're like, I don't want it. I'm scared of being, you know, confined to the bed. I'm scared of harm to the baby. I'm scared of being forced to push on my back or, you know, fill in the blank. And they end up maybe having a long early labor where they haven't slept in 24 or 36 hours. And in their mind, they're battling themselves about

Aligned Birth Podcast (06:56.077)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (06:56.95)

what they should do and at that point when you are extremely fatigued, you're firing off all kinds of cortisol and adrenaline to stay awake and to keep going and that's very counterproductive to the hormones of labor and at that point, and we don't know the why or how sometimes labors are long or we can't rest or you know.

Aligned Birth Podcast (07:11.213)

you

Rachael (07:19.234)

That's no right or wrong there, it just is. Sometimes labors are long and exhausting and based on where it starts and if you've had good sleep leading up to that, it can really play into your psyche and your ability to continue to labor efficiently. But if they are internally fighting themselves or judging themselves already about needing an epidural, it's just a harder hump to overcome.

when we see it as a tool and in those situations where you've done everything you can to get through to that point in your labor and now you really your body needs to rest and getting an epidural effectively does that. So you know they they might have a lot of judgment of themselves if they hadn't prepared in a different way if they had really been like I can't get it I've for all those reasons I listed before or I don't want it or

Aligned Birth Podcast (07:59.567)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (08:05.506)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (08:14.186)

I feel like I'm strong enough. I should be able to do this. I've done a lot of hard things in my life. I can do this. And then they are needing the epidural that can, if you haven't done that work ahead of time, it can leave you feeling very judgmental of yourself and like you're not good enough, which is not the case. And so in that instance, to me that has backfired.

Aligned Birth Podcast (08:33.186)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (08:37.144)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (08:37.954)

because the work wasn't done leading up to it to where we see the epidural as a tool. I want everyone to see everything on the birth plan as a tool available to you. And if needed, if and when needed or if and when you choose, you should have that availability to access it, even if originally you thought you didn't.

want it and it's okay to have that original preference because some might say well in this scenario why would I even care why would I even

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:04.29)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (09:09.624)

care to have a preference about it. And it's just, matters to have a preference. It matters to like dig in and figure out your why, why do I want this for each of these things? So, cause without the roots to it, we really can't be flexible at all. And we need to be flexible in birth. So we really want you to have a deep why into all of the components of your birth plan and your birth team and your expectations. But then we want you to stay flexible through it all.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:23.86)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (09:38.284)

we think that that's the best way to navigate the path.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:38.627)

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I definitely, I definitely resonate with kind of everything you said.

No, I guess I'm just thinking of, there's just so many levels and variations of what I see in the office too of moms and that level of preparation, but there's so much of just like, well, I've got my birth location, I'm birthing at a hospital with an OB and it's like, okay, I'm done.

And that was kind of me way back in the day. like, didn't know there were all these other things or options or thoughts or whatnot. And so it's, if you are going through the birth plan, you get exposed to other words and things that you maybe didn't know about. So if someone is looking at doing a birth plan, what would be the crux of the value?

Centered is that do you look at the planning in a different manner because we've talked about it in The like the reverse engineering of things too of like, okay How does how do we want to feel what is what's the end result? And then how do we work back from that? is there a little bit of that in looking at this birth planning and the value centered way? Is there a little bit of that in this or what does that look like?

Rachael (11:17.058)

Yeah, the reverse engineering is still helpful. Like figuring out like your why and like how you want to feel through the process and at the end and on the other side of this and work backwards is absolutely a way to kind of come up with the initial, you know, your initial preferences and working from there. The value centered part comes in and that's and the way we do it is that and we we

picked this up from Intentional Birth, we took their advocacy training and this is how they taught us about doing birth planning with our clients. And at the top...

it one it gives especially this is in all of my scenarios it's there's a doula right so it gives permission for the doula to be present and to to interact with the care team to have be part of the conversation essentially which is important and then from there it is defining their core values and those go right at the top and we center those because if we focus on our core values

Aligned Birth Podcast (12:04.141)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (12:28.624)

And that's kind of like how do you want to feel through this process? What's most important to you because what's most important to me is not most important to you? And so some examples of that is like emotional safety privacy autonomy Time are like patients Having support freedom of movement

Aligned Birth Podcast (12:31.564)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (12:37.196)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (12:50.558)

know, medical technology. Some people have a high value of medical technology. And so if that's important to you, then we want to know that. We see a lot of people say they want an unmedicated, low intervention birth.

Or maybe they know they want an epidural, but they still want low intervention otherwise. you know, we see a lot of those same phrases used, but if I ask them, if I ask each person who has given me generally the same wants, what their values are, they're going to be different. And if you don't know, like how we do it is we give you some, we plant some seeds of like, here are some things that are values, like emotional safety, autonomy, support. Yes.

Aligned Birth Podcast (13:24.451)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (13:31.978)

Mm-hmm. I was about to ask, do you have like a list? Because it'd be hard to be like, I don't know, give me some prompts. Mm-hmm. And then you're like, yeah, no, that means a lot to me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (13:37.492)

Exactly. Yes, you have some prompts and with some prompts you're like, yeah, that is really important to me. You know, time to make decisions, privacy, things like that because those can be protected almost always throughout the whole process. So

Aligned Birth Podcast (13:56.512)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (14:00.256)

it's not like if if you ended up maybe getting an epidural when you originally didn't want one are you more satisfied with that whole experience because during that time you felt like you had your values protected.

You felt like you had informed and shared decision making. You felt like the power was in your hands. You felt like, you know, you tried X, Y, and Z to avoid it and you ended up there. So like if you end up there and your values are protected, we feel like an IREX really lived experience that people are more satisfied with their births. We walk a lot of different paths with people and some end up highly medicalized when that wasn't their original intention. Most people

coming into birth don't intentionally want a highly medicalized birth. That's just, people don't default to that, right? So we work with a lot of people who initially feel like they wanna avoid a lot of this stuff based on what they've heard or what they've learned and end up needing or choosing a wide variety of interventions.

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:50.924)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:54.36)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (15:13.658)

And what we have found is that by focusing on their values and protecting their values and keeping them in the center of all of the decision making on the other side of it, they are more satisfied and feel empowered, regardless of what happened with the birth plan.

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:33.247)

It's reminding me of sometimes if I'm trying to make a decision on something and I'm looking at it like, am I making this decision out of fear of one thing or am I making it out of like pushing myself out of my comfort zone into another area of like growth? I know that's...

I don't mean that in like the birthy sense, but do you see what I'm saying? Like it's kind of like a, how are we making decisions as well in the birth space? Because it's kind of like, okay, what do I value? And am I not doing that because of fear? Or have I done the education piece and tool? I understand this and now I can use this as a tool if needed. Like it kind of removes some of that, that came to mind.

Rachael (16:06.252)

Yeah, like.

Rachael (16:11.512)

Right.

Rachael (16:22.254)

100 % yes. If in that process of working through all the different interventions on the birth plan, if you're choosing something and it's based out of fear, right? Like that's going to be a hard expectation to quail. Like you, because the fear is so, so strong. So we have to, we have to work on pulling that fear, peeling that fear back.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:29.528)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:34.786)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:38.627)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:43.852)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (16:50.594)

feeling like the veil of fear, the unknown back. And it usually comes with leaning into education, leaning into understanding your options, verbally processing it. Cause everyone's fear about it could be different. Some people have fear about it just because they simply don't know anything about it. And some people have fear because their best friend had a really negative experience. Yeah. Or their own. We've had a client who had a really, really awful first epidural.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:56.77)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:02.219)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

They are teet peeping other people's stories. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:19.222)

Yes, I've seen that.

Rachael (17:19.666)

and it has completely influenced her decision making or coming into the second and third births. And that's real. And that's why when you work with a doula, at least for us, we process that. And if you don't have a doula, all I would just encourage you to do is when you're working through the different interventions on your birth plan, center your values, always keep those at the top and try to make the decision.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:26.968)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (17:47.51)

without fear and if you are fearful of x y or z you need to go deeper right you need to learn more you need to understand other options available so if you really are rooted in not wanting an epidural you can't just be like and i'm to throw caution to the wind like if i really am rooted in not wanting an epidural then we have to learn our other options for coping

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:54.243)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:11.416)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (18:12.246)

Right? It's not just like I don't want it. If I check this box on my epidural that are on my birth plan that I don't want it, then I'm not getting it.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:20.372)

Mm-hmm. That's yeah, that's not how it works. Yeah.

Rachael (18:21.986)

What? No, that's not how that works. And so we encourage it not being a checklist, it being an educational opportunity, an opportunity. And this is uncomfortable. usually it, and I can see it on people's faces when I'm like, okay, you just said you really don't want an epidural. Tell me more. And I can see their face like drain because it's scary to think about or leaning into like the deeper why. mean, birth is scary, right? It's unknown.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:39.981)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:49.73)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (18:50.974)

It doesn't have to be, but for a lot of people, for a lot of different reasons, it is. And so I like to talk about it in this way of like, let's go deeper and it might be temporarily uncomfortable, but in the end, you'll be going into birth with so much more confidence and know that whatever comes up,

So long as your values are protected and you're cared for and you're supported, I can almost guarantee you feel satisfied with that birth experience. And that's what matters. We know that's what lasts forever is how we are made to feel during our birth or how we feel on the other side of it. And can tell you for certain, it's not mode of delivery.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:22.08)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:31.095)

Yeah. Yeah. No. Drop the mic, Rachel. That was good. I think it allows for birth to not be something that's happening to you, but like with you. And so I know I, and I've shared my story before, but in my first birth, I felt like it was happening to me. And so it's a very different, although it was different.

Rachael (19:46.403)

Yes.

Aligned Birth Podcast (20:00.611)

birth second time around, but it was a different experience as well. And so I think that's the goal of the birth plan or even that value centered, you know, of just letting you be an active participant, but it requires you to, it requires you to do something. So I guess I've seen a lot of moms lately where, you know, they're busy.

Rachael (20:10.86)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (20:30.476)

whether they've already got kiddos or they're working or whatever it may be and we're pregnant and it's busy and it's a lot. There's a lot to do. There's these appointments that didn't turn into weekly appointments and all these people that you could have on on your birth team. But it's it's kind of like someone going to run a marathon and all that they've done is they've picked their race.

So know where they're going to run and then they have their shoes and there's nothing in between. Nobody ever says, hey, I'm going to run it and I'm not going to do any of these things to train or prepare. And maybe that's a little bit of, well, not everybody has run a marathon, so they know they need to train for it. But I feel like sometimes there's this birth of like, I should innately know or

Rachael (21:26.669)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (21:27.534)

It should come easy to me. I see this a lot with like breastfeeding or just those little shoulds in there. It still doesn't mean to not prepare. I don't know where I'm trying to go with that, but I just... Yeah.

Rachael (21:40.354)

Well, I mean, you can run without training, right? Like you can go run, anyone can go out and jog as long as you are physically able, like you have legs. But that doesn't mean you can go run a marathon.

Aligned Birth Podcast (21:53.238)

Right.

Rachael (21:53.486)

Like just because you can do things and just doesn't mean you shouldn't learn and that it could, and maybe you could go. actually read a story about this lady and I thought it was sounded awful. She went from zero to marathon and destroyed her body in the process. And I'm like, sure, could you? Yes. And I say all the time about birth. Could you just walk in and do nothing? Yes. Right. And could it go fine? Yes. Is it likely to go?

Aligned Birth Podcast (22:09.678)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (22:15.586)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (22:23.158)

Well, no, it's not. You have to to we we we deal with this a lot. So I want to just I'm trying to put a fine point on what you're saying is birth and breastfeeding are innate. We do have innate wisdom and innate capabilities that are enhanced with with education and support. Tenfold. And so

Aligned Birth Podcast (22:25.102)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (22:46.51)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (22:51.442)

I really feel bad for the people who should on themselves of like, should know how to do this. I should be able to do this without pain medication, but like to go through labor without pain medication and never have practiced coping or learned about your options for, for coping through contractions. think you're setting yourself up for a harder go at it. And, and, and then therefore maybe as they're suffering involved.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:06.03)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:12.641)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (23:16.718)

Is there, you know, mindset challenges? Are there are there interventions that occurred that maybe you could have avoided? You know, we don't know. But all I know is I've never met anyone who was like really upset about all the planning they did. Like, like all the education, like, you know, I've certainly met people who felt like they were too type A around something around it, but but not the OK, I'm going to gather information. I'm going to.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:30.508)

Yeah. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:37.742)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:42.259)

I read too much. Yeah.

Rachael (23:43.15)

build my support team. Yeah, like I never have I had that like experience where they're like, man, I really should not have taken that childbirth education class. Eight times out of 10, I'm gonna hear, I really wish I would have taken childbirth education with my first, or I really wish I would have hired a dual. I really wish I would have seen a chiropractor before 38 weeks.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:52.43)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:58.584)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:04.226)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (24:04.736)

you know, but once they know they're enlightened and then they can carry on and, you're never going to know everything. And it's just about the one step neck, like next best step, let the next stone unfold and turn itself. I started, mine goes way back to one tiny little documentary that like slowly over time, like I learned and I heard something, was like, all right, I'm going to go continue to learn about that thing. And then that introduced a new idea. And then I continued to learn about that thing and I'm still doing it. I just told you about my example about stages of labor. Like I'm still,

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:08.728)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:22.028)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:28.002)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:32.034)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (24:34.64)

trying to figure out ways to talk about this stuff and learn about it and learn how to connect with people so it resonates. I mean how many times can we talk about the birth plan but it's a common thing that people are going through and we want to make it effective. We want to make it a useful tool not just something you printed off the internet and took in and gave to the hospital. It's like okay make it happen you know and and then that's when I do feel like you might get negative feedback from the staff because it's like obviously you don't care. We do not have experience, I will speak for myself, in a hospital getting negative

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:41.208)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:52.45)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (25:04.56)

negative or negative feedback or resistance to birth plans because they're done intentionally. They are done with care and they are communicated with care, right? They they are in a way of building up the birth team, bringing everyone in, humanizing everybody, not being like rigid or hard or or combative. Like there's an approach. And so I hear those stories, too, where they're like, they totally disregarded my birth plan. I saw him throw it away.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:11.425)

Hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:23.298)

combative too, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (25:32.554)

And I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but I do feel like this approach is effective.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:35.182)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:39.168)

Mm-hmm. No, definitely so What does the communication look like of the plan or was there anything else you wanted to to speak on as far as? Creating that value centered plan

Rachael (25:49.004)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (25:58.092)

Yeah, the communication component is still there. We still think it's important to use it to communicate with your provider. I mean, first and foremost, your partner. So whether it be your spouse or trusted loved one who is going to be in the birth space with you, that you've gone through that with them. And especially if it's like the father, that they are part of that conversation and part of that learning and understand what you want and obviously have opportunity to express what they care about and want.

Aligned Birth Podcast (26:07.33)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (26:28.066)

shouldn't be just you. And the reason is that is because we want the birth the spouse or the birth partner to be the one in this hospital setting communicating the birth plan to the nurse and the provider and that they take their birth plan with intention and with compassion and respect and have an eye to eye conversation with the nurse and be like here's my birth plan we've worked hard on putting this together you know here's my doula Rachel she's part of our team she can be part

Aligned Birth Podcast (26:48.366)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (26:57.946)

of our conversations. We're really excited for today and we really appreciate your support. These are the things that are most important to us. We're going to begin with our values. Those are your values and then beyond that, you know, if things are going well and in our control, here is what we really want for our birds and we understand birds.

might go a different way, we're here to work together, but X, Y, and Z are most important to us. And you tell them line by line, you're in conversation with them, here's what's most important to me. And we try and get the partners on board with doing that because, mean, mom might be deep in labor, but we want that partner to be engaged in that way. So they need to be on board with the birth plan and that role.

Aligned Birth Podcast (27:19.8)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (27:35.874)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (27:45.71)

of being the guardian of the birth space. And it starts with using that birth plan as a way to engage in the topics at hand and bring everyone together. We're here to work together.

Aligned Birth Podcast (27:48.482)

Hmm.

Rachael (28:00.812)

We are not here to, like you said, be combative and that it starts with that. So it's kind of like there's this analogy my husband and I always talk about, ketchup in the in the seat when you go to sit down in a restaurant. Like if you slide in at a restaurant, there's ketchup in your seat. It like ruins the rest of your like skews the rest of your dining experience poorly. And so we're always like, that was a ketchup in the seat moment. Like it just like started off bad. And so we want to start off.

Aligned Birth Podcast (28:01.448)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Aligned Birth Podcast (28:19.106)

The whole thing.

Aligned Birth Podcast (28:25.198)

Heheheheh, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (28:30.314)

in a good way, in a positive way, get those communications just as well flowing. And then the other places with your provider, we do say, especially in practices where you're seeing a lot of different providers, use your birth plan as a way to go in and each time kind of talk about something different on your birth plan and ask them how they can support you in this. How do you support intermittent monitoring? How do you support a gentle induction? How do you support

freedom of movement during pushing. Like whatever it is that's really important to you, ask them how they support it when you ask it in that way it's open-ended and therefore you it's not just yes or no but they might shed some light on their philosophy on birth or how they can support you and if you do this early enough then you have a chance to kind of pick up on some yellow or red flags. Yeah, yeah and then adjust course accordingly. So definitely important important communication tool.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:16.008)

gauge the response. Exactly. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:24.736)

Yeah. I liked that. Especially that little example of communicating in the hospital because you're going to have labor and delivery nurses there that you have not met if you're obviously if you're in hospital setting. So there are going to be communication things that have to happen at that space. But then that communication tool with your provider, midwife, OB, whatever throughout it.

Rachael (29:38.092)

Right.

Rachael (29:52.012)

Yeah, and when the shift changes, you have that conversation again, you know, and you get more and more comfortable or if the provider shifts over to someone else, then you chat with them too. And that might sound exhausting, but again, this is one of the bigger, most important days of your life. And again, no one ever feels like I really wish I hadn't communicated. Like it's just isn't the feedback we hear. We do hear, really wish I had spoken up. So like.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:54.7)

Yeah, yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:16.59)

Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (30:17.622)

you know, so it's like we don't really hear about people regretting over speaking. Like, so it's like, yeah. And then we say do it with the new with your newborn nurse too, because the baby nurse comes in as you're pushing or delivering. And that's who you really want to talk to about all your newborn preferences. And a lot of people have them.

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:22.274)

the word. Yeah, putting in that work. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:39.022)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (30:39.758)

And so again, kind of having an intimate conversation with them when you can. Sometimes they'll come in and introduce themselves prior to the pushing stage, because obviously if you're in the throes of pushing, but you're not having that conversation then. But if you can have an opportunity to snag them ahead of time, it's worth it. Cause then you can go through and be like for us, know, we're, we're not doing eye ointment. We are doing vitamin K. And we would really like to, to stay skin to skin for like one to three hours after the birth. just, we would really appreciate your support in that matter. Again, we're not asking permission.

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:50.273)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (31:01.656)

some skin and skin.

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (31:09.858)

Mm-hmm

Rachael (31:09.872)

This is not permissive. None of this is permissive language. This is all about how can you support me? This is what we're doing. How can you support me in that? So nice little add-on there for the advocacy component.

Aligned Birth Podcast (31:22.411)

I know get it get it Rachel. I love it. I love it. it. it. let's see.

Do you have any stories or things that you can share, that you want to share, or any sort of experience that comes to mind from a birth plan or prep session or something?

Rachael (31:51.386)

one that comes to mind is really cool. This was a client who seemingly simple request, but we don't hear it a lot, but she really wanted everyone to refer to her by her name. not, not mama.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:07.338)

Hey mama, yeah, yeah.

Rachael (32:10.606)

and like our baby like we want baby's name used and mama's name and dad's name used and in the hospital setting they say mama and dad and baby to refer to the the birthing to the family and so right top front and center on her birth plan was please refer to me by my name and my husband's name and my baby's name and we put it on you know on the board and

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:13.442)

Hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:21.016)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (32:39.304)

everyone adhered. Like everyone, you know, but we, we told them, we were like, this is what you'll see, right? First timers, like they will say, baby, I'm on that as their default. This is why. but make sure when you have that initial conversation with them, like we've coached you to do, you tell them this is most important to us. And they did. And everyone was like, just like, you know,

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:42.789)

that's so fun. I love that.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:51.842)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:02.69)

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

Rachael (33:07.704)

totally respected it and it completely changed the energy in the room and I was like, I wish everyone did this. It totally changed. made it feel so intimate, so personal by simply using her name. And I just love that she knew that as a first timer never, but she had had a lot of medical experience in her life. So like she spent some time, know, so she knows like

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:12.142)

So personal.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:22.51)

Mmm, yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:27.689)

a history of medical work. Okay, yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (33:33.506)

But I just, I will share that as an example of like, here's how this can look and look at the outcome and can, you know, little, little things like that. and that's not a typical birth plan, like checklist, but you know, whatever you want to be on there, you know, like it can be, whatever's most important to you.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:45.442)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:53.005)

Yeah, it's, you know, it, think it really just boils down to the education that occurs while creating the plan and sometimes leaning into those, sometimes leaning into those things that you maybe don't want to learn about. Like, cause I kind of stuck my head in the sand, like a little bit like an ostrich and I was like, well, I'm not going to have a C-section, so I don't really want to like look over what that looks like or anything. And then,

Rachael (34:13.933)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:22.764)

and I ended up with one. It was too much new stuff in that time period to process anything. you know, sometimes you gotta face the ick. Doesn't mean that you're gonna bring it forth, but that knowledge is important. you don't feel blindsided because we want birth, you, want you the active participant in birth and that is not something happening to you. That's, I don't know, that's my two cents.

Rachael (34:49.346)

Yes.

I think that's a hundred percent the goal is we don't want this happening to you. That feeling does not feel good. and in part of the birth planning process is also leaning into like induction and to Syrian and other things that again, most people don't want. And they're like, I don't want to give it energy. And now we hear that a lot. Like I don't want to give the things I don't want energy. And I'm like, I hear you sis. I'm the same way. And I've learned that by giving it a little bit of energy, you'll get a mic.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:54.518)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:04.618)

Mm-hmm. Might feel icky to talk about. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (35:21.648)

out of it. So like it's worth a little bit of effort on the front end to lean into your options and and what all the different kind of paths it can go and so you nailed it with you know be that active participant don't let it happen to you that doesn't mean things don't happen in the birth space right that doesn't mean things still can't happen to you I'm not saying this a foolproof strategy it's just it's a good good effort.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:22.541)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:28.238)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:41.218)

That's right.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:45.698)

Mm-mm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:50.698)

Exactly, exactly. Anything else you wanted to add, my friend? With.

Rachael (35:57.07)

I think, you know, some people really always want like a template or something like that. And I will say, you know, working with us, you do get that we have a customized. It's all like everything I've said here, along with a whole workbook of like explanation of all the interventions. So I just wouldn't discourage what I'm trying to say is that would discourage trying to just go print off a template off of the Internet.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:02.136)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (36:22.028)

without some context and without a plan behind it.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:22.168)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:27.342)

Because what we talked about today is different than going and getting one off the internet. Because we're talking value centered, which you got to go, what are your values? Like it's kind of a, it's going to be different. Yeah.

Rachael (36:31.018)

Yes.

Rachael (36:36.358)

Yeah, it is different. So really try and instead of just finding like a cute template on the internet, which is fine, try to also get the meaning behind all of those. Like sometimes a really good quality childbirth education class includes a birth template. That way you take the childbirth education class and then at the end it's so much easier to put that birth preferences plan together because you have the education component.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:44.525)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:48.993)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:52.493)

Hehe.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:57.4)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (37:03.054)

Exactly. Exactly. I love it. Thank you for this conversation today. Yeah, I hope it was a new spin on the birth planning process and how impactful it can be. So thank you for your time, Rachel. And then thank you for listening, listeners.

Rachael (37:07.17)

Thank you.

Rachael (37:22.648)

Thanks, Gina.