Ep 166: How to Labor at Home as Long as Possible

Rebroadcast of ep 124:
As you near the end of your pregnancy, and if you’re planning to birth at a hospital, then you might be wondering “when during my labor, do I need to go to the hospital?”  In this episode, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael chat about the benefits of laboring at home as long as possible as it pertains to potentially avoiding interventions and using the comfort of your own home to move through early labor.

They discuss:

The stages of labor and an overview of early labor 

Ways to rest during early labor

What the shift into active labor is like 

Early labor coping mechanisms 

Doula and chiropractic support during early labor

Contraction guidelines for when to go to the hospital

Resources mentioned:

Episode 61: Finding your breath - 5 breathing exercises for pregnancy and postpartum

Episode 54: Navigating the final weeks of pregnancy

Episode 24: Comfort during labor 

A New Testament Gospera (A Sister Act Story), Act 1 - The Podcast Musical
It's Jesus Christ Superstar meets Sister Act! Inspired bt4 gospels of the New Testament!

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Chapters

• 12:46 [Ad] A New Testament Gospera (A Sister Act Story), Act 1 - The Podcast Musical
• 13:36 (Cont.) Ep 166: How to Labor at Home as Long as Possible

Transcript

Dr. Shannon (00:01.947)
Hey, hey, this is the Aligned Birth Podcast. You've got both hosts here today. Hi, I'm Dr. Shannon, Dula Rachel is here. And we are chatting about laboring at home as long as possible. This comes up, I think this is one of the things that comes up a lot in the office when we're navigating those final weeks of pregnancy and we're starting to make sure.

we've got things lined up, bags are packed if you're going to the hospital, like those type of things. And it can come up as far as, okay, when do I go to the hospital? And so why are we talking about this today? Because laboring at home as long as possible can really set yourself up for success when you do get to the hospital. There's a big difference.

between arriving at about like two centimeters dilation versus maybe six centimeters dilation. There's a big difference. And so we're going to give overview of early labor and then signs of when you're shifting into active labor because sometimes I think it's that whole, well, I don't know if I'm shifting into active labor. What does it feel like? How can I rest during active labor at home? And again, we want to share the benefits.

of laboring at home and then those ways to achieve it. So yay. Hi, Rachel. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:30.798)
Hi, Dr. Shannon. So good to see your face this morning. Thank you for that awesome intro. Very excited for this conversation, as I always am. I think the reason I like this conversation, this topic, is because it's one we have with almost every single one of our birth doula clients. It is also a topic that I teach in childbirth education and in our home birth prep class. Not even, I guess, home birth prep,

how to navigate early labor. And that's really the meat of this conversation. Because I put in parentheses on our little outline, like I think labor at home as long as possible is a desire that a lot of birthing people have, but it is easier said than done. I feel like people are like, yes, I'm going to labor at home as long as I can. And then when they get into it, they're not prepared.

Dr. Shannon (02:03.12)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (02:21.981)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (02:27.803)
It's harder than you think. Yeah, like it's a little bit harder than you think. Yeah, no, that's exactly it. It's kind of like, oh yeah, I'll just stay at home as long as possible. And it's almost like a little thing on a checklist. Yeah, like, okay, I'm gonna stay at home as long as possible. I've got the hospital bag packed. But there's so much that goes into that. There's a lot, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (02:29.912)
It is harder than you think.

Rachael Hutchins (02:35.147)
Makes sense.

Rachael Hutchins (02:44.666)
Yeah, and people have a desire of getting to the hospital well into labor, meaning like active labor. Maybe they have a centimeter in mind of like five, six, seven, some people eight centimeters. Like everyone kind of has a vision and we encourage that. Like where do you see yourself out when you want to go to the hospital? And it's like, okay, well how do we get from labor starting to that point? And that's where there's, that's what we're going to kind of share today.

Dr. Shannon (02:58.147)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (03:02.158)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (03:11.311)
And sometimes that beginning that when labor starts is it can be a long ish process because I remember like sleeping and I remember contractions coming somewhat regular but then it's like it was all night long. So then if it does start to pick up, you're like, okay, do I need to go now? So that's kind of what we want to touch on. And I'm just thinking of my own personal experiences with my two very different births. And I think one of.

I had a patient in the office yesterday, we'll mention her. I guess she may mention in all the sessions we're recording today because I told her what we were going to talk about. She was like, oh, well, add this to it. Then she asked, what do you think led to your emergency cesarean? What do you think got it to that point? One of the first things that always comes to mind or I think of is that...

I didn't labor at home long enough. Now, I'm not trying to say that if you don't labor at home long enough, you're gonna end up with the cascading events. That's totally not it. That's not it at all. But I know that for me, that was one factor.

Rachael Hutchins (04:09.225)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (04:17.154)
you felt like you fell into a set of cascade cascading interventions due to being at the hospital earlier than you either wanted or hindsight see as optimal.

Dr. Shannon (04:22.361)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (04:30.991)
Yeah, it wasn't as emergent. We didn't need to go as quickly as I thought we needed to go. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (04:36.722)
yeah and that's very real and that's like we when I say we like Hannah and I talk with our doula clients our birth doula clients so often about this very topic and then when they get into labor it is like a different story so it's okay like if you're like yes this makes sense logically but when you're in it please give grace and space for how you're going to feel but of course we

Dr. Shannon (04:48.013)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (04:55.454)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (05:06.582)
preparedness, some education, a good support team, a good true understanding of what this process looks like and the benefits and you really got to root in the benefits to how that can help you, you know, that's your best chance at achieving that goal. And then also knowing that if things arise where you're like, I don't feel safe at home anymore, I'm more anxious than I thought, I'm in more pain than I thought.

Dr. Shannon (05:29.522)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (05:33.438)
whatever and all the tools you've tried to use aren't working like it's okay like go like we even encourage Going go to your care provider go to the birth location You can get checked you can check on the baby because sometimes we'll just want that reassurance that everything is fine and like if you're two centimeters for example, because that's part of Being admitted usually is getting a cervical exam kind of see where you're at check on the baby What's happening with contractions kind of assess everything?

Dr. Shannon (05:48.351)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (06:02.974)
And if you're like anything before four centimeters, a lot of times it's encouraged to go home, to return home. And again, if you have another like a set of circumstances that necessitate you being there, prolonged rump shirt of membranes, you are GBS positive and you've opted in for antibiotics, high risk pregnancy. Like, okay, so we understand that there's like a set of people that it is better for them to go ahead and be there, but if none of those apply

Dr. Shannon (06:10.772)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (06:32.79)
discuss the pros and cons with your care provider, go home. Hannah talks all the time about, she went three times.

Dr. Shannon (06:39.363)
I remember that in her story. Yeah, I remember that in her story. I love it.

Rachael Hutchins (06:42.726)
my birth-doodle partner for her first biological child went three times before and then by the time she got there for the third it was like she got there and pushed her baby out. It was great. But it was worth and she was driving 45 minutes both ways. You know it's a lot of effort to kind of get the gumption to pack up the car, go and not sure am I gonna stay, am I gonna go, and you've never done it before. So it's really hard to then pivot.

Dr. Shannon (06:53.623)
Yeah, she just needed, yeah, some of that reassurance, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (07:03.772)
Uh huh.

Dr. Shannon (07:07.623)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (07:11.934)
and go home. But there's so much benefit to it.

Dr. Shannon (07:13.967)
Yeah, because then it's that lead up that build up in your mind of, oh, this is it. You know, and in my instance too, is I was passed well past my estimated due date. And so I think I was encouraged to stay. But I remember I got there at two centimeters and I was like, well, this sucks.

Rachael Hutchins (07:17.248)
Oh yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (07:35.714)
Well, and that's where conversation with your care provider, it has to come in. Cause again, you had a set of circumstances and then your provider is like, well, we don't really fully support you going home. That doesn't mean you have to stay, but that does mean you can say, okay, tell me more, what are the risks, what are the benefits if I do? Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (07:39.339)
Exactly.

Dr. Shannon (07:47.539)
That doesn't mean I have to stay. And that's why I said encouraged because I was like, I didn't know if they weren't like, oh, you have to stay. But at that point in time, I didn't have that knowledge that support pays to be like, oh, wait, can I ask these? Do I have to? What happens if I do? What happens if I don't? I didn't have that brain acronym to go through that we talk about a lot. But that's why we're having this podcast. That's why we're having this conversation.

Rachael Hutchins (07:58.922)
Oh, yeah. That you can have that conversation. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (08:09.627)
Yeah, and that's helpful in that instance.

Yeah. And then to help you so like that we can help people navigate it again, like everything we say, navigate a little bit more ease, a little bit more confidence, a little bit more awareness about your options and how to, how to do it. And all I can say is, is lean into the process, learn about what's normal. Listen here for some tips, take what resonates and communicate with your, your birth team. If you have a doula birth and your care provider, like talk this out, your partner, who's going to be like there,

Dr. Shannon (08:17.16)
Hahaha

Dr. Shannon (08:24.15)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (08:45.186)
husband, your boyfriend, your whomever is going to be like your main support person. Like you got to talk this through with them too because that's another thing that we have to address is the other person along this with you if you've chosen someone they've got to be supportive too. Like they can't be bringing the stress in while you're trying to labor at home peacefully. They can't be like, oh it's time to go, it's time to go. They got to know what's normal too. So looping in your people.

Dr. Shannon (09:03.06)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (09:07.708)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (09:14.831)
Exactly. Yeah. So again, we're talking about laboring at home as long as possible. And we've kind of touched on all the little things, well, a little bit in the, our extended intro of this episode of like why we're talking about it. But let's start with, we have our little outline here, our, the overview of early labor. And honestly, with this conversation,

Rachael Hutchins (09:14.834)
I think we touch on that. I think I have it on my list.

Dr. Shannon (09:39.871)
I was really excited about, so when Rachel and I were chatting and messaging the other day about like, what are we going to talk about on Friday? Because we record conversations in batch, so we've got a couple of other ones that we're going to do today. I had mentioned the laboring at home as long as possible, and when I mentioned it, it was kind of like, I mean, I have my own experience and then I have experience for the moms in the office to offer. But as a prenatal chiropractor, I feel like...

I'm limited in this. Like I can say do these things, but I feel like I wanna learn more from you in this aspect of like the, what is the doula say? What does the childbirth education classes say? Like what else can we add to it? So I'm excited to learn even more about it. So with all of that being said, let's get an overview of early labor.

Rachael Hutchins (10:18.19)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (10:26.546)
Yeah. So early labor, this is when like you are, you've received some positive signals that you're in labor, right? So maybe your water has broken. It's positive sign labor is, has been initiated, whether you're having contractions or not, or you're beginning to have cramping sensations, menstrual like sensations, like lower abdomen, like kind of like maybe it feels like an upset

can be described a lot of different ways, but you kind of start having these sensations and they're coming in a wave-like pattern and they're not stopping. In early labor, they're not necessarily getting longer, stronger, closer together just yet, which that's something we look for as labor's progressing and we're really establishing labor-like patterns. Early labor is, so,

Dr. Shannon (11:12.095)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (11:20.124)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (11:25.294)
Quick overview, birth is broken down into three stages of labor. There's the first stage, which is everything from the start of labor to 10 centimeters are being complete, like getting ready to push. The second stage is pushing. The third stage is delivering your placenta. The first stage, which is everything, it's the bulk of labor, zero to 10 centimeters is also broken down into three parts.

There's early labor, which is primarily what we're talking about today, which is everything like zero to six centimeters. And again, we're using dilation as a general measurement, but it's also a lot about how you're feeling, how contractions are coming. You don't have to be checked to know where you're at. And there's no delineation of like, you're at this part for this long and this part for this long. A lot of it's very fluid. There's a lot of gray areas. So it's not linear always, but we kind of got to be able to talk about it. So it's broken down.

Dr. Shannon (12:01.087)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (12:19.394)
black and white terms, but labor's not black and white at all. No. So early labor zero to six centimeters and then active labor is six to eight centimeters and then transition eight to 10 centimeters. So that's kind of the last most intense part usually the shortest though before pushing but early labor is.

Dr. Shannon (12:22.095)
Yeah, no, it doesn't follow a strict schedule.

Dr. Shannon (12:36.379)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (12:40.829)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (12:46.358)
the longest, typically most unpredictable part of labor. And again, you can talk about labor in a lot of different ways and it looks different for everybody. You could have a precipitous labor, which is no labor to baby in less than three hours. So you may not have this long, unpredictable pattern. We always talk about it as if it's going to be a very long event so that you're prepared for long. And then if it's shorter, that's a little bit easier to navigate than

Dr. Shannon (13:02.015)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (13:09.705)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (13:13.671)
Right.

than those resources that you need for if it ends up longer and you weren't expecting it.

Rachael Hutchins (13:17.01)
if it's if you think it's going to be yeah so we're going to prepare for kind of a long earlier but if things ramp up faster for you if you go through this phase faster awesome but longest most unpredictable meaning it could be like 24 hours sometimes longer of early labor so when you hear people talk about these epic 40 50 hour labors they weren't in transition for 40 hours they weren't at the most intense part

Dr. Shannon (13:31.757)
Mm... Mm-hmm?

Dr. Shannon (13:41.699)
Right, you're not suffering yet. Yeah, that intensity.

Rachael Hutchins (13:44.994)
That doesn't mean it's not, it's very hard to have a long labor, but a lot, a big chunk of that was most likely early labor, which is your body finding its rhythm, warming up, producing those hormones, building up oxytocin, building up endorphins. It's a process, right? And it looks different for everybody. But if you're prepared, like, okay, early labor could be like 24 hours. And I don't really need to be at the hospital in time and active labor. Okay. How are we going to be at home for?

Dr. Shannon (14:00.927)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (14:13.119)
How do we navigate that time? Because it could be a significant amount of time. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (14:14.178)
How do we get through that, right? Yeah, and the contractions to encourage you for the most part, for most people, are manageable. Are they easy? No, is this hard work? Yes. Is it manageable? Yes. Do you get breaks? Yes, right? If we were in one big contraction for the entirety of labor, right, it wouldn't be, no one would reproduce. But...

Dr. Shannon (14:24.883)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (14:31.851)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (14:41.572)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (14:42.914)
There's a design there of the wave-like pattern. So you have contractions and they build like a wave. You can visualize it and then they wash away. And we do this over and over again. So we like to say birth is one third intensity, two thirds relaxation. Huh, I get more breaks. I get more break time and labor than I get.

Dr. Shannon (14:44.436)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (14:52.547)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (15:01.546)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Right. If you look at a graph, you're going to see more of that rest time. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (15:10.65)
Right and of a contraction in early labor that's maybe the contraction itself might be 30-45 seconds and even of that contraction the peak is maybe 10 or 15 seconds. So we when you can kind of visualize and be really receptive of like okay I'm getting these breaks I'm going to take the break I'm going to use the break for relaxation I'm not going to think too much about what's to come I'm not going to do labor math I'm not going to try to anticipate.

Dr. Shannon (15:23.764)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (15:38.143)
No. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (15:39.862)
I'm going to just be like, full surrender for early labor because we don't know how long it's going to be. So if you can fully surrender and do the things we're going to talk about here.

Dr. Shannon (15:46.687)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (15:52.254)
It's going to be a little bit easier to navigate. So the contractions are manageable. You're getting breaks. This is the time of labor. You're going to feel more like yourself. You're going to feel more social, more energized to do stuff.

Dr. Shannon (16:03.243)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're gonna have those conversations because I often hear and you guys will talk about too how you'll talk with clients on the phone and if you're having these normal conversations and they're like, oh do I need to go? It's kind of like nope. I can hear your voice. I can hear your tone and then when they call back later and they're like, oh you know, it's like Yes, it's shifted. So yeah, that's what I think of Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins (16:16.867)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (16:21.63)
or when the husband calls back. Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's, we try and paint that picture of like, okay, if you're still having conversations, if you're still up for talking on the phone with your friend or your doula, you're still sort of be bopping around. Even if the contraction is taking your attention, like just welcome that, be like, oh, yep, I feel that. Take a deep breath, try to release the tension where you can and then carry on. And there's like, ignore it until you can't.

Dr. Shannon (16:39.303)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (16:50.883)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (16:51.126)
We say that a lot, like ignore it until it's demanding your attention. And when it's demanding your attention, that's a good indicator that, okay, we've now like kind of gone into the next little part of even early labor, right? We're not even getting to active labor yet, but there's like, like a shift around like four ish centimeters where things intensify and a lot of people think that that's sort of like.

Dr. Shannon (16:54.991)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (17:05.138)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (17:15.806)
a good time to go to the hospital. They're feeling that shift and it's like still just a little bit early. So there's some other things we can look for, but it's typically how they're coping during and between contractions. Like I've meant now between contractions, we're not talking, we're focused inward, we're keeping our eyes closed. Things around us are either bothering us or we're not noticing them. Okay, now we're, we're like, we're kind of progressing and those, the contractions begin to get a little bit more intense.

Dr. Shannon (17:26.66)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (17:33.525)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (17:44.838)
little bit longer and then doing that for a while and then not stopping. Now you know you're like okay we are we are in labor and that's an excited thing. It's normal to feel super excited when oh my gosh you're going to feel excited the first time you have that first contraction or your water breaks like you're going to feel excited and that's where we have to like identify but then we have to counter it because I think when we have these conversations it's logical about like

Dr. Shannon (17:51.056)
we're going.

Dr. Shannon (18:06.967)
it yes uh

Rachael Hutchins (18:13.526)
This is how it goes. This is how you're gonna feel. This is what you can do. It's logical. You're like, yes, I get it. But then when you're in it, it's, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (18:18.803)
When you're in it, I think that's what we're trying to touch on today. Because I remember with my second, I remember being at the holiday office party because it was around Christmas time. I was talking to my supervisor. We just eaten at Maggiano's. Parmesan Eggplant or Eggplant Parmesan was on the menu and I was like, getting it. Because you always hear about that with getting labor started because it was like my due week or whatever, near my estimated due. I was like, I'm getting that.

Rachael Hutchins (18:46.186)
Yeah, why not?

Dr. Shannon (18:48.879)
I remember sitting there and I had these intense contractions. I'm trying to have this conversation with my supervisor. So he's still talking. I remember I just grab onto the side of the table and I squeeze it and then it goes away. And so then I continue to talk and everything's fine and it comes back and it's kind of rhythmic. You know, they're far apart, but it was so I just I look back on that. I'm like, that was so fun. Like when I look back on it now, I'm like, that was so cool that I'm like literally about to give birth and I'm over here managing the supervisor trying to have these conversations.

Rachael Hutchins (19:10.89)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (19:17.779)
But then I think back onto it's always easier when it's your second time around. So again, if it's that first time, you just don't know. So you've got to be okay with the like, I've got to go with the flow. I know I'm not going to know exactly what this is. Yes, you probably had Braxton Hicks and false labor and contractions. But I remember thinking back on when we went to the hospital with my first and I was like, I don't remember those contractions being anywhere near where I was at the holiday party. And so

Rachael Hutchins (19:25.436)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (19:46.963)
That was a big difference. You know, like I remember they, I really didn't, I don't remember why we went to the hospital because I don't remember being so uncomfortable and so out of sorts that I needed to go. So it was interesting to think back on it and been like, yeah, I definitely could have waited at home a little bit longer until they got a little bit more intense, you know?

Rachael Hutchins (19:56.235)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (20:04.498)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, but that's a pretty common response. It's understandable when people have those contractions and they feel intense to them, like they feel and they're getting, maybe they're building and getting closer together. It's like, and you don't know, you don't know. And that's, there's no shame. There's no fault. If you go and you're earlier than you thought, that's where, but we're like, it's okay. Go home, go back home. It's okay. It takes time. For some people, it takes days. For some people, it takes

Dr. Shannon (20:09.448)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (20:17.752)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (20:25.093)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (20:30.172)
Mm-hmm. Like, it's OK. Yeah. Exactly.

Rachael Hutchins (20:34.342)
handful of hours, everyone is different. So hold it very loosely, be prepared for it to go longer. We say prepare for that marathon, hope for a sprint, um and so some things to do right during early labor.

Dr. Shannon (20:44.671)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (20:50.767)
right? I'm gonna say what do we do to occupy that time?

Rachael Hutchins (20:56.226)
The advice Hannah and I give might be different than either what people see and hear often or what people think. We say rest. We say rest, rest. And people are like, but I'm in labor. I got to get the show on the road, right? I got to like, I got to do and you're excited. So doing and being active is more like ease. Like it's easy. Words, words are hard.

Dr. Shannon (21:07.317)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:12.803)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:25.979)
words

Rachael Hutchins (21:26.218)
It's easier to access doing than resting. And again, I can tell you, Hey, when labor begins rest, you'll be like, okay, I would love someone to tell me to rest. Right? They're like, I got this. I'll rest. Can't wait. Take a nap. Then labor starts and adrenaline is going. You're excited. You're amped up. You know, we say identify that, but then you see, you have to have intentional rest. You have to have a plan for resting. Like

Dr. Shannon (21:30.172)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (21:40.635)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (21:52.945)
I was gonna say, how do you rest? Yeah, you've got to create that plan.

Rachael Hutchins (21:54.974)
Right exactly easier said than done. No I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you Also if you're like a type a person and you're like, okay when I'm in labor I'm going to like grab my My I'm going to pack finish packing my hospital bag. I'm going to get the dog sorted. I'm going to text my friends or whatever On your to-do list is going to be rest every like three activities You're going to put rest right and so and you're telling your partners this too. How can I support my wife?

Dr. Shannon (22:05.395)
Yeah.

Uh-huh. I'm going to check off these things on my to-do list. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (22:23.902)
laboring mama in labor, rest, encourage rest. I can't, how many times have I said rest in this past 30 seconds? But if it's nighttime, if labor has begun and it's nighttime, this is where like you definitely wanna access rest because you've gone, you were up the day before like having a normal day and you haven't slept since that prior night. So if it's early labor, contractions are manageable, you're going to maybe

Dr. Shannon (22:31.051)
I'm sorry.

Rachael Hutchins (22:53.09)
get up and eat a meal. We encourage this because this is going to be one of the like you kind of have some energy need to burn off anyways. So you're not going to be able to lay in bed and force yourself like to rest or to sleep. So it's okay. Get up, kind of see how you're feeling. Go eat a good meal, something that's easy to digest, easy to get down. I love like eggs and toast, PB and J, soup, chicken soup, smoothie, something like that. Even if it's 2am.

Again, you can have your partner do this while you start running a bath and run a nice comfortable bath, epsom salts with maybe some lavender in there, dim the lights, get on some chill music and just like get in the tub. Because getting in that warm water, getting yourself in that weightless environment is going to help slow things down. And you might feel like this is counterproductive. I don't want to slow things down. Yes. But if it's early, if it's like game time.

The bath is not going to slow down. The bath isn't going to slow things down. If we're like an ebb and flow in early labor for a minute, you're going to get a little bit of a reprieve. And the reason this is beneficial is because now you've gotten some food, you've taken a bath with all the relaxing things. So Epsom salt helps your muscles relax. Also drink some water to counter that warm bath with the Epsom salts. Got the lavender going. You've kept the lights dim. You're not like up talking, being loud. Like we're keeping the energy down.

Dr. Shannon (23:53.191)
Right. That's not gonna... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (24:10.46)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (24:20.95)
And then you go straight from there to the bed. And a great position for early labor is called the exaggerated Sims or like exaggerated lunge, but side lying. So you're lying on your side. Let's say you start on your left side, you're pointing that bottom leg nice and straight. Top leg is like as high on pillows as you can manage. And then you rotate your belly button as if it's trying to point towards the floor and you hug a pillow around your arms and kind of squeeze it.

Dr. Shannon (24:32.739)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:43.433)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:50.419)
And you can have those pillows like under that knee as well too to keep that. Yeah, like the hip from relaxing. That's kind of like part of that Niles circuit. You're doing those pillows. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (24:50.87)
This is.

Yep, yeah support the knee. Yeah you're taking that knee and it's landing on either if you have a peanut ball at home awesome. The knee is supported under either a big stack of pillows or something like a peanut ball and then you're using the space because you've now opened up your hips to rotate your belly button towards kind of towards the ground and then you're hugging a pillow and then you're resting your head. So we're in a nice like relaxed position but it's also great for

Dr. Shannon (25:01.413)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:12.07)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:20.994)
facilitating labor progress, keeping the hips open. It's usually comfortable. Most people like it. This is a great time for the partner to kind of get in behind you, rub your back, nice gentle like cat-like petting, just like really helping you relax. And the contractions hopefully are gonna keep coming. If they don't, you're definitely like either in like progenital labor or super early labor, take the rest, right? But if they do keep coming,

Dr. Shannon (25:23.427)
Mm-hmm. I was gonna say most people, yeah, like that position. Yep.

Dr. Shannon (25:46.599)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:48.598)
then you can stay the goal would be to stay in that sideline position and then like rock hug the pillow and just rock your partner can kind of massage your hips or your back during the contraction but mind you at this point they're like 30 seconds long with gaps between space between of 10 15 20 minutes or longer so if you're in that position in a restful position

Dr. Shannon (25:56.293)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (26:09.692)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (26:16.374)
You're going to feel that contraction come. It's going to wake you up. So you might say, I'm having contractions. I can't sleep. Okay. Of course we hear that. So rock through it. But then when it's over, if you're upright and moving around and walking around, you're not going to be able to access rest or, or relaxation. When the in between, when the contractions over. So if you're in that lying position, then you can't. So that's the goal. So you would ideally stay in the bed, especially. So we're talking nighttime.

Dr. Shannon (26:30.899)
Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (26:46.282)
and then you're going to try and get to sleep or just achieve good rest, conserving energy between contractions. And hopefully you're able to still maybe doze off or just stay in restful position until being in that lying down position is no longer good for you. If really truly you've tried and it's like, no, I, and that's a real thing being lying down sometimes in labor is really uncomfortable, but you could then maybe sit on a yoga ball next to the bed.

Dr. Shannon (27:03.845)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (27:13.974)
and then do a big stack of pillows on the bed and then like drape your head over the pillows. And so you're sitting in a ball, which is maybe sometimes more comfortable than lying down, but you can still rest your upper body and then maybe doze off. You can also get in hands and knees on the bed with a big stack of pillows in front of you and then drape your body like over the stack of pillows. Again, very relaxing, very like more restorative positions, but yet.

Dr. Shannon (27:19.859)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (27:27.082)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (27:37.203)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (27:42.742)
being in those more gravity neutral or upright positions might feel better for you for labor, but we're still focusing on rest between contractions. So this is night time.

Dr. Shannon (27:51.363)
Exactly. And I think one of the things to say when we're saying rest is sometimes my mind goes immediately to, well, like sleep. But rest can, in this sense too, it's like a stillness of movement rather than like, again, you said you may not go into complete sleep or maybe you do fall asleep and yes, it's interrupted, but there is a stillness to what you are doing, right? You know, like it's just exactly calming things down. So that's...

Rachael Hutchins (28:00.459)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (28:05.999)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (28:14.67)
Mm-hmm. Yep, conserving energy. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (28:21.255)
I don't know. Sometimes I just didn't want people to think like it's just oh straight up sleep and it's like no right Yeah

Rachael Hutchins (28:24.574)
No, this is rest doesn't mean sleep. If you can access sleep, great. Rest just means letting being still and then also trying to visualize and focus on like letting all the tension go between contractions. Again, this is an intentional effort because contractions bring tension. And if you hold onto that tension, it builds up over time. And it actually makes the contractions feel more painful. So if in that lying down position, you're thinking you're doing like a body scan and you're going from head to toe,

Dr. Shannon (28:37.695)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (28:49.192)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (28:54.282)
and you're like releasing the tension between your brows, letting your jaw go, letting your shoulders go, letting your fingers unfurl, let your bottom go, like unclench anything that's clenched, wiggle your toes, like walk through everything to let it go, it's gonna help you be able to access the stillness and the rest and the benefits of being in this like more restful position between contractions. And it's also gonna help you prepare for.

Dr. Shannon (29:05.019)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (29:22.566)
rest of labor. It's like laying the foundation. So really focusing on releasing tension. That's a great partner tip to giving them those instructions of like reminding you to release the tension and reminding you like kind of doing that body scan with you and maybe even touching you in those areas is going to help you. I don't know if you're, I know me and I can't say everyone's this way. We have a lot of people who are like don't touch me but like you know you touch my, you give me a little head scalp scratch and I'm like okay.

Dr. Shannon (29:24.908)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (29:38.086)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (29:49.555)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep, exactly.

Rachael Hutchins (29:52.942)
I'm like a cat, right? So, um, we got to practice. I encourage practicing these things during pregnancy, like at bedtime, get in that position, you know, have your partner do the body scan, take some deep breaths, like practice. Like a lot of this has to take some intentional effort. And then during the daytime, so flavors picked up during the day, or you've maybe done this all night and now it's daytime.

Dr. Shannon (30:01.648)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:16.691)
Yes. Okay.

Rachael Hutchins (30:21.378)
So if you were able, if you have a decent night's rest before and it's daytime, this is a great time for distractions. Like carry on as normal, as much of normal as you feel you can do. So if it's going to the grocery store, if it's going out to eat, I love that you shared that story about going out to eat. I also went out to eat with my second and was in labor, like having contractions and was literally doing it cause I'd kind of been off and on all day. And I was like, oh,

Dr. Shannon (30:41.963)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:45.39)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (30:49.071)
Yeah. Let's just, I'm like, I'm glad I had the, um, that ability to go eat because then I was like, well, this is a distraction. Cause who knows? Maybe it would have gone too early then too. So yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (30:50.626)
I don't care, I'm just gonna go out to eat. So glad.

Rachael Hutchins (31:00.094)
One of my favorite pictures is, cause I went with my mom and my dad and Everett and Jay, my husband and my son, is like, we laughed. We laughed and I was having contractions, but everyone like stayed chill. No one was bothered. Like, but we took a picture at the end. I've got my mom and my dad, they've got their hands on my belly. And we are just like grinning ear to ear. And I mean, baby, he was here 12 hours later. Like, what?

Dr. Shannon (31:06.866)
Okay.

Dr. Shannon (31:11.334)
Hahaha.

Dr. Shannon (31:15.935)
You're like, I'm having contractions, but we're laughing.

Dr. Shannon (31:22.837)
That's so cute.

Dr. Shannon (31:26.844)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (31:29.518)
Like to look and be in like in that moment out in public. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, so distraction. So carry on as normal. I like to say make a Labor Day list so that you don't let the excitement comes in and you like forget everything you learned. Like put it on the fridge, put it somewhere where you'll remember it and Labor Day activities. So they could be special. It could be, I'm gonna go to the store, I'm gonna buy everything to make a birthday cake.

Dr. Shannon (31:31.441)
That span of time, this is what happened. That's cute. So distractions.

Dr. Shannon (31:45.853)
Ha ha ha, Labor Day.

Dr. Shannon (31:50.196)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (31:59.682)
I'm not going to have any of those ingredients on hand until I'm in labor. And then I'm going to go to the grocery store. I'm going to buy the things to make a birthday cake, or I'm going to go to the store and make a freezer meal for postpartum, or I'm going to go make something that I can, like a lasagna to bake and eat after when we get home or something, whatever. Some things you enjoy doing, like I love cooking, so I'm using that example. But maybe it's go to the park and go for a walk or maybe it's go walk around Ikea or Target.

Dr. Shannon (31:59.945)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:07.888)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:13.497)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:27.394)
Something that's very distracting, like you could just peruse and not feel like you, you can kind of get lost in the process. I love like lunch with the girlfriends or family and friends, date night, connection with your partner, husband.

Dr. Shannon (32:27.453)
Hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:34.406)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:45.634)
I was going to say something else about, oh, manicures, pedicures, right? Those really is oxytocin. You get massage, you're relaxed. So you know, kind of some things that feel good, that make you happy. We're focusing on getting oxytocin going and flowing and also keeping you distracted and not focused on labor. And then you're balancing all of this distraction stuff with rest. So you're going to, you're going to

Dr. Shannon (32:59.406)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:09.342)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (33:11.202)
go to the grocery store in the morning and you're going to make that birthday cake or whatever you decide to make and then you're going to take a warm bath and then you're going to get in the bed and do the side lying exaggerated sins position and rest for an hour. And if you can't sleep, put on a show, listen to an audio book, read a book, whatever, but just let your body rest. Try to let your mind rest that stillness, try to access relaxation, try to access like being patient, taking labor.

Dr. Shannon (33:22.865)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:32.499)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (33:40.222)
some visualization, some mantras of like whatever resonates with you to help you stay focused and relaxed. And then alternating that with activity and distraction. You're also focusing on hydration and good food. So fueling your body like a marathon, like a big event, physical event, how would you fuel your body, right? Things that are going to serve you easily digestible, highly nutritious foods leading up in that time. And you're, this is going to be the time you're most likely going to want to eat anyways.

Dr. Shannon (33:52.371)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:59.13)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:10.466)
So eat the good meals. Connection, so partner connection during this time. If you are in a relationship and it doesn't have to be just sexy time, right? Cuddling, kissing, shower time, massage, you know, try some of those holding hands, cuddling up on the couch, watching a funny show on TV, like with your partner, like all of that's going to boost oxytocin. And oxytocin.

Dr. Shannon (34:28.86)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:40.594)
is the love hormone and it is a driver in labor and your uterus has oxytocin receptors on it and they build up over time. So in early labor you're helping those oxytocin stores get bigger and stronger so that when labor picks up you're ready to go. So leaning into connection time, partner time.

Dr. Shannon (34:41.52)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (34:58.923)
Mm-hmm. That's how this rests. And then yeah, boosting the oxytocin can help further down the road, you know? Yeah, it can help immediately too, but that's pretty cool when you think of it like that. Like, ah, setting myself up for success later on.

Rachael Hutchins (35:06.27)
Yep.

Rachael Hutchins (35:13.018)
Yeah and laying the yeah laying that foundation this is like the more you can lean into this and I think a lot of people when they do it they look fondly on that day kind of like you shared and then I shared like it's a memory you won't forget you're in labor but yet you're doing these other things and that's why I say choose the things you do intentionally like have the list like have some things to do and then balance it with rest and then just don't put a time on it just we're going to do this until you know until

Dr. Shannon (35:15.377)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:22.219)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was like, oh, that was so fun. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:32.057)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (35:42.722)
Things pick up until labor is demanding my attention.

Dr. Shannon (35:43.879)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm exactly. So now if we're shifting into active labor What is that? What are some of the signs things that we're looking for thoughts feelings? sensations that we're trying to I don't know categorize or at least kind of figure out what's going on that shows us. Okay now We're shifting into that active labor What are some of those things?

Rachael Hutchins (36:00.747)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (36:13.372)
look like, feel like, sound like.

Rachael Hutchins (36:15.014)
Yeah, and there is a shift and it's notable because you've been kind of like doing normal life, everything leading up to this and all of a sudden things start to feel different. They start to feel more intense and this is when sometimes we're like, oh things have shifted. I'm now in active labor and a lot of times, especially for first-time birthers, you're just in kind of late early labor and not to make a subcategory of an already like complicated.

Dr. Shannon (36:41.821)
The three parts of the three parts of the three parts. I know.

Rachael Hutchins (36:44.226)
But it's usually where one of the examples we like to share is let's say in early labor, you're starving and you order a pizza and in early labor, you're the one that makes the order, you pick out what you're gonna have, you make the phone call, like you're chatty, you're excited, craving pizza, so excited. But in the time between when you place that order, when it comes, you've shifted into active labor.

and or your things have intensified right your kind of things are picking up. Now the pizza man shows up pizza person shows up. You could care less about that pizza. They ring the doorbell they're hammering the door you're like what door I don't care someone will get it. If I don't get it they'll leave it at the door. I don't care like you've lost like all interest in that thing. So that's like the mindset is like early labor I'm social I'm active I'm engaged like pre

Dr. Shannon (37:22.418)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (37:27.609)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (37:34.002)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (37:39.554)
Prefrontal cortex is on fire, you're talkative, you're thinking, you're answering, like all these things. As you're shifting into active labor, the prefrontal cortex dims. So like your thinking brain gets more quiet and then your primitive brain lights up and that's where you're returned more inward and you're more focused on labor. It's demanding your attention. That's kind of another way to look at it. Whereas before you could have the conversations during contractions, but now it's, no, I need to be.

Dr. Shannon (37:43.239)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (37:51.21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (37:55.813)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:02.992)
Yeah, I like that.

Rachael Hutchins (38:08.906)
My eyes are closed or maybe I'm making some sounds. Maybe I'm like instinctually moving, especially between contractions, not just during contractions, but between contractions. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (38:12.048)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:17.307)
Mm-hmm. It's as I say, I think it's the not just during the contractions that it kind of that time in between Feels different as well, too

Rachael Hutchins (38:27.454)
Yes, that's where you're really like another good example is you're watching it. You've turned on a marathon of your favorite show. You're watching it during contractions, you're closing your eyes, you're like breathing through it. But then between contractions, you're back to watching it. But that's like the extent of your energy. Like that's still early. But then now like you're shifting and now you're not. You don't want to watch the show anymore. Your eyes are closed between contractions and during contractions like.

Dr. Shannon (38:44.77)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (38:55.722)
And that's, it looks different for everyone, but that's just like a little bit of a like, what's it look like on the outside? What's it feel like versus obviously there's like, cause we get to talk about like dilation, but you may not know where you're at in that part. And that doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. So almost like forget about that part of it. The other thing is your contractions are going to become longer. They're gonna now be notably a little bit longer, stronger, closer together. And then doing that for a while.

Dr. Shannon (39:08.395)
Mm-hmm

Dr. Shannon (39:21.256)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (39:24.318)
and kind of growing in intensity. So you're really starting to shift. And in this initial shift, kind of like a mini transition, you might feel shaky, you might feel flu-like, you might feel like, kind of like coming out of your body a little bit. And so knowing that that's normal, and so just to try and touch on without getting too on a tangent, but the hormones of labor, we talked, oxytocin and endorphins are sort of like,

Dr. Shannon (39:38.68)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (39:52.89)
the good hormones that you want to flow freely and then cortisol and adrenaline is what we want to try and keep to a minimum because they can't really go at the same time and if you've got too much cortisol which is your stress and your fight or flight adrenaline hormone that diminishes oxytocin so we need oxytocin flowing freely. Oxytocin is released in your brain and helps you cope with pain so does endorphins right? Endorphins are your

Dr. Shannon (40:13.172)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (40:20.246)
or your happy hormone, right? You can relate as a runner, you have a big burst of endorphins after a big hard run. So these are helping you cope with the intensity of labor picking up. But if labor picks up an intensity too soon, like, or quickly, your endorphins and oxytocin don't have a chance to catch up. So you need to give it like 30 or 45 minutes of good coping techniques before

Dr. Shannon (40:23.686)
Oh yeah.

Dr. Shannon (40:43.571)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (40:48.479)
Hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (40:49.63)
and then you'll get back on top of it. Does that make sense? So it's like this sort of ramp up of like you oxytocin is steadily increasing and endorphins are steadily increasing as labor is intensifying and that's great. That's why like if you walked into labor at 10 centimeters from nothing, it'd be really impossible to cope. But since we have the steady progress and the, yeah, it helps you cope. So.

Dr. Shannon (40:52.965)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (41:10.927)
Right. You ease into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (41:16.254)
In this mini transition where you're shifting kind of early active labor or late early labor, however you want to call it. You need to give yourself some time for those hormones to catch up to serve you. So you're feeling a little bit out of your body, a little bit shaky, a little bit doubtful, scared. This is where you would need to have something written down or your partner reminds you, your dual if you have one like, okay, you're doing great. Your body is showing you signs it's in labor. This is all good. This is all normal. Now here are some things to do to help you get back on top of things. Um,

Dr. Shannon (41:25.972)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (41:40.272)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (41:44.099)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Rachael Hutchins (41:46.618)
And another really helpful tip for, I'm gonna back up just a little bit for early labor, is massage therapy and chiropractic care.

Dr. Shannon (41:50.769)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (41:58.567)
I literally just put on our outline. I was like, oh, I forgot to mention something. So I typed it out and I was like, I'll just go back to it at the end. But yeah, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (42:05.194)
I thought about this last night, because we were talking about our outlines, and I was like, there's one more thing I wanted to add, because that's also something we tell people regularly. It's one of the things to do. People are like, I can go do that in labor. I'm like, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (42:11.428)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (42:14.911)
I love adjusting moms and labor. And when people hear that, they're like, I'm like, y'all, we're not pushing, it's not the pushing stage, okay? It's not, yes. So there's that early labor, there's so many little factors that go into that as well too. And so if I'm looking at it from, I have a couple of different lenses I'm looking at it from. So if we've got labor that started and maybe it has stalled.

Rachael Hutchins (42:21.942)
Can you tell us how that can benefit a laboring mama?

Dr. Shannon (42:41.775)
and not getting back on track. We've done some other things at home I love, like curb walking and things like that. Then that's like where it has been progressing and then stopped. I think adjustments are great because there could potentially be fetal malposition. And so baby's just not in the best way. So it's kind of like body is like, okay, well wait, mom and baby need to do this dance a little bit, a little bit more in sync. That's why I do love the curb walking. I've had several moms that were like labor stalled. They were already at the birth center and they did some curb walking and got things going. So.

But looking at adjustments from that aspect of can we bring just that last little bit of balance to the pelvis and sacrum and allow baby to engage better is one way. But another aspect, you were just talking about like oxytocin and endorphins and we've got cortisol and adrenaline. We have our stress hormones. So we have like almost like this dance between, I don't want to say fight, I almost said fight. I was like, I'm going to call it a dance.

between the sympathetic and that parasympathetic part of the nervous system. And I've mentioned this before in episodes, you can't really heal your body if you're running from a bear, if you think you're running from a bear. But that's why animals go, cats go and give birth in the closet or something like that, you know, you're like little feral cats and stuff. So it's the same thing for us humans, but...

Rachael Hutchins (43:57.454)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (44:05.127)
chiropractic care when you're looking at it from not only just that biomechanical aspect, but how can we help regulate the nervous system? So really looking at can we help bring that dance a little bit better and have parasympathetic click on a little bit more. And so I think of that as like a way to rest as well.

You know, I'm probably staying out of the thoracics when I'm adjusting moms then. Dr. Pam and I have talked about that on an episode before because that's where fight or flight sympathetic nervous system lives. And we're trying to engage more. So it's gonna be pelvis and sacral adjustments. It's gonna be cervical spine adjustments. It's gonna be a lot of good cranial work to really impact like what's going on between the ears and help primitive brain function a little bit better. And to just tell that, that developed frontal lobe to just calm down for a minute.

So, but yeah, it's totally fine to be adjusted while in labor.

Rachael Hutchins (44:59.966)
Yep, it is definitely one of the things we recommend doing if they've been under care, of course, with and that's why we encourage being under care during pregnancy so that when you're in labor, you can go seek that easily. We've had people go multiple times, like if it's been like a couple days of early labor, go like go each day. It's kind of like, yeah, I'm going back unless things pick up. So yeah, thank you for touching on that.

Dr. Shannon (45:04.904)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:17.198)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:24.299)
And I've had some moms too where they're like, well, I don't wanna go, is this gonna put me into labor? And I've had some moms ask like, can you do the labor adjustment? And I'm like, well, I, it's the kind of the same thing that you had said earlier, like, I don't know, like it's not me, it's this dance between you and baby and the physiology there. So there's not like a certain thing, but that's also, there's not a switch, yeah. But I haven't had it to where like either that, I've had some moms are like, wait, I'm not ready. Like.

Rachael Hutchins (45:36.451)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (45:41.994)
It's your body, yeah.

There's not a switch.

Dr. Shannon (45:53.615)
Is this going to put me into labor? And it's, no, it's not going to put you into labor. It's just going to facilitate nervous system function. So it was like, it's kind of, I don't know. It's not, yeah, there's no switch. If your body's ready.

Rachael Hutchins (46:04.478)
Yeah, but if your body's ready and it's getting the signal from baby, right, prostaglandins released once the baby's lungs are fully developed, like if all things have aligned and you happen to get it, it's like a, that's not a causation, right? It's not causing it. It's just part of the process. Um, but it helps facilitate, helps get you, if your body is ready, then, so you could have someone that gets adjusted and then go into labor and say, Oh, that's cause I got adjusted. But that was a piece of it for sure. Cause they were in alignment. And maybe that's what it was waiting on.

Dr. Shannon (46:17.607)
It could be that correlation. Mm-hmm, mm-mm.

Dr. Shannon (46:23.496)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (46:31.487)
That was a piece, right? Your body was ready. That was the thing. Your body and baby were ready.

Rachael Hutchins (46:34.582)
but your body was ready. I would say the answer to that is the body is ready because we have a great prenatal massage therapist to Tara Thompson on our team and she helps people in labor too. And it's not that that's, or in those final days leading up to when the birth happens and it's not necessarily causing it, but helping release tension, definitely focusing on some points in the body that are beneficial to making sure your body is ready.

Dr. Shannon (46:44.479)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (46:50.938)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (47:02.722)
for when it gets a signal from baby. So we love that too.

Dr. Shannon (47:04.851)
Mm-hmm. You know, and I always I do recommend that prenatal massage as well too for I mean, that's a beautiful way to rest it's a beautiful way to impact how the nervous system is functioning as well too And then letting someone else come in and do it so then that way your partner can rest as well too because we don't want them like completely depleted and exhausted if they're just trying to Do all of the you know, all of the resting tools or whatnot. So

Rachael Hutchins (47:13.775)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (47:29.854)
Yeah, so yay, I'm glad we circled back to that. Um, and that could be early, uh, labor could be early active labor too. Just, I mean, depends on your, you know, how you're feeling. Um, but going back to things are picking up, right? It's feeling more intense. You're going to feel like you want to, if you're, so this is obviously specifically for people going to a hospital or birth center, you're leaving your home to give birth. This doesn't necessarily apply to home birth, right?

Dr. Shannon (47:32.151)
I know. I'm glad you read my mind.

Dr. Shannon (47:46.877)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:57.594)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (47:59.33)
you're staying at home for that. But you're going to start feeling like doubtful and like can I keep doing this at home? I'm not sure right and this is where we're going to really focus on coping techniques during this time. So as labor is demanding more of your attention it's getting more intense even if you're feeling like doubtful or things are more painful say like yes I'm in labor my body is doing what it's supposed to do and then focus on the more labor-y things. So main goal is

Dr. Shannon (48:24.391)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (48:27.902)
releasing tension between contractions, that's the goal number one. So for the contraction, you can do whatever you want really. We have some helpful tips, but the goal is really releasing the tension between contraction. And even at this point, you should probably still have five, six, seven, eight minutes between contractions. And that's where you're focusing on like letting all your muscles go, body scan, phrases we like are melt like butter or ragdoll.

So again, that visualization of like a cube of butter hitting a hot pan and just like melting away. That's what we want your muscles to do. Or ragdoll, just let it all go. Some of those like cue phrases, and those are great. Again, partner phrases because saying just relax or you're okay or, you know, usually it's just relax, which is not helpful. Saying these phrases is more helpful. So realizing tension between contractions, thinking about rhythm and ritual.

Dr. Shannon (48:57.55)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (49:11.312)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (49:27.07)
And where you can kind of latch onto that in your labor is also really helpful. And some examples of this could be, um, you're in the shower. We love getting in the shower. It's a great place. Again, hop back in the shower. You can get in and out of the shower as much as you want. So things that picked up hop back in the shower and you can face the water during the contraction and just like fill the tippy taps of the water on your skin, fill the water running over your belly. Like focus on that versus the, the contraction itself.

Dr. Shannon (49:54.751)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (49:54.774)
Think about the water washing the pain away, washing the intensity away. And then when the contractions over, you can turn around and let the water run on your back. And now you get relief on your back. And this is a different sensation, right? You're focusing now differently. Or if you have a stool in your bathroom, sit down. Contractions over, sit down. And then contraction comes back, you stand up. You sway with the water running over your belly. You're visualizing the water running over you and off and down the drain. And then the contraction ends and you sit back down.

Dr. Shannon (50:04.563)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (50:17.401)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:24.406)
or you turn whatever you've like decided is going to be my rest activity or my contraction activity and then you're alternating and now you're just thinking now I'm just like that's your rhythm.

Dr. Shannon (50:32.461)
Mm-hmm. And now there's that rhythm. And that even engages like Vegas nerve as well too, which is going to be a really big part of like the calming factors because Vegas nerves loves dance and rhythm. And it doesn't have to be like, you know, spicy salsa dancing. Like it's that, it can be that slow rhythmic dancing. That's really good.

Rachael Hutchins (50:37.296)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:49.478)
Yep. Another one we like in a home with like a kitchen island is like, okay, for the contraction, walk at whatever pace you want, walk around the island. And you can maybe count how many times you walk around it, whatever, whatever helps you like kind of focus out, like not on the contraction itself. And then when the contraction is over, or maybe you could pace between contractions. And then when it's over, lean over the counter.

Dr. Shannon (51:17.988)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (51:18.334)
or when it's coming, when the contractions coming, lean over the counter, because that tends to be a natural, like people want to lean forward during a contraction, right? Cause things intensify, it gets really painful. So lean over the counter, sway your hips, do some hip dips, partner can rub your hips, counter pressure on your back. And then when the contractions over, walk around the island. And then contraction comes, lean over the counter, sway side to side, do some hip dips, keep movement going, help that tension get out of your body. Then you get a break and you walk.

Dr. Shannon (51:25.678)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:36.511)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:43.43)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (51:47.242)
You can change directions of the way you go to like, so now you've another, like, it's kind of like, where can I find this like rhythm? And then it becomes a ritual. Cause now you're doing it in this like succinct way. Um, or you slow dance with your partner during a contraction. And then when it's over, you sit on the yoga ball and you just rest. And then during a contraction dance with your partner, slow dance, hang on his neck, let that gravity and just like, let it all go and then sit on your ball. So this like alternating activity. Helps you cope.

Dr. Shannon (51:54.175)
Hmm.

Dr. Shannon (51:57.71)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:04.767)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:17.439)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (52:17.482)
Right? Accesses the vagus nerve gives you something to think about. Like I'm just going to focus on like doing this one thing for this one minute. And then I get a break and I'm going to do this other thing for the break. So that's your kind of rhythm and ritual and that brings on relaxation. Right. And I give some different examples so that you can kind of like be open to whatever that looks like for you. Um, cause it looks, again, it looks different for everybody. Right. Um, and then, um,

Dr. Shannon (52:26.504)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:30.736)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:37.327)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (52:44.158)
I had another thing I was going to say movement, breath, rhythm and ritual. Okay. Touched on that. Um, I don't know if I had any other examples. I think I was maybe going to talk about. So with breathing, another like kind of way you can bring, bring in rituals with counting. So a couple of different ways is that you can count your inhales.

Dr. Shannon (52:52.72)
Mm-hmm. We did rhythm. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (53:01.611)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:05.707)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (53:10.414)
So you want like that long, slow inhale and a long, even longer, slow exhale. So say you do four, inhale, six, exhale, having your partner kind of count that for you. So you inhale one, two, three, four, exhale, two, three, four, five, six. Inhale two, right? Right.

Dr. Shannon (53:14.527)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (53:30.043)
Yep, that engages parasympathetic nervous system.

Rachael Hutchins (53:34.406)
and you're focusing, you're just like, all right, let's count. And then maybe you do five total of those for a contract. That would be probably a lot of it. Three or four of those for a contraction and then you're through it. Right. So you can count your breath thinking like either square breathing or rectangle breathing. And then having someone else count for you, we were just talking about this the other day, like if you're doing a workout and intense workout and someone else is leading.

Dr. Shannon (53:44.596)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:48.927)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (53:56.574)
And you've had to like go to like a dark place in the workout to like get through it. Cause it's so hard. And you're like, if someone else could just count for me, you know, you lose count of your reps if you're doing it yourself. But if someone's like, all right, 10 more. Right. Whatever it is, you can be like, okay, I can just keep going until they're done counting, because all you're thinking about is them telling you you're done. So letting the partner sort of helped you with that and letting them count. And then you're not thinking about how long that contraction is going to be. You're just focusing on them counting for you. Um, that's a really.

Dr. Shannon (54:00.228)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (54:16.396)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (54:24.906)
helpful way to kind of get through it. And then, or you can count your, like inhale, exhale. So you inhale, exhale, that's one. Inhale, exhale, that's two. And maybe you do 10 of those and you're through it. So some different ways. And again, I'm all about practicing, testing this out during pregnancy.

Dr. Shannon (54:35.498)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (54:41.723)
Right. I would definitely do that during pregnancy. I did an episode on here about like some of my favorite breathing exercises for pregnancy and postpartum. And in that I even shared, there's like some exercises that I share with people that I can't stand. It actually does not bring relaxation to me. But that's why you want to go through this during pregnancy so you know, okay, this doesn't bring relaxation. So what are the breathing techniques I can do that can bring that? So yeah, definitely practice.

Rachael Hutchins (55:05.56)
Right.

Rachael Hutchins (55:11.91)
Yes, and a fun way to practice fun, I use that word loosely, but is using a bowl of ice water and submerging your hand in the ice water and using some of using that kind of distraction, that pain, that intensity to do some breathing exercises because sometimes it's if you're not feeling any certain way and you're trying to practice breathing exercises it doesn't really let you know how you're actually going to. Yeah, so using the ice cube.

Dr. Shannon (55:29.075)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (55:37.007)
It doesn't mimic the situation as much as what you need it to.

Rachael Hutchins (55:41.114)
ice cold water with your hand in it is a good way to practice and then having your partner nearby having him count for you. Again I can tell someone all day long try this and they'll nod and say yes you're not going to be able to just in labor access these things. I mean there's a lot you can access there's a lot of innate wisdom and ability hundred percent but if you're really wanting to have some intentional effort you've got to practice practice.

Dr. Shannon (55:47.793)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (55:56.358)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (56:06.304)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (56:08.794)
with the breathing too with the body scan practicing that before labor begins is really helpful and so that's where you're kind of addressing each little part in your body by inhale exhale inhale exhale body scans are really great for the breaks for releasing tension and then the partner is a huge role i've mentioned it many times here as far as helping you labor at home as long as possible helping you achieve this because

Dr. Shannon (56:11.688)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (56:16.895)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (56:36.59)
They're part of that early labor connection and helping encourage rest and helping with food. You know, they're staying alongside you. They're, you know, your biggest cheerleader. So I encourage partners to lean in because in order for you to really achieve this goal, having someone alongside you who gets it as much as possible and who has some tools and has had these conversations, it's gonna be easier for you to get there because they're not gonna be bringing their own stress and fear into it because they're gonna be like, all right.

Dr. Shannon (57:01.562)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (57:02.23)
We've talked about this, we know what it looks like. And then especially as things are intensifying, I like to encourage the partner and remind them that them being close, them holding a hand, them providing a little bit of counter pressure or even like their voice, uh, with the counting and the breath brings a sense of support that the birthing person, like no one else can produce that connection. So when you're the partner and you have, like you're doing these things for your.

Dr. Shannon (57:17.896)
Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins (57:32.106)
your wife, your mama, it boosts oxytocin. Like, you know, when your partner leans in and you're like, they were there just in the way I needed them, flood you with oxytocin. And so I always encourage partners like you don't have to do all the labor magic. If you can just like be close, lean in, be supportive, that's going to give them a lot of oxytocin, which is helpful for labor.

Dr. Shannon (57:35.979)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dr. Shannon (57:48.638)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (57:56.527)
Exactly. Now, partner support is really good. The only other thing I would add with that breathing, going back to the breathing, is relaxing the jaw. We've mentioned that on this episode before though too, but that's one of the big things. I feel like I've mentioned that in some episode before. Maybe I had five things I go over or something, but...

Rachael Hutchins (58:09.621)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (58:21.291)
It's making sure that we relax our jaw, and that can translate to relaxing our pelvis as well too.

Rachael Hutchins (58:35.538)
Oh yeah, it's all connected. Yeah, relax jaw.

Dr. Shannon (58:37.275)
Mm-hmm, because the jaw and the sacrum are connected. So if there's tension in the pelvis, then there's tension in the jaw. If there's tension in the jaw, there's tension in the pelvis. And some of these relaxation coping techniques are great for even if you're not pregnant or if you're not going into labor. But yeah, I would add that to the. Mm-hmm. I would add that to the.

Rachael Hutchins (58:56.95)
Yeah, for coping with stress or stressful situations. Like I'm dealing with some serious TMJ right now because of stress. Ha ha ha.

Dr. Shannon (59:06.011)
Oh gosh. Well, there you go.

Rachael Hutchins (59:08.626)
Yeah. Um, but yeah, we say, we like to say loose jaw, loose cervix, like let it all go. And it is like, if you, if you really like give yourself a big, like, like a look, sinking sigh, open your mouth, let your exaggerate it. I feel like my pelvic floor let go. Like I feel everything just like let go. So try it at home. Try it. I promise. Um, and so you might also be wondering like,

Dr. Shannon (59:14.748)
Yep.

Dr. Shannon (59:23.669)
Mm-hmm like exaggerate it, you know

Dr. Shannon (59:29.604)
Mm-hmm. I know, tried that at home.

Rachael Hutchins (59:37.126)
When do I go to the hospital? Like I've gotten through all this. So general rule of thumb, you might hear your provider or someone say 5-1-1 as a rule of thumb. That's contractions are five minutes apart lasting for at least a minute and doing that for at least an hour. That's a good rule of thumb. You're probably nearing active labor, but if you're like, I really want to be in like deep active labor or beyond.

Dr. Shannon (59:39.784)
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:04.826)
a 3-1-1 and if you're close to the hospital and you feel comfortable you could also aim

Dr. Shannon (01:00:08.103)
Mm-hmm. There's lots of factors that go into feeling comfortable with that one. But yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:12.162)
for that. But again, that's easier. We were talking about this the other day. It's like those are numbers and it feels easy to get from five to three. But that will take a lot of intentional coping efforts and good support system. And if you have a doula, maybe they could come join you during that time that you're really going to need that extra layer of support.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:22.352)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:28.107)
Yeah. Well, that's what I was going to add to because I think having that doula, that labor support person who hopefully the childbirth education classes that you've had too, but having that person you can talk to say, okay, this is what's going on. Because even if you can't, or just to hear you or to listen or the partner calls or something and says these things and they can hear you in the background, like it's kind of that.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:38.86)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:53.663)
outside person being able to give some peace and comfort to the couple and say, okay, do you still want to wait? You can ask the question. It helps a ton. Knowing that you have that support person and having that support person there is, I think, would be huge and to help bring relaxation and calming as well too, even probably in those active stages of labor, just knowing.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:00.766)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it helps.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:07.713)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:22.567)
got someone there to help remind you of the things maybe that you don't think of during active labor or even like the early labor stages. So definitely the dual support.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:34.726)
Yes, well this has been fun. Hopefully you guys feel like you've learned something new about how to labor at home and that we, you know, kind of approach this as honestly and frankly as we could so that you can prepare in a meaningful and effective way.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:35.796)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:48.895)
and try to give some, try to get rid of the gray area of labor as much as we can. But you know, birth is unpredictable, so use the tools as you need.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:55.222)
Yeah. Yep.