Ep 191: Postpartum Preparation: More Than Just Surviving

Here are the takeaways from our Postpartum Thriving Kit:

• Postpartum is often misunderstood and requires more societal attention.
• Preparation for postpartum should start during pregnancy.
• Resting and caring for oneself is crucial in the early postpartum period.
• Physical recovery varies between vaginal and cesarean births.
• Lactation support is essential for breastfeeding success.
• Emotional well-being is as important as physical recovery.
• Professional support can help navigate postpartum challenges.
• Creating a comfortable environment aids in recovery.
• Having essential items readily available can ease the transition.
• Rest is a form of productivity during the postpartum period. Newborns require a lot of contact and sleep.
• Understanding the fourth trimester can ease postpartum challenges.
• Newborns typically do not sleep through the night for weeks.
• It's important to embrace the 24-hour clock mentality for newborns.
• Partner communication is crucial for shared responsibilities.
• Mental health strategies are essential for postpartum recovery.
• Anxiety can be common in the early postpartum period.
• Professional support can significantly aid in postpartum recovery.
• Breathwork and relaxation techniques can help manage stress.
• Building a supportive community is vital for new parents.

Transcript

Dr. Shannon (00:01.639)
Hello, hello, this is the Aligned Birth Podcast. We've got both hosts here, I'm Dr. Shannon and we've got Dula Rachel here. today's birthy topic is going to be the postpartum thriving kit. Kind of caring for yourself while you are also caring for baby. This is an important topic. We talk about this a lot, but not enough.

as well to like on the show, I feel like we talk about a lot and in our birth worker world, we talk about it a lot, but I don't think like society still talks about it enough or spends an adequate amount of time preparing mom's parents for the postpartum period. So we've got some things that we're going to hit on the show here as far as

building like physical and emotional thriving kit. So kind of some physical mental healing tools to use and then looking at just other ways to support yourself bringing in other people in kind of a meaningful and intentional way. So I'm excited to chat about this today, Rachel.

Rachael Hutchins (01:13.836)
Hi Dr. Shannon. I am as always so excited to be here and chatting with you and this topic means so much to me and it is one that I think we can't talk about enough and

Dr. Shannon (01:27.665)
Before we started recording, I was like, okay, so we've done this before. Should we talk about this? And Rachel's like, we don't talk about this enough. She's like, we're doing this, we're talking about it, and people don't talk about this enough. I was like, all right, here we go. But it's true.

Rachael Hutchins (01:34.895)
Hahaha

Rachael Hutchins (01:40.258)
Well, it's easy when you're very close to it and we live in the both of our jobs. It is, we're talking about it a lot. You're seeing a lot of moms postpartum. work with mom's birth and postpartum and it's, I feel like I'm beating a drum over and over and over again. So it can feel like, okay, sure. We have talked about this enough. Maybe we don't need to do it, but then I have to, we have to remember people need to hear it and they need to hear it over and over and over again, especially if you are.

planning on having a baby or you're pregnant, you know, and even if you're postpartum, this can still help you, but we are ideally catching people before they're in their postpartum phase. And so when we say postpartum, also hear this a lot, there's some misunderstanding about, because we talk about postpartum and a lot of people associate it with mental health, that postpartum is like a mental health disorder.

Dr. Shannon (02:33.532)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (02:37.48)
post it's always it always means postpartum depression or something and the postpartum is truly just that period of time from the time the baby's born until well really technically forever you are forever postpartum but we are really talking about those first three months the immediate postpartum it's the fourth trimester yes and it is it is an incredibly important time it is significantly under

Dr. Shannon (02:37.595)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (02:48.381)
I'm taking it forever, but yes.

Dr. Shannon (02:53.936)
It's another trimester. It's the fourth trimester.

Rachael Hutchins (03:06.67)
misunderstood and ill-prepared for and not really like society and I even think traditional medical practitioners aren't supporting postpartum in the way that it should be and so we want to bring attention to it we want to talk about it so that when you you as you're going through pregnancy or preparing to have children that you're like okay preparing for the postpartum is just as important as

Dr. Shannon (03:21.275)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (03:36.45)
preparing for labor and birth. And as a birth doula, we work with a lot of people who are putting a lot of emphasis and effort and energy and investment into the birth. And we are here for that. I am a birth doula. I want people to do that. But then the postpartum period is an afterthought. So we want you to prepare for both.

Dr. Shannon (03:38.653)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (03:47.911)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (03:57.308)
Yeah. And yeah, and it's when we title the episode, Postpartum Thriving Kit, like preparing for postpartum, like it's not that we're preparing for it like while you're in it. It's looking at what can you do during the prenatal time period to help set yourself up for success to thrive, not just survive postpartum.

Rachael Hutchins (04:10.999)
Ideally,

Rachael Hutchins (04:23.692)
Yep and while we will talk about some things that are handy dandy it really is less about the things because I think a lot of time during pregnancy it is spent on acquiring things like mostly for the baby gadgets and gizmos and clothes and all that is cute and adorable but really preparing for the things they're going to support you the mom

Dr. Shannon (04:34.471)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (04:38.833)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (04:50.126)
and help you build up your people around you so they can support you because your priority in the first three months after you get birth is resting, recovering, bonding with your baby and feeding your baby. That be it.

Dr. Shannon (05:03.389)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that should be it. Yeah. Yeah. how so how can you support yourself with that? How can we survive or thrive not just surviving that so I? Well, I didn't say it but we the title was gonna be the postpartum Survival kit and then Rachel was like what about thriving kitten? I was like, yes, please Because I don't want us to just survive. I want you to thrive

Rachael Hutchins (05:13.344)
Yeah, did we did you say that? you say we were gonna?

Rachael Hutchins (05:24.844)
Yeah, because we don't want you to just survive it. We want you to thrive and it is a hard period. That's the other thing I always want to bring to this is the honesty and transparency that it is one of the hardest. It can be one of the hardest transitions in your life and it's not just a day. It's a period of time. And so that's why it is. It's more challenging in certain ways than the birth because it's an extended amount of time.

Dr. Shannon (05:38.769)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (05:42.737)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (05:52.886)
And I think people are more surprised by how hard the postpartum period is than they are by the birth. And I don't say hard because I want to scare you. It's just a combination of so many things. Exhaustion, hormone changes, the demands of your baby, just the new life. There's so many things kind of coming together at one time. Many, many...

Dr. Shannon (05:59.87)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (06:08.006)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (06:20.061)
Lots of new things at once. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (06:21.74)
lots of new things at once and that can just be disruptive and it's a transitional time and there are many moments of joy. There's so much good there and I think having some of this thought process ahead of time will allow you more pockets of joy. I do not think there is one thing or a handful of things that you can do that will guarantee you a smooth sailing perfect postpartum. I do think that everyone has ups and downs in one way or another but having more moments of

Dr. Shannon (06:25.276)
you

Dr. Shannon (06:35.453)
Exactly.

Dr. Shannon (06:48.231)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (06:50.688)
joy and peace and comfort and confidence than if you didn't do some of these things or prepare in certain ways.

Dr. Shannon (06:58.318)
Exactly. So our first, one of the first things I want to talk about is the physical healing essentials. Again, I don't think this is going to be exhaustive, but some good things to focus on, especially dealing with, I mean, births are different. So obviously we have vaginal birth and cesarean birth. So both of those are going to give different

Rachael Hutchins (07:12.672)
No, certainly not.

Rachael Hutchins (07:28.376)
physical recovery.

Dr. Shannon (07:28.567)
Different focuses. Yeah, different physical recoveries and and everything there. So this is kind of a little bit of like the perineal and caesarian scar care as well too kind of putting those things in there. ice packs. I remember those ice packs like just putting them in your little mesh underwear afterwards and having that like healing aspect to it.

Rachael Hutchins (07:55.662)
So the mesh underwear are really kind of amazing. If you give birth in a hospital, take a few pair home with you. They're disposable. They offer coverage and they're like, they expand. and then like, don't have to worry about your own underwear. Now you can get your own postpartum underwear. You can do breathable depends. There's all kinds of like ways, but those mesh panties that you get in the hospital, I didn't mind them. Yeah. And so.

Dr. Shannon (07:58.874)
I love that mesh underwear. yeah.

Dr. Shannon (08:15.719)
Mm-hmm

Dr. Shannon (08:19.769)
Mm-hmm. I liked the mesh panties with the pad and the ice pack. Yeah. Yeah. I I thrived with that. I liked that a lot

Rachael Hutchins (08:27.138)
I didn't mind it at all. Ice for 24 to 48 hours after the birth to help with swelling and comfort. After 24 to 48 hours you shift to warm, like warm compresses, warm herbal sits bath.

Dr. Shannon (08:41.009)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (08:46.875)
I was going to say the sitz bath. Will you talk the specifics of a sitz bath? Like, what is it?

Rachael Hutchins (08:53.172)
Yes, so it's a standard sits bath is just Epsom salts and water and you put it in, you can put it in a, you do a little bit like a shallow amount. You don't fully submerge yourself in a tub or they make these like bowl things you can put on your toilet and sit. It looks like a training body. And so you can sit there or you can do it in the tub, but just like a little bit of water, just enough to like submerge the perineum, that area. and so,

Dr. Shannon (09:10.223)
It almost looks like a training potty type thing. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (09:20.177)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (09:22.978)
that's just Epsom salt. And then there's the next level, which I highly recommend, and that's doing an herbal sits bath. that's purchasing or making, acquiring healing herbs that are for postpartum recovery. And you can do them in a warm sits bath or one of our tips is putting them in a crock pot, like in your bathroom, wherever you're going to be, whatever floor you're on.

Dr. Shannon (09:50.609)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (09:52.076)
ideally in your bedroom and then put it put the crock pot in your bathroom on the counter and you put the herbs into like a stocking and tie it off and you submerge that and you let it steep and stew all day long and you can add more water and you add more salt as it kind of reduces and then put a washcloth into it take that washcloth gently wring it out and then lay that warm washcloth on your perineum.

Dr. Shannon (10:00.881)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (10:21.885)
Okay.

Rachael Hutchins (10:21.942)
So if you don't want to do a sitz bath, this is an alternative to that. And then you just cycle through that throughout the day. And it's always ready because it's in the crock pot.

Dr. Shannon (10:28.935)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (10:32.623)
I like that. I didn't do a sitz bath and I kind of wish I had. I think I tried and I was just like, I don't know how to do this. I was like, I don't understand. So that's yeah, that's why I wanted you to go to the specifics. I like that.

Rachael Hutchins (10:40.386)
Well, and that's where the warm compress is a lot easier to do. And it's honestly all the herbs are more healing. So I think there's many, many benefits. There's no real downsides. so that's the warm component and you can start the warm, like I said, 24 to 48 hours after the birth, do ice for the first, but then you don't want to keep doing ice. Okay. So, ice packs, if you get birth in the hospital, they have the quick.

Dr. Shannon (10:49.756)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (11:01.415)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Rachael Hutchins (11:09.63)
the quick break or whatever, shake them they get cold. I really like the homemade so once you get home you can do some DIY homemade freezer pot they call them pad sickles and so you take like a feminine like a period pad that's individually wrapped and then you soak it with witch hazel, 100 % pure aloe and some like organic lavender, essential oil.

Dr. Shannon (11:10.94)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (11:22.811)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (11:38.35)
and then you roll it back up and it's in its little wrapper and you can make, you know, a couple dozen of those and that'll last you a day or two. and you put them in the freezer. And so when you get home from the hospital or if you get birth at home, you can use these right away and you undo them and you put them in. And I like to put them inside of like a depends or something because they will melt, but they're also, it's a, it's an interesting combination because they are a feminine pad, so they will absorb, but then they've been frozen. So.

Dr. Shannon (11:58.002)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (12:06.712)
You can just find either laying on a towel or laying on a Chucks pad or putting the pins or something around it. I mean, now they have so many great reusable, washable maternity underwear or things like that. If you don't want to do depends. That's not the only way, but just something that's supportive and comfort or you can kind of slide that ice pack into it. But I love the DIY option these days though. I know Mama Frida has a whole postpartum like

Dr. Shannon (12:07.279)
Yeah, like the whole thing's been frozen.

Dr. Shannon (12:27.953)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (12:36.622)
and it includes some of those like ice packs that you can snap and shake and they get cold.

Dr. Shannon (12:40.099)
Yeah, I was going to say there's a lot of postpartum kits too that will provide, local people or whatnot.

Rachael Hutchins (12:44.162)
like kits like that. Yeah, but you don't have to go buy those. You really don't. You can make them at home. You can do the warm herbal sits bath, which you just buy the herbs like. So sometimes I feel like, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (12:56.52)
We got options. But I do think it's important to care for that area because it's been through a lot. So I would suggest doing something in there and don't just being like, this is overwhelmed. Ask for some help. Prep it beforehand. know, kind of like what you were saying with freezing the pads and all of that. Mm-hmm. Doesn't take much time, but it's worth it.

Rachael Hutchins (13:01.098)
yes that's the important thing something yes

Rachael Hutchins (13:10.294)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (13:15.104)
making the pads and acquiring the herbs. You know, a lot of times we'll tell people to acquire it during, you know, get those herbs ahead of time and then they're in the postpartum and they're like, wait, what was I supposed to get? So again, this is like those, the proactive nature will help you have a more healing and comfortable postpartum. But that area definitely needs tending to, it'll feel tender, possibly swollen. And you want to help get circulation there. You want to help reduce swelling.

Dr. Shannon (13:26.587)
right.

Dr. Shannon (13:38.139)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (13:44.578)
that'll reduce pain. Another thing too that can be really helpful is, my god it's spacing me, it's the homeopathic, you put it under your sublingual, you put it under your tongue, is for like pain and swelling, comes in the blue tube.

Dr. Shannon (13:44.878)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (14:06.397)
like an Arnica thing or okay. I was like, I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I love Arnica.

Rachael Hutchins (14:07.884)
Arnica. Wow, my brain just totally spaced. Arnica. So Arnica is really, it's a homeopathic for, for swelling. And like after my home birth, that was like a protocol for the postpartum was to do that. And I learned about that during that time as like a way to help for the swelling too. So

Dr. Shannon (14:16.249)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Pain relief, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (14:27.037)
Mm-hmm. Yes. I love Arnica. Making sure too, I think that we're not wearing really restrictive clothing as well too, because in that immediate postpartum and for a good time afterwards, you are still swollen. Yes, uterus is going down in size, but you still have a lot of fluid retention. You're not going to just bam, be right back.

to a pre-baby waist. so making sure that you do have the comfortable clothing still there. And you might still be wearing like maternity stuff for a minute as well too. And that's okay. Yeah, that's okay.

Rachael Hutchins (15:00.555)
No.

Rachael Hutchins (15:11.906)
I would say plan on wearing, yeah, your six month pregnancy clothes. Yes. Don't rush that.

Dr. Shannon (15:17.809)
But don't try to, don't be restrictive. Yeah, exactly. mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (15:22.708)
it'll be more comfortable and that's what this is all about and you know definitely like loose fitting tops if you're nursing yeah

Dr. Shannon (15:29.565)
I was going say, yeah, it goes in with the nursing aspect too, where if you want everything just to be comfortable. So don't try to.

Rachael Hutchins (15:35.348)
Yeah, and now like postpartum underwear that come up real high for support because there's there you can do belly binding as a way to sort of help hold the organs and your tummy in place as everything's settling back down. It's not about cinching your waist. It's about getting support after your abdomen has expanded. Everything's displaced. Baby's no longer there.

Dr. Shannon (15:39.601)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (15:52.347)
Mm-mm. Support.

Rachael Hutchins (16:00.184)
So binding can help support your abdomen and help you feel more like secure.

Dr. Shannon (16:05.251)
Is that something that someone does for you or that you can do yourself? Okay.

Rachael Hutchins (16:08.812)
So both. you can buy a belly binder. So there's three ways that I know of. There's probably more, but you can buy a belly binder, which is like, can be like a Velcro or like a tie where you just, lay down, you put it around your abdomen and you make it as secure as you want. or there's people who do like almost like ritualistic type of, or ceremonial type of, belly binding. So someone will come and do it for you. That's amazing.

Dr. Shannon (16:17.913)
Mm-hmm. I've seen those, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (16:27.717)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (16:33.255)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (16:38.44)
And now there's also underwear that come up very high that are very supportive of the abdomen in that same kind of way as the belly binder, but it's a little bit easier. And I think people tend to think they're more comfortable. And it's just about supporting that area while the uterus is settling back down into the pelvis, which takes a couple of weeks.

Dr. Shannon (16:43.645)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (16:58.0)
Yeah, I was gonna say I remember, yeah, being like, I still feel very large and just wanting that support for that area.

Rachael Hutchins (17:04.173)
Yeah.

Yep. Yeah. Yep. And it's not about being smaller. It's just about getting support while you're healing. and I think that's also better for your pelvic floor in general, pelvic floor health. think that's my understanding is it's, it's beneficial there too.

Dr. Shannon (17:25.337)
Yeah, I think so too. You know, caring for your, if you did have a cesarean birth and caring for your scar is something really important too. And a lot of moms I work with, there's just a lot of different things that go on with the scars. There can be just a lot of different things. There can still be pain, it's still pretty numb for a while, it can be numb for a very long time. Now, I'm not saying that any of this is good, normal. Like it's kind of...

Rachael Hutchins (17:32.961)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (17:40.622)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (17:50.618)
You got to keep in touch with your care provider as well too for changes because I've had it Yeah, exactly. Like is it hot is it swelling like you know those type of things. I know pelvic PT it can be really good for helping Especially I always think of this with like a lymph drainage as well too because there's so much fluid retention I'm thinking more so if you've had a hospital birth because you probably have had some IV liquids or something like that Or if you've had a cesarean

Rachael Hutchins (17:52.782)
Yeah, and pay attention to what's happening.

Rachael Hutchins (18:00.76)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (18:08.034)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (18:16.45)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (18:18.401)
I just remember being like, I just felt massive and they had those really, I really hated those like compression things on my legs and all of that just to kind of pump all the fluids. in looking at caring for that scar, there's also kind of that lymph aspect. There's oils and things that you can get to. I know some places are not gonna wanna mess with the scar if you do like massage therapy for a bit of time for healing. So, you know, keep that in mind as well too.

Rachael Hutchins (18:26.242)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (18:44.332)
Yeah, I think that was a period of time.

Dr. Shannon (18:48.082)
But I remember when I did that interview with Brandy Freeman, who's a pelvic floor PT, Connect Pelvic Health. I was like, was drawing a blank on her office name. And she had mentioned that she will have, she has her moms who had a cesarean birth lay on their belly. And so you can kind of have like your your forehead on your hands and to do some good breathing. You don't have to stay there long.

But that can help because sometimes you can get like a little bit of a pooch or a shelf that comes from that caesarean scar if you're slouching a bit, if you're sitting a lot, which you're probably resting and probably sitting a bit or laying. that's a good, that was also something she had mentioned as far as healing.

Rachael Hutchins (19:27.089)
Right and breastfeeding, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (19:33.368)
Well, that's where think pelvic floor physical therapists are really beneficial to be in touch with again prior to giving birth. And then they'll help you in the postpartum. Even if they're not doing a lot of hands-on, they're going to give you some of those tips for breathing, for if you've had a cesarean scar, for gentle movements that will help you in the long term. So just shout out to the pelvic floor physical therapist and putting that on people's radar prenatally to be in touch with them because they can

Dr. Shannon (19:39.812)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (19:43.611)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (20:02.54)
be very beneficial.

Dr. Shannon (20:03.645)
And I was gonna say the prenatal part of that is good because sometimes like I will see postpartum moms before their OB checkup if they ever midwife checkup or so. Typically the OB checkup midwives are checking in a little bit more. But you can do the same thing with pelvic floor PT. Like just kind of reach out and be like when do you want me to come in? I usually tell my moms

whenever you feel comfortable and ready, but a lot of times too, like you don't have to lay on your belly, you know, postpartum, like I'll do a lot of different adjustments with mom seated, you can do it laying down. So the same thing can be said for like public floors, like there's ways to work around it. So don't just not do something or not reach out because you're like, well, I was doing this during pregnancy and it's gonna be different here. Like make sure you talk to them and set that up beforehand so then you know what to expect and what that postpartum care looks like. So.

Rachael Hutchins (20:34.072)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (20:37.923)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (20:45.294)
for sure.

Rachael Hutchins (20:54.05)
Yep. Yeah. But I think the chiropractic care and pelvic PT, they're going to assess and give you way different things, way more options than your traditional like OB for who are just going to kind of make sure that like if had a cesarean that the scar looks good, that's like your overall good, but they're not going to go in depth on all of the stuff that there's so much more. Yeah. So that's why having those on your team. Yep.

Dr. Shannon (21:03.92)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:11.847)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:16.953)
Yeah, they're like, you're cleared. Have a great day. I'm to see the next page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some individualized. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (21:24.012)
incredibly beneficial. I did want to mention too, for the perineum, and this would be if you had vaginal or cesarean possibly, if you had hemorrhoids like prenatally, but some come up during labor, depending, you know, everyone's different and every labor is different. But if you have hemorrhoids, which is happens during pregnancy or birth or postpartum, you can use Cypress oil, put it on a cotton ball and kind of wedge it between your butt cheeks and it'll just stay there.

Dr. Shannon (21:34.424)
mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (21:53.814)
that can help kind of naturally heal your hemorrhoids. And then lavender and oil for your perineum with the ice packs as well. And then I really like the not chucks pads, the tux pads, the witch hazel soaked pads for hemorrhoids as well.

Dr. Shannon (22:01.863)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (22:08.253)
Mmm, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (22:13.699)
Okay, there you go. hazel. I like it. Okay, so that's a bit of one tender area after birth. The next tender area is going to be for lactation support. And I guess I want to start with...

Rachael Hutchins (22:15.288)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (22:31.448)
Yep.

Dr. Shannon (22:37.796)
having, again, having some of this beforehand. I know you may not know how nursing is going to go. I feel like that is one of the big, you know, I have a lot of moms that, second time moms, that worry about that, you know, having been through the first one and have all these different things and I'm worried about this. you know, being prepared in your postpartum thriving kit.

Rachael Hutchins (22:48.948)
Mm, who worry about that? Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:04.269)
Maybe having an established relationship with a lactation consultant beforehand. I really like, yes, the hospitals, if you're doing a hospital birth, most, from what I remember, no, most of the hospitals do have a lactation consultant that will come there. I think the thing I noticed the most is moms are like, everything was great in the hospital. I got home and everything went crazy. And so it's kind of like, yes, get the check in the hospital.

Rachael Hutchins (23:19.758)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:31.154)
but I think it's important to have that second assessment. I would almost go as far as I think every, every nursing dyad should have, just have someone help and look, just to make sure. There might be things that you're not seeing and yes, transferring milk could be great and babies growing and maybe you don't have crack nipples, but I don't know. It's not like it's gonna take a whole ton of time.

Rachael Hutchins (23:32.888)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (23:47.213)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (23:51.022)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:00.637)
I don't think it's like too terribly expensive just to have another set of eyes to help with helping that be the best it can be because I feel like this is one of the big areas of Concerns for moms and can lead to a lot of different emotional things for moms. So

Rachael Hutchins (24:09.72)
Yes.

Yeah, lot of stress can come from it. So again, getting on with someone prenatally, doing your research prenatally, if it's an insurance thing, if it's a location thing, if it's an in office or a virtual options, like explore everything, figure out what you can do beforehand. And lot of them will do a prenatal meeting and then you call them as soon as, you know, a baby's here and you either scheduled to go into their office or a lot of them now will come to your home.

Dr. Shannon (24:22.514)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:42.321)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (24:42.478)
which is a great option. And we think that that's most beneficial because you're in your comfort of your home and you don't have all the stress and cortisol pumping that it takes to get out of the house in those early days. So if you're able to have someone come into the home, there are many benefits to that, but there are also, there's great support going to people's office, like going, leaving and going, you know, but again, figure out what works for you, what's available to you ahead of time. Because when you're in the thick of postpartum and you're needing that support,

Dr. Shannon (24:49.01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:03.687)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:11.116)
It's much harder to kind of figure out where to start and you're tired and you're more stressed. so your bandwidth is, is just much smaller. So that's why a lot of this, that prenatal explore exploration and research will benefit you tenfold. and hopefully you end up needing that support minimally. And it's that the IBCLC or an LC isn't just for those having trouble. Like it's, it's exactly what you said.

Dr. Shannon (25:14.289)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:31.548)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:38.375)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (25:41.236)
be proactive because sometimes they can identify issues you weren't aware you were having or they give you that reassurance everything looks good and then they're there at someone you can call or text if you have problems because I promise you for most people who are giving birth in the mainstream medical model you're not going to get thorough lactation support speaking generally right there are certainly great

Dr. Shannon (25:48.615)
Yeah, everything's fine.

Dr. Shannon (25:54.833)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (26:09.329)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (26:11.042)
practices out there who offer awesome lactation support, but that's just not like if you think, I've got an OB and maybe they have an LC on staff or, or I have an OB, they do everything. Some pediatricians and, and that does exist. And sometimes like you can get a pediatrician, like we just came across a mobile pediatrician who is also an IBCLC. Like boom, it's a unicorn, right? So if you can get that, that's great. But,

Dr. Shannon (26:18.429)
Or the pediatrician. Pediatricians have it. And I lucked out with a really, really good one, but...

Rachael Hutchins (26:40.13)
You know, we think being proactive and seeing them regardless of if you think you're having issues, because they can give you reassurance to that confidence of like, because a lot of time it's doubt, it's self doubt about, am I doing it right? Are they getting enough? So it can give you that confidence of like, yes, everything looks good. And then they're available to you if you need them or it's identifying issues or troubleshooting issues that you might have early on.

Dr. Shannon (26:46.109)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. Am I doing? Yeah, exactly. And you may not you may be fine.

Dr. Shannon (27:03.932)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (27:07.764)
They I mean that's just like hands down one of the best things you can do is to get connected with an LC or an IBCLC or figure out what's available and a lot of insurances are reimbursing for lactation support. It's usually not billed like a lot of the lactation consultants we refer to don't like do the billing but they will provide the super bills and then insurances will reimburse.

Dr. Shannon (27:11.473)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (27:32.911)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (27:36.942)
But you want to do that research ahead of time to figure out what your insurance will do. But knowing that a lot of people are getting insurance coverage. And so use that even if it's just one visit, if they're like, yeah, you get one visit that will cover great. Please use it. Please use it. It's highly beneficial. So that's

Dr. Shannon (27:47.035)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (27:53.873)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (28:00.807)
You lost your ear.

Rachael Hutchins (28:00.918)
lost my, lost my earbud come back to me. But that is like hands down one of the best tips but definitely we have some other tips here for just like kind of thinking about setting yourself up. I wasn't even on our list which I knew we would talk about it. Well is it in the professional support? Okay well when we get to that we can say well like we talked about earlier because there is definitely like the professional support aspect of this.

Dr. Shannon (28:07.931)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (28:11.685)
That wasn't even on our list. you know why? Because we're going to talk about it later. Crap. Well, it is. Sorry.

Dr. Shannon (28:25.903)
Yeah, I forgot this is like the physical healing. My brain just went straight to... I know obviously we're passionate about it. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (28:29.87)
Well, I can't talk about lactation support and not talk about an IBCLC. Yeah. Okay. So things you want to have on hand.

Dr. Shannon (28:38.191)
Mm-hmm. Nursing bras. Tanks. Yes. Easy access. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Rachael Hutchins (28:41.438)
nursing bras and tanks loose easy access support but like not restrictive that's what you're aiming for breathable soft yeah no underwire no super tight so nursing bras nursing tanks breast pads because as your milk comes in especially while your breast milk is regulating you might leak so they have disposable breast pads or reusable i love the bamboo reusable

Dr. Shannon (29:00.23)
yeah.

Dr. Shannon (29:04.635)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (29:10.446)
Breast pads those were awesome Highly absorbent. They cleaned well. I found them more comfortable So those are some of the basics there for comfort nipple cream So, I mean there's all kinds of nipple creams out there organic kinds homemade kinds Target brand kinds it's out there just cream for your nipple. Even if you don't use it It's nice to have on hand in case you do need it nipple cream is used for like the initial

Dr. Shannon (29:22.663)
There's lots of different ones.

Dr. Shannon (29:31.762)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (29:40.27)
bit of breastfeeding where there's maybe more cracking and we really want to avoid that but there is a degree of normal there when your nipples are kind of getting used to breastfeeding and so nipple cream is really beneficial. So are silverette cups, the pure silver kind those are healing, they're just literally little silver cups that you put over your nipple.

Dr. Shannon (29:43.261)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (29:47.111)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (29:51.791)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (29:57.767)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (30:08.278)
gel pads again for comfort. usually make them cold and you can put them over your nipples. I really liked doing a combination of heat therapy and cold therapy. And I think it's, find that beneficial even referring it to my clients, but warm, warm compress around the breast before you feed and then cold compress either directly on the nipple or around the breast after you feed like 10 or 15 minutes, not an extended amount of time.

Dr. Shannon (30:26.449)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (30:37.134)
As your milk is coming in, that's usually when you're having the most discomfort. And so that kind of routine and the warm compress kind of helps soften everything and make it more supple, make it little bit easier for baby to latch.

Dr. Shannon (30:37.201)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:46.927)
Yeah, I did a bit of like just like self massage with with nursing. I think I didn't really use much hot and cold. I liked the disposable nipple pads too because I felt like they molded better in my bra when I was like back at work. but just know that there's options which is nice because I tried a bunch, you know, just trying to figure that out. But I did and I used like a nipple cream.

Rachael Hutchins (30:52.354)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (31:02.68)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (31:14.045)
And I think I had a really probably intense letdown. And so I think he kind of sometimes like made that worse because it was just like, my gosh, too much. So you're just kind of playing around with those things, but giving yourself the support or understanding what you might need and what you might not need. So.

Rachael Hutchins (31:21.302)
Okay, there you go. Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (31:32.192)
need yeah yeah i mean those are the things like if i'm going to a baby shower literally that's what i gift the mom is usually some variety of nipple cream breast pads variety and you know because i'm like you will need this in one way or another and then the with pumping that's like a whole whole thing right you do not need to pump if baby is feeding

Dr. Shannon (31:37.542)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (31:41.617)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (31:48.913)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (31:56.922)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (32:02.186)
efficiently and regularly. You only need to pump if there's like a gap in feedings, whether due to illness like sickness, a baby or you or separation at the hospital for one reason or another, or like truly inability to latch. If there's a gap, if you go more than like two hours, two to three hours without the feeding, then you pump or hand express.

Dr. Shannon (32:08.657)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:27.896)
There's some misconception out there that pumping is like an essential part of like starting breastfeeding. And it's really not like you do not need to be feeding and pumping in those early days. You're only pumping to stimulate the breast to ensure your milk will come in and that the body gets the signal to produce milk. If there's a gap in time of baby feeding. Otherwise you bring pumping in later, right?

Dr. Shannon (32:34.001)
Hmm. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (32:39.548)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (32:46.598)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:50.439)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:54.52)
We're not like trying to pump up and build a supply at this stage that will create an oversupply because it's a supply and demand, right? So the breast is stimulated, milk is released. The body is like, okay, we need to do this again. So if you are feeding like baby on the breast and you're pumping, the body is like, all right, we got to make double time. And while that might sound like a good idea, like, well, the more the merrier, it can be very uncomfortable and create engorgement.

Dr. Shannon (32:54.832)
Mm-hmm.

at like the first stages now.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:09.564)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:21.543)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (33:24.268)
We save that for a little bit later. But pumping hand pump or hand expression. I like the hand pump or hand expression in the early days. If you're just trying to get like colostrum out, that's that first milk that comes out to give baby in a spoon or a syringe. They eat just like the tiniest amount in those early days. So hand, hand, you do not, a lot of it gets like kind of eaten up in the big pumps. You lose a lot of what you're making.

Dr. Shannon (33:33.169)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (33:37.275)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (33:45.029)
Yeah, you don't need a big old pump then. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (33:50.087)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (33:52.14)
And then you transition to your mature milk in three to five days. And at that point, if you need to pump an electric pump would be easier. and then your flange size. So that's the other thing that a lactation consultant can help you with is we are actually, there's new evidence that most people are not using the correct size flange. And they're actually the flange size needed overall is much smaller than people think. And then what.

Dr. Shannon (33:55.644)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:04.061)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:18.151)
Hmm... okay.

Rachael Hutchins (34:21.502)
is provided when you get a pump. You get like two or three flanges and there's like 20 sizes or more. It's and so that's another thing a lactation consultant can help you with is is measuring and you really can't measure until after you've given birth because you're it actually gets bigger the areola and the nipple and everything get bigger so the baby can see it so you can't really size for that prenatally but knowing

Dr. Shannon (34:25.617)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:30.11)
goodness. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (34:39.503)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:48.64)
flange size is important if you are needing to pump and making sure you're sized properly is very important.

Dr. Shannon (34:56.369)
Yeah.

And having, if you do, I guess it's a little bit later, but having some freezer bags if you do want to freeze breast milk and all of that. So, but again, too, once you get kind of established, it's not a make or break if you're not like pumping all this extra milk right at the beginning. you know, try to, because nursing can be so stressful. So don't stress yourself out with that.

Rachael Hutchins (35:16.11)
Correct, yeah. But if.

Rachael Hutchins (35:22.11)
having the bags on hand can be a stress reliever.

Dr. Shannon (35:23.981)
Mm-hmm. Like if you know you're gonna be going back to work, you know, you're gonna be pumping then yeah. Yeah have that on hand. So, Variety of bottles too, if you know, I mean you might go through lots of different ones Trying to find ones that work if I do like to say if you are gonna breastfeed At like a do a like a do combo like if you're gonna pump in breastfeed like if your first time working or out of the house or something like that I do try to recommend to like stick to that slowest flow nipple

As possible just to mimic the breastfeeding aspect where they really have to work To get the milk out instead of just kind of like pouring out of The nipple but again to lactation consultants really really help with that

Rachael Hutchins (36:09.068)
And a tip for bottles, because again, like marketing and like if you go to the store and walk down that aisle, there's like so many and they all promise to reduce gas and reflux and mimic the brass and all these things. I really try to encourage you not to get caught up in the marketing and needing eight different bottles of, of different brands by one.

Dr. Shannon (36:14.742)
yeah.

Dr. Shannon (36:20.669)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (36:27.439)
Mm-mm.

Dr. Shannon (36:35.835)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (36:39.534)
a handful of Bottles if you know you want to be trying it, you know at some point And then see what works and when you know, it works for your baby then go buy more of that bottle because there's so much people over by and Then it doesn't work and then they're running out and buying a bunch, you know of other so That's my tip is by one of like a handful at most

Dr. Shannon (36:51.249)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because there's lots of options. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (37:08.305)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (37:08.798)
if you feel like you want to try some different ones and then go buy more of it when you know it works. Sticking with the slow flow even as they get bigger and slow paced bottle feeding like you said to mimic breastfeeding especially if you are trying to maintain a breastfeeding relationship but even if you're not slow paced bottle feeding

Dr. Shannon (37:16.359)
Mm hmm. Yep.

Dr. Shannon (37:23.047)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (37:31.708)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (37:37.492)
is still physiologically better for them. You're making it's helping them not overeat. It's not helping. It's helping them not eat too fast. and I guess it's just pace bottle feeding. It's not slow pace. It's just paste. It's just paste. Following the baby's lead. You kind of keep the bottle horizontal versus vertical. and there's, there's a lot you can learn on that. So taking like a breastfeeding course, working with a lactation consultant.

Dr. Shannon (37:47.004)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (37:52.059)
Just paste. Yeah, yeah, Not rushed. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:05.433)
That was going to be, and I made a note too to mention, I think another important aspect with lactation support is taking a breastfeeding class or lactation support class like prenatally as well. If it's included in like a childbirth education, that's great, but taking one that it goes in depth, that was so, I think so impactful for the success of my

Rachael Hutchins (38:18.316)
Yeah, absolutely.

Rachael Hutchins (38:26.168)
Goes in depth. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (38:34.693)
nursing journey and so I credit that class a lot with that. I just felt I'm more confident once baby was born that I was like okay I know a few things and you know didn't know a lot but it was enough to where I didn't feel completely clueless and so I could go to that so I do recommend that. Yeah yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (38:52.054)
Absolutely. And usually they're like three or four hours. Like it's, it's a hefty class. I did one too and I agree completely with what you're saying is it just really helps.

Dr. Shannon (39:01.885)
can't remember if my husband came to that as well. Cause that's also good to have, you know, like partner support too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (39:07.582)
Absolutely, because they need to understand what's happening, how to help you, what to expect. Absolutely get them involved. Yeah. I had another thought. I was going to say, cause you said what helped you. Cause I did not work with an, an IBCLC, but I did take an in-depth breastfeeding specific course. It was like three hours. And then I lived and died by the womanly art of breastfeeding. It was a book.

Dr. Shannon (39:35.951)
Hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (39:36.68)
lived on my side table and I referenced it endlessly and that's what got me through but I still recommend working with an IBCLC. So yeah, yeah. breastfeeding pillow that was the other thing as like that's helpful and I think the my breast friend pillow is the best but there's lots out there.

Dr. Shannon (39:41.981)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (39:48.018)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (39:54.163)
huh. That's our other, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (40:00.539)
Yeah, I would mom she was like, yeah, I have that pillow. It's like the shelf. I'm like, it should just be called the shelf because the breast friend is like real, real sturdy. I liked the boppy, but I would use a lot of pillows and then like under the boppy just to check, protect my like nursing posture or whatever. But that breast friend, like the one I had, like because I had two of them, I had like a clip and everything. I felt like I felt like Tim. Well, it's good.

Rachael Hutchins (40:07.821)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (40:19.886)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (40:27.087)
age me but Tim the tool man like I had like my tool belt and I had like pockets on it and I had like I could just go around with that thing so yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (40:30.07)
Yeah. No, it's amazing. I use the boppy and I don't know if the breast friend pillow, I don't know. I didn't have it. It wasn't anything in my realm at the time, but now it is in my realm. And I'm like, the boppy is cute and soft, but it doesn't, it's not as near as effective or supportive or sturdy or functional. Like it has a pocket that can hold your phone or your Kindle or something or snacks.

Dr. Shannon (40:40.861)
okay. huh.

Dr. Shannon (40:47.97)
It's not as sturdy.

Dr. Shannon (40:57.923)
Yeah, like that's the thing, pockets. So that, yeah, so that leads us into another realm of physical healing for postpartum, but it's gonna be like the comfort and rest aspect of things. So those things that can support you, like this pillow, are having things readily around you and available if you've got different floors in the house, like having two things set up. I know that that was...

Rachael Hutchins (40:59.744)
It's like for serious.

Dr. Shannon (41:23.953)
that was good for us, especially with not being able to like, you know, or not wanting to do stairs so much or whatever, or just asking someone, I'm staying downstairs, someone bring me all these things, you know, like give me that or, you know, all the different, having like changing tables in two different areas and stuff, or just having the stuff around the house, it is helpful in that aspect.

Rachael Hutchins (41:25.228)
a cart.

Rachael Hutchins (41:34.146)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (41:44.694)
I like the idea of having a cart set up on, if you have multi floors, like having a cart set up on both floors and that cart includes like snacks and waters and essentials that you need or baby needs that you can kind of either move the cart around room to room or, know, ideally in the early weeks of postpartum, you're avoiding frequent stairs or stairs at all. So we're like, pick a level of your house and stay on it.

Dr. Shannon (41:58.587)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (42:10.684)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (42:13.976)
And that's why having the cart on each floor stocked, you know, you have everything you need to like bottled water or again, easy to eat snacks because breastfeeding goes hand in hand with feeling hungry that serves a role. It's a physiological like reaction. because your body needs more calories to produce more milk. So people tend to get really thirsty or hungry while they're feeding. having snacks handy in the cart.

Dr. Shannon (42:29.371)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (42:43.822)
And then if you do it right, that cart, if it's like one of those like three levels, I like to put make one of the levels like diapers and wipes and booty cream. So that, like you said, changing tables, but I mean, you can change them on the floor or on the couch or on the bed or wherever you are, having all the things you need in one place and then having them in the main areas of your house. And then that's a great support person duty of like.

Dr. Shannon (42:53.341)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (42:58.095)
Yeah, just having the items that you would need.

Dr. Shannon (43:07.314)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (43:11.495)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (43:12.248)
Can you make sure these carts are stocked? You know, someone would love to help you with that. Like if someone's coming to visit and they ask, how can I help? Can you make sure these carts are stocked? That's so helpful. Or for your partner, for them to do that.

Dr. Shannon (43:26.557)
Exactly. I think we talked about, yeah, well, just I guess the expectations of what your day is gonna look like. Allowing yourself rest and not trying to push it so much. think the biggest thing I see, and a lot of times I'll do these postpartum re-exams in the office and I've got scanning equipment that gives me a chance to kind of.

Rachael Hutchins (43:27.298)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (43:52.943)
assess how the nervous system's functioning, which gives a little bit of insight into are we in fight or flight? Are we healing? Are we resting enough? And so a lot of times I can see from when I do those scans with moms, they'll be like, okay, we do need to rest more. There's a lot of things coming up and I know it's harder nowadays to rest. So it's being intentional with your rest and not trying to push it too much and knowing what your day is. Your day is gonna look different.

and how productive you're gonna be and what you're going to get done because it's going to be you hung out with your baby. So that's okay. You gotta be okay with that,

Rachael Hutchins (44:29.676)
And that rest is productivity, like rest, especially, and this is so, so real. And this is why we have to talk about it over and over again, because we live in a pretty high demand, like high achieving society where if we're not doing something or producing something, we lazy. And that's just not the truth. that is a rewiring that has to happen. And that's why starting prenatally is so important so that once you get to that postpartum, you're ready as much as possible to embrace.

Dr. Shannon (44:41.638)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (44:59.276)
going slower, quote unquote doing less, even though you're doing so much. It just doesn't feel, it's not as tangible, right? It's not easily marked or checked off as far as all the things you're doing during the day and night in that early postpartum period. But you are caring for a human who needs you 24 seven, essentially. Like they need a lot, even though they don't do a lot, like they sleep for like

Dr. Shannon (45:00.783)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:22.577)
Yeah, yeah, they're really needy. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (45:29.486)
17 hours a day as a newborn. So like there is a lot of sleeping but typically they in those early days they really like contact sleeping because you are their their safe place. Like you they are still highly dependent on you and that's why I like the the phrasing of the fourth trimester because we can see it as an extension yes of pregnancy and how many of their needs need to continue to mimic the womb.

Dr. Shannon (45:38.407)
Hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:46.321)
Mm-hmm.

As a continuation. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (45:58.838)
And how if we can truly understand that and embrace it, it makes that postpartum feel less resistant because we're not so like beating ourselves up that we're not back to ourselves, that our schedule is appended, that we're we have our body is out of sorts and our sleep is out of sorts and your baby's not doing what you thought they would do because you maybe didn't understand what was. yeah. And then that wins. And so like Hannah talks about this a lot.

Dr. Shannon (46:09.745)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (46:19.917)
Mm-hmm. It's so easy to let all of that. gosh. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (46:27.474)
her because she has a postpartum planning class and then a newborn care class and in both of those I think it comes up as far as like what is normal newborn behavior and what do they need especially in those early weeks and when you can understand truly because I think a lot of times because we don't we're not as intimately involved in other people's lives when they just give birth we're we're kind of separated in that way we've lost what is normal and

Dr. Shannon (46:36.283)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (46:54.375)
what is normal.

Rachael Hutchins (46:56.494)
they need their parents, babies need their parents a lot and they like being close to their parents and sleep, babies don't sleep on their own for a while. Even if you have the friend that has the story of their baby sleeping through the night at four weeks, like sure, okay, that's a rarity. Most babies don't find, yeah, it happened once and

Dr. Shannon (46:58.589)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:08.285)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:14.161)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:18.001)
Mm-hmm. And is that maintained? Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (47:23.872)
And actually knowing that newborns really aren't shouldn't sleep through the night. That means they are in too deep of a sleep for too long. They need to be eating. It's actually safer for babies to wake regularly. And I only know that it can help us maybe feel less stressed. And then I like the 24 hour clock mentality for the first like six weeks because a lot of babies have their

Dr. Shannon (47:28.914)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:33.51)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm

Dr. Shannon (47:41.457)
Mm-hmm. It's this as expectations. Yep. I know

Dr. Shannon (47:48.411)
Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins (47:53.166)
days and nights mixed up because they don't know up from down day or night. They don't even know they have hands. Like the fact that they're going to be like it's 9 p.m. night is like and but we are we are we have had a lifetime of training of going to bed when the sun goes down. They will get there but in those early days they have a 24 hour clock right and that's why it's so important to

Dr. Shannon (47:57.796)
Mm-hmm. It's true.

I'm so tired now. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (48:23.554)
that whole sleep when baby sleeps. I don't love it because it puts some pressure on, but it is sort of like if you can just say, I'm to do this at least for the first two weeks, three weeks, I'm going to truly embrace this like bubble. I'm going to go by my baby's clock. I'm going to, you know, sleep when they sleep, rest when they rest. Cause I think it's so hard when we say just rest, you just need to rest more. That to me doesn't work.

Dr. Shannon (48:27.291)
Mm-hmm

Dr. Shannon (48:33.372)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (48:41.095)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (48:48.01)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (48:52.27)
We have to say, well, how and when you've got to be specific and you've got to like understand like what's happening with your body, what's happening with baby's body and what's normal and then bring your support system in to help. like a lot of babies are up at night. Okay. So who can you bring in during the day to once baby is fed, changed, whatever you can go lay down and the baby is cared for, right? Someone you of course that you trust.

Dr. Shannon (48:54.405)
Yeah, you gotta be specific.

Dr. Shannon (49:05.159)
Mm hmm.

Dr. Shannon (49:19.367)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (49:22.506)
But being able to say, that'll be the best sleep you get when you know your baby's looked after and the baby's fed, you can go rest. But doing some education there too about the normal newborn behavior and try to really adapt that 24 hour clock and that it's temporary. It is temporary. It will end and the more you can embrace it, the less resistant it feels and hopefully the better you feel. And that's the goal is to help you thrive through this.

Dr. Shannon (49:28.775)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (49:36.957)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (49:49.969)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (49:52.27)
not suffer but it is a heart adjustment because your body wants to go to bed at night. can't I mean I remember that tired that I felt and it is unlike anything else and like the nighttime wakings affected me differently than the daytime. Like having the baby struggle with sleep during the day I could manage better. Having the baby struggle with sleep at night felt like it was the end.

Dr. Shannon (49:55.709)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (49:59.132)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (50:02.784)
yeah, that is something. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (50:11.217)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm. That was, Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:20.738)
Like I was like over and over again, I'm like, I can't do this anymore. This is the hardest. This is the worst thing I've ever had to do. But then the day would come and you'd see your cute little baby and you're like, okay, I can keep going. I'll keep doing it. But you know, they're there. It's hard. I want to be honest. It's hard.

Dr. Shannon (50:25.031)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (50:32.655)
huh.

Dr. Shannon (50:37.381)
Yeah, the nighttime wakeups were hard. Yeah, But again too, like yeah, it's it is temporary. I know. Doesn't make it any easier though.

Rachael Hutchins (50:45.282)
Yeah. And you got to prepare. And, and I think communicating with your partner, have a loved one, husband, partner in the home, talking about it with them prenatally about what this is going to look like. What, what do you, what's your role going to be? What's my role going to be? How are we sharing this so that we can both get rest and take care of ourselves? a lot of the burden does tend to fall on mom because she's

Dr. Shannon (50:50.737)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:01.308)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (51:14.446)
If you're breastfeeding or even if you're pumping and getting a bottle, like a lot of that burden falls on mom. And so a lot of dads kind of feel like, I don't know how to help here, but there's lots of ways you can still help. Like mom can feed and then you change the diaper and sue them back to sleep or, taking shifts. Shifts are great. doing, you know, exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (51:15.877)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:30.971)
Mm-hmm.

The shifts, yeah.

Restocking the stuff. I remember asking like okay get me the water like get me the things that I need so that I can just sit here and Nurse and not do anything else. Yep

Rachael Hutchins (51:43.662)
Yes, and not worry about anything. Yeah. So you got to have a, I mean, obviously a supportive partner, but you have to be willing to communicate with your partner and say, this is what's going to be most helpful and talk, trying to talk about it pre-navally. And that's where, and I'll highlight it again, cause that's so great, but Hannah's postpartum planning class literally teaches you about these things and then gives you a workbook to be like, okay, what do we need to think about and create some list of like responsibilities and

Dr. Shannon (51:50.62)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:55.281)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:59.303)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:08.189)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (52:09.503)
expectations and people who you are willing to bring in at different times and stuff like that. it's for to truly achieve rest. That's the kind of preparation we're talking about here that will help you get there. It's not it's not swaddles. It's not sleep sacks. It's not sleep devices. It's not it's not the things and there's such an

Dr. Shannon (52:28.561)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (52:34.479)
It's not in the things. Uh-huh. I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (52:36.898)
There are things out there that could be helpful, but everything I just said is more what I would focus on than the things. Cause it feels like there's always a thing that might fix your, your, your issue, or you might perceive it as a fix to the issue, but it's not. And it might work for a second. You know, I'm not saying don't use sleep sacks or swaddles or whatever, but like, that's just not the end. I'll be all, I can't tell you how many moms are like, I in the middle.

Dr. Shannon (52:42.845)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:47.986)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (52:57.137)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (53:02.982)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (53:05.486)
2 a.m. I purchased XYZ sleep contraptions or devices because you're desperate and I get it I've been there and I'm not saying you won't that that's the wrong thing to do but just if we put all of our weight in the external things I think that brings more stress.

Dr. Shannon (53:09.191)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:12.603)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (53:21.02)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (53:25.949)
think so too, I know. It's that, those keys of asking for the support. So in line with that, we get a little bit of that mental and emotional healing that we need to look at in our thriving kit. So it's also a little bit of, that's the physical. So now there's the mental load, which can be very easily tied to the physical, because when you're tired,

Rachael Hutchins (53:52.302)
Sure, yeah, it's all connected.

Dr. Shannon (53:53.406)
your stress, you're like already here. So you got as a little fuse, as a small, small fuse. And so I think that's, you know, that's totally, to me, that's normal. Like that's just, and you're in that, you know, new baby, just funk where you're just, don't know that fog, you know, type of thing. So I think journaling and postpartum.

Rachael Hutchins (53:57.09)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (54:15.022)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (54:21.565)
planning. I just, like that getting the thoughts out and expressing them, whether that's, I don't know, voice journaling, whether that's writing things down. I'm not going to say movement now or like walking and that type of thing. Like I want movement, but right now it's, we're in those early postpartum healing stages. So it's, it's a mental and emotional tool to use there. So even affirmation things just,

Rachael Hutchins (54:24.962)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (54:52.143)
Anything you need that you usually like to do that can bring a little bit of that gratitude or bring a little bit of that joy, even if it is like having your friend come over, you know, and chatting and giving you time and they hold the baby. Yeah, yeah, they're just there if you want to like decompress like now, that's what I mean, like be very intentional. But if you've got those like one, two, two close people in your life.

Rachael Hutchins (55:04.554)
A friend that doesn't have expectations.

Dr. Shannon (55:16.241)
that really small circle and you want to bring someone in to help process things. It's huge. Yeah. So right. Know that that's how you may be wanting to crave inward. So maybe writing it out or something. But I think the processing of of that time period is really important. I don't remember. It's also hard to too because there's you may have your normal routine.

Rachael Hutchins (55:19.342)
Like if you're a verbal processor, or if you're more social.

Dr. Shannon (55:45.181)
and then baby comes and we just talked about like that whole routine is disrupted. So also knowing like it's not like if you usually do your journaling in the morning that may not happen. So yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (55:46.86)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (55:53.482)
Yeah, new expectations around you want to have you want to know the things that help you normally and then figuring out a way to weave them in to the postpartum because it's not going to look the same. And if we have that expectation that you're going to maintain the things you've been doing and then you no longer can that brings disappointment. So you got to fill that tool bag of like what helps me now with my emotional mental health and try to find healthy ways.

Dr. Shannon (55:59.773)
Uh-huh. Be graceful to weave them in. Yeah. That's, yep. That's what I want.

Dr. Shannon (56:14.545)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (56:20.231)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (56:23.316)
and reasonable ways to weave them into the postpartum. And I love writing stuff out or voice memo-ing. Voice memo-ing is great because you might find that you have less time to sit down and write because you're constantly holding or nursing a baby or sleeping yourself.

Dr. Shannon (56:26.877)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (56:32.733)
I like voice memo-ing.

Yeah, yeah, I've done that a lot lately and I really really like it just gets it out of my brain and then I feel like I can just let it go and then

Rachael Hutchins (56:46.83)
Yes. So like, and I say journal without expectation, like I like a brain dump. Whatever is swirling in your brain, get it out, like speak it out, write it out, whatever. And so whether it be a voice memo or with a trusted friend or therapist, like being able to get, cause you have so many swirly thoughts, sometimes anxious thoughts, sometimes intrusive thoughts, sometimes like

Dr. Shannon (56:58.813)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:02.588)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:06.225)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:11.239)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (57:15.156)
you don't know where they came from thoughts and if we don't address them I think that increases the anxiety and then that makes it harder to rest because you're spinning right and I think there is so there's a range of normal with that anxious mind that comes in the early post-partum and it's most intense in those first two weeks and so especially if you struggled with it prenatally you're

Dr. Shannon (57:22.255)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's all connected. Yep.

Dr. Shannon (57:32.444)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:36.924)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (57:40.398)
probably going to experience it postpartum. And then if you didn't before, you still have a chance of having some degree of it postpartum. and that's not even like a mental health issue. Like it's not like a postpartum depression, but there are ranges of anxiety and OCD and intrusive thoughts and all of that, because you've just gone through such a life changing event and you have the extreme hormone imbalances and, they're most extreme in those first two weeks, like crying for no reason or being angry for no reason or whatever.

Dr. Shannon (57:52.347)
Mm-mm.

Dr. Shannon (58:09.093)
overwhelmed. Yeah, for a reason.

Rachael Hutchins (58:10.614)
Yeah. And so a place to start is the journaling, but then the next level, think, cause I don't want to just say journaling is the way because it's not, but verbally processing with a trusted, like a mental health counselor, like having them on deck is invaluable, to help you through that and help you know what's normal. Cause if we just sit in those thoughts and we're like, no one else told me that this was going to happen. You, you might.

Dr. Shannon (58:19.089)
Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I like the voice. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (58:28.988)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (58:37.794)
feel more stressed by it or more down on yourself because you didn't know what was normal. So, and I like to talk about this too with the partner ahead of time so they know how to support you for that mental health component postpartum.

Dr. Shannon (58:43.794)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (58:53.168)
I think that birth and the birth space can bring out a lot that you may not be aware of. And I just mean like, I don't know, I just feel like I had a lot of fear in my first birth and I think it's tied to a lot from childhood and growing up. So I'm not saying everybody's gonna have that connection there, but being aware

that that vulnerable space can bring up things and it can go into postpartum. I just sometimes think that connection needs to be made. It's not like that for everybody, but maybe that gives you little bit of grace with yourself too in that, yeah, this was a big life event. Those ways to process it.

Rachael Hutchins (59:23.601)
yeah.

Dr. Shannon (59:48.527)
our community supports the next kind of segment that we'll go into. so the therapist is in there as well too. But like books and podcasts, know, right? Like books and podcasts are good too. Things that aren't going to bring stress, be mindful. I just asked us to be mindful of like what you're allowing in your space as well too. So, cause if a book is making you feel like crap.

Rachael Hutchins (59:53.334)
leaning on your people. It's hard not to leave them in here.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:14.368)
Hannah and I were just talking about this and like getting like having some things queued up like even TV shows that we that you could binge that are white and like not heavy, not anxiety inducing like friends, right? Like you can binge watch friends and stay in a pretty good space. New girl, happy place or the good place. That was the other one I just shared like

Dr. Shannon (01:00:18.727)
Don't.

huh.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:31.421)
Fluffy. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Can jump in at any episode. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:44.364)
whatever your thing is, but let's not go into like even Grey's Anatomy. Yo.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:48.857)
Maybe you don't need a self-help. Yeah, or like you may not need something so like intensive.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:54.006)
Yeah, let's just have it be easy to watch, kind of mindless and uplifting even. And so adding into the books and podcasts or like TV shows like that, you can just have on that you can like focus on. I really discourage scrolling social media. We spend a lot of time sitting with in the postpartum because we're nursing or we're resting. You're in the house more.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:58.834)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:11.911)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:20.438)
It's like second nature for people to just pick up their phone and scroll and you have got to set some intentional boundaries around this or you'll just find yourself in a doom scroll or down the rabbit hole of Google advice or Facebook forum advice. That is not where I want you going full stop. So that's why having books, podcasts, TV shows to take your attention. So you're not feeling like you have to scroll.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:23.495)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:35.025)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:47.815)
Well, you've got those things to go to, so it's not like, I don't know what to do. I'm just going to grab my phone. No. Stop. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:49.912)
You have to.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:55.628)
Yeah. Even put like a sticky note on your phone or something. You have to have roadblocks or it just happens. Cause even me, if I have some downtime, I'll like pick up my phone and kind of scroll and I have to pay attention and I start noticing like the physiological response. And that's what I would encourage you. Like, okay, go on social. But then if you're noticing that, that a stress response, like you've got to put it down or have.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:00.829)
That's a good roadblock. Yeah. Yeah. yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:12.123)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:21.873)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:02:22.87)
have some roadblocks in place where you have like the timers on your phone that remind you after, I don't know, whatever it is, like make it harder to get to. I just think social media when we're kind of a little bit stuck in like relax, rest mode doesn't serve unless you're like scrolling funny dog and cat reels. That's it.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:27.174)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:39.559)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:46.075)
Yeah, because sometimes the internet's a funny place. I say that and I'm like, okay, it's been funny. I feel uplifted. But that's not always.

Rachael Hutchins (01:02:52.47)
I can spend like five or 10 minutes crying laughing in bed with my husband at dog funny dog or cat reels. I don't know why I love it. I'm like, please give me more of that.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:56.796)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:03:01.489)
Yeah, yeah. The kids hear me and they're like, mom's looking at reels again, because I am dying laughing. I'm like, you gotta see this. Yes, yes. Stay there. It doesn't last.

Rachael Hutchins (01:03:10.87)
Right? So if you can get that, but stay there. But I think a lot of time in postpartum, especially cause you're, end up asking the internet questions about what you're experiencing or whatever. And you get, who knows what you're getting back. And I just say, don't go to doc. Don't go to Google doc. Don't ask Facebook. Do not ask random strangers on Facebook about

Dr. Shannon (01:03:20.346)
huh. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:03:28.249)
I know. Darn you, algorithm.

No.

Rachael Hutchins (01:03:38.946)
Breastfeeding issues sleep issues Use your people and we're get into people next But I went on a tangent there, I'm so sorry, but we were

Dr. Shannon (01:03:43.611)
Hmm. We're gonna get into people. Yes.

No, you're good. Meditation, focusing inward, connecting with your breath is another important tool to really engage vagus nerve, to engage parasympathetic nervous system, to engage to help you rest because your body can't really rest if it thinks it's running from a bear. Birth may have made you feel like you're running from a bear. Having a newborn can make you feel like you're running from a bear. All of those things. Yeah. It makes sense.

if you've got that stress. So just know that breathing, I really like a count of breathing in for four, out for six. That's a way to engage, if you're sympathetic, that's my favorite way to do it. In fact, do you know one thing I've noticed in the past few years is that, I think I've mentioned this before too, that I will just start sighing, like throughout my day. it's like my body is literally like trying to say,

Rachael Hutchins (01:04:28.056)
Same.

Dr. Shannon (01:04:50.334)
Calm down, like we're gonna make you sigh. And I'll be like, what, why am I sighing right now? I'm like, okay, I think I've been holding my breath a bit. I've been holding it up here in my shoulders. Okay, so can I sigh? So sometimes your mind will force you to, but that sighing, that breathing in and exhaling for longer than the inhale. So whatever count you wanna do, it doesn't matter, but that inhale, the exhale has to be longer than the inhale for the parasympathetic breathing. There are tons of other breathing things, but.

Rachael Hutchins (01:04:51.502)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:04:59.16)
Mm-mm.

Dr. Shannon (01:05:19.001)
I think that's an easy one to go to. It's just an easy one to go to. And I think that that one, I respond really, really well to that one. So that's another.

Rachael Hutchins (01:05:27.884)
And I think combining the breath with some kind of visualization, because meditation might be hard to achieve now, but visualization, and it's not unachievable, but some people feel intimidated by that word. I know I have at different points in my life, but I know it's incredibly beneficial, even if I only do it for five minutes, being open to practicing that, but the visualization. like if it's before bed or you're trying to go and rest, I think putting in some headphones.

Dr. Shannon (01:05:37.85)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:05:42.554)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:05:55.262)
and doing a guided visualization that you then connect with your breath. If you can create that type of routine to help you come out of fight or flight, relax, it'll help you actually be able to achieve some restorative rest. And so that I think is one of the most helpful things you can do because it's like people will be like, I can't not think I can't sleep. I can't relax. And I believe you. I believe you.

Dr. Shannon (01:06:10.919)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:06:23.153)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:06:25.034)
Also, let's try this and like give it, give it, give it a chance and give it, you know, a solid amount of time. And because I, and I think how I talk about like that breath work and the resetting that parasympathetic nervous system for me personally, when I start that process, first of all, when I'm in a state of stress and I know I need to do my breath work, that's when it's the hardest to do. Right. My body is like,

Dr. Shannon (01:06:28.785)
Give it a chance.

And give it an effort. Yeah, I know.

Dr. Shannon (01:06:51.791)
yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:06:54.702)
It's like if I'm overly hungry, I'm not hungry. Like it's, there's some sort of resistance that comes up that makes it harder to do, right? If I'm happy and relaxed, easy, I can achieve it. But when I'm in a state of stress, getting into the point of like letting myself do it or convincing myself to do it is hard. So I want you to know that, that when you go to do it, it will feel more resistant cause you're in a state of stress. And even the first couple of breaths might feel tight.

Dr. Shannon (01:07:00.478)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:07:13.287)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:07:21.595)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:07:23.926)
or like it's not working but by breath five six seven you start to feel it. I hope you do.

Dr. Shannon (01:07:31.069)
Mm-hmm. Well, and also what about the correlation or the parallel in that it's important to practice the birth positions prenatally so that when you get to birth, you're not like, I'm going to try to kneel and use this peanut ball and I've never used it before. It's the same thing with the breath work and like maybe doing that when you are in a state of calm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:07:41.89)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:07:50.744)
For the very first time, you gotta practice. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (01:07:58.245)
and your body will become resilient and you will be able to respond quicker and faster when in a state of stress if your body knows how to do that.

Rachael Hutchins (01:08:01.656)
Yes. Yeah.

It'll be more accessible. Yes, exactly. It can't just be something that you're like, I'll do it when I, when it's actually like game time. It's a great parallel that you drew right there. and we teach breath work prenatally for labor. And we're like, you can't just do it in labor. You've got to be practicing it prenatally. And we talk about how it will serve them postpartum if you can practice. And we say, start with practicing in a relaxed state and then graduate towards,

Dr. Shannon (01:08:11.313)
minutes. Yeah, I know.

Dr. Shannon (01:08:15.612)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. You've got to practice it.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:08:30.395)
Yep. Then move to using it in a stressful. Yep.

Rachael Hutchins (01:08:34.246)
using it in moments of stress and then using it as a tool from there forward. And so just I just speak from like even someone who knows it's a great tool, even someone who's practiced it, I still like find it hard sometimes. So we have to be honest and say, yeah, I'm like, no, I'm not gonna breathe. It's not gonna help me. But then of course, I know better.

Dr. Shannon (01:08:48.162)
yeah, totally. Usually when dealing with my children.

Dr. Shannon (01:08:55.998)
I know. Count to 10 and I'm gonna have a different response after 10 seconds. Yeah, no, I know. I know that resistance there.

Rachael Hutchins (01:09:04.396)
Yeah, so combining the visualization. love listening to guided visual visualizations like right in my ears so I don't hear anything else going on.

Dr. Shannon (01:09:12.189)
Mm-hmm. was one night recently I got home from work and I laid on my acupressure mat I put my headphones in and I was listening to some uplifting podcast on my phone while also doing my red light therapy And I think Brendan tried to come in and tell me something and I didn't hear him at all because he was gonna go take Ethan to basketball, but obviously mom mom is

down, mama's down for the count. I am doing everything all at once. Calm, I need calm. So I thought that was fun. I felt great afterwards though, so I'll tell you that.

Rachael Hutchins (01:09:49.26)
Hey.

Rachael Hutchins (01:09:52.674)
Good for you. Hey, if they know the signal, they're like, let mom do her thing. That's winning. It's when it's when you're trying to do something and you know, you're getting there. They won't leave you alone. And let me tell you too, for newborns, if you use this breath, right? Like, cause your newborns will have moments of dysregulation, right? They cry a lot. That's their only way of communication. And so like,

Dr. Shannon (01:10:02.297)
I'm like, if someone comes in here and touches me, I will.

Rachael Hutchins (01:10:19.222)
an incredible tool is to be able to hold them skin to skin and do this breath. That will also regulate their nervous system.

Dr. Shannon (01:10:24.229)
Mm-hmm. yes. I'm so glad you mentioned that because there was a video I saw recently. think it was someone was getting some like cranial work done and they were holding their baby and you could see the cranial work that was getting done to the mom that was working on baby as she was holding. Like, it was so cool. And so that's, mean, that's why I love taking care of mom and baby in that dyad because there is that connection there. So...

Rachael Hutchins (01:10:49.421)
Yeah.

There is a connection and that's one that like I took into like toddlerhood. Like, cause again, like toddlers are not always rational and they are, they haven't figured out how to communicate and it's more frustrating as they get older and they're learning how to, you know, exist. If you can sit with them and breathe with them, it's going to benefit you and them. It's an incredible tool. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:10:53.349)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:10:57.624)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:08.349)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:13.005)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. All the way around. Okay, so our community and professional support. This is another section of postpartum thriving kit. So we've actually talked, I don't know how in depth we want to go with all that because we have talked a lot about this, especially with like partner and family, like utilizing like that close village. And that's, we talked a lot about like the expectations. You mentioned that.

Rachael Hutchins (01:11:30.062)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:40.647)
kind of going over that prenatally, but like really saying, asking for like, this is what you need. And even in that like nursing realm or you're not wanting, you what can they do to support you while you are doing this task? And then also what can be done to help you when you are like trying to be limited in your mobility, you know, as far as like not wanting to go up and downstairs too much or do too many.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:03.341)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:08.785)
too many things. think that's probably the number one thing that I see most of my type A people pleasing productive moms. Hello. Identify as that. I know right. Do you feel personally attacked by that? That's one of the biggest things is the the that not necessarily asking for help but like letting others help as well too.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:19.726)
I don't know why you gotta call me out.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:38.414)
Absolutely, you have to allow people to help you people want to help so I think it's twofold people you have to you have to give way You have to surrender some control and allow other people to help you other people want to help you They also kind of need to know what to do Right because I think what I see the the downfall was some postpartum preparation is some assuming

Dr. Shannon (01:12:41.115)
Mm-hmm. People want to help. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:49.502)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:13:07.372)
I've got great family and friends. They're gonna help, period. Okay, well let's go deeper. Who can bring groceries? Who do you feel comfortable with doing chores around your house? Who do you feel comfortable letting your baby be taken care of by? Who do you trust if you can go take a nap, you can leave your baby with them? Those are all different people, right? Is there someone who can help with the dog? Is there someone who can help organize a meal train?

Dr. Shannon (01:13:10.203)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:13:17.457)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:13:29.948)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:13:36.472)
give those people specific tasks, ask for their help, tell them exactly what you want them to do and they will be elated to help you and knowing what they can do versus just like assuming the standard which is bringing some food over and visiting with the baby. You know, I think that's not meaningful support and it's not helpful. So that's where like Hannah's postpartum plan, that's exactly what Hannah's postpartum class works through because not everyone thinks about, I didn't think about like

Dr. Shannon (01:13:52.183)
Mm-hmm. Is that really helpful? Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:03.418)
Hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:14:06.702)
My dog needs exercise every day and me and my husband are going be exhausted. who's going to help? Can I have, can I have someone take care of the dogs with the dogs more at ease? So then I'm more at ease because if the dog is anxious, right? So like you think through the things that you maybe didn't versus just food. Food is not the only thing you need to think through, right? And so working through that with the friends and family circles.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:08.846)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:17.807)
Mm-hmm. It's another thing off your plate. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:27.516)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:30.895)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:14:31.532)
and setting like who are those intimate support team and then you kind of have your rings that go outward. And if they're on that outward ring, really kind of let those people stay away until you get further into your postpartum, right? Like really only bring in the close people in those early days. And then the communication with your partner, like you already said, and we talked on it earlier, expectations, responsibilities, know, plan with your partner. That's like a different level.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:44.422)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:56.049)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:15:02.289)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:02.404)
than the friends, but working through all of that ahead of time is incredibly beneficial.

Dr. Shannon (01:15:06.397)
Yes. And kind of in line with that, the workbook that you had mentioned that Hannah does. So there's a professional support category as well too. so, I mean, postpartum doula is huge. I know that this is someone coming into your postpartum space. Again, too, looking at that, like the workbook, like let's work through it prenatally.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:16.746)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:29.667)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:35.683)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:15:36.029)
And then looking at postpartum, is that someone that you can pull in to help around the house that you do feel comfortable with because maybe you've got a bunch of friends that haven't had babies and you don't feel comfortable with them or they don't have the knowledge base and you don't want to ask them for advice or support or something like that. So having that postpartum dual is someone to come in or maybe you don't have family nearby or something and it's like you've got the friends but you need something more.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:46.156)
Mm-hmm. Right? Exactly.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:57.184)
Mm-hmm. A huge. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:05.061)
of a professional support, but in a different manner. And I do feel like that postpartum doula is something that can provide, I mean, there's just a wide variety of what they can provide and what services, how long those services are. Like, there's just a lot to that. So.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:06.83)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:17.73)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:23.414)
Yeah. And I think postpartum duals enhance the support that you might already have in place, or they can fill in the gaps. Their goal is to promote rest, bonding, and recovery for your postpartum. They're trained professionals. They have a lot of experience in tending to new moms who have just had babies, as well as newborns. So they can really be an educator too, like an on the job educator, which I think is incredibly beneficial.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:28.817)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:36.465)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:48.113)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:52.12)
A lot of moms and dads talk about the soothing techniques they learned, the breastfeeding tips they learned, you know, all this thing that just came through like being in the same space as someone helping you.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:55.9)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:02.693)
Yeah, they're in the home. They see you moving around. They see what you're doing. It's like, hey, I know something might help this. Maybe be more efficient. Maybe help you rest more.

Rachael Hutchins (01:17:09.334)
Yep. Yes. Yep. They're going to verbally be there to process with you how you're doing, how that night before was, know, light household chores, usually the taking care of the baby while mom eats showers or sleeps, preparing meals. And like you said, there's a range. Some do some of these things. Some don't. Some do more. Some do less. Every postpartum dual is slightly different, but generally that's what they do.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:17.597)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:33.295)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Rachael Hutchins (01:17:37.678)
Most of our doulas really find a sweet spot of going two to three days a week for four to six hours. It's really not a lot of people like, well, I don't need someone every day. No, if you don't need someone every day, fine. But then like you get to let the laundry build up. You can maybe let the dishes go. Like you can let some things go. And then when they're there, that's kind of they, they do those things. Some people like a postpartum doula every day. Some do the overnight postpartum doula support for helping everybody get more sleep. so explore your options.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:51.377)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:18:05.341)
Sometimes you don't know what you're gonna need until you're in it. I've seen that with a lot of moms, a lot of my first time moms. I see that a lot. I think of some in particular, they're like, whoa, and then they bring in all the reinforcements, which I love. That's what I want you to do, but I just think it's cute. We talked about lactation consultants. I think we have like four or five things on our professional support. So lactation consults are a super important one. We talked about that already.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:10.976)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:18.38)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:28.952)
Public floor.

Dr. Shannon (01:18:30.353)
Public floor physical therapists, we talked about that as well too. Some of these, it's like bringing them in prenatally and then also into this, how that changes in that postpartum space that's looking at like the importance of public health. There's a physical and emotional healing, I think too, that pelvic floor PT can provide. Therapists and counselors, we talked about as well too. This is more than just the trusted friend, but like giving you

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:37.024)
Okay.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:53.397)
Absolutely.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:00.446)
tools and resources to use for maybe specific things that you've got going on in your specific history as well too. And screening for things that you may not be aware of as well too. Or maybe you are aware and that's why you know you're there with them or whatnot. But

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:02.744)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:09.514)
and unbiased and removed.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:16.79)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:26.19)
you

Dr. Shannon (01:19:28.187)
I'm giving you a little bit of peace of mind as in like, this a full-blown clinical diagnosis of a depressive disorder or is this just, hey, I just need to chat this out and work through this a bit. It's nice to have that professional lens there on it. yeah, yeah. And yeah, never too late or too early to reach out to those folks.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:33.528)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:39.746)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:45.76)
Absolutely. Can't say that enough.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:58.021)
And then of course, last one on the list, I think is going to be a chiropractor. I do love seeing the moms prenatally and continuing it into postpartum. I feel like postpartum is the hardest area to reach. We are so concerned and consumed in doing everything that we can for happy and healthy baby and with labor and birth as the prenatal aspect. And a lot of moms will do everything that they can.

Rachael Hutchins (01:20:03.234)
Of

Dr. Shannon (01:20:28.903)
prenatally and then I was going to say for whatever reason it drops off in postpartum, but it makes sense. Postpartum is just a lot. just, we literally just talked about how much postpartum is. So I'm not trying to rag on moms. like, then why can't you take care of yourself? You know, like I get it. I get why, but I look at it as a nervous system regulation and helping to facilitate the calmness aspect of things and the healing. That's just another, it's another layer.

there. yes, there's aches and pains that come along with postpartum as well too. So there's a lot of mommy posture issues. So yes, there's that aspect as well too. But a lot of these people are touch points for even more additional support that you might need as well because there could be even other people that can connect you with.

Rachael Hutchins (01:20:59.413)
Absolutely.

Rachael Hutchins (01:21:19.032)
They can provide additional resources and be more like in tune with you in a different way, in a different perspective than your main care provider for sure. That's one of the great secondary benefits. But also the newborn chiropractic care too, like we tell, I mean, I get it, people want it or don't want it, whatever, but we always recommend it, especially if you're having breastfeeding challenges, we get a lot of like,

Dr. Shannon (01:21:26.831)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:21:31.183)
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit different there.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:21:46.205)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:21:47.44)
they feed so well on this right side, but not on the left side. And we're like, there's probably something in there, right? That, that needs some releasing and a chiropractor can do it and they're gentle. And you know, you need to reset their nervous system too. And I know we've talked about in other episodes about like what the baby goes through in birth and like that even the smooth birth can have trauma on a newborn chiropractic care can help reset that. And so baby and mom chiropractic care for comfort and healing for both.

Dr. Shannon (01:21:52.551)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:21:59.346)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:22:05.415)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (01:22:16.913)
I know, because there really is that dyad that, and I like to, I don't like to say, but stressed out parents raise stressed out kids to a degree. But sometimes too stress from baby from birth is coming into mom and mom is stressed because this isn't going well. And it's just this like ebb and flow and ebb and flow. And I see the biggest and best results when mom and baby and dad.

Rachael Hutchins (01:22:27.16)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:22:45.038)
Yeah, he's truly part of the Diane.

Dr. Shannon (01:22:45.534)
because he's part of this or whoever the partner is, they're all part of it. You're all part of it. But if I'm just speaking of mom and baby, we see the benefits there as well too. yeah, newborn chiropractic care, it's safe, gentle, effective, can catch just some nuances of things and stay ahead of some other things as well to really look at all kinds of issues. Because you can have...

Anyhow, we've done a bunch of episodes on that, but it doesn't have to be an issue. And the same for you to go see a chiropractor for your newborn. And it's kind of the same thing we talked about with lactation consultants, like go. Just go and see and have an assessment. I'd rather you come in and I'd be like, hey, your baby's good. Let's just check him again, you know, in whatever timeframe. I do try to be very...

Rachael Hutchins (01:23:24.748)
Yeah, even if there's not an issue.

Rachael Hutchins (01:23:31.244)
Yeah, you get that reassurance.

Dr. Shannon (01:23:36.529)
factual with people on that though, because I don't want to be that type of person where it's like, everybody needs care all the time. you know, like it's, it's, there are aspects to it. So finding someone and finding someone that's certified to work with prenatal patients and children as well. really liked the International Chiropractic Pediatric Association. So, but then these professional support people can push you also to other maybe like community groups as well too, or getting you, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:23:44.131)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:24:02.894)
They can lead you, they can connect you.

Dr. Shannon (01:24:05.383)
Like home birth midwives, feel like they can sometimes have those little community groups as well too, where you can connect with other moms. So there's local groups of getting some postpartum resources that don't count that out. Just go and be intentional with it too. mean, like social media groups can be good, but they can also bring stress. So just...

Rachael Hutchins (01:24:10.03)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:24:36.25)
knowing to check out some of those like a group setting or you know play dates or something like that as child gets older and then there's also the postpartum support International group that I really love there's different state chapters and they tend to have different groups and meetings and events as well, too. So there are some community groups or online stuff. So you don't have to go out if you don't want to

Rachael Hutchins (01:24:45.55)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:24:58.572)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think going out once you're further along is a good idea. know, give yourself lots of time to heal and recover before venturing out to like do a stroller walk. But I think the social component of being around other moms in similar phases and stages is incredibly beneficial. And that like in-person connection with someone who's going through it too is so beneficial.

Dr. Shannon (01:25:06.641)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:25:12.913)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:25:29.888)
And like you said about the social media groups, I think there are good groups out there, but just if you're going to be on social media to be part of a group, set the boundary that you're only using it for the group and that you're not like scrolling around and getting lost and down the rabbit hole. Yeah. And yeah, just explore options in your community, wherever you are about what is out there for free group type support for new moms. I think there's all kinds of stuff out there. You just got to kind of.

Dr. Shannon (01:25:41.261)
Yeah, can be intentional with it.

Rachael Hutchins (01:25:58.782)
explore and see what sounds good to you. But I think using your people or using your community leaning into that can be really beneficial at the right time for sure.

Dr. Shannon (01:26:02.322)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:26:12.047)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so hopefully our postpartum thriving kit caring for yourself or caring for baby helped You think about things that you need to do prenatally to help support yourself in the postpartum realm

Rachael Hutchins (01:26:29.356)
Remember you are not alone and you are enough. Just take it one day at a time.