Ep 118: Partner Tips: 8 ways to show your support during pregnancy, labor, and birth

Feeling seen, heard, and supported during your pregnancy can impact your emotional and physical well-being during pregnancy, labor, birth, and beyond.  Today we talk about 8 ways your partner can show up with intention and meaning.  This goes beyond just showing up to doctor’s appointments!  From being an active participant in childbirth education classes to working on the birth preferences list together, your partner knows you so intimately and having them involved can boost oxytocin, enhance your bond, and help you have an empowered birth experience.  

Resources mentioned in the show:

Ep 116: informed and shared decision making 

The birth partner

The birth hour podcast

The VBAC link podcast

Doing it at home podcast

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• 11:48 (Cont.) Ep 118: Partner Tips: 8 ways to show your support during pregnancy, labor, and birth

Transcript

Dr. Shannon:
Hello, hello, you are listening to the Align Birth podcast. You have both podcast hosts here today. And today we are chatting about another birthy topic and our birthy topic of the day is partner tips. Really looking at ways that partners can support for pregnancy, labor, and birth. So not just... during the labor and birth aspect of things, but maybe throughout the whole pregnancy as well. I think this is a good one because there might be some things in here that you weren't really aware of or like, oh, this is like a really easy way to support someone, but it can be very meaningful. So that's kind of where we wanted to go with this. This is a little bit adapted from a post that I think I had found. I know both Rachel and I follow Mommy Labor Nurse on Instagram and she's always got really fun information. She shares it in a really fun way as well and all of her little videos are cute. But I saw this and I was like, this is a really, really good topic. And so we used it as an outline and then Rachel used her wonderful outlining skills and made it very robust and super awesome. So this conversation is gonna be really, really good because we've added even more partner tips than what was in the post as well too. So. I am excited to chat with you today about it, Rachel.

Rachael Hutchins:
Hi, Dr. Shannon, as always, very excited for our conversation. Love the idea of the partner having some tangible things, very accessible things that they can do for pregnant starting in pregnancy. And I think

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
that's a good time to start because it helps build the confidence going into the birth and then the postpartum and it's like this like layered thing, right? It's not just like a switch and the more

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
you can practice supporting. Cause I think we see sometimes it's kind of normal and natural and Culturally like what we see like partners feeling a little bit like I don't know how to help or I don't know what to do It's not happening to me. I'm not the one growing the baby. I'm not the one feeding the baby You know, I'm not the one giving birth and so

Dr. Shannon:
I'm not

Rachael Hutchins:
it's

Dr. Shannon:
the one

Rachael Hutchins:
easy

Dr. Shannon:
feeling the aches and pains, right? Those type of

Rachael Hutchins:
Right.

Dr. Shannon:
things, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
So it's easy to sort of an understandable to feel

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
like I don't know what to do. So if you're listening to this, you're most likely the person giving birth or not.

Dr. Shannon:
So send this to the partner.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, share this with your partner and don't be scared to be like, hey, we can do this together. Like this is what mean a lot to me if you showed up in this way, like it's OK to be involved. It's OK to be uncertain about how to support me, but know that there's benefits in supporting me. And like. There's so much you can do to help this be an easier process. And there are many benefits to that. There's many benefits and painting that picture to your loved one, your husband, your spouse, that there are benefits to being involved, right? There are benefits to leaning in to this process. And I'll say husband because I feel like a lot of people listening probably have husbands with spouse, partner, loved one. I always have to feel like want

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
to include

Dr. Shannon:
Cover.

Rachael Hutchins:
it all, cover

Dr. Shannon:
All the bases.

Rachael Hutchins:
it all.

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
Um, they know you intimately, like giving your partner the confidence and reminding them they know you intimately like no one else. And that is a powerful tool. And the more you can be tapped into that, the more it will serve both of you. And so just, I feel like that's always a boost of confidence. And we use that phrasing, like when we're talking to partners in our client meetings and we always encourage the partners to come. You know,

Dr. Shannon:
Hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
a lot of times it's the mom reaching out, the pregnant, pregnant person, the birther, you know, they're doing a lot of the work because it's happening to them. And

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
sometimes we see really involved partners and sometimes we see not really involved partners and then everything in between. But we definitely encourage partners to come along so they can hear. You know, you and I were with this with this podcast, we're always like hearing the words like reinforcement,

Dr. Shannon:
Just listening.

Rachael Hutchins:
just listening, picking up on little things here and there, all of that can be these little seeds all along the way. But we encourage partner involvement, partner support because there are benefits. And when you have someone along this journey with you, who's tapped into you and knows you intimately and is willing to just like be present, that has many benefits, it can boost oxytocin. So that's one

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
of my favorite things I tell partners. I'm like just your presence and maybe a gentle hand on her hand, gentle hand on her shoulder, just like being near her, gives her this feeling that she's not in it alone. And it's like, it's like, gives me even like the chills just saying it. It's like that tingly feeling that you get just by having them there, that's oxytocin.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And so like I tell partners, even if you don't know what to do, if you can just sit close and maybe hold their hand or stroke their hair, just like give them a loving word or eye contact. It's going to flood their body with oxytocin and boom. What do you need? What is on my

Dr. Shannon:
What

Rachael Hutchins:
shirt?

Dr. Shannon:
do you mean? Yeah, there it is.

Rachael Hutchins:
What do you need for labor? You need oxytocin.

Dr. Shannon:
Oxytocin.

Rachael Hutchins:
If you're watching

Dr. Shannon:
You can

Rachael Hutchins:
on YouTube

Dr. Shannon:
see

Rachael Hutchins:
or

Dr. Shannon:
it on

Rachael Hutchins:
if you're

Dr. Shannon:
Rachel's

Rachael Hutchins:
not,

Dr. Shannon:
shirt.

Rachael Hutchins:
you should. My shirt

Dr. Shannon:
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins:
says oxytocin. I'm wearing my hormone shirt. It's got all the hormones, but oxytocin.

Dr. Shannon:
Oh, dox- oxytocin,

Rachael Hutchins:
So

Dr. Shannon:
endorphins. Uh,

Rachael Hutchins:
encouraging

Dr. Shannon:
I'm-

Rachael Hutchins:
partners and

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
reminding them that can help the flow of labor.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Like just their presence, just their gentle touch, just their loving kiss or eye contact helps the person feel safe. comfortable and loved and that helps birth to flow. And it

Dr. Shannon:
I'm

Rachael Hutchins:
also

Dr. Shannon:
always

Rachael Hutchins:
increase.

Dr. Shannon:
reminded of the movie Knocked Up when

Rachael Hutchins:
Uh huh.

Dr. Shannon:
Seth Rogen, you know, he gets the baby books and then they have that like earthquake or whatever that happens and Katherine Heigl is just sitting there super pregnant and she finds the books like buried in some cabinet and she's all ticked off. But then towards the end, she's starting to go into labor and he's all like, have you had your bloody show? And like he's going through all the things that he learned in

Rachael Hutchins:
that

Dr. Shannon:
the

Rachael Hutchins:
he

Dr. Shannon:
books

Rachael Hutchins:
had learned.

Dr. Shannon:
and she's like, what? Yeah. I get tickled when I think about that. Cause I'm like, it's that, that's all it really takes is you just, just being that active participant.

Rachael Hutchins:
Active participant, yes, I love that phrase too. But yeah, you have an opportunity for a really wonderful bonding experience.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
This can be, right, again, it's not just happening to your partner, they're giving birth to your child together. And

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
the more you're involved, the more you lean in, that can be a really wonderful bonding experience that will transcend. And it's like this opportunity for another layer of connection in your relationship that... I see so many partners when they go through it and they go through it with both people really involved and lovingly, like they come out stronger on the other side and you need that foundation for what you're coming into having a child.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And also partner support is a, one of the benefits is that it's your, it's another layer of advocacy

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
for you giving birth. Like if you have your partner involved and they've learned these tools, Like that's another layer of advocacy and giving birth in any setting needs. You need someone like there on your like able to speak on your behalf because a lot of times when you get into labor land, deep in labor, you're tired. It's harder to, to use the tools you've learned along the way. So if you're the only one learning all the tools and the tips and the, the things your partner's going to be

Dr. Shannon:
in

Rachael Hutchins:
left.

Dr. Shannon:
the moment, it's going to be harder to remember those things, you

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah,

Dr. Shannon:
know,

Rachael Hutchins:
so

Dr. Shannon:
for

Rachael Hutchins:
if they've

Dr. Shannon:
you.

Rachael Hutchins:
come along this journey with you, then they're going to, again, be able to be like, have you had your bloody show yet? They're going to at least know what it means.

Dr. Shannon:
Exactly.

Rachael Hutchins:
And it's not going to be so off putting. So cool.

Dr. Shannon:
Yes.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah. So just some of the benefits.

Dr. Shannon:
Yes. So what that could start with and some of the partner tips, the first one would be really having that conversation sitting down and saying like, what does support look like to you? Because sometimes too, you might feel like you are supporting and then it may not be supportive to the other person. So really checking in, asking what does that look like? for you. How and maybe you who are giving birth, you don't necessarily know, but that at least can start the conversation to say, well, I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking this or I'm thinking that or what are you scared about? What are you worried about? You know, all of those little things that can come out that again can help build that bond. But that would be, I guess, one of those first places to start is having that conversation of like, what does that support look like?

Rachael Hutchins:
What helps you feel safe from both sides? Like all of these things can come from both, like both birthing person and partner sharing, right? It's not a one

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
way street. It's both of you saying, what makes you feel safe? What makes you feel comfortable? What are the ways, well, this would be one direction, but what touches feel good to you? Like some people aren't like touchy feely people. whenever this comes up, that's something again, the partner knows, because that's a question we ask a lot. Like, do you like physical touch? Like we're still learning about the individual, but the partners always can almost always answer that for them. Right. But if there are ways you like to be touched, communicating that, like

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
it feels really good when you scratch my head. Like that's like, that's a boost their confidence that I can come in and scratch your, you know, they can come in and scratch your head and you're going to really like that or I really don't like it when you rub like friction. You know how some people will

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
rub in one spot and you're like, that's annoying, like gentle strokes feel better to me. So communicating how you like to be touched. And it might sound silly. You're like, well, we're together. We're married. I know how to touch, but it's still good to communicate

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
what I really like and then it boosts their confidence, boost the partner's confidence. What are your fears? Again, that's a two way. Both of you. What fears are you having? And I think that's really important because it gives. permission for both of you to speak. Cause a lot of times partners have fears and they don't express them.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And then sometimes they come out in the birthing space, but it's good

Dr. Shannon:
And that's

Rachael Hutchins:
to...

Dr. Shannon:
not the time

Rachael Hutchins:
That's

Dr. Shannon:
for those

Rachael Hutchins:
not

Dr. Shannon:
to

Rachael Hutchins:
the

Dr. Shannon:
come

Rachael Hutchins:
time.

Dr. Shannon:
out. And that's

Rachael Hutchins:
We need

Dr. Shannon:
when,

Rachael Hutchins:
to...

Dr. Shannon:
you know, almost all the home birth episodes that we've had on here, I think I've always asked, you know, how did your spouse or partner feel about when you said, I'm thinking about wanting to do a home birth? Like, you've got to hash that out beforehand and respect, you know, those thoughts and feelings and emotions of the partner too. But then what can you do going forward to make

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
both of you feel comfortable and confident in that birth that you prefer and that birth outcome that you would really like. Great, that touches on a lot of different, that was a little sidebar,

Rachael Hutchins:
everything,

Dr. Shannon:
but

Rachael Hutchins:
yeah, many aspects

Dr. Shannon:
that touches

Rachael Hutchins:
of

Dr. Shannon:
on

Rachael Hutchins:
life.

Dr. Shannon:
a lot of other things, but it came to mind as far as that same thing as far as what makes you feel safe. Sometimes a partner is like, I feel safer if you are in a hospital, whereas mom might be like, well, I would feel safer at home. You gotta have a conversation.

Rachael Hutchins:
And then that needs to be worked through. And so it's really important to be open to

Dr. Shannon:
But you would

Rachael Hutchins:
the

Dr. Shannon:
said...

Rachael Hutchins:
answers.

Dr. Shannon:
the partner needs to be able to say what they feel is safe as well too. I think

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah,

Dr. Shannon:
that's important.

Rachael Hutchins:
and then say, okay, well, if we're on the same page, thumbs up.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And if we're not, how can we kind of work through

Dr. Shannon:
How can

Rachael Hutchins:
it?

Dr. Shannon:
we

Rachael Hutchins:
What

Dr. Shannon:
get

Rachael Hutchins:
can

Dr. Shannon:
there?

Rachael Hutchins:
we learn each other? You know, what class can we take or what conversation can we have

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
with, you know, whatever with each other or with your midwife or whomever to help kind of work through it, to get as on the same page as possible. And we tell people that you may not always fully get on the same page,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
but getting close so that there's not tension or friction. If this comes up in labor and again, clear.

Dr. Shannon:
I'm sorry, I'm just thinking of like a speed dating scenario where when you're young and you think what's important, you know, like, but when you're thinking of it now, like, what are your thoughts on home birth, you know, like as far as,

Rachael Hutchins:
the

Dr. Shannon:
I

Rachael Hutchins:
insight

Dr. Shannon:
don't know.

Rachael Hutchins:
that

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
could give if you're dating, I guess. It's speed dating for adults.

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah, exactly.

Rachael Hutchins:
The questions we would

Dr. Shannon:
Like,

Rachael Hutchins:
ask

Dr. Shannon:
past

Rachael Hutchins:
differently.

Dr. Shannon:
the fluffy stuff. Like, let's get to the real

Rachael Hutchins:
Let's

Dr. Shannon:
meat

Rachael Hutchins:
get

Dr. Shannon:
of it.

Rachael Hutchins:
real. Yeah. And also, so talk about fears and then what are you most looking forward to? What brings you joy? Like

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
what's making you happy about this process? And talking about that too, because then you might be surprised, like again. I think husbands and partners have a lot of feelings and again, culturally and slightly is not supported for them to talk openly, but giving them an opportunity to share what they're excited about. That's awesome too, what they're looking forward to. So just a few examples of some things like to prompt a conversation

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
between your partner and you as you're preparing to give birth, you know, talking about your expectations for the birth, your preferences for the birth and any boundaries that need to be set. either with each other or like family. I can think about your layers of boundaries that you might need. Because the partner spouse is usually the one who needs to hold those boundaries

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
while you're in labor or in the early postpartum. So they need to know like what boundaries are you needing in order to feel safe and comfortable. Same thing with the partner. Because sometimes the partner has like boundaries too. So what are, give both of you a chance to express those so that you can have a plan. for how those boundaries are gonna be laid out and implemented. So conversation between

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
you and partner about how you can support each other and specifically how they can support you as you're going through this like major event. But we want you both whole and connected on the other side. So that's the goal.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm, most definitely. Another aspect of partner involvement, and I think this one is really key and crucial is to take a childbirth education class together. I think it's very important for the partner to understand, of course Rachel likes this, I think it's really important for the partner to understand what is going on in the woman's body as they're preparing for birth or throughout the whole entire pregnancy, everything. And then it just gives them insight into how best to support you again as well as you give birth. So yeah, looking at it as like tips and tools and things to learn on like comfort measures, you know,

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
during labor and birth. Yes, there's that aspect, but I think there's also just that knowledge aspect of What are the stages of labor?

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
So you know what's going on. Knowing how labor unfolds and the time expectations of it and different movements and things. And like you've even said too, whoever's giving birth, sometimes you're just not in it. Like you just need someone to kind of remind you. Not necessarily wanting partner to exhibit. the aspects of a doula. I think having a doula helps the partner be there more authentically

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
because then you're not trying to like teach. It's not like you're not trying to do all the things. You're there to be that comfort, but you've got to understand what is going to be happening in the childbirth process, I think.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep, and

Dr. Shannon:
So.

Rachael Hutchins:
that's going to help lower your fear. It's going to help boost your confidence for the birthing person, but definitely the partner too, so bringing them along the journey and encouraging them to, to do the childbirth education classes. Cause it's not just about the person pushing the baby out. It's about the two of you doing this. And if you want to do it in the most satisfying way and reduce overall fear and help, help reach all the, you know, the goals and the preferences, like you got to learn about what's going on. And exactly what you said, learning about what's normal, you know, cause if you ask a person who's never experienced birth before, they've never given birth themselves. They weren't raised. People talking about birth, you know, specifically like in the male side of things, like you ask them and they're like, we go to the hot, you, you're in labor, you go to the hospital and the doctor delivers the baby. Like

Dr. Shannon:
Mm

Rachael Hutchins:
a lot of the times

Dr. Shannon:
hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
unless they've had other exposures, cause that

Dr. Shannon:
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.

Rachael Hutchins:
there are lots of people who have had other exposures. and other like cultural upbringing where they're more, they have a more normal view of childbirth. Most specifically like male husband side of this, like they don't, so you ask them. And so if that's all they have in their brain, while they are supportive and they love you, if that's all they have, like once you go into labor, they're gonna be thinking, okay, well we need to go to the hospital, or we need,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
this is a medical emergency, there's an interventions needed, like they're gonna be more in that line, and you might be thinking, I wanna labor at home as long as I can.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
I want minimal intervention. You know, I want to delay my epidural or I don't want an epidural or, you know, even more I want to give birth at home. And they're going to be, you know, that might send them into like total fear. And then they don't know how to express that fear. So they're like, okay, sure, that's fine. Like I'm on board, but unless you learn about all of

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
this, it can be really overwhelming. And so when we have, we have seen, and it's actually evidence based, like proven that comprehensive childbirth education has benefits like decreasing overall intervention, decreasing rate of cesarean, decreasing use of pain management, increasing your overall satisfaction with the birth. And so the partner can just learn to be as involved as they want to be, learn, and if they're not gonna have a doula, it's extra helpful. You're right, is it better for the partner to have a doula there? Yes, of course, I believe that because we help shoulder that burden.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Again, they know the birthing person intimately, we know birth intimately together, it's like a perfect. scenario but if you don't want to do it even more so you need to be

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
taking childbirth education learning about these comfort tools because you're not going to have that other person to lean on so yeah

Dr. Shannon:
And

Rachael Hutchins:
childbirth

Dr. Shannon:
you won't have the OB, if you're in the hospital, you're not gonna have the OB and you're not gonna have the midwife, because

Rachael Hutchins:
No.

Dr. Shannon:
they're not in there the whole time. You're gonna have

Rachael Hutchins:
Nope.

Dr. Shannon:
a nurse coming in and out, but you can't bank on that if you're in

Rachael Hutchins:
No,

Dr. Shannon:
the hospital setting.

Rachael Hutchins:
you are mostly

Dr. Shannon:
So,

Rachael Hutchins:
going to be

Dr. Shannon:
mm-hmm,

Rachael Hutchins:
by yourself.

Dr. Shannon:
mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And the nurse is looking after other, you know, at least one other patient, probably,

Dr. Shannon:
and

Rachael Hutchins:
and

Dr. Shannon:
may

Rachael Hutchins:
isn't

Dr. Shannon:
not have

Rachael Hutchins:
there.

Dr. Shannon:
childbirth education.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, and they're not

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
there to help hip squeeze or

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-mm.

Rachael Hutchins:
offer getting in the shower or, you

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
know, so you can learn, like you said, stages of labor, anatomy and physiology, what's happening.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And again, when guys start learning about this kind of stuff, typically they're like.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
That's amazing. I had no idea. And then they're in awe of you.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
They're like, wow, look what's happening inside your mind. Look what you're doing. Look what's like. Then it's like even better, right? It can

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
be. And again, they may not totally geek out on it. Fine. Any bit of involvement in the process is beneficial, but they can learn about alternative coping techniques, using breath for coping, using movement for coping, different positions to take. You know, Tend units, how to use those, using

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
combs for gate control theory to help reduce your overall pain perception. Acupressure, where can you put your thumb on your wife to help reduce pain? Aqua therapy, the benefits of all that. You're going to learn about all these coping techniques that you can do as the partner. You are going to overall understand, and this is what we were driving home, understand the overall process better. And that's going to help. dispel fear, it's gonna help boost confidence. And I think it's a great place to start. And then it's like you hear like in my class, I talk about chiropractic care or these other things. And all of a sudden, it's like your seeds are planted and the partner might be able to pipe in and say, oh, you've been complaining about your hip hurting. Maybe you should

Dr. Shannon:
Really?

Rachael Hutchins:
go see a chiropractor, right?

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
Like, I mean, you know, they're more exposed to or they're having trouble breastfeeding. And they're like, well, in our class, they talked about lactation support.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Can I help you get lactation support?

Dr. Shannon:
Exactly, it might help remind you of the things that got lost in the shuffle

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah!

Dr. Shannon:
of Childbirth and everything though. So And we've talked before about Creating a birth plan. I do kind of like the shift in the terminology of like the birth preferences list to It's still important to even though birth is unpredictable, it's still very important to, you don't wanna just be an ostrich and have your head like stuck in the sand and not be an active participant. But that's where a lot of the knowledge comes into play is when you're doing the research with coming up with a birth preferences. I had, I have a lady that comes into the office to get adjusted, she's not pregnant, but she has a dear friend who is, and it's her first baby. And the friend who... comes into the office was asking me, she just wanted like extra support for her. Like I don't know what to help her with. She's wondering about what happens to baby in the hospital and do I have to do this and do I have to do that? And she was like, well, what should we do? And I was like, I don't know. She could do like delayed cord clamping. Like it was like all this like word vomit stuff came out and I'm like, there's so many things, but that's what comes out when you're making this birth preferences list is you're

Rachael Hutchins:
you

Dr. Shannon:
doing

Rachael Hutchins:
have a chance

Dr. Shannon:
that research.

Rachael Hutchins:
to sort of

Dr. Shannon:
You can go

Rachael Hutchins:
go

Dr. Shannon:
through

Rachael Hutchins:
through

Dr. Shannon:
and learn.

Rachael Hutchins:
the things.

Dr. Shannon:
those things. So, but the big thing is doing that together. And what, however, that looks like it, maybe you come up, you know, whoever is pregnant, you come up with what your preferences are and then maybe bring it to partner and you have a discussion or maybe you sit down together and go through whatever communication style, you know, works.

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
best for you guys, whatever control aspect is in the relationship, it works better. However that conversation happens, that can be really, really helpful. And not only creating it, learning new words and vocabulary, but then like you had mentioned earlier, the advocacy aspect of it can also be another layer of someone being like, remember when you wrote on your birth preferences that you did or did not want certain interventions, just to remind them not to speak for you, but to... Just kind of remind you.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, because you can change your mind. You can change your mind in the birth space, but a gentle reminder of like, well, when we talked about this, this is what you said you wanted. Is this what you still want? Or

Dr. Shannon:
Is

Rachael Hutchins:
have

Dr. Shannon:
this

Rachael Hutchins:
you changed

Dr. Shannon:
where

Rachael Hutchins:
your

Dr. Shannon:
you

Rachael Hutchins:
mind

Dr. Shannon:
want to

Rachael Hutchins:
and

Dr. Shannon:
go?

Rachael Hutchins:
it's okay to change your mind? But no, the birth plan, so I like how, you know, we talked about childbirth education because then you come into the third tip for the partner and it's being involved in the birth planning process or the birth preferences list creation because now you've learned about a lot of the things that are included

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
on the birth preferences. for, you know, there's like a list of categories, right? When you go to make it like environment, monitoring, pain management, what are some other ones? Newborn care, how to manage the placenta,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
prophylactic pitocin, you know, there's some things, oh IV, IV eating and drinking during labor, like kind of all these things that. routinely happen in the birth setting and learning about, oh, these things just happen automatically without like anyone really asking you or sharing about what it is. And it's like, yeah. And then you're like, oh, well, I want to know more about that. So you learn about that in childbirth education. So then when you're going through your birth preferences, you can either explore it further or you know a little bit more confidently what you would prefer. So as obviously this is always like mom and baby are healthy all as well. Then you have some choices, but even if intervention is needed or There are challenges that you face. It doesn't mean the birth plan's out the window. Doesn't mean your birth preferences are out the window. You always got to just make these decisions in this like fluid state and then try to protect your preferences at any, at any place possible. So like wherever you can still protect your preferences, you do. It doesn't mean everything goes out the window. If you need IV fluids. No, it's like, okay, well, what else can we still protect here? How else can we keep this autonomous and empowering? But I definitely believe the birth planning process is a is a journey of exploring your options and learning about what happens. And especially this is really specific to hospital birth, like

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
learning about what happens routinely in the hospital, saying learning about your options. And again, a lot of people don't even know they have a say or can decline certain things. And it's not to say you should decline certain things. It's just learning about, oh, I have say here. And that's where a lot of empowerment comes from and realize that staying in the driver's seat comes from. And that birth plan, you might hear some people knock it or say negative things or say you can't plan birth and I'll be the first to tell you, you can't plan birth. Like no one birth is the same. So it's not about that. It's about learning. It's about an educational journey. It's about being involved in the process. And you said earlier, so a phrase I like is that you're choosing to be an active participant of your birth versus a passive receiver of medical care.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And that is a lot better. Like, okay. I can't control how it's going to go, but I'm going to be involved in the process.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Um, now if you want to surrender everything and say, I've learned about it. I don't want to make decisions. I trust my doctor completely fine. Like your choice. It's not about, it doesn't like, there's no right or wrong way

Dr. Shannon:
Mm hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
to do it, but we think this is an easy way for the partner to be involved and to, to support the birthing person along their journey and be that advocate for them.

Dr. Shannon:
Exactly. Having those conversations about those preferences so

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
then that you both are kind of on the same

Rachael Hutchins:
The

Dr. Shannon:
way,

Rachael Hutchins:
same page.

Dr. Shannon:
same page.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
Another one in our, I think we have eight, we have in our partner tips, so this will be tip number four, is and we just kind of touched on this a little bit, is the aspect that understanding that birth is unpredictable. So I mean we do. We do know that, that things can change, things can pop up, still doesn't mean we can't necessarily plan for things. And maybe too, it's even you've got an A, B, and C type

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
of birth preferences. So that way you've thought about a lot of different things. You know?

Rachael Hutchins:
If this then this.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm and what you're okay with and But understanding and having that little bit of grace with birth and knowing okay, it is going to be unpredictable So it's not like you're creating that birth preferences list so that you can just kind of go through and check everything off

Rachael Hutchins:
No.

Dr. Shannon:
Like this we did this and I did this it's yeah, it's just a different way of looking at it, but

Rachael Hutchins:
It's an approach.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, like

Dr. Shannon:
once

Rachael Hutchins:
checking

Dr. Shannon:
you partner

Rachael Hutchins:
all the boxes doesn't equal a positive birth.

Dr. Shannon:
positive experience exactly.

Rachael Hutchins:
It's how you feel through the process

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
and embracing the unpredictability, but also still being firm in what you want. And that's the phrase I like to say, and we like to say a lot is be the bamboo.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
So think strong, but flexible,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
resilient. And those things can exist at the same time, but it's all about kind of how you approach it.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And you can say this thing has come up, it's not what I was expecting. What are my options now? What can we do now? How can we continue to stay in the driver's seat?

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm, you know one thing that we see a lot I know that you probably see a lot and I'll see it on I'll hear it in the office and I'll see it on Facebook a lot too and some of like the birthy groups is women at searching for Like interviews with the partner for explaining like how birth unfolded for them or like birth stories, but from the partner's, you

Rachael Hutchins:
Hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
know, perspective. So the next one on our list is definitely like, I don't know, digesting all the information that's out there. So yes, you take the childbirth education class, but you can also read some extra books, you know, so you can learn about the bloody show. You can read some books, you can listen to podcasts. Hello. But then watching the videos, but then even having like interviewing other couples that if you want a home birth, let's interview some couples that have been through a home birth. And I guarantee you home birth midwives, if you're with one, they will gladly be able to give you

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
resources. When I had Paige on the show, that was one of the things that she really advocated for was just, you know, if they've got questions, one of her biggest things was to have a real life experience from another couple. They're not just hearing it from their provider or from

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
the midwife. So it's, it's kind of getting that information from all different areas. I would say even including your... Because I'll have moms in the office that I like to get together and be like, hey, you know what? She was planning this birth too. So yeah, you can hang out with this mom or this mom's pregnant at the same time as you. Maybe you could go through these things together. It's reaching out to all of those birth providers

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, the avenues,

Dr. Shannon:
that you're in

Rachael Hutchins:
the

Dr. Shannon:
your

Rachael Hutchins:
different

Dr. Shannon:
team.

Rachael Hutchins:
places you can hear about. Like you said, it's not, it shouldn't just be coming from one place. It can,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
again, books that interest you or audio books, podcasts, um, watching like birth blogs on YouTube. So you can kind of see what's a medicated birth look like, what's an unmedicated birth and really trying to avoid the fluffy ones, like the ones that have the beautiful music and only

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
have little snapshots, those are beautiful. I love them all. But like, let's watch some, some actual birth. And it's not like always like graphic or anything. It's like,

Dr. Shannon:
No.

Rachael Hutchins:
it shows them like laboring at home. It shows them transition to the hospital. It shows them getting an epidural. It shows them unmedicated and rolling their baby out. Like what are the sounds you hear? What are the positions you see? How's the mom's energy changing from when she's at home and then early labor and peppy to transition. And when you see that, that's normalizing. That's reduced. It's like, oh, that's what birth looks like.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
But then there's all ranges. And so

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
when you're exposing yourself, you're kind of, you're continuously putting in new information about what's normal. It's going to help, uh, dispel the fears and boost the confidence. Like we said, and I love, love the whole like community, like who can you talk to who's given birth that isn't full of scary stories. So

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
other people like you and like, we do our home birth prep class and people

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
in that class tend to gravitate to each other more because there's fewer people. Who are going through what they are going through and choosing that path. So they really are like, oh, you're like me. And that helps them feel more confident, especially the dads of like,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins:
oh, I can be like, you're doing this too and you're nervous

Dr. Shannon:
Oh,

Rachael Hutchins:
too.

Dr. Shannon:
how did you support your partner? Oh, you did that, I didn't think about that. What

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep.

Dr. Shannon:
were some of the things that your partner needed? Like, yes,

Rachael Hutchins:
They hear

Dr. Shannon:
finding

Rachael Hutchins:
the different

Dr. Shannon:
those

Rachael Hutchins:
perspectives

Dr. Shannon:
people. Mm-hmm,

Rachael Hutchins:
and stuff.

Dr. Shannon:
mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
So that peer support and leaning in. And so I think that that's one of my favorite tips. And it's accessible. This typically doesn't cost much, maybe getting some books, but podcasts are free and YouTube videos are free. Just sort

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
of like choosing to change some of your entertainment for

Dr. Shannon:
There's

Rachael Hutchins:
a little while.

Dr. Shannon:
some great, I mean, in the Atlanta area, I know all around too, there's some great midwives, home birth midwives that constantly post videos. I love, you know,

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
Birth by Grace with Christine,

Rachael Hutchins:
Oh

Dr. Shannon:
there's

Rachael Hutchins:
yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
Midwife Tanisha, like there's Gifted Hands midwifery. I

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
know them by all their like social media names. So, but I'm always fascinated. Duel of You, LaToya is always posting a lot of good birth videos. So there's other ways to. That's the good use of social media,

Rachael Hutchins:
No, I do.

Dr. Shannon:
like educational

Rachael Hutchins:
And I tell people,

Dr. Shannon:
aspect

Rachael Hutchins:
I'm like,

Dr. Shannon:
of

Rachael Hutchins:
if

Dr. Shannon:
things.

Rachael Hutchins:
you're if you're anti social media, I get that. But this is engaging in a different way.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And now there's so many ways you can kind of learn and get these little snippets of knowledge and experiences.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And and so if you're like, I don't want to watch a 45 minute video. OK, we'll go and go to Instagram and watch a reel or something

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm,

Rachael Hutchins:
for a minute. And, you know,

Dr. Shannon:
and

Rachael Hutchins:
you

Dr. Shannon:
then

Rachael Hutchins:
can

Dr. Shannon:
go

Rachael Hutchins:
kind

Dr. Shannon:
down

Rachael Hutchins:
of

Dr. Shannon:
that

Rachael Hutchins:
learn.

Dr. Shannon:
rabbit hole and maybe there's something else that you could

Rachael Hutchins:
You

Dr. Shannon:
look

Rachael Hutchins:
can learn

Dr. Shannon:
at.

Rachael Hutchins:
in

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm

Rachael Hutchins:
these bite size. But one of my favorite books for the partner is The Birth Partner by Penny Simpkin.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And you can get that on audio. A lot of dads are like, give me the audio books, but you can read that or get it on audio. That's one of my favorite partner books to just get going. A podcast for birth stories. There's The Birth Hour. is a good one. Obviously we love ours, but for like birth stories, um, if you're going for a VBAC and you're the partner, the VBAC link is a good one. Um, doing it outside the box is good if you are, uh, no, that's not the one. I'm doing it at home.

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
Burning outside the box is no longer around,

Dr. Shannon:
I think they're

Rachael Hutchins:
but

Dr. Shannon:
local

Rachael Hutchins:
do

Dr. Shannon:
doing it at home. Isn't she local?

Rachael Hutchins:
she's local.

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
I've

Rachael Hutchins:
And

Dr. Shannon:
seen

Rachael Hutchins:
they

Dr. Shannon:
that.

Rachael Hutchins:
are

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah. Uh-huh.

Rachael Hutchins:
home birthers and they highlight a lot of home birth stories, but they're, it's a, it's a husband wife. So you

Dr. Shannon:
Okay.

Rachael Hutchins:
get a lot of the male perspective. So that's why I like to recommend that one for listening to birth stories, if you're the partner, because you get

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
that input too. So yeah, those are some good ones to start with.

Dr. Shannon:
What was the book that you mentioned again? Sorry, I'm typing

Rachael Hutchins:
The Birth

Dr. Shannon:
notes

Rachael Hutchins:
Partner.

Dr. Shannon:
while we're, yeah. Okay, good. I wanted to at least write

Rachael Hutchins:
be able

Dr. Shannon:
down

Rachael Hutchins:
to put

Dr. Shannon:
like

Rachael Hutchins:
it in there.

Dr. Shannon:
what we're putting, yeah. There was, I feel like Dr. Aviva Ram posted something the other day. Okay, so I'm gonna take a moment and look at my phone for a second because it was this really funny reel of a comedian. Here it is. Who is it? Who's the comedian? Did you see that?

Rachael Hutchins:
I saw it.

Dr. Shannon:
It's Allie Wong and she's like, it takes so little to be a great dad. And she talks about how... It's like he like goes to the OB appointments and all of a sudden he's like a great dad. And she's like,

Rachael Hutchins:
Or gets

Dr. Shannon:
I

Rachael Hutchins:
all

Dr. Shannon:
go

Rachael Hutchins:
the

Dr. Shannon:
to

Rachael Hutchins:
praise.

Dr. Shannon:
every, yeah. She was like, he gets all the praise and she's like, I'm at every appointment. And you know, so that segues into our next

Rachael Hutchins:
Number six.

Dr. Shannon:
tip is to get all the credit by going to as many OB midwife appointments

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah, if you

Dr. Shannon:
as you

Rachael Hutchins:
want

Dr. Shannon:
can.

Rachael Hutchins:
to

Dr. Shannon:
To

Rachael Hutchins:
have your confidence boost, just show up and people

Dr. Shannon:
show

Rachael Hutchins:
will

Dr. Shannon:
off.

Rachael Hutchins:
be like, look at you. You're the best ever.

Dr. Shannon:
Oh yeah,

Rachael Hutchins:
But

Dr. Shannon:
I

Rachael Hutchins:
seriously,

Dr. Shannon:
thought that was great. But seriously,

Rachael Hutchins:
go,

Dr. Shannon:
go.

Rachael Hutchins:
go to the appointments, go to the appointments, go to the appointments. And

Dr. Shannon:
Uh-huh.

Rachael Hutchins:
I get it. It's a lot. Everyone has work. But if you prioritize it, it can make a big difference. It can help the your wife feel. supported even if she's like it's fine I understand I can go but carrying that burden all by herself is a lot

Dr. Shannon:
I'm just

Rachael Hutchins:
and You

Dr. Shannon:
remembering.

Rachael Hutchins:
never know what might come

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
up, huh?

Dr. Shannon:
No, I'm just remembering when we went to our first appointment with when I was pregnant with my first and they did the ultrasound and it is not external. Like is

Rachael Hutchins:
Right.

Dr. Shannon:
it internal? My

Rachael Hutchins:
And they're like, their eyes get

Dr. Shannon:
husband

Rachael Hutchins:
all bugged.

Dr. Shannon:
was like. say what and I think that was his first like oh dang this is gonna be this is gonna be this is gonna be intense like this whole process of like

Rachael Hutchins:
They

Dr. Shannon:
what's

Rachael Hutchins:
have

Dr. Shannon:
gonna

Rachael Hutchins:
no

Dr. Shannon:
happen

Rachael Hutchins:
idea

Dr. Shannon:
yeah

Rachael Hutchins:
and you don't know and that's how you learn.

Dr. Shannon:
but that's the thing I still

Rachael Hutchins:
Like if

Dr. Shannon:
remember

Rachael Hutchins:
you came home

Dr. Shannon:
his

Rachael Hutchins:
and

Dr. Shannon:
face.

Rachael Hutchins:
said I had to have an internal vaginal ultrasound, would he really be empathetic

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
at all if he hadn't seen the wand?

Dr. Shannon:
Because he needed the visual. He needed to know what was going on.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
So yeah, but that is why we want them to go to the appointments, you know? And maybe,

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
yes, you get to a lot of appointments. And then I love when I have dads. I'll have whole families come in for their first like chiropractic appointment. It's the real

Rachael Hutchins:
I love

Dr. Shannon:
long,

Rachael Hutchins:
that.

Dr. Shannon:
you know, exam

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
or whatnot. And so, and a lot of times I'm talking. to mom, like we're having our conversation, she's going through everything, but you know, I think it's really fun when the whole family shows up and when they

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon:
are really taking an active role and being an active participant

Rachael Hutchins:
And they

Dr. Shannon:
in

Rachael Hutchins:
can

Dr. Shannon:
the

Rachael Hutchins:
help

Dr. Shannon:
birth as

Rachael Hutchins:
digest

Dr. Shannon:
well.

Rachael Hutchins:
some of that information too, because if you're being given a lot of information in an appointment, you're absorbing some of it. But if you have someone else there to absorb it with you, you can go home and be like, okay, what did they say? And you can kind of talk through it, use that

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
time. Did you have any concerns about what they said or what we learned? You can sometimes even, if you forgot what questions to ask, they could

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
have saved them on their phone and been like, I can help you remember the questions that we talked about asking.

Dr. Shannon:
Or maybe the provider asks a question that sparks a conversation because they're like, oh, well, I didn't know that was really what you were wanting or hoping or thinking about or

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep.

Dr. Shannon:
something. So.

Rachael Hutchins:
And then it just builds from there. And in those appointments, you have the opportunity to begin practicing and implementing the advocating tools that you've learned from childbirth education or that you are figuring out on your own for you and your baby. And that is like a muscle. You got

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
to exercise it. Advocacy by definition, you might be like, yeah, I can advocate for my wife. But you don't really know until you're in the setting of what that looks like. And going to the appointments before you're in the heat of labor, it helps build that confidence. I can ask questions of a person wearing a white coat or in authority.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
I can, I can, you know, I've learned my brain acronym. I've learned, you know, how to kind of get all the information we need to make a decision. I've learned how to like, I don't know, advocate and

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
using the OB appointment or the OB midwife appointments as the time to do

Dr. Shannon:
as practice

Rachael Hutchins:
that.

Dr. Shannon:
to get

Rachael Hutchins:
It's your

Dr. Shannon:
to...

Rachael Hutchins:
practice.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm, no,

Rachael Hutchins:
So encouraging,

Dr. Shannon:
most definitely.

Rachael Hutchins:
like asking questions, even if you're like, I don't really have anything else to ask, you could ask them, what are your favorite hobbies? I don't care, have a conversation with them, help break down that wall, help boost your confidence in having those conversations. But aim to ask something, there's always something to learn.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm. Oh the next one. Okay, the next one is good. That's one of my favorites

Rachael Hutchins:
Oh, I already said it, yes, sorry.

Dr. Shannon:
But I'm gonna have Rachel dive deep into this one And I know we just had a well, I don't know when this episode's going out But we did just have an episode where you talked about when you did your solo episode, but using the brain Acronym and this is one of my favorite things. I learned this when we started doing this podcast. So I did not know this when I was pregnant. I did not know this in the postpartum. I did not learn this until doing the podcast. So, and even well into being a chiropractor. So this is kind of fun. That's why I like these shows and these episodes

Rachael Hutchins:
Yeah,

Dr. Shannon:
because we still learn. So,

Rachael Hutchins:
we

Dr. Shannon:
okay,

Rachael Hutchins:
are still

Dr. Shannon:
tell

Rachael Hutchins:
learning.

Dr. Shannon:
us about the brain acronym and how we can use it.

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep. So this is one of those tools that if you access it and like are prepared to use it, you don't have to know all the things about all the things. So if you're stressed about or fear, I'm not going to know what they're talking about. Use your brain. Use the brain acronym. This facilitates informed and shared decision making and keeps you in the driver's seat. And it's important for the partner to learn this acronym because if The birthing person is deep in labor land or too tired or feeling uncertain and unsure, which is a normal part of labor. You can come in and be like, we got this, we're going to ask these five questions and it'll help us decide what we need to do next. And so B is for benefits. What are the benefits to doing this thing, this test, this intervention that you're recommending? What are the benefits to not doing it? So you can kind of ask it both ways depending

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
on what's being recommended. What are the risks to doing this test or intervention? And I say test because this acronym can be used at these OB appointments. When you're going in to the, and there's a lot of routine tests and procedures and things that happen during pregnancy, you can still use this brain acronym or it's the end of pregnancy and they're talking about induction or something like that. So it's not just during labor.

Dr. Shannon:
Not just during birth, okay, that's good.

Rachael Hutchins:
Right?

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
So what are the risks to doing this test or procedure intervention? A is for alternatives. What are the available alternatives that I could possibly do instead of doing the test or intervention? Because sometimes just exploring your alternatives and trying them out helps you feel more confident that you did a few different things before going to the intervention that maybe you didn't want. So an example is they are like, well, it looks to us like contractions have spaced out or slowed down. We wanna introduce Pitocin. You ask the benefits risk and then you ask about available alternatives. And one of them might be nipple stimulation or getting up and walking around

Dr. Shannon:
Moving

Rachael Hutchins:
if you don't

Dr. Shannon:
around.

Rachael Hutchins:
have an epidural or maybe some alone time with your partner where you cuddle and kiss, like some things that are going to help boost oxytocin naturally

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
before, if there's not really a medical need to hurry things along, can you try these other things first before doing the intervention? And

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
that example, like a, OB may not recommend some of those alternative options like I just did. So learning about them is really helpful

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
or having someone to ask like a doula is also helpful so that exploring your alternatives to the test or intervention. Another one might be the glucose test during pregnancy. There's the glu-cola but then there's like the fresh test

Dr. Shannon:
Brush test, yeah.

Rachael Hutchins:
and glu-cola is like the orange drink. It's got a ton of sugar in it, which is the point. But it's like. it's kind of like not great.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Or there's the fresh test which has more whole ingredients in it and it gets the same result.

Dr. Shannon:
the same

Rachael Hutchins:
Like you're

Dr. Shannon:
results.

Rachael Hutchins:
still able to test how your body responds with insulin or not to the sugar. And so again, alternatives.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And it feels really good to know what your alternatives are. Even if you choose the thing they're recommending, it's still really cool to know your options, right? So available alternatives. I is intuition. What is your gut telling you? And I can't preach it enough, but tapping into your intuition early and often makes it stronger, makes you better able to tap into it and you need your intuition and you have it. But again, culturally, societally, it's not always highlighted or encouraged to lean into your intuition. So it's something we sort of have to foster. And

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
I always feel like pregnancy is a really beautiful time to start

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
trying to like listen to your intuition. asking what you feel like, what your gut's saying you saying to you and combining that with the information you're gathering, like by asking about benefits, risk alternatives, what's your gut telling you? Because that's part of the equation too. That matters. And the more you trust it, like the more you can trust it. Right? Like,

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
and I think a lot of people, that's something that we aren't taught always to do. So I think motherhood is a beautiful time to lean into intuition. And then the N in brain is Do we need to do this now or what if we do nothing? So kind of depending on what it is, you

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
can ask. And sometimes they might say, if you ask what if we do nothing? And they're like, well, it might just be longer until you meet your baby, but there's like, so there's no risk to like,

Dr. Shannon:
Yeah,

Rachael Hutchins:
we're just trying

Dr. Shannon:
so

Rachael Hutchins:
to hurry

Dr. Shannon:
really

Rachael Hutchins:
this

Dr. Shannon:
understanding

Rachael Hutchins:
along.

Dr. Shannon:
what the actual, exactly what the

Rachael Hutchins:
It kind

Dr. Shannon:
risk

Rachael Hutchins:
of

Dr. Shannon:
is.

Rachael Hutchins:
helps highlight like, okay, well, nothing will happen if we do nothing. Well, then let's choose nothing.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
Or if we do nothing, maybe there's greater risk. And that's

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
the only way you learn that is that by doing nothing, maybe there's greater risk. Um, and that's a powerful question too. It can be insightful. And so then you take all of that and you say, okay, now can we have a little bit of time to talk about this or think about it before

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
making a decision? And again, and then in a non-emergent situation, which most of the time it is, you have time to talk about it. and have the provider and nurses leave and give you some private time to talk about it.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And you can revisit like, okay, what did I originally want? How am I feeling now that I've been in labor for 18 hours? It's okay if you change your mind. And then you make a decision and then you invite the provider back in or you wait for them to come back in an hour or two and you make a decision and it's on your terms

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
versus them telling you,

Dr. Shannon:
That changes everything.

Rachael Hutchins:
changes everything, even

Dr. Shannon:
It changes

Rachael Hutchins:
if you decide

Dr. Shannon:
everything.

Rachael Hutchins:
to

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
do the thing that they are recommending. You've gone

Dr. Shannon:
That's

Rachael Hutchins:
through the

Dr. Shannon:
when

Rachael Hutchins:
process.

Dr. Shannon:
labor and birth, you become an active participant instead of something that happened to you. Because that's how

Rachael Hutchins:
And a

Dr. Shannon:
I feel

Rachael Hutchins:
phrase,

Dr. Shannon:
about my first birth. Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
you feel bulldozed, you feel ran over, you feel like things were out of control. Those are some phrases that are used when you feel like birth is just happening to you.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And we always like to reframe that like providers are not, we don't think intentionally trying to hurt or harm, right? In their approach of sort of dictating or telling you what's happening next against society and culture, like the way our system. Our healthcare system is they're trying to have, deliver a lot of babies and help a lot of people get birthed. And a lot of people come in there, not knowing what they want or to ask questions. So they, providers are trained to make decisions for people and in a speedy way. So it's not to knock them as saying, but it's understanding how the system works and how you can plug into it and experience it differently by

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
using this tool. Cause when you start asking questions, like you're, they're going to like sort of let their guard down, they're going to maybe sit on the end of your bed. have this time with you and if they're not, they're not, you need to fire them and get someone else in there. But like for the most part, you're gonna get a good response, you're gonna get the information, you're gonna get them to slow down and then they're gonna be like, okay this person's like involved here and then they might treat you and the whole process differently and in a good way.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
So that's to tell you like not to be scared to advocate or to use this tool. and worry that they're going to get mad at you for asking questions or judge you. It's like they see a lot of birth. You might have this experience once or twice. And this is like you have to remember you're the consumer. This is your experience. And so you have every right to ask these questions and be involved and even ask them over and over again until you feel good or until they've explained it differently so that it resonates and makes sense to you. And it matters. It matters.

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
And so the partner having this tool saved to their phone or something can just be an easy way for them to advocate even if they don't know what to do. You can

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
access this.

Dr. Shannon:
Yep. So that was our last little partner tip is having Print out have your partner have these resources like readily available, you know have them Saved on the phone or maybe you've even created your own Little list of things, you know And then where you can access the birth preferences remind yourself of that brain acronym You know the affirmations that you maybe wanted to have the room, ways to remember coping mechanisms, all those little things that you guys have done together throughout the pregnancy, kind of leading to the time of birth, having that readily available. Not just... Not just trying to have it like in the back of your mind, like, oh, I'll remember these things or something like that. It is kind of having it there and accessible because

Rachael Hutchins:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon:
you never know what happens. You just don't know how you're gonna react to certain situations and what you're actually going to remember and be able

Rachael Hutchins:
Absolutely.

Dr. Shannon:
to like recall and bring forth. So

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep.

Dr. Shannon:
making sure that you have those things readily available

Rachael Hutchins:
Yep,

Dr. Shannon:
can be

Rachael Hutchins:
it's

Dr. Shannon:
another

Rachael Hutchins:
an

Dr. Shannon:
good

Rachael Hutchins:
easy

Dr. Shannon:
thing.

Rachael Hutchins:
thing to do. It's a fun activity. You could do it together or they could do it on their own. Whatever, print it, save it, hang it on the wall, whatever it is, have the reminders because it'll make a big difference.

Dr. Shannon:
I know, I know. Um, I think that was all of our tips friend, right? Did you have anything else you wanted to add?

Rachael Hutchins:
No, I love it though. Share this with your partners. Let

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
us know what they think. Let us know if they think it's helpful. Like, you know, we're on the other side of this. We're the birth givers, we're the mothers. We're

Dr. Shannon:
Mm-hmm.

Rachael Hutchins:
just trying to help the partners out. So we'd love to hear if y'all think this is helpful for the partners.

Dr. Shannon:
Yep, yep. Tune in next week.