Ep 180: The Importance of Advocacy in Birth: Birth Stories with Heather Fasano

In this episode of the Aligned Birth Podcast, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael interview Heather Fasano, who shares her profound journey through pregnancy, loss, and motherhood. Heather discusses her experiences with both of her pregnancies, highlighting the stark differences in care and emotional support she received. The conversation delves into the challenges of navigating healthcare during pregnancy, the importance of mental health, and the empowerment that comes from advocating for oneself in medical settings.  Heather's story emphasizes the significance of informed choices and the need for compassionate care in the birthing process.

Heather emphasizes the importance of having a supportive birth team (which included Doula Rachael's team and Dr. Shannon!), the empowerment that comes from knowledge, and the emotional journey of motherhood. The discussion highlights the significance of feeling safe and supported during labor and the impact of a positive birth experience on postpartum recovery.

Transcript

Dr. Shannon (00:01.55)
Hello, hello, this is the Align Birth Podcast. I am Dr. Shannon, one of the hosts. We've got Dula Rachel here, who is also a host. And today we have a special guest. So there's three people on the interview today. We have a mama who has used both Dula Rachel and Dula Hannah's services at North Atlanta Birth Services and has used my office at Sunrise Chiropractic and Wellness. And so she's got some babies and we're gonna talk about her.

birth, prenatal history, her birth story, the difference between the two stories, the difference between her two postpartum journeys and how different her kids are. And we just want her to share all of her good info today in a wonderful and meaningful way. So again, Heather Fasano is on the show today. She's a native of Georgia, mom of two boys under three.

And she works as a medical education specialist for a large medical device company and has a master's in health communication. After reflecting on the care she received during and following the loss of her first pregnancy and after the subsequent birth of her first son, Heather began her journey towards physical and mental healing. This journey led her to a better understanding of her options during pregnancy, birth and postpartum, including holistic resources and their very real impact on the body and mind.

and ultimately a more empowered pregnancy, labor, and postpartum experience with her second son. I'm so excited to have you on today. So hello, Rachel, and hello, Heather.

Heather Fasano (01:34.798)
Hello, excited to be here. Thanks guys.

Rachael Hutchins (01:36.141)
Hello. Yes. I love when we get to share the birth stories together and when it's someone that we kind of know, Dr. Shannon and I get to, you know, have experiences together like this. and when they're extra special clients makes me so happy.

Dr. Shannon (01:37.55)
Yay!

Heather Fasano (01:52.62)
day.

Dr. Shannon (01:54.548)
And we will say, we were talking before coming on, that we have been trying to do this interview for a hot minute, but persistence and perseverance has paid off. But that's what happens when you've got three moms. we all have two boys. Three moms, all with two boys. I know, all in different stages of it. So we make it work.

Heather Fasano (02:16.086)
Well, that's very true.

Dr. Shannon (02:23.032)
my, sorry. Again, I'm really excited to have you on today. I don't, you know, in looking, because we've got like outlines of like, okay, these are such amazing points in your story that we want you to be able to kind of chat about. But I guess we could start, or where do you feel comfortable starting just to help? I really want to highlight that difference that you had with that first pregnancy.

and that whole journey and the second one, because that's what I remember most from when I met you. But if anything before that leads to it, kind of go for it. But yeah, tell us about those pregnancies and the differences.

Heather Fasano (03:03.598)
goodness, okay, so I'm gonna try and not belabor the point or belabor, but I'm right. But I'm gonna try to kind of keep things moving because this is like truly a journey. And both of you guys came into my lives at different points, but you came in at the right points in time, I think. And so a little bit of pre-work, I guess, before I really got to know you Shannon, and started chiropractic care with you was,

Rachael Hutchins (03:09.473)
You

Heather Fasano (03:33.198)
My husband and I, we were having some trouble getting pregnant. We knew we wanted to start a family and so we started kind of dabbling down the road of looking into working with like a fertility clinic. And so we actually started that process because it had been over a year and we just, we didn't have a baby. So we looked into different fertility options and had all the blood worked on. we do, you know, you do the tests and I will point out that

Fertility is a two-way street. So definitely get your partner looked at as well as yourself if you are a woman listening to the podcast. I think oftentimes that's overlooked. So that's a ping of information that I learned in this whole process. So that being said, my husband got on some medication and things were looking up and we actually conceived naturally, which was super exciting.

And unfortunately that pregnancy resulted in a missed miscarriage, which is my body didn't know that the baby was no longer living, unfortunately. And so my body continued on with the pregnancy. had no signs or symptoms of miscarriage. It was just a surprise, unfortunately, when we went to a routine appointment with an OB and unfortunately there was no heartbeat. So...

And then we had to go down the path of how to manage that pregnancy loss. And there's always options out there, but I did like a medicated, medicated abortion is what it's called. And so unfortunately, so I carried baby number one for about 12 weeks, but we think he or she passed probably around like the eight week mark, seven, eight week mark. So that was really tough to like start out on the journey.

Dr. Shannon (05:25.346)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (05:27.266)
And it was something that we really wanted and we were really excited about. so to kind of come fall short, if you will, was tough. we ended up having a trip to Italy after that. We were planning on going to Italy while I was pregnant. And we were able to take the trip and kind of refresh. It was a great opportunity for us to reconnect after loss.

Dr. Shannon (05:37.197)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (05:56.382)
And then we hit the ground running, so to speak, when we got back from Italy. And my Christmas gift that year was a positive pregnancy test again. And so that begins the journey of our successful first pregnancy and the birth of my first son. So very interesting kind of, but I think it sets the precedent for like subsequent pregnancies and then my experience. So baby number one, his name is Forest. So.

I already had kind of the worry and fear in the back of my mind because we hadn't had a successful first pregnancy. So that always weighs on you. And then when you're going through the experience with, I didn't do a lot of research or selection in finding my OB. It was kind of like, who could get me in? Because it's hard to find availability with providers when you're pregnant, ironically. So we kind of went with the first option of who could get us in.

Dr. Shannon (06:46.434)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (06:52.814)
everything was going swimmingly. We made it past the, all the blood work was good. We made it past the first couple of ultrasounds. And so we were in that process of going back to the OB every couple of weeks. And I think it was around like week 27 maybe, or maybe it was a little bit before, so maybe like week 25. Anyways, a little after halfway,

and I went into a routine appointment. I had my glucose test, which if you know, know, had the blood draw, the whole shebang. And then they whisked me back and did, you know, your blood pressure check. And this is where it all begins. So my blood pressure came back high and I never had high blood pressure before. Didn't really think anything of it. And I just remember the look on the NP's face who was in there with me that day was like,

Rachael Hutchins (07:25.64)
you

Dr. Shannon (07:27.288)
Mm-hmm

Heather Fasano (07:49.784)
terrified like she was worried she had a student in there with her and she just immediately kind of went into panic mode and Which caused me and my husband to go into panic mode? And she threw out the word preeclampsia like immediately and I will preface this to say my my blood pressure was not in that range preeclampsia is a very real thing I'm not trying to dismiss it, but it was just a little bit elevated

Dr. Shannon (08:01.134)
I'm gonna be in panic mode, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (08:18.229)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (08:19.15)
And so I asked if they could take my blood pressure manually versus using the BP on a stick machine, as I call it. And so the student took my blood pressure or tried to, didn't instill lot of confidence. She was having a hard time using and taking it manually. So there were just a lot of moments in that encounter where I was like, this isn't going well. And you know,

Dr. Shannon (08:47.022)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (08:48.616)
your blood pressure goes up, right? Like this is just how it works. And I asked to speak to the OB that was on staff because they were wanting to admit me to triage and they were talking about trying to keep the baby in as long as possible and really like going down like worst case scenario option, which was terrifying for me after having a loss already. And knowing we were at this part in our pregnancy where it was like

Dr. Shannon (08:52.002)
Yes.

Heather Fasano (09:16.95)
Is the baby viable? Like what's gonna happen? And the OB never came in. And they sent me down to triage. And then I spent that day in triage hooked up to all the monitors. I was fine. My blood pressure was fine. I remember the nurse in triage was like, well, no wonder you're stressed out when I told her what was going on.

So they watched me that day, I watched some friends on the television, missed work that day, but all that to say I was fine. They did some additional blood work, urine testing, know, all those things. But that was kind of like the turning, the point of no return in that pregnancy, I think. Every single time I went back to the doctor's office for a visit, I was terrified.

Dr. Shannon (10:08.78)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (10:09.048)
to be put, and I already studied, struggled with diagnosed anxiety and depression. So that really exacerbated things. And I asked my provider if we could like take my blood pressure at the end of my visits, or if I could take it, like could they step out of the room and my husband could take it with me. And the answer was always no. I was told at one point that they couldn't open my medical records until they entered my blood pressure, which

Dr. Shannon (10:14.371)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (10:38.156)
I work in healthcare, so I know that's not true. And so it just became this battle of trying to get me to go into these appointments. To be frank, I skipped several, because I just didn't want to go in and have the battle of, we need to send you to triage. Well, we need to do this. We need to do that. I ended up taking my blood pressure at home, keeping a very detailed chart, and never had

Dr. Shannon (10:40.892)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (10:58.712)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (11:08.182)
any high readings at home. And so my OB finally diagnosed me with right hypertension and she heard me out at least a little bit. Hi, hello, this is me. And it was, it just, it's a very real thing. I mean, my husband had to be with me every time because he was like my advocate in my voice a lot because I would just.

Dr. Shannon (11:19.692)
Me too, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (11:25.486)
It's a real thing.

Heather Fasano (11:36.246)
when I get super anxious, sometimes I just clam up or I hyperventilate and I need someone to speak for me. So it was just really challenging. And then towards the end of that pregnancy, it was like, okay, well, Heather, you probably need to go in like a couple times, right? Like, again, I had skipped several appointments because they were the weekly ones. And I was like, absolutely not. This is so stressful. This is such a process for me to go in. Like this is doing more harm to me and...

my unborn baby frankly then, then, you know, the alternative was my thought. So I think I went in for my 38 week appointment, I think it was. and maybe it was my 39 week appointment. I can't remember exactly, but they had kept trying to push to induce me because of my blood pressure. Again, my blood pressure was never high at home. was

I high when I went into my appointments and I didn't want to be induced. I'm data driven. I like looking at research and so I had already done my due diligence what I thought was due diligence and determining what I wanted my birth to be and I didn't want to go down the route of induction because of just kind of like the cascade of interventions that typically follow with it. So.

Dr. Shannon (12:37.506)
Thank

Heather Fasano (13:01.614)
I kept pushing back on that, pushing back on that. then I think at that 29 week appointment, I had started feeling like a little crampy that morning. So I told my OB and she was like, well, why don't we just like check you? I was like, eh, okay, whatever. And so she checked me and she was like, you're like a centimeter dilated. And she's like, well, maybe, you know, maybe this will be it and we won't have to introduce you. And I'm like, great.

Like I would love a natural birth like week early. Okay, I gotta use the extra time to prep at home, but whatever. So come to find out as we were checking out, we were kind of joking back and forth of the whole like, well maybe I'll see you later. Like she's like, I'm on staff today. So I really want you to have this baby today so I can be there. And we're like, yeah, wouldn't that be great? And she tells me that she actually stripped my membranes while she checked me.

So she didn't ask. She didn't even tell me until like the very end when we were leaving. And both Matt and I were like kind of just taken aback by that. Like that's kind of violating. And so I went to the bathroom immediately after. I started bleeding a little bit. There was some discharge there and I was like, okay. Not ideal, obviously, but we went home.

Dr. Shannon (14:12.384)
Yeah, like what do you

Heather Fasano (14:29.944)
I mean, like, what do do at that point? Like, well, now we're here. So, continued to cramp that day and ended up having contractions. They progressed that evening and we went into the hospital like, midnight, a little bit after midnight that day. And so I tried to wait it out when we got to the hospital. I wasn't that far along. And again, I didn't want...

Dr. Shannon (14:31.81)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (15:00.344)
Pitocin like I was trying to do no epidural like the whole thing So I went and I sat in their tub for several hours until the Sun came up. I watched Harry Potter and And at like 7 a.m. When they came to check on me for breakfast, I was like, I'm exhausted I've been cramping since like 6 a.m. The previous morning. This has just been like a whirlwind of a day and I know I still I'm have to push and so at that point I chose

Dr. Shannon (15:10.712)
You

Heather Fasano (15:28.526)
And I like to say I chose, Rachel, you kind of taught me that. I chose to get an epidural. And had that, it was great. Did the trick, took a nap. And then later that afternoon, had, Forrest was born. And that birth was very interesting. Matt was my only support person in the room. I didn't have my mom or anything. And I knew it didn't like want to push on my back. That was like another big thing for me.

And of course they always tell you, you get the epidural and then you can't eat, which I have feelings about. And then they want you to push on your back because you've lost sensation and it's a risk if you get in another position and all this stuff. And I was like, I don't feel good pushing on my back. They were trying to get me to do it. And I was like, this doesn't feel right. This feels very uncomfortable. kept saying, what are my other options? And luckily one of the sweet nurses that was in there was like,

we can get you a squat bar if you think you can pull yourself up and hold yourself up. And I was like, for sure, like I can feel my legs. And I ended up getting the squat bar and it felt so much better. And I was able to, you know, really feel empowered when I was pushing and I pushed the way I wanted to push. so that was kind of the first one. and Forrest was born and yeah, that was that. So I'll pause there.

Dr. Shannon (16:57.186)
Hold on, well, you cut out just a little bit like right when you had gotten the squat bar. And so I don't know, I wanna make sure we hear it in case it didn't like record record, but, cause it was just a little section there. So yeah, just like how he was born. You got the squat bar and squatted him out.

Heather Fasano (16:59.995)
yeah.

Heather Fasano (17:07.694)
a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So really, but I did, I got the squat bar. They still wanted me to do like the purple pushing, which is like the hold the breath push. And I was like, that doesn't feel right either. And so I did a couple pushes where I was actually, like I was like contracting my body and I was breathing out and pushing and he came out in a couple pushes, which was

Dr. Shannon (17:22.294)
Hmm.

Heather Fasano (17:36.494)
fantastic in my opinion. So although it wasn't the exact birth I had pictured, we had a successful baby boy and he was here and he was happy and he was healthy and I was just overjoyed to be on kind of the other side. And I will say, I didn't have high blood pressure the whole time I was in the hospital. So that was another thing where my OB was like, you really don't have

Dr. Shannon (18:01.198)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (18:06.478)
high blood pressure and I was like, well, I've been trying to tell you guys that for nine months. So that was an interesting experience. And then we ended up having to stay a little while longer in mother baby because force had John this unfortunately. And that was a very interesting piece of postpartum that nobody really focuses on. I think a lot on the birth and the labor and pregnancy, but there's

Dr. Shannon (18:10.862)
You

Heather Fasano (18:35.094)
a lot to be said about mother-baby immediately after and what you go through mentally if you're having to stay. Should anything come up with you or your baby? And that's something that I don't think I was prepared for. And I think that stress and that PTSD of being trapped in a room, not being able to leave, constant blood pressure checks.

really re-amped my anxiety and of course then they were worried I was having, you know, preeclampsic symptoms again, essentially after birth and all I wanted to do was like get that IV out and I just wanted to be there for my baby and again, they wouldn't allow me to check my own blood pressure, they wouldn't allow Matt to do it for them. So there was just a lot of restrictions.

Dr. Shannon (19:13.272)
postpartum. Yeah.

Heather Fasano (19:32.344)
placed on us in that mother baby room. And I think by the end of it, Matt and I were just like completely burned out. We were so stressed out. We started supplementing with formula like immediately and breastfeeding is like all another journey. it, we were all very glad to come home. But I think that that whole experience really.

scarred me, but it did kind of. It really tainted the whole pregnancy, birth, postpartum, like, you know, this vision that you have. And I started going to therapy after that, which was a good thing. And I started going to chiropractic care after that, which is when I met you. And you changed everything for me. So I'll just put that out there.

Dr. Shannon (20:14.338)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (20:18.688)
Yay! Yeah! I know, I was looking through old notes. Aww! So fun!

Dr. Shannon (20:30.644)
It's, I think that story's a good example though of like, I mean, it's the definition of trauma. There's different levels of it, but you know, like you still, I wanna be delicate with this, but like you still had, air quotes, like the optimal birth for you, you know? But there were parts of it that weren't, that still impacted your birth, your mental space, your health. So I...

Heather Fasano (20:49.144)
Great. Great.

Dr. Shannon (20:56.15)
I don't want some people to think, well, my birth wasn't traumatic enough to warrant the thoughts and feelings that I have versus, mean, you know, so I think I like that you shared, you know, the very real parts of it as far as like, well, I wanted this, I didn't have this, and this is what was the interaction with, you know, the providers and everything and how you handled it. I know.

Heather Fasano (21:00.479)
Yeah!

Heather Fasano (21:20.27)
And I think that's important too, like nobody in this whole like comparison, know, comparison is a thief of joy comparison now in this day and age of anything health related, especially being a mom, you know, there's, there's all these different levels. Like you mentioned of, okay, well, you know, my experience could have been more traumatic or I didn't get the outcome that we wanted or, know, God forbid, like we lost the baby.

Rachael Hutchins (21:46.335)
you

Heather Fasano (21:49.996)
you know, after birth or late, you know, late stage pregnancy loss or whatever. But, and a lot of the support that I've come to find now after having two kids in that journey is nobody's experience is less than anybody else's. it's, you are, you know your truth and so,

There's no level of trauma that's worse than somebody else's. If you've experienced it, then it's true. It's your trauma. So I think that that's important to remember, because I also felt that way, especially before I started coming to U of Shannon and exploring options and resources out there for grief. And before I started going to therapy, I felt like I didn't have a right to share the negatives of my experience and my like...

Dr. Shannon (22:21.027)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (22:45.912)
pregnancy experience and my labor experience because I had a healthy baby boy. That's a hard thing too because if you can't share it then you can't really process it either, which I think is really important, regardless of what the outcome was or is. So that's a really good point.

Rachael Hutchins (22:50.701)
Mm.

Dr. Shannon (22:51.992)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (23:05.099)
Yeah, I feel like this is something that I learned through motherhood and that I've witnessed so much through my doula work is the two truths or like multiple truths. And this is what we talk a lot with our clients too, because we'll hear birth stories, you know, either previous births or after the birth. And it's always just validating the real things that happened and that they felt that are happening alongside the joy and the gratitude. Right. Like we, your

Heather Fasano (23:32.61)
Yeah

Rachael Hutchins (23:34.991)
the negative things that happen to you don't negate the fact that you're grateful for a healthy baby, but having a healthy baby should not negate the negative things you experienced. And what is negative or unpleasant or unsatisfying for one person is different than other people, right? And so it's definitely, and this is the more you, I encourage people when they're talking their birth stories and sharing with other people and in circles with

Dr. Shannon (23:44.686)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (24:04.663)
other moms to talk about it in this way and to validate them in that way because then it helps them learn, you know, how to process and talk about birth with other people. And that's how we can kind of be able to share authentically about our birth stories, no matter how they went and then be able to listen with the, can I hear where they struggled and can I hear the good and, and then be able to validate. And that's what I hear you doing. And I hear, and I hear those hard, hard

parts for sure. And I also hear, you know, advocacy and I hear perseverance and you know, so like you, took the things that were not easy and you found ways to work through them. And I did want to highlight a couple of things that you share just as an opportunity to like, for our listeners to learn. but like the high, the blood pressure, we see this unfortunately a lot and figuring out how to help people navigate it so they don't end up in this, on this path.

Dr. Shannon (24:57.23)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:02.648)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:03.137)
of unnecessary intervention, but we want to take high blood pressure seriously. But one thing you did that I love and recommend for certain individuals is that doing it at home. you know, you can, what is it like not, not meter it, but you can like check your cuff to like, what is it, calibrate.

Dr. Shannon (25:07.757)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:22.296)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:25.485)
You know, make sure your cuff's good. Make sure it's re you know, take it on your husband, take it on someone, you know, make sure it's getting the right readings. You can take it into into your OB's office. Yep. Calibrate it so that way everyone's happy, you know, logging it. That should be acceptable. And then if you're only having elevated readings in the office and you're good at home, like this is like the proof in the like that you should not have been labeled as a high blood pressure and patient.

Heather Fasano (25:33.208)
We did.

Heather Fasano (25:44.014)
you

Dr. Shannon (25:48.748)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:54.178)
But the ER lady said the same, like, this is what gets me is if you've got normal readings and then there's sometimes there's that one incident of it goes up. Yes, that can be like the beginnings of preeclampsia, but also I had the same thing. They were asking me all these crazy questions at one of my appointments. I'm like, well, you're freaking me out right now. I don't know what's going on. And then they took my blood pressure. And from that point on, I was like, well, now you just freaked me out. Now I'm just freaked out. So it's also like that documentation, the notes, so then you can kind of assess everything.

So I'm glad Rachel's mentioning like, yes, those offices should let you take it at home because I did mine at home. Because I was like, everybody stresses me out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (26:25.891)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (26:27.117)
Yeah, that's like an option, right? And so you mentioned that you did that, that, then that gives you the confidence to like, like everything's cool. Everything's fine here. Yeah. but then also having, you know, that provider that's going to not create that extra stress, hopefully, right? Like that, that provider that's in alignment as much as possible. And I know that that was a contrast from your first year or second. and that's a journey too, but realizing like, how does this person make me feel? How are they treating me? You know,

Dr. Shannon (26:34.882)
Mm-hmm, like I'm fine. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (26:42.573)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (26:55.021)
all along the way so that you can constantly be aware of like is are we in alignment here? Am I being treated the way are they listening to me? Are they respecting me? All of that. But I know that that was part of your journey too and I know we'll get to that. And then the other thing you mentioned which was the non-consent, non-consenting stripping of your membranes. So for anyone who doesn't know stripping the membranes is you know when they go in when the provider typically

what goes into the cervix and, you know, detaches the sac from the cervix. The goal of that is to release prostaglandins. Prostaglandins helps soften the cervix. It can help get you into labor. It can help prepare your cervix for labor. It also has risk. This is not something that should be done non-consensually. So what I want listeners to know is like if you're consenting to a cervical check,

those should be, you should be consenting to those. There should be permission and it should be talked about like why we're doing it and like what information you're gathering and all of that. And then to make sure you clearly state like, like, do not strip my membranes. Like this is only a cervical check. Like you have to be that advocate in that space if you're consenting to the cervical check. but know that you should not, no one should be stripping your membranes without your consent. Full stop.

And so just want to listeners to know like that is something that can be done and that people choose to do to help help, you know, get you into labor or prepare you for labor doesn't always work. and if it works, it works within 24, 48 hours. does. It can cause unnecessary and uncomfortable cramping spotting, which can make people worry. and it increases your risk of rupturing your membranes prematurely and infection. so, you know, that's, that's the information that should be given to you prior to that happening.

And so I'm so sorry that happened. That is fully violating and not cool and I'm so sorry.

Heather Fasano (28:54.243)
Thank you. Yeah. still like, after that is just still in shock like to this day that it happened. And when I talked to like my friends and other folks that are, know, pregnant or nearing the end of pregnancy or whatever, you know, it's not something I want to point out, Rachel, but like you mentioned

Dr. Shannon (28:54.509)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (29:03.394)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (29:19.222)
I feel like a lot of, I mean not a lot, but a lot of the folks that I've spoken with or interacted with don't know all the things that they could be doing during a cervical check. Like there's a very limited knowledge oftentimes on what actually is happening and why it's happening because you just go in for these like 15 minute visits towards the end of your pregnancy and they're like, we're gonna do this. And you're like, okay, whatever. Like this is just the part.

Dr. Shannon (29:30.838)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (29:49.749)
of pregnancy, this is normal. And if you don't do your due diligence or you don't ask questions, you can ... And a lot of times it's fine, right? And that's their standard of care and that's just the path they're going down. And you'll be fine. Your pregnancy, your labor will all be fine. But there are risks associated with it and there are

repercussions, even if it's not like a risk, there are things that could happen if they do XYZ intervention. so, you know, with like the stripping of the membranes, like I can't help but wonder, especially in now comparing to my second experience, if that made, if that really drew out like the pre-labor and my labor, because it was very long. I mean,

It was over 24 hours. It was almost like 36 hours of the labor process from when those crampings started. And I just wonder if maybe if she hadn't have done that, maybe like my uterus would have calmed down. We could have waited another day or two and then my body would have been fully ready to really go into labor. And maybe it would have been maybe not quicker, but a little bit more natural. And I wouldn't have been so tired by the time it came to push.

Dr. Shannon (31:03.448)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (31:13.71)
and he did the epidural. you know, there's all these like coulda, shoulda, woulda's, I think that's definitely something to consider and just being empowered as a pregnant woman to say, wait, why are you doing that? Or what's going on is really important. And if you don't have a provider that is honest with you or that tells you those things or is hesitant to tell you, like maybe take a pause and...

Dr. Shannon (31:16.429)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (31:41.302)
Reassess whether that provider is like a really good fit for you. I think that's a big thing I took away from baby number one was I always have a choice and who cares for me and who cares for my family and I can always say no and it's never too late to switch or find somebody else even if you're towards the end of your pregnancy, so If it doesn't feel right You you have time. It's okay To go back to the drawing board and find the right fit

Rachael Hutchins (31:44.751)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:08.098)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (32:11.277)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (32:11.695)
Yeah, you've always got to kind of be listening to that intuition. And the more we listen to it, the sooner and often, especially as we're becoming new moms, the more tune we become to it. And I think that's great advice and I hope people will take that to heart. have a client right now who is 38 weeks and switching providers. So, you know, it can be done and it's taking a lot of work, but it's worth it. But yeah, with the cervix, it's done routinely in so many offices and

Dr. Shannon (32:12.322)
Hmm.

Heather Fasano (32:28.078)
Yay. Yep, you can be done.

Rachael Hutchins (32:41.551)
You know, sometimes it's like they start at 38 weeks, maybe 39 with the, let's just see where you're at. it's given, it's presented as like, we're going to take your blood pressure. We're going to like, it's given as like a, like you said, standard of care, but vital sign. Yeah. Like this is like standard routine. We do it for everyone. And they're rarely painting the picture of like, this is what's happening with your service. There's a, there's a whole educational component that needs to happen.

Dr. Shannon (32:54.675)
Like a vital sign that's what it's like. Yeah, this is our normal

Dr. Shannon (33:08.728)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (33:11.043)
And that like we try to provide of like, here's your, here's what happens with the cervix during pregnancy. Here's what happens as you're going into labor. Here's what happens as you're like deep into labor. Like there's a lot that happens. And if you get a check and like you put all your weight into like, maybe you're not dilated yet. And that's the only information you are gathering and you don't know, there's so much more. Like if that's all we try and help if you choose to get it, please know that there's like a facement, they're softening, ripening, right? There's dilation.

Position of your cervix does it point towards your tailbone or toward like there's so much so much Yeah So a little bit of it I like to take the opportunity to like talk about like, okay So if you get that first of all get consent ask about the reasoning you're doing it and gather all the information

Heather Fasano (33:44.376)
so much. There's so much.

Rachael Hutchins (34:02.167)
and then the other little note I had too, was about how you advocated for your squat bar. Kudos. I love that, especially cause you didn't, had, it's not like had a doula with you and you were given some resistance too. And I think from what I like, you're the way you described your story. It's like that totally probably helped you be able to breathe your baby out. Cause you had gravity helping you out and like,

Heather Fasano (34:07.907)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:27.661)
The idea that you can't be in positions that are gravity friendly with an epidural is false. So I love that. And I love that you kind of you pushed for it. And I want listeners to hear that because my experience is like, even when I'm there, I have to ask multiple times for the squat bar. It's like they don't want to go get it. And that's fine. Everyone's busy. Right. But advocate for that thing because it can make a difference.

Heather Fasano (34:48.046)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (34:54.67)
Totally totally. I remember men Matt was so funny like when we were reflecting on it. He was like you got like Angry like and I was like well I mean when you're in labor and granted I had a rap a girl but like you still feel what's going on and I'm like and they kept saying no no and I was like I'm not pushing on my back like I think when like rubber met the road for me I turned into

like mama bear and was like, I need this or I'm doing this. And I didn't know that, I didn't realize.

that I did have some sense of control in my pregnancy and labor until actually talking with you, Rachel, and Hannah, and the doula experience with baby number two, of you did take control. You were making decisions and you were doing a lot of that even though you felt like a lot of it was taken away from you. I think being able to capitalize, so to speak, on the moments where...

Dr. Shannon (35:38.645)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (36:02.862)
you can reinsert yourself as the leader of your experience is really empowering to reflect on and to not diminish that. Like you put in, I asked for my epidural. They didn't tell me to get one. I asked for it. And so that was my choice. And then the squat bar, I advocated for that. I asked for that. So that was my choice. So I think if anybody's listening and maybe they've

just gone through the labor experience and just feel kind of ick about maybe it didn't follow the plan that they wanted. Try and identify those moments where you were this powerful mama bear moment and hold onto those positives, I guess.

Rachael Hutchins (36:50.967)
Yes. Yes. Please. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (36:51.79)
I love it. I know. I feel like a little bit of your story is like, you're telling me I have hypertension and you're stripping my membranes. You will give me a squat bar, you know? Like, was like your moment.

Heather Fasano (37:04.718)
Bye.

Rachael Hutchins (37:08.089)
Well, that's like the hurt that had such a good point of like, there were moments that like, weren't your control, but then focusing on what was and trying to like, and.

Dr. Shannon (37:11.298)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And Matt's saying, he got really angry. I can just...

Heather Fasano (37:13.635)
Mm-hmm.

Look

Yeah, it's like, wow.

Rachael Hutchins (37:20.813)
You're like, yes, you can call it angry, but I'm just mama bear.

Dr. Shannon (37:25.148)
yeah, I love it.

Rachael Hutchins (37:28.929)
Well and I'd love to hear so you had gotten to the point of where you met Dr. Shannon for post baby number one post-phorus so do you want to pick up there?

Heather Fasano (37:33.048)
Thank you.

Heather Fasano (37:38.638)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (37:42.124)
Yeah, so started going, like I said, I started therapy and we started chiropractic care and like I'm a chiropractic girly. I've been going since high school, seen many different providers, but I really wanted one that was, also adjust for us. That was big for me. And then, you know, kind of a holistic approach and pregnancy. didn't plan on getting pregnant very soon thereafter, but twist I did.

Dr. Shannon (38:00.131)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (38:11.214)
the prize. So started going and really Shannon, like you opened my eyes because you asked me about like my birth experience and no one had really done that before because you took that into consideration when like developing a plan for me and like some of the things I was feeling was related to the birthing process. So that really like opened a door for me and you started really introducing me to a lot of different

resources, a lot of different information about labor, birth, pregnancy, mind-body connection, and you pointed out and validated the experience I had, which was really nice. No one had really done that before. And so I just want to thank you because that really, like, that was a big deal and that changed a lot for me. So we kept coming.

Dr. Shannon (38:59.182)
I'm gonna cry.

Heather Fasano (39:06.638)
Forrest and I kept coming and then lo and behold, a couple of months later, I remember looking at him and I'm I'm pregnant again. And you're like, boy. And I was like, yeah, boy. And so with that really, he was like seven or eight months old. And I will like, it took so long for us to get.

Dr. Shannon (39:19.576)
Yeah. Yeah, because how old was Forest?

Dr. Shannon (39:27.19)
Yeah. Yeah. that's fun.

Heather Fasano (39:34.444)
and have a successful baby the first time that like, I didn't really think about it, but I will say like, oftentimes your body figures out what it's doing after like, after a miscarriage or after a successful birth. And so it's like kind of primed to say, okay, rinse, repeat. So just be aware if you're postpartum and you're having a good time, just, you know, I think it can happen quicker than you expect. That being said,

Dr. Shannon (39:35.938)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (40:01.964)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (40:03.886)
really like, think you and I, Shannon, like took a step back and it was like, okay, let's like craft this new experience, right? Like we are going to be like, you were like the number one starter of my like birth support team for baby number two. And it was like, we're going, it's going to be different this time, right? And I was like armed with the knowledge and people and you introduced me to, to Rachel and Hannah. cause I was like, I want a birth, like I want a support team.

Dr. Shannon (40:10.946)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (40:17.262)
you

Dr. Shannon (40:21.705)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (40:34.316)
Like I knew the challenges I would face. I was already worried about running into the whole high blood pressure. I knew I didn't want to go back to that same practice. I didn't want to go back to that same OB. so it was all about, we took a little bit of time, I think, to craft where I landed and to decide where I landed in terms of my care for pregnancy number two. You guys both recommended.

Dr. Shannon (40:44.962)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (40:53.473)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (41:02.922)
OB to me, which was like the concierge medicine. And we talked about a couple different providers in addition to Carson and Hannah, who ended up being my midwives. we really went through and I remember I called a couple different practices. I almost like interviewed providers, midwives or OBs. And I think that

that was really important and that is something that I would recommend anyone who's pregnant do to find that right fit. Like don't just try to get in with the first one who has availability. Find someone you jive with who understands what you've been through and what you want out of the experience. cause I was so antsy to get in to an OB or to get into a provider with baby number one that I overlooked that. And so I think it was like,

I think I was almost all the way through my first trimester before I actually had my first appointment with Rachel and Hannah, with my midwives, because it took that long for me to find someone I liked. And I think that's scary for a lot of people. A lot of people are like, six weeks, eight weeks, you gotta go in, you gotta check this, this, and this, but.

It's okay, I think, to take a little bit of time, unless, obviously, you're having symptoms or something feels wrong, go and explore that. But I think taking a step back and taking time and making sure that you have the right fit is so important.

Rachael Hutchins (42:40.385)
Yeah, and just to add to that, can continue. You like if you felt worried or you wanted that first ultrasound, you can go to the provider you saw before or go to if it's your if it's your first one, go to whoever will get you in if you want that reassurance. But no, you that doesn't mean you're locked in.

Heather Fasano (42:44.866)
the

Heather Fasano (42:56.236)
Yeah, exactly. You could totally.

Rachael Hutchins (42:57.315)
Yeah, and then take your time to interview and find that provider who you're in alignment with. you said was like, and everything that you did with number two is like exactly what we would recommend. So that's great.

Heather Fasano (43:08.098)
Yeah, so, and it was awesome because I didn't know that like concierge medicine existed and granted, know, and you look at it, it might be a little bit more expensive. But I now look at it from the standpoint if it saves me, mean, you know, healthcare is a business, right? Unfortunately, and you know, Forrest's birth was a little bit.

Pricy, insurance covered some things, but overall, we had more interventions and more length of stay. And I will say for baby number two, we didn't have any of that. And so when you look at the cost breakdown, if you're able to avoid some of those interventions or those additional points of care or length of stay, from a cost perspective, it kind of balances out. So it's more like doing the work upfront can help you long-term.

Dr. Shannon (43:51.116)
you

Dr. Shannon (44:02.826)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (44:05.398)
And I hate to put it that way, you but a lot of people also struggle with finances and like pregnancy and kids are expensive. So that's something to think about too when you're cost versus benefit, literal cost versus benefit of choosing a provider or a method of care. And like some, you know, major changes from first to second were

We didn't do my blood pressure when I first walked in the door. That alone was game changing. The environment where I was seen had dim lights, they had twinkle lights. It was comfortable, it was calm when I walked in. I sat in a chair, I didn't immediately have to get up on the table. I had a conversation with my midwife before anything physical would happen.

you know, they were really comprehensive in how are you feeling mentally, like where are you at? What are you experiencing? So it was a whole mind, body, you know, evaluation each time. And then when it did come time to do like my blood pressure check, she would, she was like, lay down on the table, go ahead and lay on your side for a little bit. I'm going to leave the room. Here's the blood pressure machine. When you feel ready, you know, roll back over and Matt can help you take it.

but we'll just be out here, take your time, no rush, blah, blah. And lo and behold, everything looks good. I think I had one spike one time and it wasn't treated like an emergency. It was like, okay, well, what's going on today? I think I was interviewing for a job, that day and I thought that could cause it.

Dr. Shannon (45:50.51)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (45:59.49)
just took it again, took it at home a little bit. And I also learned that there's other things that they could do in terms of like, obviously blood work, but you can take an, you could do an ultrasound and there's some indicators during ultrasound that can support or kind of dispel the idea of like a preeclampsia diagnosis. This preeclampsia, like when you're diagnosing it, it's

Dr. Shannon (46:02.394)
huh.

Heather Fasano (46:28.652)
It's not like a hard and fast. It's like a lot of different vital points or data points that come together for that diagnosis. It's not just like a yes or no. And so there's always some other things that they can do before like labeling you as that, which I didn't know about. So long story short, we were fine. No pre-emcee, no high blood pressure. Everything went back and was gravy essentially until yeah, birth came around.

Dr. Shannon (46:34.594)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (46:58.124)
I can pause there if we wanna, if there's any questions about pregnancy, but I will say, I mean, was just night and day different. Like I wasn't stressed out. I felt empowered the whole time. Like Shannon and I would check in with you, Rachel and Hannah, we'd check in. I think the education and the information that you all provided during the process was just eye-opening. Like we created like a birth plan and.

we determined how involved Matt wanted to be. Because that was another component of birth number one where he was like, I didn't really get to appreciate or experience the birth of Forrest because I was so worried about you and making sure you were okay and that we were okay because he knew how anxious I'd been through the whole thing. And so part of baby number two's plan was

for him to be able to really step back and be like a dad in that room and not have to worry. So knowing that we had doula support there with us, that we had a supportive midwife, that he wouldn't have to be like playing defense for me while I was in labor, like he could just be there experience with me was huge. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (48:12.748)
Hmm, it could be dad. That is huge. That's huge. And that's one of, I love that point to doulas because when I look at my story and I didn't have a doula, I often think of that. Like, I think that would have allowed my husband to focus on me, you know, like to focus on what was important. And so that doula is yes, their labor support, they're with mom, but like, how much does that impact everybody else?

Heather Fasano (48:32.064)
Me? Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (48:42.562)
to allow them the space to be beneficial for mom, you know? Like it just gives them the ability to support how, and maybe they are the one grabbing your leg and saying, peanut ball, and hey, let's do this, let's do that, that's great. But like having, letting there be another voice in there too with a duel to help him be, you know, the support person that you need. So, I love it.

Heather Fasano (48:48.376)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (49:09.612)
Yeah, I know.

Rachael Hutchins (49:09.668)
Well, yeah with dads and partners it's like having the dual of present even if they're even if no one's doing anything their energy in the room shifts because like someone else who we kind of we know a lot more than we know that the nurse or the OB like we've gotten to know each other and they're like this they have all this knowledge about birth like it just lowers everyone's cortisol like just like naturally just being in the same space because they're like, okay if I need anything I've got this person right here.

Dr. Shannon (49:18.018)
Bye.

Heather Fasano (49:35.81)
update.

Rachael Hutchins (49:38.197)
And it does give them more bandwidth and ability to be that emotional support because they're not usually doing like guiding positional changes or stuff like that. Sometimes, yes. But like you said, it's just it's opening up bandwidth for them to be emotionally available and present for the birth. And so, yeah, we we talk a lot about how the partner how we support the partners to and a lot of times dads who are like not sure don't really know until they go through it.

Dr. Shannon (49:48.375)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (49:54.508)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (50:07.715)
And then they're like, okay. Like, I don't know how people do this without doulas. Really in the birth space. And then that preparation that comes beforehand and giving them that like confidence going into the birth of like, you know, you're the protector of this birth space or the protector of her and like giving them that like confidence too. Yeah. No. And I love the parallel for the blood pressure component of your story. That's like, okay, see how it can be done and see how it was different. Yay.

Dr. Shannon (50:11.97)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (50:26.594)
Absolutely.

Dr. Shannon (50:34.188)
What can be done?

Heather Fasano (50:35.75)
Right? It's just, it's not easy. Yes. It's just these little things that anybody, mean, like, I just want to talk to all these large, like, practices and be like, you guys could shift the vibe, you know, of your entire practice, still being compliant, still, you know, meeting all those.

Rachael Hutchins (50:37.173)
and the environment of the room.

Dr. Shannon (50:37.974)
and changed our outcomes.

Dr. Shannon (50:56.43)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (51:03.534)
know, checks and balances, so to speak, of a large institution or facility, but just, you know, get a lamp. Get a lamp in the room. you know, I just, just have someone sit in a chair with a back in it with their feet on the floor, because that impacts blood pressure. It's just those things that I...

Dr. Shannon (51:14.707)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:18.456)
something. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (51:26.502)
you

Heather Fasano (51:28.758)
are just such misses that really contribute to the whole experience. And studying health communication and what my background's in, it's just, I'm like, where do we go wrong as a society or, you know, in teaching providers? And I'm not trying to play out anybody as a bad guy or anything like that. A lot of it's just a product of their training and their environment and what they have to do, but...

you know, there's little things here and there that can really change the experience for your patient. And, you know, you might be seeing, you know, 20 plus patients in a day, but that patient's only seeing you. And that's, you know, you're the one versus the opposite. So it, you know, it really is impactful how that goes. And I just, I think it's overlooked a lot.

Rachael Hutchins (52:22.413)
Yes. And I think it's important to understand what they're working with. you've, you've brought your being empathetic to like the structure and the system, right. And they're gotta see a lot of patients. So they're, this is how it is. But I think it's important to know that that doesn't mean you have to choose that always. And that you can still, even if that is your choice to be there, change some things like we condemn the, you can turn off the lights or you can, especially if there's a window, and something I've even done started doing for myself and talking about.

Dr. Shannon (52:23.086)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (52:42.67)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (52:52.301)
and it blows people's minds. I'm like, when I go to the OB, I don't get undressed until they join, like until they've come in and like, you know, that's like get undressed sit on the table.

Heather Fasano (53:00.396)
Can you sit there?

Dr. Shannon (53:01.704)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (53:03.087)
I'm like, no, no, no. I will sit in this chair with a back with my feet on the floor, exactly as you said, fully dressed. Cause I don't know if you're coming in five minutes or 45. So when you come in, we'll talk, we'll talk person to person, fully dressed and comfortable. And then you can step right out. I know you're right there. I'll get my pants right on off and we can get to business.

Dr. Shannon (53:06.926)
you

Dr. Shannon (53:13.506)
Which is another one of my issues. The link.

Dr. Shannon (53:23.66)
Yes.

Heather Fasano (53:25.71)
Yes!

Rachael Hutchins (53:27.075)
Like if that's what you're working with, like know that you still have autonomy over yourself.

Dr. Shannon (53:34.402)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (53:34.454)
Yes. Nothing more like humbling than having to sit on a cold table with a paper gown for like an hour while you wait on someone.

Rachael Hutchins (53:43.235)
Nope. You don't have to listen to me now. Actually, do not do not just don't. Okay. Sorry to derail the conversation, but we'll, we'll bring it back.

Dr. Shannon (53:43.333)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Heather Fasano (53:47.534)
Kisses!

Heather Fasano (53:56.788)
Yeah. Gosh.

Dr. Shannon (53:56.846)
Okay, so how did this second birth unfold and experience and so with Carson?

Heather Fasano (54:08.814)
Yeah, so totally different than the first time around. Fast and furious is how I describe it. we, everything was swimming along. I think I was like 39 weeks and a couple days. And I had like a great day with Forrest. We hung out that day and this was in January. So was cold, lots of snuggles, good food. And I went to bed that night.

thinking anything of it and I woke up around, I will say, I passed my mucus plug, like naturally that day, which I didn't even know that that was like really a thing, like I kinda knew it was a thing, but I didn't know what to expect. And so I think that's something that is another learning opportunity for people understanding what's going on with your body and what that means. So I had texted my doulas and my midwife and saying, hey, heads up, this happened today, don't.

I don't feel any different, but just letting you know. And I remember you guys came back with, okay, this is what it could mean. could mean babies around the corner. It could mean nothing. It could mean you still got some time. So that being said, I went to bed that night and then got woken up around 1, 1.30-ish. And I was like, hmm, these feel strong. And I been through labor before and I was like, no, I'm pretty sure these are real contractions.

So started timing them on my phone and they were fairly regular at that point and pretty uncomfortable. So I went ahead and woke Matt up and I said, I think it could be baby time. think I'm actually in labor now and let's go ahead and call my mom because she was gonna come down and watch Forest. And so we went ahead and called her and then I remember we called, Hannah was on call as my doula.

And so we called Hannah and we talked through it. And again, my first labor was very long, very long. And so we're like, okay, let's talk about our strategies. Let's breathe through it. Let's get in the bath, know, relax a little bit. And I'm like, cool, great. Like this is gonna be like the ultimate birth. I had my crystals. I had my comb. Like I was ready, right? Like I was prepared for it this time.

Rachael Hutchins (56:28.399)
you

Dr. Shannon (56:28.493)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (56:33.55)
So Matt drew me up the bath, my mom got to the house, was still asleep, thank goodness, and I'm in the bath, and I'm like, woo, these are really not feeling so good, and I remember I threw up in the bath, and I had thrown up when I was in labor with Forest, closer to the end of him coming out, and so I had originally thought that it was because of the epidural and the medicine, but I was like, I don't have any medicine in me, and these are pretty strong.

I looked at Matt and I was like, I'm a little concerned. The vomit was a red flag for me. Not red flag, but a flag for me. I was like, yeah, I think we probably need to get out of the bath. so I'm trying to get out of the bath now. And that's when the contractions really came on strong and I was like, crap. And.

Rachael Hutchins (57:10.809)
Like a go, a go symbol.

Dr. Shannon (57:12.16)
Hehehehehe

Heather Fasano (57:29.518)
I was like, I need you to get me my sweatpants. We had our go bags already, all that stuff. I was like, we gotta get in the car. I need you to call Hannah back. We need to call Carson. We're getting there. So I'm humbled over the stairs, trying to breathe through these contractions. And my mom and Matt are like, do you want a wet washcloth? I was like, we need to go.

Dr. Shannon (57:34.341)
You

Heather Fasano (57:57.014)
I don't need anything except for you to get the car ready so we can go. So we get in the car, I'm like squeezing the handle, and I'll pause here because I think my internet's getting weird. Am I good? Is my internet still good? So I'm in the car and I'm like squeezing the handle and I'm trying to do all the breathing techniques. Matt's trying to call Hannah. Hannah's like, okay, I'm on my way.

Rachael Hutchins (58:13.389)
good. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (58:13.642)
Yes, you're good. Yeah.

Heather Fasano (58:26.434)
got to get the car, you know, and we were, because I picked a provider that I really wanted, and I also picked a hospital because I wanted to do a water birth, it was a little bit of a drive. It was like a 45 minute drive on like a good day. And then we called Carson, my midwife, and she's like, well, do you want to, I typically check, you know, my patients at the office, and then if you're ready, then I'll send you over to the hospital. And I was like, I don't think we're going to the office, like.

you need to be there and she's like, okay. And I remember like the contractions would like take my breath away. Like I was trying to breathe in, but it was like painful. Like I couldn't, it was almost like I couldn't breathe. And that was something I didn't experience with Forest. And I was like, you need to drive Matt, like let's go. And so we got there. We got, this was like four o'clock in the morning. So 1.30 to four, it was very fast.

we got there to the hospital at four o'clock in the morning. I stepped out of the car, took like five steps towards the door and my water broke in the parking lot. And I remember looking at Matt and I was like, holy cow. Cause again, I didn't have that with Forest and I was like, this is like, I'm fixing to have this baby in the parking lot was what it was feeling like. And I looked at him and I was like, I feel like I need to push. and he's like, God.

Dr. Shannon (59:35.566)
you

Dr. Shannon (59:55.662)
You

Heather Fasano (59:55.894)
So we try to open the door. It's locked because it's after hours. So I'm having to buzz in to the hospital. Like, can you please let me in? I'm fixing to have this baby in a parking lot. We get in. I shuffle into the desk. And they're like, what are you here for? And I was like, I don't know. My pants are wet. I can't breathe. I have a big belly. So anyways, we're like, OK, labor and deliveries just down this hallway through the double doors. And I'm like, no wheelchair?

Dr. Shannon (01:00:15.36)
You're like, I'm gonna lose it.

Heather Fasano (01:00:25.39)
And Matt's like, are you kidding me? So we hobble, wet pants and all, all the way down the hallway, having contractions. And then we get into the labor and delivery desk and they look at me like I'm like crazy person. And I was like, hi, Heather, I'm here to have this baby. And they're like, your room's around this corner. No sense of urgency again.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:47.567)
Okay.

Heather Fasano (01:00:53.132)
and I look at them and I'm like, I need to push. And they're like, no. And I'm like, no, I need to push. And so they get me in the room. Of course they're like, okay, let's get your gown on. I'm like, okay, Matt, you're have to help me here. We'll get you up on the bed. And they start asking me the questions. I'm like, did you last eat? Just like the general vital things. And I'm like.

I need to be on this table and I kept telling them like I need to push, need to push, I need to push. And they again were no sense of urgency. And finally someone checks me and they're like, okay, well you're like fully dilated. So you're, yeah, you may need to push. And I was like, what?

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:35.375)
You're like, I've been telling you this.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:36.692)
You're like, I didn't need your validation.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:39.359)
It's crazy to me that in that situation how you're looking and how you're talking isn't confirmation enough. Why do we have to put our hands up there and confirm it? Which fine sometimes that's necessary but like it's so clear. It's so evident.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:50.2)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (01:01:52.375)
Like, I'm like, hey guys. And then the kicker was, you know, one of the nurses is in there and she's like, well when was the last time you had your flu shot?

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:55.407)
you

Dr. Shannon (01:02:04.595)
I'm gonna get this baby out of me.

Heather Fasano (01:02:07.122)
And I was like, I don't know. why? Have you had your COVID? Like, she was going through her list and I'm like, honey, we gotta skip to Z because this ain't happening right now. And I was like, okay, well, we need to get your IV started. And I was like, you can try because I'm like, this is not happening. Meanwhile, Hannah's still on her way.

Dr. Shannon (01:02:18.496)
You

Heather Fasano (01:02:32.14)
My midwife, Matt calls her again and is like, you need to get here now. Carson's like, I'm running every red light. I told them to prop the door open for me. I will be there as soon as I can. I had my birth tub. There was no time to fill that. Matt's like, are we gonna do the tub? And I was like, no, no, no. And so she couldn't get the IV started, unsurprisingly. And I was like, you're just gonna have to stop because I need to push.

And finally one of the nurses, she was, guess, maybe more seen and looked at me she goes, is this your first baby? I said, no. She goes, and you feel like you need to push? I said, yes. She goes, okay. She's like, she's having this baby. And I looked at her and I was like, I'm not pushing on my back again. I was like, no, not doing it. And I said, would like the squat bar again. And she goes, okay, well, unfortunately we can't get the squat bar out until your provider's here. And I was like, well, we're have to figure something out.

because I'm not pushing on my back. And she was like, you can try to flip over and do it on your hands and knees. I said, great, let's give that a try. Hannah's not there, Carson's not there, Matt's like, holy shit, we're just, we're doing it. I flip over, immediately a contraction comes on and I'm like, okay, his baby's coming out. I push like two times. Liam is his name, is.

Dr. Shannon (01:03:30.71)
No.

Heather Fasano (01:03:57.236)
emerging into this bright, beautiful world. And Carson walks in like full on, you know, I'm flipped over and she's like, we're having a baby. And I just remember hearing her because I couldn't see anything because I'm facing the wall, pulling onto the bed. And I was like, thank God she made it. And she's like trying to gown up and get her gloves on. And she's like, you're doing great. One more big push. And Liam came out and it was he was born by like 5 a.m. So

1 30 to 5 a.m. Hannah didn't make it till after Liam had arrived. But we were still doing like skin to skin. I hadn't birthed placenta yet because Carson was very, you know, supportive of the natural birth of the placenta. And, you know, just taking that time and being calm and doing lots of skin to skin and.

you know, I flipped over and was holding him and, and I'll never forget that nurse came back in and she's like, okay, so can we do your questions now? And Carson looks at her and goes, we can, that can wait. Let's give her, let's give her a moment. Like she was trying to be so sweet to the nurse, but she was like, get away. Like, please like give this, give this girl, you know, some slack here.

Dr. Shannon (01:05:17.358)
you

Heather Fasano (01:05:23.69)
And so we talked through, you know, what had just happened and she was like, I was really proud of your pushing. You were very controlled, which was really nice to hear. It was just really reassuring. And then Hannah came in and we, was able to sit down, not sit down, but I was able to go through the whole process with her and like talk it out, which was really helpful because it happened so fast. And then like,

I birthed the placenta and we did the tour of the placenta, which I had never had it, you know, didn't have that done either. So I learned more about it. And then, you know, she helped me start like with work on like breastfeeding, which is a whole nother challenge in and of itself, which I feel like is overlooked. And, and yeah, so literally complete opposite. And I feel like it was so different.

because, and you guys have talked about it before, but when your body feels comfortable and empowered and like it has the resources and the capability to do something, like that progresses labor. And at no point was I like, I can't do this or I have a question or I always felt.

supported. knew I had my doulas. I knew I had an awesome midwife. I knew I was going to the hospital that I wanted. I knew that I had done everything up to that point that was, that would prepare me. I knew I had, was armed with the knowledge of if I did have to have an intervention, X, Y, Z, this is what it meant. These were the questions to ask. Like I think that that alone made my birth so quick because it was just like, okay.

I can do this, my body knows what it's doing, I feel comfortable, I have my resources. Yes, this is wild and crazy, but I think that that was a big contributor versus my first where there was a lot of like apprehension and uncertainty and all of that. I think that played a role in my body being okay with delivering. So totally different.

Rachael Hutchins (01:07:39.339)
What a story girlfriend. I love it. I love it every time I hear it. Yeah. And I think everything you just said like at the end is right on like, well, your intentionality around choosing your birth team, like from, from therapy to Dr. Shannon to your doulas, to your provider, like that is like truly like an all star team. And like it gave you that openness. There was, there was minimal, any, like emotional holdup.

that would have slowed or solved your labor because you had worked through your stuff and set yourself up for success. So you really like there is so much emotional and physical tension that comes when we don't feel safe or confident or, you know, supported. And I think the things you did helped like clear that pathway so that the body can do what it's intended to do. So kudos.

Dr. Shannon (01:08:36.81)
No, I think and I think one thing too with it is that all the things that you did, it made your body feel safe. And so, you know, from all the all that design there was to bring like that peace and calm and help you help your nervous system navigate birth and be on board for birth. so because there's that it sounds a bit of a difference of like, you know, the first one experience happened to you.

and then this one is happening with you and for you. And I think that's one of my favorite parts of birth support teams is how that impacts collectively, like vagus nerve and nervous system and how it's just promoting those feelings of safety, which...

comes in part with like you had more knowledge, you know, and then you had the support and then you chose a certain location for birth and the provider, you know, so all of that adds to, you know, that safety feeling. So, I'm always so proud of you when I hear the story though. It's fun. It's fun.

Heather Fasano (01:09:44.238)
But it's like, it's so crazy and like, I mean, we probably, to be honest, I probably don't have time to go into like postpartum number two. We'll have to do, yeah, okay. Because we, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:09:53.56)
Well, I was gonna say, I wanna do a second, we're gonna have to do a follow up and we're gonna do some postpartum, because then I wanna go into the two different kiddos, you know, and everything that was so different. You have so much that needs to be shared. So don't worry about fitting it in here. We'll just, I'm gonna have you on again. I already thought about it.

Heather Fasano (01:10:04.47)
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Because like, I feel like, like, honestly, like Liam and his journey also is like his own like Pete's case and story. But yeah, but back to just the total difference of, I mean, we were in, we were only in Mother Baby for like a day and a half versus like a week with Forrest and Granite.

Dr. Shannon (01:10:13.342)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:10:31.444)
know, force had jaundice and we were blessed that Liam didn't go through those struggles, but I was also really prepared this time around with tools for breastfeeding, because I knew that that was going to be a challenge for me, because it was the first time around. So I knew more in that scenario in mother-baby to where I felt like I could prepare Liam and give him the best start too, to where we wouldn't maybe run into those issues.

Dr. Shannon (01:10:57.806)
remember did you meet with Bree for lactation help prenatally was that someone else I couldn't remember if you did or not no okay okay

Heather Fasano (01:11:07.317)
No, no, that was a journey too because I knew I wanted to meet with a lactation consultant. And so I actually met with one group of providers after Liam was born. And it was another one of those like, you've got to make a choice. Like if your gut says this is not the person you want to work with, you don't have to go with them. And that was the situation with that group of providers where I met them.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:24.366)
Hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:28.803)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:11:34.862)
They looked at Liam, they didn't even do an assessment on him. And then we went straight to like pumping and supplementing with formula. And I was like, that's not what I'm looking for in a lactation consultant. And so that's when I went back to you both and I was like, I need another person. Like you guys were wealth of resources, like every, Dr. Shannon, every person on my birth team is a result of you.

Dr. Shannon (01:11:48.696)
But you used your skills of questioning. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:01.838)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:01.954)
you

Heather Fasano (01:12:02.094)
which I just, think is a true testament to like your connections in this, this, you yeah. I mean, like you were like, yeah, you're like a matchmaker. You're like a pregnancy birth matchmaker.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:07.918)
It's one of my most favorite things to do.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:10.753)
It is, it's a, it's a gift. It's a gift.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:13.848)
it.

am. I love it.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:18.051)
Do you know she matched me and Hannah?

Heather Fasano (01:12:23.05)
what did she do?

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:23.584)
we froze, but she matched me and Hannah.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:24.176)
there you go.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:28.622)
Mm-hmm. I just love it. I love it.

Heather Fasano (01:12:28.93)
Say, say, you are, you are.

Rachael Hutchins (01:12:29.689)
See, I always say she's a matchmaker. She does. She's an intentional, like she has a gift of like knowing what people need and being able to like her connections are so meaningful. Cause I feel like if you know her, like it's, it's meaningful. And so she's able to give those referrals in a way that people trust her as you know.

Dr. Shannon (01:12:47.115)
the thing because you'll go to you know you go to the pediatrician you go to the OB office and they just have this piece of paper and it's got maybe all of these things on here and they're kind of like pick one you know like I'm saying you need to go to the dermatologist pick one do you know how many people are like they ask me these things because you know how does this person make you feel what do they specialize in what's their history what does they know and what is their key thing do you need v-back support or what do you need it's so

then you can interview the people because you're gonna, what do you feel aligned with? I don't know. I love it.

Rachael Hutchins (01:13:21.857)
That has to be like usually we'll give like a couple or a few and we're call them up because like look at their location if there's an insurance thing involved I figure out like well lactation or always like if insurance is important to you You might have to go this route if if you really want someone to come to your home you go this route and like trying to decipher Kind of help narrow it down but also like, you know There might be a few things for you to consider but here are a couple resources for you to go check out because like not everyone that's what was like providers like we'll give

a few referrals, we're like, have conversations with them because like what we think feels good, doesn't maybe not feel good to you. So like you got to kind of suss it out. And again, that exercise helps you build that confidence and decision-making as you go through, you know, choosing care providers like pediatricians or your well-care or, know, it just, it's a skill that will last beyond the birth. so I've always said like Shannon's so good at like helping instill that in folks of like,

Dr. Shannon (01:13:53.848)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:14:11.982)
Totally.

Rachael Hutchins (01:14:19.629)
like learning that skill of meaningful like referrals and sussing out the right people and like, you know, being that advocate in the journey. So.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:29.006)
It's fun. I love it. But you did say, I just love your birth story. love, I'm thankful to have been a part of it. It's so exciting. I just, it's so fun.

Rachael Hutchins (01:14:36.601)
Ditto, ditto. And I think Hannah still feels like she's still like, that's the one I didn't, I never want to miss a birth, but like didn't really want to miss that one. The one that got away like, man. It's, we've all been there though as a doula. is so I've walked in like, like I thought I had made it and then like I hear the cry. I'm coming in the door and I'm like.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:44.918)
Yeah. Yeah! Yeah. I love it.

Heather Fasano (01:14:45.626)
and it got away.

Dr. Shannon (01:14:58.708)
And you're like, you're like, nah, I missed it.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:02.935)
It's like, but glad, usually in those instances, things went well. Yeah. It's not cause I'm like eight hours late.

Dr. Shannon (01:15:08.758)
Yeah, I was gonna say usually in that like, you know, yeah, exactly. Like you were, yeah. They were supported, right? Yeah. They knew you were there in spirit. Liam's in there checking things off. He's like, got it.

Heather Fasano (01:15:08.899)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (01:15:13.134)
Thanks.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:15.447)
It's usually because things were going quickly and that's usually a good thing for most people of like, yeah, baby's here. We didn't really have time to...

Heather Fasano (01:15:23.51)
It means that you prepared us so well that like we didn't even need you there. Like, you know.

Rachael Hutchins (01:15:27.435)
Right, that's when you know you've done good.

Yeah, he might feel a little bit, you know, bummed he didn't get to enjoy the process or use, you know, because I'm sure that was a lot as he's like trying to call Carson, trying to like answer questions. I'm sure that's like, that's not an ideal. That is not the like, kumbaya experience we talk about.

Heather Fasano (01:15:31.99)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (01:15:37.549)
day.

Heather Fasano (01:15:49.207)
He said at one point when he was looking at me and looking at the nurses and realized Hannah and North Carson was going to be there in time. he didn't look at me and be like, they're not going to make it. But in his head, he was like, they're not going to make it. And he said he stepped out of the room briefly. And he said that when he was on the phone with Carson, he was like, you need to get here now.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:15.214)
I

Heather Fasano (01:16:17.034)
all calm had like gone out the door and and he remembered me. Yeah. And he said he remembered me when I was pushing because like, you there's like, you showed on TV with like the women screaming, right? And it's not even like a scream. It's like a roar that comes out. And like, it was that was how I pushed. was like a breathe out like a, you know, like you you teach range like

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:20.623)
Understandably.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:35.392)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:35.533)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:16:44.172)
you relax the jaw, you just let it come out. And so I was just roaring into the bed like this. he was like, I mean, what did he call me? He called me angry, I think, the first time around, whatever, when I was asking for the Scott board. And he was just like, wow. Like, cow. So.

Rachael Hutchins (01:16:47.769)
Gutter all.

Dr. Shannon (01:16:48.733)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:17:06.476)
Awe inspired.

Rachael Hutchins (01:17:10.637)
Well, and it's cool for them to get to see that too, because the first time you have the epidural, so it is a different pushing experience. So like, I think when a partner gets to witness that, like that power, they hear it, they can feel it when they touch you and that you're then bringing forth your baby. I do think it is an awe inspiring moment for them to be like, hold like to forever be like, she's a bad a.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:24.462)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:17:25.678)
Yeah.

Heather Fasano (01:17:35.596)
Yeah. and I felt like one after that, I was like, yeah, I didn't tear. mean, like, I was like, I did that. Like, yeah, I did that. yeah. So it was really cool for sure. Yeah. So night and day difference between the two. And again, I think it's all, it has to do with the support team that I had around me, the steps that

Dr. Shannon (01:17:35.799)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:41.57)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:17:47.903)
awesome. And then you should feel proud and that stays that stays with you. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:17:53.349)
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

Heather Fasano (01:18:05.71)
I had taken the therapy, the being more informed, and I'm really grateful, honestly, now that I got pregnant when I did because...

it granted I would have liked them spaced out a little bit more, but I don't know that I would have ever thought I was fully ready to do it again. After the experience with Forrest because there was just so much to go through. And I think the way it worked out was for a reason. And it was because it was it was like meant to be. I think like, you know, whatever you believe in God, higher power.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:28.803)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:18:29.494)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Fasano (01:18:47.758)
knew that I had the right people in play and I was taking the right steps that it would be okay, know, for it to happen again. So, you know.

Rachael Hutchins (01:18:53.653)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm That's beautiful I'm so proud of you and just so lucky to know you and just you know, thank you so much for Sharing I always enjoy like the way you articulate and like tell your story too is also really awesome Like you bring humor and you bring like emotion into it. I just I love it so much So thank you so much for sharing. know people are gonna absolutely love it

Dr. Shannon (01:18:59.038)
Mm-hmm. I know.

Heather Fasano (01:19:14.414)
Aww.

Heather Fasano (01:19:23.148)
So.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:23.725)
and just appreciate you so much. And hopefully you and Shannon can connect for part two.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:27.904)
Yeah, we're gonna have to because I know you had the two different postpartums and then both kiddos and stuff like that. So there's a lot. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So we'll do that.

Heather Fasano (01:19:28.27)
for sure. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:19:29.571)
Make that happen.

There's so much to learn there too. And your wealth of knowledge, both of your wealth of knowledge for that, for that. And I think it maybe even works out for it to be separate because then they get their own, their own place. Yeah. So if you're willing to do that, we'd love it.

Heather Fasano (01:19:35.098)
my god.

so much.

Heather Fasano (01:19:44.152)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you, ladies. And I'm glad we finally made time and got on everybody's schedule. This will just be the Boy Moms Club. And yeah, it's, we'll just keep rolling. But I really appreciate you guys having me on. And thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you guys have done for me.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:44.174)
They get their own space, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:49.62)
Yes. I know.

Dr. Shannon (01:19:56.835)
Yep.

Heather Fasano (01:20:08.398)
and for my sweet little family and I'm so grateful that we continue to be connected in some form or fashion. You guys are so much more than like providers. You are friends and confidants and all the things. So thank you. And I hope anyone who listens knows how awesome you two are and yeah, I hope it helps somebody.

Dr. Shannon (01:20:35.103)
I know it will. Again, yes, we appreciate you so much, your kind words. And thank you for sharing your story in an impactful and meaningful way to say what happened to you, to show your feelings and to come from an open space. There's no judgment. know, do you, does someone have a similar story? What can we learn from your story and their story? So thank you again so much for sharing today.

Heather Fasano (01:20:58.432)
Awesome. All right, ladies. Well, happy day.