Ep 157: Connection Between Your Jaw and Your Pelvis

In this episode, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael discuss the connection between the jaw and the pelvic floor. They provide an anatomy lesson, explaining the embryological and anatomical connections between the jaw and the pelvis. They also discuss the internal and external anatomical connections, as well as the nerve connections. They highlight the importance of releasing tension in the jaw and pelvic floor during pregnancy and birth, and provide practices to promote relaxation and surrender during labor. This conversation explores various techniques and practices to release tension in the body, specifically focusing on the jaw and pelvic floor. They also cover topics such as body scanning, partner involvement in tension release, yoga, breath work, chiropractic care, cranial work, fascia release techniques, pelvic floor physical therapy, facial cupping and massage. The key takeaway is that everything in the body is connected, and by taking one step at a time, individuals can find relief and improve their overall well-being.

Resources mentioned:

Ep 96: Give back to your body - pre and post natal yoga

Chapters

00:00

Anatomy lesson: Jaw and pelvic floor connection

03:42

Embryological and anatomical connections

06:08

Internal anatomical connections

07:56

External anatomical connections

09:45

Nerve connections

11:36

Cerebral spinal fluid and craniosacral pump

14:01

Implications for pregnancy and birth

26:22

Releasing tension and surrendering in labor

33:42

Practices to release tension and promote relaxation

34:31

Body Scan and Tension Release

35:07

Partner Involvement in Body Scan

36:37

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Chapters

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• 25:30 (Cont.) Ep 157: Connection Between Your Jaw and Your Pelvis

Transcript

Dr. Shannon (00:02.381)
Hi there, this is the Aligned Birth Podcast. You have two hosts of the show. So you got Dula Rachel here, you've got Dr. Shannon here, and we talk about all things motherhood. We talk about all things, pregnancy, birth, labor, postpartum, prenatal. Plump that up into perinatal, and that's what we talk about on the show. Today's topic is...

If you're a jaw clencher, there's a good chance that your pelvic floor is tight. That's like a fun little statement. So we're going to talk about how the jaw is connected to your pelvic floor. So we're going to do an anatomy lesson. Hang with me, hang with me. Don't freak out. It's anatomy lesson, but we're going to go back to embryological connection. We've got anatomical connections. We're going to talk about the nerve connections because you got to understand that.

to really, when you get that and you see the connections, you'll be like, holy moly, I have so much that I can do by just relaxing my jaw that can relax your pelvis, that can impact pregnancy, labor, birth. Like that's what I want to have that connection here so that you know like, hey, I can do this and it's really simple and it can be really, really impactful. So again, nerve connections, how everything is connected in the body and then we're gonna go into ways to tell.

Are you clenching your jaw? Is your pelvic floor tight? And what are things that you can do about it? So I'm really excited to geek out on this show today. I hope you are as well. And I know Rachel's ready to geek out on it. So hello, friend.

Rachael Hutchins (01:32.286)
Hi, Dr. Shannon. Yes, I am ready to learn. Take me to school. I was looking over this outline and was blown away by all the information you're going to be sharing today. I am a jaw clencher. I have learned a lot about how to release the tension in my jaw to promote overall health and well -being. I thought it would be a simple fix. It's kind of multi -layered and I'm as I'm

Dr. Shannon (01:37.941)
Take me to school!

Dr. Shannon (01:48.257)
There we go.

Rachael Hutchins (02:01.566)
just looking over the information you're going to be talking about today. I'm like, oh, okay, I get it. I get it. Yeah. And then I talk a lot about it with our clients who are preparing for birth, but I've also kind of lived my own personal experience with, with the tight jaw and pelvic floor issues. So, and how it all weaves into birth. So I'm here for this conversation today.

Dr. Shannon (02:05.805)
I get it now. See, I get it now.

Dr. Shannon (02:25.229)
Something just came to me. So I have a 14 year old. So he's in eighth grade. And if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll be able to see what I'm doing. But there's this whole thing going around about mewing, which is like strengthening your jawline, which is like really forcing your tongue to the top. Have you heard of this or seen these stupid videos? And it's all over the place. And so now he goes around and you do like the shush sign. Like you can't answer. I can't talk to you right now because I'm mewing. He'll do this to me all the time.

Rachael Hutchins (02:44.222)
I've heard of this, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (02:53.517)
and he'll like, you do the shush sign and then you put your hand along your jaw to be like, mm -mm, can't talk, I'm mewing. And that just reminded me of that, because like, oh, we're talking about the jawline today. I'm not gonna tell you how to mew, that's not what we're talking about, but I'm hip with it, y 'all. I'm hip with the times. And the eighth grade lingo. Anyways, okay, sidebar.

Rachael Hutchins (03:09.63)
You are, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (03:16.877)
We are gonna do an anatomy lesson today. It's very, very basic. Because every time I tried to get really, really complicated, I took it back down because I just loved learning about this in school. It's like when I learned the spinal nerve chart and saw like, oh, this nerve goes here and controls this function of the body. So when I adjust the body, this can impact this part. Like it makes sense. Like it's kind of that aspect of things. So we're gonna start.

all the way back at the beginning. We're gonna go back to embryological development. I think this is the biggest like mind blowing part of it that you may not realize. So when, this is day 15, day 15. So right, egg and sperm have come together. They did their little dance and now you have all these little cells forming. You got like two cells, four cells, eight cells, 16, 13, and it goes, goes, goes. You go through blastulation, then you get to gastrulation and that's where it forms like the ball.

of cells start to kind of like form into a tube and then the tube has two openings on it. And so you've got one end is the orophalangeal membrane. That's going to form the mouth. And these are connected, right? This tube is connected. And then the other side is the cloacal membrane. That's going to do the urinary tract, the end of the digestive tract, reproductive tract. So...

whichever sex it's gonna be, but you've got to think, you know, vagina or penis, you've got anus, like all of that is formed at the beginning. Then they start to separate and then the spinal cord is what forms in the middle. So it is embryologically connected, the jaw and the pelvis, and then they stay connected as the spinal cord forms. So I think that's really, really cool. So I know, right? Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (04:55.518)
cool is not, it doesn't even like, so this, we're talking about like our own, like our own creation from, you know, and then, you know, think about as you're preparing to give birth, like what's happening with your, with your baby on the inside. Yeah, that's super cool.

Dr. Shannon (05:01.549)
Aha. Aha. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (05:08.077)
What's happening inside?

And side note, this is why, and we've talked about this in so many pediatric chiropractic episodes, but this is why if I've got babies with tongue -tie issues or nursing issues or anything like that, this is why I'm doing sacral work because the jaw and the tongue and all of that is connected to the sacrum. So like that's the beginning stages of it as well. So sidebar note on that. Now I wanna go into, I called it, I kinda changed.

put it into two different sections. So we've got like internal anatomical connection. So this is more like brain and spinal cord. Then we're gonna do an external one, which is more of like the bones and the muscles, so like outside of the brain and the spinal cord. So internally, you've got this thick connective tissue that covers the brain and the spinal cord. It's the same tissue. And it's got three layers. So we'll work from like outside in, but you have like dura, arachnoid, and pia, mater.

And the dura mater, this is like, I love this, is Latin mater is mother and dura means tough or durable. So you literally have a tough mother surrounding your brain and your spinal cord. I just love that so much. I'm like, yeah, you got a tough mother. You got a tough mother in you surrounding some very, very valuable parts of your body. So you've got this dura mater.

Rachael Hutchins (06:24.766)
That's cool. Sure you do.

Dr. Shannon (06:33.407)
It comes up into the skull and into the brain and it forms around it. It's connected to the skull, but it forms these caverns It's got a couple different layers in the skull. So there's a lot more to it as well But that's where you've got these caverns in there That's where the cerebral spinal fluid is able to flow around and then that bathes the spinal cord as well then the dura mater comes and it connects and surrounds the Spinal cord as well. Now remember the word and remember we've talked about epidural like you get an epidural and

This is where that word comes from. It's literally just a Latin word. Epi means above and dura is that the mother that's surrounding the spinal cord. So it's between the dura and the vertebral wall. So there you go. Fun little. So now you know what it means. Now the dura mater is also anchored at the foramen magnum. So that's where the spinal cord like comes down from the brain and it goes all the way down to the coccyx. And so it's connected there and called the phylum terminale. So now you know.

Okay, embryologically it's connected. Now anatomically we've got this surrounding connective tissue that's connected to the bones, but also surrounds the brain and the spinal cord. Now we've got some external, I call them anatomical connections. This is more of like the bones and the muscles. There's this book called Anatomy Trains and we talked about it in school and it's so...

It's so fascinating. I love this book, but you've got this fascial system that covers all the muscles of the body. So when you're doing foam rolling, that's myofascial work. That is what you're working on is that fascial system that, cause that can hold a lot of tension as well. Not just the muscles, like the fascial system outside can hold a ton of tension. Then you've got, and this again too, this is not just the only fascial systems in the body. You have a lot more, but this is what I wanted to focus on today. You've got the posterior and the anterior. So when you think of,

your jaw and that TMJ joint that has muscle and motor supply to it. Like that has muscles that cause it to move, that cause you to talk, that cause you to be able to chew. Those muscles are connected to the neck muscles, which are connected to the back muscles, which are connected to the muscles of the pelvis, which are connected to the muscles of the pelvic floor. Right? So it literally is that.

Dr. Shannon (08:51.553)
you know, silly little song, the neck bones connected to the neck bone, you know, that whole thing. Like it's literally, this is part of that as how it's all connected. And then this is related to posture and stability in the body. So when I'm working with patients and I see that we have the ear in front of the shoulder, that's that anterior head translation, that's that text deck. And then I try to tell people,

It doesn't only cause neck pain, it can also cause low back pain. It can also cause low back tension. It can cause pelvic pain. It's because it's all connected. So again, there's that aspect. That's the posterior and then anterior, you have the anterior cervical muscles and that's going to connect to the chest and it's also going to connect to like anterior aspects of the pelvis as well. So that's kind of our internal, external, you know, anatomical connections. There is some nerve supply. I only want to go over a couple of the nerves.

And so trigeminal nerve, this is the fifth cranial nerve. We talked about this a little bit. This is what gives motor sensation, it's sensory and motor to the face and the jaw. So again, remember, if you've got, there's a lot of people that have TMJ issues. There's a lot of people. And it's not even just clenching your jaw. Like you can have, you can just have issues with the joint itself.

But that if you've got tension something is off with the jaw and the alignment then that's connected to the neck muscles connected to the back muscles connected to Pelvis, okay So remember that aspect of it and then of course the vagus nerve we talked about the vagus nerve before we're going to in depth It's another cranial nerve. So it's a tenth cranial nerve. This is the one that comes out doesn't it's not from the spinal cord This is from the skull comes out and really is very very close to that top bone in the neck. So see one

Atlas and it comes out kind of laterally beside that and then this is that parasympathetic control of the heart and the lungs and the digestive tract. This is sensory and motor. So this is how the gut communicates to the brain and the brain communicates to the gut and there's also branches of it that lead off into the pelvic floor as well. So now we have that connection, the nerve connection from the skull into the pelvis. Okay.

Dr. Shannon (11:06.189)
Hopefully you're still with me on the anatomy lesson. Now, you can't really talk about this without talking about cerebral spinal fluid. And I can't really talk about cerebral spinal fluid without talking a little bit about a craniosacral pump, which is another way everything is connected here too. So that cerebral spinal fluid, that bathes the brain and the spinal cord. And it's this wonderful liquid that provides protection, it provides nutrients, and then takes away waste as well too, just in a nutshell. It is...

I like to think of the motion of it is a little bit like, you know how the muscles of the body, so the heart pumps the, and uses the arteries to pump blood away. Well, you've got this venous supply that doesn't have that same pump. So as you move your body, that's how the blood supply gets back up to the heart. Okay. And then the lymph supply too, that's the motion and the movement that you have. It's kind of the same thing. There's a little bit of motion and movement that allows the cerebral spinal fluid to bathe the brain and the spinal cord. So it starts.

It's formed in the brain, covers the brain, and it's this like pulsatile motion. So you've got the heartbeat in the brain. You've got a blood supply to the brain, obviously. And it's the, as the beat in those arteries, it kind of pushes on the ventricles where that cerebral spinal fluid is and moves around. And then you have these little cells that have these like little hairs on them, little cilia, and they just go wee and like push all the fluid around too. And so you've got those parts that are pushing it around in the brain, but then you have to think you have that motion and movement of the spine.

that's gonna move that fluid around. Now, you have this craniosacral pump. So you have the cranium and the sacrum. We've talked about the ways that it's connected nerve related, the connective tissue, the muscle connection as well, and then that bony connection with the skull and the spine. But now it's also connected in this motion. And it's, I'm not talking big motion here, not big movement, but there's...

a craniosacral pump and it's this motion of you've got this free floating bone in the skull called the sphenoid and it's this beautiful like butterfly shaped bone and where it joins kind of with the occiput it does a little bit of rotation as the sacrum moves and the sacrum moves in a certain way as well and as you walk your body is able to use like that cerebral spinal fluids kind of like the oil for that system and it uses that and that pumps the cerebral spinal fluid around as well.

Dr. Shannon (13:32.717)
And it's, there's also, it's kind of like this primary respiratory mechanism and not to go into depth with it, but there's that inherent rhythm of the brain and the spinal cord. There's tension in the dura mater, and then there's the motion of the cranial bones and the sacrum. So kind of think of how that rib cage expands as you breathe. It's a little bit like that as well too. So this is a little bit of the anatomy lesson. Really, really quickly, not to overwhelm, but I just hope you understand like all of those little.

connection points and how when I say everything in the body is connected, it really is. It actually goes all the way down to your toe, but we're not even going to go that far. It's connected to the toe. I don't know. Should I stop? No.

Rachael Hutchins (14:14.974)
Girl, your wealth of knowledge is like incredible and I love it. And I, the way you just like went through, there's a lot there, right? And I'm sure each of those, you could continue down talking with you made it very understandable and simple. I do have to, I was thinking in my head, I was like, I think I'm gonna give a little bit of a podcaster tip and.

Dr. Shannon (14:27.438)
There's a lot more to it.

Dr. Shannon (14:32.685)
You want to go back? Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (14:37.904)
A lot of people who listen to podcasts all the time will listen to like on one and a quarter or one and a half speed. I don't know if you do. I'll listen to podcasts on a higher speed so I can kind of get through more because I love listening to podcasts. But here's my my tip. People need to go back and start that over and listen on like half speed.

Dr. Shannon (14:56.013)
I know. I am from the South, but sometimes I don't talk like I'm from the South. Yes. Maybe take some notes.

Rachael Hutchins (15:01.886)
No, no. Well, and just so you people can take it all in and like really and like take some notes because that's super, super cool. So.

Dr. Shannon (15:11.757)
But we'll go back and touch on it when we go into, okay, what are the implications for pregnancy and birth now? And what does it look like if you have cranial work done? What does it look like if you have chiropractic work done? So I'll go back and touch on those things too. I know, I hope I didn't go too quickly with it, but, and it's so much more to it. Yeah, yeah, there's so much more to it.

Rachael Hutchins (15:23.934)
course. No, no, no. I thought you kept it as simple as you could. Yeah. No, because like you said, like, and I get in these like conversations when I'm talking about birth of like, I can't usually just talk about one element of either pregnancy or birth without elaborating on something else so that people can get the whole picture. So no, you, you got it. Like, I can't talk about this without talking about this because it's all connected.

Dr. Shannon (15:38.187)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (15:45.229)
You gotta have the whole picture.

Dr. Shannon (15:50.573)
It's all connected. And isn't it just when you look at this and you think of this, I can't help but be in awe and wonder of like how we are made and just this like beautiful, amazing design. So I hope too, I hope it gives you a little bit of honor for your body. Like, holy crap, this is really, really cool. I am so beautifully, wonderfully made. And now we can get into, okay, what can I do to help all of this function better in the body?

Rachael Hutchins (16:00.208)
Right, right.

Rachael Hutchins (16:07.43)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (16:12.766)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (16:19.501)
Because again, that's what I, and I have people in the office and I'm like, yeah, I want you to feel better, but I want you to function better. Because when you're functioning better, ultimately you're gonna feel better, things are moving better. Everything is connected in the body. There's this also thing of like tensegrity. I remember learning this in school and they had these like little, I don't know how to describe it. It had like little wooden balls and wooden sticks and they were all connected and you're like, you move it and it all moves. Like every piece and part moves.

Rachael Hutchins (16:19.612)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (16:44.973)
But yet there's tension. It can also stand. It has structure and it has stability. So there's that too. But again, when you move and you've got an irregular bite and the right side of the jaw doesn't open all the way, well then that's again connected to the nerve supply there, to the muscles in the neck, to the muscles in the back and on the front as well too. And everything down into that pelvis and sacrum. And now we have...

Rachael Hutchins (16:45.087)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (17:14.829)
right hip pain maybe, you know, or something along those lines. Chicken or the egg.

Rachael Hutchins (17:18.11)
Right. But everyone wants to go directly to the source of the pain, like wherever it's signaling is like, well, let's fix that. And if we're not getting results quickly, typically we might go to like medication or pharmacology to help us because it's not feeling better. But when it's like, well, looking at that whole system, that's why working with practitioners like yourself can be so beneficial.

Dr. Shannon (17:21.965)
source of the pain.

Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (17:47.422)
And I hate, I don't ever want to discourage not going to the doctor. It's just our current model doesn't support that holistic functional approach of the hip bones connected to the leg bone and all of that. That it's all connected and because I don't really know why it is the way it is. That's maybe a conversation for another day, but it's like, there are roles for them, but I have found even through my own personal experience and through coaching so many people through pregnancy and birth of like,

Dr. Shannon (17:47.605)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (17:52.429)
Definitely.

Dr. Shannon (18:01.079)
Everything's connected.

Dr. Shannon (18:09.997)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (18:17.662)
when you could work with practitioners who look at the whole, like for me, it was like pelvic floor therapist and chiropractor put together was like my, I've had the greatest success with recovery and like really, cause I struggle with chronic tension and chronic pain. Um, and I've been able to resolve a lot of that, but it manifested in the jaw and then in my back and my sacrum.

Dr. Shannon (18:20.875)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (18:25.557)
Mm -hmm. They both tend to look at the hole. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (18:32.779)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (18:43.093)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (18:45.15)
my pelvic floor and so working with certain modalities and certain treatments that we'll talk about, but it was like, it wasn't a quick fix. And and, and.

Dr. Shannon (18:54.605)
No, yeah, you've got some unwinding. I use that a lot in the office. We've got to unwind some things because it's been wound up for a minute. And you know, like a swing, right? And you spin in the swing and you're all like kind of twisting and wound up. Well, it's not just one little twist and you're completely done. So there's a process to it. But I'm glad you mentioned that because the next thing I wanted to say was there's this guy. Oh, I should know this. I feel like his name is either Perry or Terry. He's called Stop Chasing Pain.

Rachael Hutchins (19:01.15)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (19:09.35)
No.

Dr. Shannon (19:23.893)
Instagram I'm pretty sure he's a chiropractor or he's like that's where his original training is but he has all of this information he is so in tune with the lymphatic system and how important it is and he has all these little Educational classes that he offers is called lymph mojo and it'll be all different parts of the body, but he always says that no system works alone no part of the body works alone and

Rachael Hutchins (19:29.982)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (19:34.972)
Mmm.

Rachael Hutchins (19:47.452)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (19:48.557)
I think it's important to know that. So yes, we do need specialist doctors in certain areas, but again too, that's why side effects on medication is gonna say, well, it can cause this whole range of things ranging from issues with your heart to issues with your muscles to issues with your kidney, like it's all connected, right? So that's one way to look at it as well too. So there.

Rachael Hutchins (20:00.252)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (20:04.956)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (20:12.493)
There's a couple, like what to look for. I mean, this does make sense. Like how to tell if you're clenched your jaw. Well, do you have jaw pain? Okay, that's a little bit of it, but looking at, there can be jaw tension. You can clench your teeth. Sometimes dentists will tell you, when you go and be like, do you grind your teeth? Do you clench your teeth? And you may not have any jaw pain, right?

Rachael Hutchins (20:32.766)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (20:39.757)
but you may be clenching, your dentist may notice, and you may actually already have low back or pelvic pain, and it's just kind of, you're just relating it to the pelvic and low back pain. Maybe there's a little bit of that jaw connection there as well too. So again, you don't necessarily have to have jaw pain for there to be an issue, but...

Rachael Hutchins (20:46.78)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:03.693)
Grinding your teeth is one aspect of knowing, my last one was stress on this list. Tension headaches, so when you do clench your jaw, you are engaging and sometimes you can even feel that headache up along the temples where those masseter muscles come down. That can also indicate we've got some jaw tension there. Pelvic floor tension, we've had several.

Rachael Hutchins (21:28.636)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (21:32.845)
We had several pelvic floor PTs. I feel like we had at least two because we had Brandy and we had Tina. And I know they talked a lot about pelvic floor and how, what is the pelvic floor and what happens if there's tension. You can have hypertonic muscles, hypotonic muscles. So you can have too tight or too weak of pelvic floor as well. So typically if you've got the jaw tension, I think you're going to have more of a tightness in the pelvic floor. But,

Rachael Hutchins (21:36.476)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (21:43.868)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (21:57.342)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (22:01.662)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (22:02.295)
That's something to look at. And so you can have a whole myriad of things as far as pelvic floor pain. You can have pain with sex. You can have incontinence. This could be before pregnancy. This could be your second pregnancy, you know, like postpartum aspects of things, like not to go into the whole gamut of all the pelvic issues that you can have. But it can also be low back because remember that's also pelvis area as well too. Like that's all connected. And then stress. I mean, a lot of times you clench the jaw.

Rachael Hutchins (22:27.804)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (22:32.109)
with stress. So stress, that's why I put that like at the end. Do you have any stress? I know. I know. I always ask like, how do we adapt to it? Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (22:33.662)
Mm -hmm stress. Are you feeling stressed? That question is always like, well, yeah. But it's how are we, what are we doing to cope with that stress? And that's that. Yeah. And everyone has their ways and that's why just being aware of how you're handling stress and then figuring out the ways of how to like minimize, reduce, you know, cause we're all going to have stress. So no.

Dr. Shannon (23:01.069)
You're not gonna get rid of it.

Rachael Hutchins (23:03.646)
Like it's how we, how are we setting ourselves up for, you know, getting through our days and our lives, acknowledging and honoring what our body needs. And a lot of those, those healthy habits that you hear people talk about, but they are tried and true is like sleep, good quality sleep surrounded by good sleep routines on both sides and good hydration and physical activity and you know, just eating.

Dr. Shannon (23:06.443)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:16.075)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:23.531)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (23:33.886)
well as well as you can, you know, and just like trying to listen to your body and your responses to certain situations and giving yourself ways to cope in a healthy way so that things don't build up over time. I just think stress is one of those things. It's important to acknowledge, but not like say that don't be stressed because.

Dr. Shannon (23:34.283)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:41.419)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:48.725)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:56.045)
Yeah, no, I want you to adapt to the stressor. I say that a lot in the office too, because you're going to have stress. And stress can be good. I mean, that's how we build muscle, you know? You stress, there's you stress, you know? But there's that chronic level of fatigue when we are at a heightened state of adrenaline and cortisol that we don't necessarily need to stay there. And that's when we're in that sympathetic mode. There's that disconnect in the nervous system.

Rachael Hutchins (24:08.166)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:25.479)
and we get stuck there and we think we're in fight or flight all the time. We're not allowing ourselves to rest as well. So I just kind of threw stress in there. I was like, you probably, if you guys dress, you probably have some tension, you know.

Rachael Hutchins (24:34.27)
Yeah, no, it's important.

But it's all about acknowledging and honoring and setting up some, some systems in your life that help to mitigate that. And I just gave a few examples, but I think it's worth spending time on so that we can, we talk about this a lot with our moms who are expecting and their families as far as like stress is inevitable, but like, how are you, man, how are you handling it? How's it making you feel? How are you sleeping? How are you eating? How are you? What are, I don't know what your hydration level is like because we know.

Dr. Shannon (24:40.235)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:48.203)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:00.589)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:05.63)
that if we, especially during with the pregnant body, getting into a heightened state of stress has lots of downsides and potential negative consequences. So we really want to make sure during pregnancy, so we're talking about this early and often with our clients, like everything I just said, so that when it comes time for labor to start, like all of the pathways are open because cortisol, cortisol can actually do two things, which is our stress hormone, right? It can actually trigger preterm labor or it can,

Dr. Shannon (25:25.773)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:31.221)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (25:35.342)
prevent labor from progressing. And we use actually, cortisol is actually important in labor, keeps our senses heightened, helps us actually, it's important. And then when it comes to get baby out, it's time to deliver, we need that adrenaline up. So it serves roles, but.

Dr. Shannon (25:44.141)
It's important.

Dr. Shannon (25:54.539)
Mm -hmm, but it needs to be like turned on and off at the right like the little light switch It needs to be on but it needs to be on and off when it needs to be off not just like Steady state so that's the let's a segue into a little bit of like implications if we have this Pelvic tension during birth, but I'm also gonna say if we have this pelvic slash jaw tension during birth sometimes

Rachael Hutchins (26:03.71)
Right, right.

Rachael Hutchins (26:20.188)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (26:22.765)
that stress, what we just talked about, can lead to, I know for me with my first birth, there was stress and there was fear and that led to my inability to really surrender to the birth process. And I think that's big for a lot of first time moms. I think that's big for maybe second time moms if you are hoping for a different birth experience than first time around. And if it wasn't ideal, then it's like there's a lot of pressure on, there's a lot of stress around that. So,

Rachael Hutchins (26:32.998)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (26:47.358)
Mm -hmm. A lot of stress around that. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (26:52.269)
But then it doesn't even matter because birth is unpredictable anyway. So it's, you know, each birth is so different. So it's very, it makes sense that you, that there is the stress and the fear and how that can lead you to not being able to surgery as much. But that's that cortisol aspect of things. That's that tension in the jaw, tension in the pelvis. And if we have so much tension in the pelvis and we can't really like let it go, you know, you can't really relax it.

Rachael Hutchins (27:16.636)
Mm -hmm. Well, and I think a lot of people have like in their mind a mindset of surrender or like an intentionality around approaching the birth with surrender and less tension, but then their body is holding some tension. Like we have that subconscious situation where, you know, underlying fears and underlying stress and doubt and unknown are there.

Dr. Shannon (27:26.859)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (27:34.477)
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (27:44.926)
And so that's why, even if the mind is like, if you're outwardly like, yeah, I'm good. I'm feeling good. I'm excited. I'm surrendering all the things we still encouraged, like checking in with your body. And obviously we encourage like things like heart rate care, pelvic floor therapy, massage therapy, because that's also releasing tension in all the right ways, but also tuning in with yourself and doing like breath work and movement to pay attention to where you're holding stress. Like we'll give examples of like in your day to day life.

Dr. Shannon (27:56.397)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (28:14.654)
when you are exposed or feeling stressed by work, by traffic, by your, if you have other children or a fight with your spouse, like wherever you have tension in your life or stress, like if you can try to be aware enough to take a minute and be like, where am I holding my tension when I'm actually experiencing this external tension?

And is it in my shoulders? Is it in my jaw? Is it in my pelvic floor? And even though they're all connected, if we can kind of just see like, oh, I'm holding it there or do that active, like tension and release of those areas, like actively clench and then release and actively like shrug your shoulders and then let them go actively clench your pelvic floor and then let it go. Like that's this like reset because in labor, like you can have this like wash and repeat thing that has to happen. This wave like pattern of where tension will come and we have to be able to.

Dr. Shannon (28:38.765)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (28:48.683)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (28:55.339)
Thank you.

Rachael Hutchins (29:08.598)
acknowledge it and then release it over and over again. And it's not just like, okay, I've learned about birth. I have a doula. I've got this plan. Go. You have to be like practicing that release of the tension of where you're holding stress starting like as soon as you can in life. I mean, preconception, pregnancy, labor, and then it serves you that practice serves you in postpartum too, because we all know that comes with stress too.

Dr. Shannon (29:13.038)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (29:21.311)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (29:39.213)
Exactly. Everything you just said. I love it. Because we're going to go into that in a minute too, like the ways and what to do. Okay, if we've got that tension here and you touch so beautifully on like so much of that and why. And then the practice aspect of things. Because this is why childbirth education is so important as well too. This is why labor support and having a doula is so important as well too to be like, hey, remember, remember you've learned this, we've talked about this.

Rachael Hutchins (30:00.476)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:02.477)
go back to your birth affirmations, listen to the music that you've practiced during your pregnancy so that you now have ingrained that response in your body of peace and calm. So you've got to train yourself just like you're doing a race or something. You've got to train yourself to have that response. It's really difficult, I mean, but it's worth it because if we do have that stress and we do have that fear and then the birth pains come in and we're losing our coping mechanisms or and we're having a hard time surrendering,

Rachael Hutchins (30:06.182)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (30:13.276)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (30:19.868)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (30:32.173)
that's what can lead to that prolonged labor. And so not all the time, but in one instance of it, if we're looking at jaw and pelvis connection, where we're holding the tension in the body, then, and also, I mean, you got to implicate vagus nerve here because that's, I feel like that's like a, like your safe nerve. Like that's your, when you can get into that parasympathetic state and you can stay calm,

Rachael Hutchins (30:39.774)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (31:01.293)
then it allows those hormones to flow freely. It allows you to receive a situation and plan that response in a better way. It allows you to surrender a little bit more and you feel safe. And I sometimes feel like if vagus nerve is activated, we'll go into those ways in a minute again on how to do that. But I do want to mention Iname because I feel like in a lot of...

childbirth education or just childbirth in general, she comes up and I don't know that she, I'm not going to say she was the first one to mention like, oh, relaxing the job, but I know a lot gets traced back to her as far as like saying, I'm sure it's like a midwifery aspect of that's when I first heard about it. Well, obviously in school, but like when setting up my prenatal practice and working with midwives and then hearing midwives say that when they're working with moms and they're,

Rachael Hutchins (31:34.174)
you

Dr. Shannon (31:58.605)
in labor that they would have them, if they're wanting to squat, well, let's work on relaxing the jaw because sometimes it's also hard to, it's like if you focus so much on that area, like, okay, the pelvic floor is tight, baby's not coming down, there's a lot of tension there, it's hard to be like, okay, and release the tension. You got contractions going on, you got hormones, you got everything, but if you can say, okay, I want you to clench the jaw and I want you to relax it.

Rachael Hutchins (32:17.788)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (32:24.525)
and I want you to clench and I want you to relax because now I want you to know what the tension feels like and now I want you to know what the relaxation feels like. Then I want you to stay with that relaxation state and focus on that. And so when you bring that focus elsewhere, that's like childbirth education with the pain coping mechanisms, squeezing the combs, ice cubes, those type of things. It diverts some of that attention. You can focus elsewhere and really give in to that surrender a little bit more.

Rachael Hutchins (32:25.02)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:28.742)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:37.478)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (32:51.654)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Absolutely. You nailed it. Yeah. And Ina May Gaskin, yeah, is very well known for that. But I believe since midwifery has been around for thousands of years that it's it's the idea has been has been there, but it's like not been as like in the in the education component. But yeah, I mean, we say like, like open, open mouth, relaxed jaw is an open cervix and relaxed pelvic floor. So like, you know, those low.

Dr. Shannon (32:53.485)
is one aspect of it.

Dr. Shannon (33:00.205)
It's probably Grand Midwives. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:09.835)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:17.741)
and envision that, you know? Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (33:19.166)
those low moaning sounds with your jaw, like if you're moaning and sighing and that mooing sound, your jaw is open and relaxed and vibrating, releasing tension, and that correlates to the pelvic floor and the cervix, just like what you're saying. And so that's kind of how we simplify it, is like open jaw, relaxed jaw, is open cervix, relaxed pelvic floor, and we need both of those to occur. So.

Dr. Shannon (33:27.243)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:31.085)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:35.381)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (33:42.029)
And then ohms and the sounds, that activates vagus nerve. So then that totally turns you into that calming aspect of things. So that goes in line with what we were talking about. So now segueing into what to do about jaw and pelvic floor tension. And so you and I both mentioned it as far as, and I'll do this with my kids.

Rachael Hutchins (33:45.894)
Mm -hmm, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (33:53.212)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:02.846)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:08.557)
before bed, we'll go through like, do like a little body scan and I'll have them like, clench their hands and relax and clench and relax and we'll move along all the major like muscle groups that you can, you know, can you bring all the tension to that area and then can you let it all go? Because that does train the body to say like, okay, this is what it feels like to let that tension go.

Rachael Hutchins (34:16.446)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:25.438)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:31.437)
I mean, I think that's what you have to know. You have to know a little bit about what that tension feels like before you can be like, well, yeah, I let it go. I don't know if it feels, am I tense? I don't know, am I tense? Your shoulders are up by your ear. Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (34:31.58)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (34:37.95)
Cause you, I think people don't know they're tense or like the obvious things might be tense, but there's other parts of your body that might be tense that you don't, excuse me, you don't know until you've done that exercise. So this week, maybe you call it this, but the body scan. And so we teach about this in our childbirth education class, like for partners to learn how to do with their wives or spouses or, you know, the pregnant person during pregnancy is to start the body scan early and often.

Dr. Shannon (34:47.787)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (34:53.717)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (35:07.134)
And that's like getting into a, like before you go to bed or first thing in the morning, but a lot of times before you go to bed is better and doing what you're saying, but having the partner sort of walk them through like, like you do for your boys, like be that guide for them. Cause having someone else do it can just be a little bit more relaxing and practicing that it's going to help you have a better night's sleep. And then once you're in labor and you're especially early labor, when we really are trying to prevent that stress from building up the partner, it's a good time. We're like partner hop back in and.

Dr. Shannon (35:10.379)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:18.347)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:22.763)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (35:36.254)
when you guys are beginning to take a nap or rest, do the body scan and use your hands. If a physical touch is comforting to her, put your hands on her head and bring attention there and put your hands on her jaw and on your shoulders and on her hips all the way down. And so we love that tool. And I think it's highly, highly beneficial to help release as much tension. And it's a wash and repeat.

Dr. Shannon (35:41.739)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:55.423)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (35:59.819)
They make you feel safe. You feel that helps with that safety feeling, that comfort feeling. Mm hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (36:01.894)
Mm -hmm. Mm. Well, as you're lowering your stress levels, you're not fearing your surroundings as much, right? So you feel just overall safer.

Dr. Shannon (36:10.573)
Yoga is another way to help with that tension. And even in some yoga classes, they will, and some that I've done and some of the instructors I've used will do things where you'll do some breath work in it, because that's the next thing we're going to talk about. But you feel the tension in the body. You hold the tension.

and then you either pulse or you relax it and you can almost sometimes yoga will do body scans as well too. So yoga can be something that something that you can take a class like throughout, you know, pregnancy, modifying the moves. Oh, we had the episode with Julie Hawkins all about prenatal and postpartum yoga. I am blanking on what episode number that is. I'm going to have to write that down because...

Rachael Hutchins (36:58.044)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (37:05.901)
I want to go back and put that in the show notes here. But that's another way to calm the body down and kind of involve like vagus nerve as well. So to bring the tension in the cranium and the sacrum to help that go away.

Rachael Hutchins (37:16.318)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (37:27.806)
And I think the yoga practice mixed in, if you are especially like a cross fitter or a weightlifter or really like doing, even if you're doing like bar or dance, like all of those are wonderful and running, like all of these are wonderful, but bringing yoga into your practice, into your routine. So that means maybe doing one of...

Dr. Shannon (37:40.127)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (37:53.886)
one less of the other workout like implementing yoga, especially during pregnancy. And then I really think postpartum too. I think that's essential for ensuring that pelvic floor is softening and lengthening.

Dr. Shannon (38:03.051)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:08.365)
Right. I'm glad you said softening because those other sports that we mentioned, they are a little bit more intense, right? So they may not focus so much on relaxing. That's a little bit more of heavy lifting or engaging those muscles. It's a lot more engagement. And so that's perfect to have something that softens, that elongates, that counterbalances that tension there. So yeah, it's great to do those things. We definitely want you to do those things, but it is nice to have that counterbalance.

Rachael Hutchins (38:15.878)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (38:27.012)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (38:35.294)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (38:38.155)
I'm glad you mentioned that.

Rachael Hutchins (38:38.942)
Yes, highly recommended.

Dr. Shannon (38:41.181)
Breath work, we talked about this. I did do an episode, episode 61, Finding Your Breath, and that was a bunch of different little exercises you can do, like breathing exercises. And then we went a little bit more into like vagus nerve and the different parts of the nervous system as well there too. So, but this is important and something that you...

it would be good to work on those breathing exercises throughout pregnancy so that when you get to labor and birth that you have practiced them and you know what works for you. Because I think in that episode two I mentioned that there's one breathing exercise and I tell people about it, I can't stand it. I feel like it causes me anxiety, probably because I haven't done it enough, but I don't like it. So if I don't like that, then that would not be the one that I choose. But if I'm not practicing while I'm pregnant and I go into like, you know,

I'm getting ready to have a baby and I'm like, oh, I'm trying to do this box breathing and this is just causing me to hyperventilate more. So practicing it, practice during pregnancy.

Rachael Hutchins (39:43.262)
Yeah, you have to practice. I mean, you can't say it enough. We say this also with our clients and in childbirth education because we feel like, and I say we, I work in partnership with my doula partner, Hannah. So we're like one, but we.

Dr. Shannon (39:57.933)
You made it sound like, no, it's like, we the doulas feel like that's what I... I know.

Rachael Hutchins (40:01.414)
We the doulas, I mean, I don't want to speak for all doulas, but in my practice, we say that your breath is your greatest tool in pregnancy and birth and postpartum because you need it when you lack and sleep and breastfeeding your baby and all of that. But especially during labor, like there are lots of tools and people try to have like all these like things prepared for birth. They want to know the positions and they want to know.

Dr. Shannon (40:12.845)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (40:30.056)
the tools, the peanut ball, the birth ball, the squat bar, the squat stool, the like all these things they can use during labor which are all helpful. I'm not saying they're not but your breath is always with you wherever you are, whatever you're facing and can serve you. So the breath we feel like is the best number one tool you should be focusing on versus trying to gather all these external things. It's internal and that breath work.

Dr. Shannon (40:42.261)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (40:54.315)
Mm -hmm. Internal. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (40:57.95)
is the best and we highly encourage it. We say the same thing about practice. Um, and we feel like, and I think you agree, like the breath work is helping also reset your parasympathetic nervous system. And there are definitely certain types of breath work that are going to help reset you if you're going through moments of stress. So like we talk about resetting the parasympathetic nervous system. Like if you're having a hospital birth and you're going through, after you go through triage, like.

Dr. Shannon (41:09.771)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (41:25.278)
You've been laboring at home, you've been doing your thing in your own zone, things are going well. But as you're transitioning to the hospital and going through triage, like stress is going to come up, tension is going to come up. Maybe you're clenching your jaw, maybe you're holding things in differently. So when you get into your labor delivery room, that's a great time to do some of these breath work exercises that you share about and kind of thinking about resetting your person, that nervous system to bring the cortisol levels down back to where you were.

Dr. Shannon (41:25.781)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (41:35.693)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (41:51.883)
Mm -hmm. I'm so glad you mentioned that because like you you always have that breath with you I don't want to necessarily say that it's something that you can control but that's like that's where some of that that piece can come from what they're like, okay, I Can control my response to this and I can use my breath to help with that as well, too I always feel like I feel like I've had that said this before

and the Wizard of Oz, Glinda the Good Witch, didn't she say something to Dorothy about like, you've had the power all along, like it's in you, like you've had that, you know, yeah, so it's the same thing. And then so, gosh, that could be paralleled to so many people that come in and they're in pain and all of these things. And I'm like, you have so much power within you, you know, like you have all the healing capabilities. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (42:20.03)
It's in you.

Rachael Hutchins (42:31.772)
Mm -hmm. Well, we look outside of us for answers first for whatever reason that's our society and culture versus trusting if we go inward. But sometimes that's scary and complicated and hard and difficult to access. But usually what we need is inside of us. But that takes going slow, being intentional, you know, knowing it'll be uncomfortable because you mentioned this a moment ago too that I wanted to add on to as far as like the breath work like our normal.

Dr. Shannon (42:41.281)
Yeah, if we go in.

Dr. Shannon (42:51.519)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (43:00.446)
Regular breathing is fine. That doesn't usually cause as much stress But when you're doing this like focus type of breath work It might feel uncomfortable at first or actually it more most likely will feel uncomfortable at first and maybe it makes you feel a little bit more anxious at first or a little bit more tense like when we do the box breathing and we talk about that I always give my own self Like I have to fight myself when I'm doing the box breathing trying to relax before going to bed Like four and six out four and six out or whatever I'm doing. I

Dr. Shannon (43:22.709)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (43:30.206)
Um, it makes me irritated. Like the first breath, Emma, this isn't working. This isn't for me. I don't have time for this. Whatever. Like I get flooded with all these, I like, like, you don't need to be doing this. And I'm like, and I do this regularly, right? But by breath, like five, cause I decide I'm committed to the practice. I start feeling better. And then by 10, I'm like,

Dr. Shannon (43:34.827)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (43:50.165)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (43:54.189)
Not a one and done. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. You don't even realize it. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (43:59.934)
you don't even realize it and like Hannah gives her example and she says it takes her to getting to 10 really before it starts feeling better but then the benefit down the road is so worth it so knowing that when you do it it might initially create some discomfort and that that's part of the process.

Dr. Shannon (44:07.595)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (44:16.277)
Mm -hmm It is part of the process now you mentioned and we talked a little bit about have you know that that it can be scary going internal and having and looking and trying to navigate that internal aspect of things so and I kind of wrote my note of like oh you have the power within you but that's how and I just did an interview with another chiropractor dr. Twyla I don't know when it's gonna come out. It'll be out before this episode, but um, I

She talks so much too and I loved it when we talk about that with chiropractic care, it's not so much the chiropractor doing the work, it's just we facilitate healing. Like it allows the body to heal itself and to function optimally. So that's my segue into chiropractic care as it relates to jaw and pelvic floor tension. There are multiple layers and there's gonna be multiple layers too with pelvic floor PT with this because...

Rachael Hutchins (44:57.02)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (45:08.542)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:15.799)
It's not just like a cervical adjustment and that impacts just one area. Like it's that whole body function. It's that whole body looking at things. So if I'm thinking pregnancy related and really focusing on that, it's obviously Webster technique. We've talked about it multiple times in the show. There's lots of episodes on it. I don't even know which ones, but it's that pelvis and sacral analysis and adjustment.

Rachael Hutchins (45:27.646)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (45:45.293)
to help restore the bio -neuro -mechanical function. And so it's not just the alignment of the pelvis, but also the nerve supply going to the pelvis and the uterus as well. So all of that. And when we can balance that, it balanced the ligaments of how the uterus is in the body and it can allow for optimal fetal positioning there. And when we have that alignment, pelvis is hopefully able to open better and you're able to relax better.

Rachael Hutchins (45:49.884)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (45:54.886)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (46:14.565)
more evenly for labor and birth but There's bone muscle ligament we work on on the patient posterior side and anterior side but There it's full body as well. So I mean everybody if you're Webster trained Yes, you're focusing on the specifics there But then if you're going to another chiropractor that practices full spine that I'm also looking at the thoracic spine and I'm also looking at the cervical spine because that's

Rachael Hutchins (46:14.59)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (46:43.885)
I mean, everything is connected, right? So remember that. That's where I want to go back to is remember it's all connected as well too, because I will do some hypoglossal release, so like tongue muscle release, so right underneath the jaw. And you can actually do it to yourself as well. So you'll just take a finger to press on and you're pressing like inferior to superior underneath your jaw, like right at what we call that mental protuberance. And so you can press there.

Rachael Hutchins (46:45.468)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:11.981)
And it's again, I liken it to a little bit of like, okay, do you feel that tension? Okay, release it, let it go. And you'll be like, whoa, it's amazing to feel the tongue holds a lot of tension. The tongue holds a lot of tension because it's like actively engaged when it's resting, we want it up on the roof of the mouth. And so when we can press in there and you can feel it, okay, okay, is there a trigger point? What's going on here? Then you can kind of release that as well. So again, not every...

Rachael Hutchins (47:17.574)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (47:21.862)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (47:38.662)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (47:40.973)
I'm just kind of going over the specifics of some of the stuff that I do in the office. But then there is the cranial work as well. So there is definitely cranial sacral therapists out there. There are chiropractors that are trained in it. There are doctors of osteopathy that are trained in it. Those tend to be the two, I guess, sometimes I know some nurses that have received extra training. They usually have some sort of biological medical background.

Rachael Hutchins (48:07.356)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (48:07.533)
and then, or even massage therapist as well, again, to that anatomical background. So there's different trainings within craniosacral therapy, but chiropractors can receive that training as well. And having done that work, do cranial work on babies, we've talked about that with Dr. Martin Rosen, but you can also do cranial work on adults as well too. And it is very, very impactful. There's certain cranial touch points that are used.

and there really is a feeling for that rhythm. So remember I talked about that the craniosacral pump, that primary respiratory mechanism, that intrinsic rhythm of the cranial bones connected to the sacrum and how the sacrum moves. And so when you walk, this is why movement is so important, you are moving the hips and the pelvis, the sacrum is moving and it does this like.

Nutation and counter -nutation motion. So it's really it's it's not like a flexion extension. It's not internal and external rotation It's this weird like figure eight kind of motion and movement That it does with the bones of the pelvis and then in the skull Like I said, you've got that sphenoid bone and it does its own special movement as well again, not talking big motions and movements, but a lot of times you're feeling for That pulsation the rhythm

Rachael Hutchins (49:26.14)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (49:32.183)
That's really what it boils down to, that rhythm. There's a specific rhythm that's supposed to be with it. And so cranial therapy can be really, really helpful during pregnancy, not only for, especially if someone's got severe pelvic pain, I may not be doing more physical adjustments. It might be using an instrument. And so that's a little bit more of a lighter technique, more of what we call tonal technique. But then cranial work can do wonders for that.

Rachael Hutchins (49:32.798)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (49:49.182)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:00.156)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (50:01.193)
Even if we're not touching the sacrum as well. So and to reiterate the fact that like a lot of times where you're feeling the pain is not necessarily Where the problem is it's just where you're feeling it right then doesn't mean we won't address that and it doesn't mean yeah like no like this the elbow hurts because the elbow got hit like or something along those lines like this difference than that, but Everything is connected in in the body there. And so that's when I'm

Rachael Hutchins (50:11.932)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:22.246)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (50:29.581)
that cranial work can play a big role. Again, every office is different. And I talk a little bit, I don't know if I talked about this, but I did like a hot take on chiropractic care, how it's only for pain and fetal malposition. So it's episode 122. I touched briefly on this, on like the external factors of care and how it can impact the nervous system and how you're processing stressors in your world and adapting. And I do still have plans to have someone else come on and really go through the intricacies of.

Rachael Hutchins (50:31.708)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (50:54.588)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (50:59.501)
the vagus nerve a little bit more in depth and better than what I've done. So that will be coming as well too. But that's what I look at with care. Posture impacts vagus nerve, cervical adjustments can impact vagus nerve, which can bring calming effect. Cranial work also can impact vagus nerve, then it's going to impact trigeminal nerve, all of your cranial nerves. Posture, we talked about that? I don't know. It can impact a lot. That's what I'm looking at with care.

Rachael Hutchins (51:08.766)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (51:25.982)
Yeah. No, it's incredibly beneficial. We highly recommend it to all of our, our patients and clients and definitely seeing that Webster train certified practitioner and then cranial, you know, if you're doing the cranial therapy that I know that's like an added thing, but just if you're, even if you're not pregnant, but if you're pregnant expecting just, I hope you hear that.

you know, your body is going through a major event and experiencing so many things and having chiropractic care along the way can just help support the entire system that's not just about fixing low back pain. So thank you for elaborating on that and always enlightening us with the benefits of chiropractic care. I did want to add something that you mentioned earlier about fascia. So as a doula, birth doula fascia,

Dr. Shannon (52:04.961)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:13.675)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (52:19.614)
that connective tissue that you touched on earlier that holds tension. Like you said, holds tension. I was like, I cannot believe I didn't add this to our outline, but doing practices to release the fascia during pregnancy can help tremendously with reducing overall tension, like tension that you don't even know you have. And so things that can help release fascia, especially during pregnancy is doing like some belly sifting.

Dr. Shannon (52:23.885)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (52:31.595)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (52:47.07)
with a scarf or a robozo doing, it's called shake the apple trees. It's like when you get in a modified hands and knees and you have someone or a partner or your doula sort of shake your bum and it's creating. So that jiggle after an amount of time releases the fascia and it's not aggressive. It's like, it's very light.

Dr. Shannon (52:48.459)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:01.163)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:07.903)
Mm -hmm. No, anything with the fascia, it is light. It's not like a deep tissue massage. It's not deep motion movements. Yes. Yes. I'm glad you're mentioning that. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (53:16.19)
Yeah. So make sure you learn how to properly do it, but it can be simple. Like I did a spinning babies training back in October and really learn. Cause I've always thought like belly sifting was like the main thing to do, but that that's just one part of the body and not accessible for everyone. Um, so they taught us like doing this three part jiggle, like when someone's lying on their side and just taking your hands gently, like on the hip that's up, if they're lying down and just jiggling that hip and then moving to like the buttocks.

Dr. Shannon (53:20.917)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:29.995)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:36.181)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:41.685)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (53:46.024)
and shape, you know, gently shaking the butt and then to the sacrum and doing the vibration. It's almost like you're giving like a wave type of shake, but not aggressive and doing like a minute each and then do the other side. That's another way to, you know, communicate to the fascia, especially during labor, early labor or even pregnancy. I mean, do it during pregnancy for sure. And then it can be something you can do during labor. We can help release the fascia, which holds tension that we didn't even know we had.

Dr. Shannon (53:46.123)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (53:52.819)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (54:13.214)
and can just help, again, open more talk about like opening the pathways for labor to unfold smoothly and effectively. But I thought that was something I wanted to add that was part of this conversation.

Dr. Shannon (54:23.181)
Yes, no, that's right in line. Yeah, because there, yes, there are those things that you can do. And again, too, it doesn't have to be so like aggressive. You know, don't think of it as like, you know, like it's a very simple thing. And I guess to this episode, like, it's not just for pregnant patients or pregnant people, you know, whatever. It's like, this is where, I mean, everybody's got...

Rachael Hutchins (54:30.878)
Yeah, it's a very gentle...

Rachael Hutchins (54:43.038)
No. No.

Dr. Shannon (54:46.967)
these things like you have all of this connection whether you're pregnant or not. You have the embryological, you have the internal external anatomy of it. You've got the nerve connections. You've got cerebral spinal fluid like you have tension, you know, like it's this is yeah. So this is an episode for everybody. So for your spouse as well too.

Rachael Hutchins (54:50.972)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (54:58.686)
Yeah, no, I think it's helpful for any phase. I mean, I'm 10 years postpartum and dealing with the, the pelvic floor and jaw tension and, and something that, and these are kind of our last two points that we've touched on that can help with these L you know, with your jaw tension and pelvic floor tension and just overall tension. But that pelvic floor therapy, pelvic floor PT is great for anyone, wherever you are in your journey, pre -pregnancy, pregnancy, postpartum.

Dr. Shannon (55:06.187)
Aha.

Dr. Shannon (55:21.782)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (55:27.117)
postpartum.

Rachael Hutchins (55:28.452)
Highly highly recommend it. That type of, I mean it's everything from like your hips up to your shoulders really. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (55:36.745)
It's diaphragm, it's breathing, breath work, pelvic floor PT and breath work, and that PT's that can do that, and the dysfunctions in the breathing patterns, that's huge. Because I don't think a lot of people, I've had a lot of people not realize that their diaphragm and their breathing are directly connected to the pelvic floor. And so...

Rachael Hutchins (55:45.116)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (55:57.566)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (55:59.533)
I just, I see really good results when my moms are able to do both, when they're able to get adjusted and see a pelvic floor physical therapist as well too.

Rachael Hutchins (56:04.51)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (56:10.576)
Yeah, it's and it's not just like incontinence or it's not just like problems just like everything else But there might be some underlying things you don't even know is happening like I I was a lot of my back pain and hip lower back pain were directly related to my pelvic floor and so but we started with like a simple Learning like how to breathe how to breathe and move my diaphragm and move Yeah Yeah, like we do a simple test. I'm like sure I know how to do this and she's like

Dr. Shannon (56:13.675)
Mm -mm. Mm -mm.

Dr. Shannon (56:24.533)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (56:31.189)
Mm -hmm to retrain those movement patterns. Yes. Yeah

Rachael Hutchins (56:40.318)
You don't. So your very first assignment is to literally just practice breathing intentionally and started there. And then it was a great, you know, so, I mean, I was recommending it before my own personal experience, but it's so, it's so much more just like chiropractic care. You don't have to have something wrong. Like we encourage those, like go get aligned with a pelvic floor therapist, go at least once during pregnancy. Um, and then, um, you're set up with them for postpartum. So you can.

Dr. Shannon (56:40.589)
Yeah, I bet you do.

Dr. Shannon (56:45.157)
Practice breathing. Uh huh.

Dr. Shannon (56:54.091)
Yeah.

Yes.

Rachael Hutchins (57:07.966)
They can get you started on gentle movement, gentle exercises, healing your pelvic floor properly so that you can return to full functioning and full whole health after you've given birth so that you're not trapped in this. Oh, well, I just gave birth. So I have all, you know, I have these pains or I have these incontinence or whatever, like they can really help mitigate all that. Um, and another thing that I learned about for jaw tension, and I'm sure you share this with your clients too, but facial cupping. So like.

Dr. Shannon (57:23.947)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:35.253)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (57:36.254)
I was struggling so with TMJ, it really inflamed TMJ and went to the dentist first and their only solution was like a $4 ,000 Invisalign thing, which I might need because my bite is off. But I was like, but I'm in like a level nine pain. And so this Invisalign isn't like what I needed in that moment.

Dr. Shannon (57:39.125)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:48.341)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:53.429)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (57:58.443)
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins (58:05.438)
So I might revisit that, but they didn't offer any nothing else. And I wasn't looking for medicine, but like job exercises. I mean, this facial cupping that I learned about from my chiropractor, I go up to Dr. Alex Howell and you know, she was working with me and she was like, have you tried facial cupping? And I was like, facial what? And there's like these little suction cups. I bought them off Amazon. And after I washed my face at night, I just, I, it just is like,

Dr. Shannon (58:05.493)
Mm -hmm.

anything else. I know.

Dr. Shannon (58:14.123)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (58:26.635)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (58:31.981)
and you can move, it's like a little bit, yes, you can keep them there and do it, you can, I've had it adjust or massages, I was gonna mention massage too, where you move it along like with the muscle as well. Gua Sha stones can be really good and I'll have people dig in, like you can open. When I'm doing jaw adjustments sometimes too, oh yeah, talk about.

Rachael Hutchins (58:53.246)
Whoo.

Dr. Shannon (58:53.677)
I mean, it doesn't take much pressure at all, at all. But I'll teach people too about like, okay, this is the direction I want you to move. This is the pressure that I want you to move. You can open and close the jaw with it. When I'm doing adjustments, sometimes it's like I need jaw open a bit. I need it closed while we do it. Yeah, I know the facial cupping.

Rachael Hutchins (58:55.804)
Uh -uh. That hurts.

Rachael Hutchins (59:06.908)
You can feel it yeah yeah but that's she assessed that on me she's like look this is where you're off and she was a little gun and try to help get it in the line and she was like it probably won't stay in line as long as you are having the tension so we got to get that tension out of there so we were doing like. In her like with my thumb like inner massage like along the top of my cheek.

Dr. Shannon (59:13.855)
Uh huh, a little activator, mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (59:25.291)
Mm -hmm. I've referred, so I have massage therapists in the area and I have, I'm thinking of patients in particular where I've referred them for internal and just head and neck and just mouth and to like release that. And then them going and speaking afterwards, they were like, this was the most magical thing ever. You don't realize. Uh -huh. So I was gonna mention massage therapy too and not just the cupping. Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (59:38.334)
Wow. Release it.

Rachael Hutchins (59:45.278)
Like I had no idea. Yeah. Like where she showed me to, yeah, so massage and the cupping. And again, all of these should be, like you should be working in conjunction with your practitioner of choice. Um, but just things to share about that again, like we're not just saying go relax. Like there are, it takes like doing some certain things to help release attention things you didn't even know were available. Um, and things that have helped us personally. So, you know,

Dr. Shannon (59:57.867)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:02.123)
Mm -mm.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:10.349)
And remember, this little bit of facial cupping, this little bit to really set tension there has, it's like the ripple effect in your body as well too. Not only is birth a ripple effect in how you are going to go into motherhood and your birth story and all of that, and we've talked about that ripple effect, but you also have the ripple effect of the things that you do to care for your body that impacts it as a whole. So it's these little things. Don't think of it as...

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:19.782)
Yeah, exactly.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:35.966)
Yes.

Dr. Shannon (01:00:38.085)
minor as minor things and give yourself credit for like, okay I'm gonna work on this and it may not seem like much but that can make a huge difference in the pain and tension in your body and the stress in your body as well, too. So just remember it's all connected. That's it.

Rachael Hutchins (01:00:52.766)
Yep. And just take it and take it one step at a time. Like we've shared a lot of information here. You might feel overwhelmed. Don't let that stop you. Like just take one thing that resonates or take one question to ask to your chiropractor or pelvic PT or whoever you're working with. Like just take one thing away and know that that will lead to the next thing. I feel like everything I know now and it's not near what I know I will know in the future, but like it's because of like one.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:01.717)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:22.008)
step led me to a person, a resource, information that then led to another thing. So when you can just see it as like I'm going to do the one next thing and that's it. That's all you got to worry about right now. So just pick one thing here and start there because I know it can feel overwhelming when someone's in pain or experiencing something and there's a lot of go do this and it's a lot that can also be paralyzing. So I don't want to create that. We always just want to offer information and options and things to think about and

Dr. Shannon (01:01:23.821)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:33.771)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:44.405)
Mm -hmm.

Rachael Hutchins (01:01:51.135)
better, deeper understanding of your body and just take one thing and go forth.

Dr. Shannon (01:01:58.157)
Exactly, one thing and go forth. I love it. And hopefully you have a better understanding of how your jaw and your pelvis are connected. Yeah, so that's the takeaway. Everything's connected to the body and just do one thing. Keep moving forward. So glad to have have you on the episode today, Rachel. This was fun. Stay tuned every Wednesday for our next episode.