Ep 46: Role of Chiropractic in Childbirth Education (Pathways Article Review)

In this episode, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael dissect an article from one of their favorite magazines, Pathways to Family Wellness.  This article is about the Role of Chiropractic in Childbirth Education and is by Sarah Clark. The article premise is how chiropractic care is an essential part of not just birth, but childbirth education, and how it has the ability to change birth as we know it.  A good question the article brings up is: “How do well-prepared people sometimes end up with a birth very different from the one they planned?” We go over the pros and cons of this article and share our own feedback on this important topic. 

You can find the Pathways article here: Role of Chiropractic in Childbirth Education

It is also found in Pathways to Family Wellness Magazine Issues #41 and #64

Other resources mentioned:

Well Adjusted Baby (book)

Episode 25: Vaginal Birth After Cesarean

Birth Boot Camp

BetterBirth.org (My Breech Baby - Lauren McClain)

We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.

We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!

If you like what you are hearing and you don’t want to miss our newest episodes, be sure and tap subscribe. Your support is greatly appreciated.

Follow us on Instagram:

Aligned Birth: www.instagram.com/aligned_birth

Dr. Shannon: www.instagram.com/sunrise_chiropractic_wellness

Doula Rachael: www.instagram.co

Transcript

0:02

Hello Hello and welcome to the aligned birth podcast. Dr. Shannon here today and our doula Rachel is here to see you get both the hosts today and we're doing a very new type of episode. We're going to go through a article, obviously a birthday related art. Cool. That was actually printed in one of my favorite magazines. I think great.

1:00

So really likes magazine to the pathways to family wellness, we've talked about it a bunch that we'll we'll link to the article and everything but we're going to go through an article and really hash it out and kind of talk about because it mentions childbirth education, it mentions chiropractic care, and we want to go through and give our thoughts and perspective and insight and we may not always agree with the article, but I think it's a wonderful way to start discussions and so getting down to the nitty gritty of this article. It's called the growing role of chiropractic and childbirth education. So I think it's a perfect thing for Rachel to talk about music prenatal chiropractor, Rachel as doula Rachel and she's childbirth educator Lumos certified like and host her childbirth education classes, so I think it's going to be a fun article to talk about. I want to introduce just a few quotes from the article and then we'll go through and really give our thoughts and perspective and insight and so this is going to miss of where we're going with this article, why we're talking about it and childbirth education and chiropractic care and how those things can mix together. To quote directly from the article says those who care for birthing women don't just want them to survive the birth process. We want women and families to have a healthy and enjoyable pregnancy. We want these families to have a glorious and triumph at birth. We want birth to be experienced as it is meant to be full of joy and power. Now this article then goes on to say well, how do well prepared people sometimes end up with a birth very different from the one they planned and that is why Rachel and I chose this article today to talk about so I'm excited to chat with you today about it, Rachel.

2:48

Yes, I am looking forward to this too. I love this magazine. I think every article I've ever read even if I don't fully agree with it, and many I do. I still find them very thought provoking, insightful, helpful and can lead me on to further exploration. And so I like sharing this article with our audience because I want to introduce them to other ways of learning about about pregnancy and childbirth and childbirth education and your birth support team and chiropractic care and, and all of that. And so I am really looking forward to this format and to, you know, dissecting this article with you, I think it's going to be interesting.

3:33

I know and I liked how they so like I said, well we'll link to it because it is shared on the pathways to family wellness website. And I like how you know the article is laid out well because really diving deep into the childbirth education realm, and I guess we can even chat just a bit about you know, I only took the hospital based classes and so I know we've talked before on other episodes as far as having an independent childbirth education class, and that's something that you offer and the differences between those two classes but then also the aspect of our these classes talking about the members of your birth support team and I know from my hospital base class, I don't remember learning anything else about any on a team. I don't remember the word doula. I don't, you know, I don't remember any of those things. Although that was a long time ago. I only do remember as far as like lactation consultants. But that wasn't even that's not childbirth education, you know, but that's the only thing I remember from birth support team. So I think that's kind of interesting to say like, how has that changed? They mentioned that article about like, how, adding in that verse support team aspect to childbirth education, I guess because has made an impact in

4:58

the birthing world. Yeah. And I think talking about it in a way to encourage people to seek that type of childbirth education that is providing information about the whole body, and that mind, body connection and the integrated nature of our body, the emotional, mental, physical, you know, all of that and having an childbirth is not just likely near and it's not just influenced by one thing. It's influenced by a multitude. of things. And so like a hospital based childbirth education class is usually much more like focused on hospital protocols, you know, stages of labor, a little bit and maybe like how to have birth or give birth within the hospital setting. Whereas like an independent childbirth education class and there are a bunch of different formats and styles and methods, but a good one in my opinion, includes like that whole body conversation and that you know, you learn about the anatomy of pregnancy, you learn about the anatomy of giving birth and the the way labor progresses and the stages of labor and how to be like healthy habits during pregnancy, warning signs during pregnancy, how to seek comfort during early labor and all the stages of labor different positions you can labor in that helped facilitate labor progress, depending on different types of labor patterns, you're having different positions, you can push in, besides your back, right, learning about what happens after the birth, like immediately after the birth, giving birth to the placenta, your immediate skin to skin with your newborn, breastfeeding, postpartum care, all of that relational stuff that happens at home after your you know, after you've given birth and, and that first 12 weeks after the birth and then beyond. So there's a lot and in my childbirth education class and one of the in the very first class, I talked about your birth support team, and I start by talking about the difference in like a midwife and an OB GYN because a lot of people don't know you know that you can actually see someone besides an obstetrician and so I start there, and then I go into your birth support team, and that includes chiropractic care, now it also now I also do talk about perinatal mental health counselors. Pelvic Floor therapy, and that kind of stuff. But chiropractic care is one of the main ones I talk about, because I believe it's fundamental in helping prepare your body and your mind for birth in a very meaningful and like effective way. And so I read this and I kind of in the article, it is like, it kind of says like the childbirth educators aren't necessarily sharing about chiropractic care as much as they could be. And for me, I'm, I'm definitely sharing about chiropractic care with my students and as a doula, I'm sharing with it with my Doula clients. as well. But the reality is, is maybe not everyone is exposed to to that component as far as like looking at the whole birth support team, not just like the one light provider. And so that's one reason I really wanted to talk about this. And that's how I presented in my class and, and I think chiropractic care is absolutely a key component to meaningfully prepare for childbirth. Now we know that you can do all the things you can take childbirth education, you can seek chiropractic care, you can have a midwife, you can you know, take the hospital class and an independent childbirth class, you can do yoga every day and do all the things and still end up with a birth. That isn't what you had planned for. So I think that's really important to talk about while we're talking about cabretta here being a key component. Now, I'll say it 100% impacted both of my pregnancies members seeking chiropractic care. And so I've tailored it for everyone, and I think it is certainly an evidence based practice. But there are some things to be you know, looking at the whole picture is is really important.

9:04

No, and I'm glad you touched on you know, you can do all the things and still get a completely different result. And so you and I chatted beforehand we were coming up with like, you know what we wanted to talk about because he had a couple of different pathways articles, and I saw this and I was like, oh, let's do this one. And then you know, rereading it again, it it can be presented in that if you do all these things you will get this result type of thing, right. And so you can do these things and you could

9:43

get this result, you have a better chance you have a bad chance,

9:47

right? But birth can unfold and so I mean, but they do the author does present a very typical. I mean, it sounded a lot like my first birth, except that I didn't do a face so I'm going to be completely honest there. But she goes through to kind of say that it's the whole premise of like, how do well prepared people get a different birth from what they planned? Well, you know, obviously, that's just because that's how life unfolds. But it can be you know, there were some she talks about like, Labor's finally started. She's got her partner. They go to the hospital. She's not dilated. They do some interventions to help move things along. And then there's exhaustion and then pain and then epidural and then internal fetal monitoring and you know, that cascade of events that we've talked about, and then getting into that born via, you know, a cesarean which might be someone's you know, birth plan, which is fine, but if that was not your birth plan, and it cascaded that way, you can be left feeling defeated, you know, and like, what did I do wrong type of thing. And so, I think that's where we wanted to have discussions with the article to to say, yes, you can do all those things. But maybe you will, if you do all those things, and we still end up with something that's completely outside of what we planned. Maybe that birth preparation process and having all that support makes an impact to and how you feel about that birth outcome.

11:28

Yeah, and that's what we do, or that's what in my childbirth education class I focus on and with our virtual appliance, we really focus on not giving birth a certain way, like an unmedicated birth is not the right way or the correct way or the like valid, you win way. It's that no matter how your birth unfolds, and no matter how your baby is born into this world, whether it be vaginally or a belly birth, that you feel good and supported, and empowered along that whole journey and on the other side of it, no matter how it unfolds. And so that's the where I've deferred in this article of like that there's this like one thing had you done it, it could have gone differently. And when we leave when we when we tell people and talk about birth in that way, then it leaves them feeling very, like defeated. And so I think it's important to recognize that you the goal, in my opinion, should be an empowered, satisfying, safe, healthy birth no matter what twists and turns come up along your path, and that you feel good about it on the other side. No matter how your baby's born. That's when we need women to feel satisfied and empowered after they've given their birth no matter what happens. But I think the important thing to that maybe this article was trying to get out was that talking about the optimal fetal positioning, and how a malposition baby can make labor longer and harder than you anticipated. So how can we avoid or reduce having a mouth position baby so now position baby is is really anything other than that left occiput anterior, so that's where babies on your left side of your belly with their head down, sort of looking back at your hips. And head down in any position is still better than like breech, which is like feet or butt down first. So you could still have a right Ahsoka anterior where babies on the right side when that's still that's not considered optimal, but it's still better like we can work with that a little bit easier than

13:32

with Brad to do the long term and not the short term.

13:35

Exactly. They've got to do the long term and, and so talking with expecting families about the position of the baby and ways to encourage optimal fetal positioning should be part of childbirth education. And part of that line of care is chiropractic care. And yeah, so

13:56

I love what you just said. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's like that really addressing that malposition and how can we do some things to help? Again, not, you know, 100% you're gonna have this optimal fetal position if you do this, but it can help. Yes,

14:15

yes. And there are sometimes factors outside of our control. So like the shape and size of your pelvis or the shape and size of your baby's head. And those are very rare anomalies. So you know, people think that their body isn't made or that their baby's stupid in order to give birth. vaginally is certainly very, very, very, very, very rare. So but understand that those are factors that we don't necessarily know before the baby is born and

14:41

to where the placenta Oh, yeah, and also play a huge factor. Yeah,

14:45

yeah. And so there are factors and no matter what you do, no matter childbirth, education, doula chiropractor, those things sometimes are out of our control. But I definitely talk about optimal fetal positioning things they can do. During pregnancy to encourage baby into that left Ahsoka anterior that left side head down looking back and and even if baby needs to wiggle a little bit during labor to get into the right position. Maybe labor has started maybe you've seen a chiropractor your entire pregnancy, but labor starts and the labor pattern is irregular. Maybe you're having contractions that are very close together. But it's very early, you're not really you know, dilated too much and you're having maybe a lot of back pain. I could be indication that baby is posterior. So So you could do some things in that moment to help baby turn and if you've seen if you've had chiropractic care, your whole pregnancy is going to be easier, because that round ligaments gonna be loose like you're going to be like in a much better position to get baby in a good position even once labor starts. Then if you didn't have chiropractic care during the course of your pregnancy, like we you know, there's I know you had a client that we shared that she saw chiropractic care her entire pregnancy, but then her water broke and labor didn't start right away. And that was like an indication that baby was probably not in optimal fetal position at that at that moment, but I'm pretty sure she came in and saw she got adjusted that day. And then things went very quickly once labor did start.

16:18

That's exactly right. And spoiler alert, we're gonna have her birth story on the show at some point, which is super awesome, but that's something to think about too because and I, I thought of her story, specifically when reading this because, you know, she was adjusted during that pregnancy, and then ended up like, like you said, that the water broke and then things kind of stalled. And it was like, Okay, what's going on? And so, it would have been it's a lot different case, if a mom has been under care, regular care for an extended period of time during that pregnancy or even before and then ends up with that stalled labor. Because a lot of times that adjustment can make that huge impact in if there is fetal malposition or those biomechanics of what's going on. But I have you know, I've had midwives reach out for a mom who hasn't been under care during her pregnancy, and then has that stalled labor and it's like, Matt, you know, like, well, I have not established with this patient. I don't know the I don't know any of these things about the person. And then it's like, how much easier was it to help facilitate that optimal fetal position with well, mainly would help facilitate mom's pelvis and biomechanics? Because she'd been adjusted for an extended period of time rather than just that one was like a Hail Mary like, you know,

17:47

can it can still help? It

17:49

can still only happen it helped but it just in my mind, it is, just seems to be a better result and outcome. And even less stressful, you know?

18:01

Yes. Yeah, I think so. And then having that temperature, you can go see once labor has started and if it's not progressing, like in a, in a, you know, efficient way you can kind of reach out to that person who you've already established care with. So yeah, starting as early as you can, and going as regularly as you can during pregnancy is definitely recommended. And I know you agree with that, but that of course, it's never too late. So like with my first pregnancy, I didn't start seeing the chiropractor until like 38 weeks? I think so. I mean, that's pretty late, even though I did go until I was 42 weeks, and I went like twice a week and California two weeks. I'm pretty sure I made that I made up for lost time.

18:42

Yeah, we used to do I'm like, Oh, we got to get these adjustments. Yeah, Dr.

18:46

Pam was like we're gonna need to see you like yes, several times.

18:50

I was like, I need to because I got in 36 weeks, you know? What that be back? And it was like, okay, yes, we're gonna do Yeah, so it's not

18:59

too late. But then it's, I mean, that experience I felt like impacted me in a very positive way. And so, I mean, I didn't stop care, you know, I went and continued care postpartum, right. away. My baby saw her regularly. And then when I became pregnant with my second I started, you know, I was still under care, like, and then it just progressed. And so I had cared the entire time. And I felt like that made a big difference in helping with the common aches and pains of pregnancy and I had severe sciatica and pubic pubic symphysis and all kinds of stuff and it definitely helped and then I had very smooth labor and very quick labor. So I have and again, that can be contributed to a number of things, but I you know, being under chiropractic care, I definitely put that in the pro column.

19:50

And I do love the article because it does share. Like there's one title where it's called like the chiropractic, chiropractors role and it says, often the realization of the importance of chiropractic comes when we see the difference it makes in our own pregnancy in reducing pain and increasing comfort.

20:08

That that lived experience.

20:10

Yeah, that experience of like, okay, well I had this before and this now and the differences there and I love they do have quite a few testimonials in the article. So I have a few that I had looked through and kind of highlighted. that stuck out to me. And then I have a few from my office as I was going through my social media pages because I was like, I don't remember I don't know. And I was like, Oh yeah, I have posted about these things. And one that I want to touch on with this too. It's one of the one of the testimonials from the article, and it talks about back spasms that this mom was having and pain medication and an option. This was in her third pregnancy. Like all those things, but she says that she went to the chiropractor, and in two weeks I had no pain and a much better understanding of how to take care of my back and pregnancy. And I think and we had talked about this recently in prep for an actual another episode that we're going to do so probably talk about this again, but you need to hear it again anyway so it's the fact that the concept of time like you know in the in two weeks it that that noticeable difference and feeling much better and having that movement so yeah, you can have like a lot of good immediate relief but then, I mean, everything takes time, right? It took you however old Yeah, I you know, 35 years of cumulative Summit, you know, summation of spinal trauma to get you to this point to think that like, I just got to go once, and so that's where I guess that's where my mindset goes into starting care as early as possible in the pregnancy, because I feel like it can make that bigger impact. You know, so I needed two weeks for that. Well, I went in at 36 weeks ago. I have a lot of two week time, you know, like Yeah, you know, so I liked that. That thought process in that testimony and the realness of it and like it wasn't just one and done.

22:18

Yeah, and I do think you can get there are some types of pain or situations where you can get that adjustment and feel good right away. And I think that's always a positive signal to the brain that yes, it worked. And then sometimes it takes a couple weeks to show up or it takes repeated, you know, going multiple times. So knowing that there are a variety of you know, a spectrum of results, and some people definitely want to, especially if they haven't been under chiropractic care, they want to kind of either see or feel a result pretty quickly. And so normalizing that is I know probably part of your job. But also as an educator like when I talk about seeking chiropractic care, like I'm always telling my students and my clients, like even if you're not in pain, go see the chiropractor because it can help with these other things like it can help with pain down the road or it can help with labor starting you know, on its own and it can help with labor proceeding in a relatively quickly manner and it can help with like, how you feel after the birth so all these things that like maybe you're not experiencing right now is so it kind of starting even without having pain and then if they are experiencing pain I'm always like Okay, drink your water take a bath make an appointment with your chiropractor I'm usually like those are like my recommendations right? And that okay, so you're having some some severe pain goes to the chiropractor and some of this pain might just be like temporarily relieved or just like you might get a little bit of comfort, but that's going to help you get through this very temporary and finite time. So some of those discomforts and pains we feel during pregnancy may not be fully resolved, but they're temporary and if we get a little bit of relief from a chiropractor, and then I always say if you can lump in some, some massage, like and those two together like it can really help you feel as good as possible. For this, what can sometimes be an uncomfortable time.

24:09

Yeah, no massage therapy is so good too. And it's that cumulative, you know, it's using all of those tools and bits and pieces. And, you know, I try to I do try to be very honest in the office as far as like, yes, you know, here's what I do expect. They expect you to feel some relief after this first adjust or some changes and differences. But it's those repeated visits kind of at the beginning. That can make a bigger impact. And then it's that, you know, kind of maintaining it afterwards. Yeah. And I mean, I have had because I've put in a couple of my testimonials that I've gotten from the office. And you know, one of them was because she said after after one adjustment, my pregnancy related sciatic pain was gone. That's awesome. I mean, that I mean, it can have absolutely, absolutely I can't and then she also says I was also able to continue my exercise routine because sometimes it can impact you know, if you're hurting and you can't move and you know that movement is good for your body and for baby.

25:17

Oh, absolutely. If you keep you able to keep moving Yeah.

25:21

And then she said she was also able to able to binge off the aligned Earth podcast episode so that that's not that the subluxations were keeping her from binging the episodes but she I

25:30

like how she included that included that

0:01

I know and I also think knowing that carpet care like and I have a good friend who we talked about this because I carried my babies long. I carried them the 40, almost 42 weeks and she did as well. And you know, we neither one of us were miserable in our like end of pregnancy and I think so many people have this mindset that pregnancy is always miserable and painful and uncomfortable. And it was uncomfortable wasn't like, like I want to do it every day. But I think you know, where my mind was was incredibly important to have a good support team but the chiropractic care and we both my girlfriend and I who also participates in a childbirth education series, and is a doula is like, we contribute that ability to kind of be more at ease towards the end of pregnancy where some of that the strong discomfort and this the excruciating pain doesn't take over. So we're able to keep going and allow ourselves time to let labor begin on its own, which is an important factor in childbirth. And so we just attributed car you know, chiropractic care and then being able to exercise and move but again, that's probably related to the fact that we were taking care of our bodies and seeking chiropractic care that whole time so we're we're able to keep exercising and stretching and we are, you know, doing the things that we want to do that help us feel good so that that like negative cycle doesn't start and so, I mean, I can't say enough about it. I do love this quote that you have here if you don't mind me sharing it was one that from your one of your clients that says, I feel like a better mom since starting under care. I no longer have back pain during this pregnancy and I can move and play with my older child. And that is amazing.

1:45

I know. And so a lot of times what I do in the office is I check it you know, I like to you know, ask people okay, like, yeah, it's the pain points like Okay, how's the pain, how you feeling? But I also there's a big part of the fact that chiropractic, I think I can really improve that quality of life. And so I like to check in on those other emotions and things so like, you tell me something good, what are what's going on in your world? That's why some people like I feel like your therapist and like I'm not you know, trained in that aspect of things, but I know this mind body connection and so that was just kind of listening to what the moms have to say. I write a lot of things down or people what they're saying, even I write a lot of those things down because I'm like, they can explain it so much better than I ever could, you know, and yeah, you know, what's fun about that quote, though? That's actually the mom that ended up with the stalled labor. So we'll actually talk to Jessica on her that was her. Because she did she had Yeah, she had a toddler and you know, just coming in and like exhausted and so seeing her say, you know, I can like function better because I can now I have the strength, the capacity, the energy, the motion, the movement, you know, the ability to parent the other child while growing. The second child

3:14

that is beautiful and that leads nicely into the next section of this article, talking it's like beyond the common aches and pains. And I think this is what you are a brilliant, so brilliant and genuine at doing with your patients. And I'm going to read a little section that I think highlights that like bigger picture to seeking chiropractic care, during pregnancy and beyond. So the article says, of course, chiropractic can do so much more during pregnancy than eliminate unnecessary pain. It can also have a deep and lasting impact on the emotional health of the woman, a pregnant woman who is in excruciating pain or overwhelmed with fears regarding her body's ability to function is not just experiencing physical symptoms. She is experiencing emotional stress as well. Those who understand the impact of the mind body connection know that this is no laughing matter. And I think that is like the bigger picture that I want my anyone that I talk about childbirth with to understand.

4:23

I know I love that I love that too. And I hit a highlighted that in my in the article when I printed it off, because that really I feel like that's like the heart of it. Because yeah, you know, I do want people to feel better. But we perceive everything in our world through our nervous system. And so if we've got that imbalance, those subluxations between that Brain Body Body brain connection, well are we accurately perceiving that environment? Is the information coming to the brain accurate? And if that's an accurate is the information coming out from the brain accurate you know, it's it's really that and so I feel that that is some of the statements that we hear from the moms of like, oh, I can care for my other kids better you know, and those type of things has to do with that like emotional regulation. And I mean, let's even getting into like polyvagal theory and the vagus nerve and how important that is and how chiropractic adjustments can impact biggest are functions. That's a whole other episode. But yeah, but yeah, so I do feel that there's that emotional aspect to it as well and helping us

5:41

processing and yeah, when I talk about seeking chiropractic care during pregnancy, I'm like, it's so much more than just an adjustment, especially if you're with the right provider, someone like yourself, someone who focuses on the whole mind body connection, integrated wellness, the emotional side, physical side like what's happening at home like all of that, like, imagine, and this is kind of part of another quote like, just imagine the difference. Women would like the difference that could be made for maternity care for every pregnant woman simply if she simply enjoyed her pregnancy more, due to chiropractic. Care. And I'm like, yes, yes. Yes. And I could say that like and I could also fill in the blank and with a doula and with childbirth education, and with

6:25

a support just enjoy the pregnancy more periodic I know and then and then you add in all that birth support

6:32

team team, yeah, because I talk with each layer of the birth support team. That's what you're working towards, is that overall better experience and I'm Sorry, I interrupted you.

6:40

Oh, that's exactly it though. Because when I was going to go back to, it's how its portrayed in the movies. It's in the media. Oh, you're supposed to be like, so uncomfortable and so much pain. It's such an inconvenience. And you can't do these things now. You know, like all of the like negative things yes. That I mean, yeah, I was like stuffy as all get out. I had that pregnancy rhinitis. And I'm like, carpal tunnel flared up and like all of those things, but like, I really frickin loved being pregnant like it was so neat. So I mean, I know that's I do like that. That way to look at it as in like, enjoying that pregnancy.

7:21

Yeah, trying to you know, of course there are good especially as are not fun. Yeah, there are so many factors and considerations that influence a person's experience during pregnancy. And I think, and I think you agree like the thing we just don't the thing we want to drive home is that it doesn't have to always be miserable. We can break that perception of what the movies show Pregnancy and Birth to be, but that doesn't mean if you are experiencing that in real time that there's an easy fix because what you're experiencing is very real. If you have a lot of pain and discomfort or a lot of emotional or mental things going on. Like your experience is very real and and all we want to do is provide resources and education and support to help you have the best birth available to you and the best pregnancy available to you. And so that looks differently for everyone.

8:15

I know it does. It does look different for everyone.

8:18

Yeah, but yeah, yeah. And I like this one of these other quotes talking about beyond common aches and pain. So chiropractic care sometimes people when I talk about it with my students and doula clients like you know, sometimes it's for like the aches and pains right like these, the sciatica the pubic symphysis, the insomnia, the sort of like things real very real things that they're experiencing, but understanding that there are other things like we just talked about that that the emotional support the mind body connection support that you get from a chiropractor, but also also, it says, of course, chiropractic care can help eliminate pain, but another thing that you quickly realize when working with birthing women is that chiropractic can help labor to simply proceed. Normally, a labor that stops and starts or just won't get going can be caused by subluxed mother and a baby that can't get into an optimal position because of it. And so there's evidence showing that chiropractic care during pregnancy can help shorten the length of labor also help with overall like pain, and it can help there was one more thing it can help shorten it and there was one more thing What was it and it was shorter, easier, oh Lower, lower rates of intervention. When you see part part to care during pregnancy, and I just had that in one other spot. So that's my recall. Yeah,

9:38

no, no, no. And that's mentioned to those studies that they talk about in this article are mentioned in a book

9:45

that I have said before how to have a well adjusted,

9:51

baby, and I need to figure out how to pronounce her last name. I think it's florine But Dr. Jennifer Barham florine.

10:02

She's based in Australia. And the book in the book she talks about there's a whole chapter in here so I'll just go through what they talked about. It's self care, unhealthy habits. This is preparing for the birth of a child is really about preparing for the rest of your life as a parent. And she mentioned those so there was a hospital study that incorporated chiropractic adjustments during the patient's pregnancy and the results indicated there was a 50% decrease in the need for painkillers during deliver during delivery attributable to pre delivery adjustments. And then so that's where some of that comes from. And then there's a few studies done by Dr. John Fallon, and she found that first time moms, I love this book because it says moms you know, like MEMS because Australian restaurant, first time mums averaged a 24% shorter labor while experienced moms so you know they've given birth before had a 39% reduction, the average labor time in a substantial percentage of births. So that's where some of that

11:07

some of that stuff comes from.

11:09

Yeah, so shortening labor reducing overall pain and lowering rate of interventions blue I mean, you can't really

11:17

Yeah, that Yeah, right. Like, oh, take time. Yep. That's good. And you know, sometimes just, uh, yeah, like, I do deal a lot with like, women calling and saying, like, oh, yeah, I've got, you know, sciatica. I've got back pain. I've got hip pain ralink Like all of those pain points. And then sometimes I get the calls where it's moms are like, you know, nothing's too terrible like they've got the aches and pains but it's not like it's manageable. It's not, you know, debilitating for them. But they're also like, well, I just kind of want to like make sure things are lined up. I hear that a lot. And I'm like, that's such a fun way to, to put it like they're like I just want to make sure things are lined up and I'm like yeah, okay, we can do that.

12:04

Yeah, that is that's exactly what you do. And I think understanding and I think when I try to explain this to my students and and do a client's is that when we say line things up, people don't realize that their uterus if they if it doesn't, if things are not in alignment, like with your back and your hips and your pelvis, then the uterus can be a kind of twisted or like one area one side could be like being pushed in on so the baby can't like settle down in that left side if that's, you know, if it's if the uterine area is subluxed or whatever are misaligned, and that adjustments can help out all the room for the uterus, which holds the baby which is what the baby's inside of all the room it needs to settle into that optimal fetal position.

12:53

Yeah, that mean that's like, that's what I talked about. In the office. It's exactly what I tell moms as far as like that purpose and point of Webster technique, and, you know, as far as what we're looking at, because that uterus is held in place, by lots of different ligaments, and guess where those ligaments are connected they're connected to the bones. So when we've got misalignments in that bony structure, then yeah, you're gonna have twist and torsion, and pulling on those ligaments that are then pulling on those muscles. uterus is that giant muscles, so that's exactly right.

13:25

Yeah, there was a quote in here I was going to share about that. And it says that these problems talking about subluxation can cause misalignment of the uterine area that can encourage a baby to be mal positioned. The most extreme of these is the breech presentation where the baby is foot or feet down. Luckily, chiropractic care by an experienced doctor, and I'm going to add you know Webster certified can also help a good majority of butt down babies turn head down through the Webster technique. This technique is both safe and powerful. Everything in your body is connected and in pregnancy. That includes your baby, your body most definitely affects your baby's body. So get your body in line.

14:13

Exactly. And you know what looking at that I read that quote, and I loved it. I think looking at that quote, it's from someone Lauren McLean. And she is she's the founder of my breech baby.org So she's a woman who had a cesarean section for footling breech baby and she founded that and so she's passionate about both breech birth options and ways to avoid breech. But I guess to say that like that's not a quote from a chiropractor, you know, so it's kind of cool to hear, you know, that's it, like that's someone that's in I would consider in that childbirth education world. And so I think that's another way that childbirth education can add in some of those components. into those education classes. You guys got a lot of a lot of things to talk about, in your classes, lots of information to share, you know, that can be overwhelming to like, collect all of that and then to disseminate that in a non overwhelming so yes, it's kudos. To the educators as well trying to make that all manageable. Well, because

15:23

what's what I find fascinating and challenging is like, the body is full of all kinds of like, very like specific things that we can talk about. So I talk about I like lay it out, like okay, these are all the things inside you this is what's happening, but then connecting it to movement, and mental and emotional state like and how those things impact hormones and alignment of your body and your baby. It's like, okay, you have a uterus and you have a placenta and you have pelvis and like, you have your obviously the baby's in there and you have your sacrum and like all these things that I make, but it's all connected. And they that yes, and then there's like the flow which is impacted by hormones which can be impacted by external environments and mental things and emotional things. So it's like it's it's multifaceted. It's very nuanced, but tying it all together and realizing that you're connected to your baby, your body's connected to you, and what can you do to help? You know things go as smoothly as possible? Is the goal as at least as me as a childbirth educator and childbirth educator, and I'll be honest, I probably sometimes go too deep on that whole mind body connection, because I think it's so so powerful and important. So I sometimes get lost in in that so I'll be like, Okay, we've been here for two hours and we're just in section one talking about mind body connection. No,

16:46

I feel that too, because I geek out on. If someone even mentioned something like that in the office, I'm like, oh, let's just let's go through all of this and talk about all things. And then I can pick up my kid from school. So

17:03

it's easy to to go down that route. Now. There is well, in the article, there was someone the birth boot camp.

17:15

They I feel like the author talks to she asked Donna Ryan who's the founder and president of burn boot, a birth boot camp boot camp. Why she included Chiropractic in every 10 week series, she and her instructors teach and so you know, and that this was back in I guess this was early 2009 I think when she the childbirth educator I think it's nice to highlight that she connected with a Webster certified chiropractor who then was able to learn she was able to learn about okay, well how can chiropractic care make a difference and then add that into her childbirth education classes. So exactly. I think it's nice to when providers have a good relationship with other you know, like birth workers and birth providers because then you learn what those services are and then you can put that into what you do and what you know and how you help people. And so I think that was kind of kind of stood out to me as far as like, well, she was doing her research and saying, Okay, this is something I can add into my childbirth education classes.

18:27

Yeah. And that's so birth bootcamp is like a 12 week series, mostly in person, but they do some online stuff now, I think. But yeah, so what she does in what she did is began incorporating like from actual like Webster certified chiropractors and from other people who would be part of our support team, who they aligned with and brought them in and have been part of that curriculum, have them creating the curriculum had them teaching the curriculum had them, you know, sharing with their people, the students, and so she was like, I just appreciate that perspective of like, I can't miss I teach you all the things but I'm gonna bring in the people who can so that you can have this well rounded education. And she did began incorporating kind of web certified chiropractors as part of that.

19:13

That's, that's pretty cool. I liked I did like that part of the article because I liked that, you know, collaborative effort in wanting to provide that information for clients.

19:27

Yeah. Yeah, and I, I also wanted to mention about chiropractic care and breech babies. We've talked about it a little bit, but just understanding that how in in a typical hospital situation a woman with a breech baby is given, usually only one choice and that is C section. And unless you seek a care provider in the hospital in the hospital setting who will support breech birth, which is hard to find it does exist, but they're like unicorns, hard to find. I think understanding if you have a breech baby that most providers are going to recommend a cesarean birth and that's not because breech is not safe. It's because they're not trained in delivering breech babies. And so providers who have experience and have spent a lot of time learning about delivering breech babies, it's safe with them right so seeking out if your baby's breech and you want to ensure you can have a vaginal birth either way, then seeking a care provider who is who supports breech birth is really important, but also chiropractic care can help turn a breech baby can be part of the process and helping turn a breech baby. It can it can be the difference between a vaginal birth and a surgical birth and that's what they say in this article. And understand this, that having a vaginal birth for your first birth is really important to that downline effect if you want to have more babies so you know if you have if your first birth is a cesarean birth, then you have a greater chance of having a cesarean birth for your second. Now, VBAC is possible only. But just understand that chiropractic care can be an important key in reducing your risk of a surgical birth.

21:16

Yes, and, you know, just making an extra statement, in that kind of outline of things there is really with the Webster technique, and prenatal chiropractic care, in really helping with optimal fetal positioning. It really is a it's just those adjustments that are made for mom. You know, there's never anything done with the fetus and so it's all making sure pelvis and sacrum are aligned because like we said earlier, those ligaments from the uterus are connected to the bony structure of the pelvis, the sacrum, the pubic bone, like that everything's connected there. So when you have twisted torsion there, you can cause twist and torsion in those ligaments and in the uterus. And if we have twisted torsion there, then there's the potential that the baby is you know, fetus is not able to move as much as it wants to. And so if we can create that optimal alignment, optimal biomechanics and create some space, then that is where Venus is able to do you know, on its own, what it innately wants to do, and knows to do.

22:31

Yes, and this is why I refer to the Webster certified chiropractor when my clients are like, Who do I go see, I'm like, she's got all the words all the important information. I can't teach you about that. She knows that but I refer to you all the time and I refer to guard my big gear. God is

22:47

awesome. Yeah, no, and that's, I mean, but what you said to it is, it can come down to that difference between having that vaginal birth or a surgical birth and it can also come down to those thoughts and feelings of I did everything I could or what the hell just happened, you know, like it can also come down. It can come down to that. Because I do very vividly have, you know, a patient who had a C section with her first came in and baby was breech baby flipped creative her birth support team did everything still ended up with that C section for a variety of reasons. But felt, like 100% supported, empowered and happy and so there's that aspect too.

23:37

And that's what for myself, that's the goal. Yeah, that's the goal. And that's what we try and drive home is that you can't guarantee there are no guarantees. You know, I think some people come in and they want to check things off like okay, I got the midwife check. I got to do like check childbirth education, check chiropractic check, and it's okay, I don't things now. I expect my return. And yeah, I think with all those things, you have again, you have the best chance at achieving the best birthday available to you as possible. But that we Yeah, you there are no guarantees. That's why it's like it's not about those things. It's about how you feel, going through all those things. It's how you feel with your care provider. It's how you feel with your birth support team. It's how you feel while you're giving birth and bringing your baby into this world that lasts forever. And so part of that is that preparedness and the education and the birth support team and then your own work your own preparation for like being at peace with the work you've done to make this experience as good as possible that you were an active participant that you had that self determination to, to seek out the care that you deserved. And that whole process is what leads to that satisfied empowered feeling on the other side. It's it's a huge process, and that is one that I think requires a lot of effort and a lot of support. And this kind of support is not available to everyone and this is what I do wish was available to everyone that you know, don't say this is easy. I don't say everyone has access to it, but Gosh, darn it, if it was I think the world would be better. What you just said there, I'm

25:14

going to tie up that conversation. Oh, yes, I do. I do wish you know in my utopian society.

25:23

Yeah, that's what we're going for girl.

25:24

Oh, had access to this. Yes. I know. We had that community and building that tribe. I know. I know. This was fun going through and talking about the the article though.

25:37

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I

25:40

had a good time. Is there anything else you want to add from maybe that we didn't talk about or you know, I like I mean, your final thought really kind of hit home everything.

25:51

Yeah, well, I think one of the last ends of the quotes that we had highlighted is that chiropractic is an essential part of not just birth, but childbirth education, and it has the ability to change birth, as we know it, and I think we both agreed that that was a beautiful quote, inside of this article, and I wanted to share it as we closed out, and I hope that everyone found this, this format helpful, we definitely encourage reading the article and we'd love to hear your take on it. As with everything, we just always want to be having a conversation that is evolving, and you know, multifaceted and nuanced and I've I've just really enjoyed doing this with you, Shannon and I hopefully, will I think we've kind of want to do this some more. So

26:40

I know so yeah, reach out because if there's articles that you find that you you know, you the listener want, I don't know discussions on or something like that. That would be fun to go through, too as well. Yeah, and I same I hope I know. I hope the discussion just kind of ignited some, some new things and folks,

27:00

yeah, and as we always do, we will link this article who was authored by Sarah Clark. It did appear in magazine issue number 41 and 64. I guess they they showed it twice. And then we'll include links to anything else books. Or other podcast episodes that we mentioned in the notes, and I think that is all Dr. Shanna Yes ma'am.

27:23

Yes, ma'am. Always fun talking

27:25

with you. Alright guys, hey, if you like this episode, if you like other episodes, please be sure and tap SUBSCRIBE And leave us a review. Your review helps boost our podcast so that other people can listen to it and find it and we want to build a keep creating this free content for you guys. So definitely please leave us a review. we'd greatly appreciate it and we look forward to sharing a new episode. Next week. Now This You're ready.