Ep. 17 All About Birth Doulas with Rachael Hutchins

In today’s interview, doula Rachael is answering all the questions!  And yep, we’re talking about “what is a doula”  We might have defined it before in earlier episodes, but Rachael sheds some light on what brought her to this profession and how she approaches labor support specifically for her doula business and so much more.  What are some other questions we go over…….

• What’s the benefit of having a doula? (think of them as a trusted source and another layer of information!)
• What types of births can doulas support? (did you know there are postpartum doulas?)
• How does Rachael navigate hospital/OB births vs home births with midwives? (remember, a doula is focusing on you mama and your wants/needs/desires) 
• What resources does Rachael provide her clients? (think prenatal to postpartum and everything in between) 
• How has Rachael’s doula business evolved? (you definitely need to hear the latest updates of how she’s supporting mamas and her career)
• What are some of the biggest barriers to hiring a doula that Rachael hears from clients and the birthing community? (there are several, but most pertain to misconceptions - listen to the episode to dispel some of those misunderstandings)

Resources mentioned in the episode:

North Atlanta Birth Services

Spinning Babies

Episode 1 & 2 - Meet Your Hosts

Episode 3 - Building Your Birth Support Team

Episode 10 - Budgeting for Baby

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.  We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.  We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!  If you like what you are hear

Transcript

0:31

Hello hello and you are listening to the aligned birth podcast, I'm Dr. Shannon, and today is a fun interview day. Um, so what we do on these podcast is Rachael Hutchins and i She's my co host here with the podcast, and we have conversations amongst ourselves we do interviews with other birth professionals and fun stuff today is I'm going to actually interview her and go a lot more in depth with what she does in the doula world so Rachael Hutchins, she is a doula at your birth site Rachel, and she has tons and tons of information just like information overload overflow and it's amazing, and it's all pertaining to birth, pregnancy, motherhood postpartum all of those amazing things that we need to hear. And it's all at your birth rate, and she is a childbirth educator as well and so she throws all of that into the passion that she has for helping support the birthing community here locally but like worldwide too because you can access her website, anywhere, so I'm so excited to talk to her today because like I said we're going to go more in depth with what is a doula. What does the doula do How is her doula career evolved. What is it like working with her. All of those good things like what to expect when you work with her, and I'm hoping today to show steps, tell us some more wonderful insight into the information that she has so I'm so excited to talk to you again today, Rachel. Hi there, I'm so excited to be here. This is gonna be fun because we usually do have these wonderful flows and conversations. And I think today is gonna be a flow of conversation, but we really want to highlight some of those things that you do and really get to the nitty gritty of what's going on with you in the doula world and what you see and what you wish people knew and all of that good stuff, but

2:33

I'm so excited for that conversation thank you for wanting to do this and I think it's gonna be fun. I don't, you know, Being an interview chair makes me a little bit nervous, I don't know why cuz I can talk about this stuff all day every day, but

2:50

I'm super stoked to be here in the spotlight, I love it and but you shouldn't be in the spotlight because you have wonderful information to share. And, um, what I want to start with is what you know. So, Rachel and I, we obviously talk on this podcast a lot, but we also talk outside of that, where we're like not recorded.

3:11

We did this earlier in the week and I think I walked like two and a half miles in my neighborhood while we were just chatting about

3:16

things in life and just other things outside of the podcast but so we know what's kind of going on in each other's lives a little bit, especially in that, as it pertains to birth as well too and so I want to talk a little bit about how your doula career has evolved and changed just in, I would say even the short course of time that we've been doing this podcast.

3:40

Yeah, yes it has been quite the evolution, it's started a long time ago, actually it started about seven years ago after about a year after the birth of my first son, When I decided I wanted to become a doula um you know I had a doula for my birth with him and it was a really wonderful and positive and empowering experience and I remember during pregnancy and right after the birth just feeling so enamored with birth and pregnancy and the power that comes with it and the competence that comes with having a really satisfying experience. And I thought, okay, that's just because I was pregnant, and it didn't really go away. And that's when I knew there was something deeper there. And so I started my certification process, about a year after that birth my first birth, and I had a young baby at home and so I wasn't able to do the doula work full time, I did have other work I did during the day called my job job.

4:44

And yes,

4:47

and so I you know, took it slow, I took, you know, about one client, a month or one client every other month and just really sort of dipped my toe in, and then took some time off. About two years after that when we were trying to conceive our second son, which took a while and took a little bit of a toll on me and so I just took some time off kind of pulled away from it a little bit. And then after he was born, and about, I guess, maybe another year or two after that I got back into it, and just went headfirst back into it and decided also to get my childbirth education certification, and now the new my new evolution or the newest phase of my Doula work and now that I'm doing it more and wanting to be more sustainable, and my birth work I found that in the time that I've been a doula when I have seasons of kind of overwhelm and burnout and exhaustion, it's because I just don't have the support I need to be the first worker that I know I have the potential to be. And so, I have now partnered with my dear friend and fellow birth professional and amazing doula Hannah Atterbury, and we are formed, form, you know, in the process of formalizing our partnership and we're beginning to take clients who are due January of 2022 So both her and I are finishing out our independent doula work for this year, but we're heavy behind the scenes with getting our website up and, and just all the like, logistics and, and systems and stuff that we have to get in place to run that business, and her and I both have just a much larger vision that we share and that's why we decided to partner because we see the bigger picture and the benefit of sustainable birth work where we share call and we share clients we share the workload, so that we can serve more people and also take care of ourselves and our family, and that we hope one day to share our system and be able to like duplicate it for other doulas so that we can help other doulas do the same thing so really shifting when I think about where I started seven years ago, to where I'm at now is drastically different. So our new co doula partnership is called North Atlanta birth services, and we'll be offering the full spectrum of education and labor and birth doula support as well as postpartum doula support and newborn classes so it'll be a full spectrum service group so much

7:32

in there much in there I'm just writing writing writing notes, and I absolutely love this so here's one thought that comes to mind though, listening to that is, How long this journey has been for you because you talked about, you know, it was after your first baby so about seven years ago and then you dabble in it but you, it's like you come and go with it but you still feel that passion and you know that that passion is there and so all I kept thinking was like trust the process, listen to your gut, like, do what lights you up, and then just, it's like one step forward, I feel like that's what you've been able to do with this as well, and how you have grown and evolved through this whole process,

8:18

for sure, and it is like just keep moving forward but also hitting pause whenever it felt like I needed that and trusting myself and trusting giving myself some grace because I definitely had a lot of guilt that I had started it like gung ho and then kind of had to pull back a little bit when life handed me some different situation so just, It's this ebb and flow and just being patient with yourself and when I look back I couldn't imagine. Like when I started imagining myself seven years and where I'm at and doing what I'm doing it just seemed impossible. And so yeah, that but that keep going. That not giving up that listening to myself, which is very easy to give up on the sort of inner tugs and desires, especially when it's looks very non traditional to most people as far as what the work looks like the type of work it is you know trying to explain to people what it is I do you know you kind of get this like insecurity about like people just don't understand. And you got to get out you got to get over that. So, but yeah, I'm stoked that I'm still here and I'm also, you know, just think stars align and I think us reconnecting, you know, you got me in touch with Hannah, which was a beautiful connection and we've been in touch and I was her doula and like now her and I have the partnership we're starting a new and I had this partnership so just like the beauty and all of that and not even if we didn't plan it obviously couldn't have predicted out any of this and it gives me chills as I'm saying it because like the people who have come into my life through this have changed me and just make me want to keep doing the work that I'm doing.

10:04

I know I know the word that kept coming to nine to was like the beauty of it so and I love the vision that there is that larger vision for North Atlanta birth services, and I know you and I have talked in will we're hopefully going to do an episode to where you enhance are both on so we can dive more into, you know the specifics of what that looks like. And then also, You know, touching on that larger vision, and that birth worker sustainability so yeah, I just do love that aspect of like being patient and graceful of yourself and knowing I know I personally struggle with that. If I feel overwhelmed and kind of like pushing to perseverance, and just like when is it smart to like, I love the word grit and I love those things and all of that but it's also like when do we know to like step back and see the bigger picture and watch the ebbs and flows come and so I think you're, you know, looking back on it now, right, you can kind of see the beauty of that but it does take a bit to go there now you had mentioned some issues, or the aspect of people looking at you like, so

11:15

what is it that you do.

11:18

So I would love to have those good discussions or that good like definition of, you know what is a doula and what are the benefits of having a doula. For sure,

11:31

yeah I mean I either come across people who like perk up when I say I'm a doula and they're like, your doula and they get all excited I'm like oh you're my person we meet, or I get the perplexed, do what, what, they have no idea. So, and that's fine, I have started to see those as opportunities to inform people and once they hear what I have to say most of them say, Well, who wouldn't want to do what, and then that person maybe will shares it with someone else that might end up hiring a doula one day so receiving the conversations that are kind of like uncertain about what it is I do as an opportunity to share, and so I do that by definition is someone with you continuously during labor offering emotional and physical and informational support so that you can feel respected and supported and empowered and safe and healthy and satisfied as you bring new life into this world and so you know the term doula originated a very very very very very long time ago and it's actually associated with like the word slave kind of like servant or slave to the person and doula can be used. There's lots of different kinds of doulas there's bereavement doulas there's infertility doulas labor and birth doulas which is what I focused on, there's postpartum doulas so doula is just sort of like this, Shepherd, this person who is alongside you throughout a process that requires additional support and it comes in the emotional support, physical support which is primarily during the actual birth, and then the informational support so saying that we're a resource to you, a trusted experienced educated resource so instead of going to Google, you go to your doula like me, and we're in conversation a lot during pregnancy with questions and answers so that you can have the information you need to make the decision that's best for you, no matter what it is and it's not about so the another little thing that people think is that doulas are just for like unmedicated births or natural births or home births or whatever, and that is not the case a doula is for any birth that you feel like you want that extra support. And so that, let's say you want an epidural I can help you learn more about what an epidural is what it's like to receive an epidural, the procedure, the side effects benefits risk, and then helping you understand how to still have a safe and healthy birth within with an epidural if that's what you want. I'm not here to say, don't get an epidural or do get an epidural or don't do this or I'm here to say here's the information here are some other places you can learn a little bit more about it, and encourage that sort of maximum self determination in my clients so that they can take the onus of it and I'm just there to guide them, support them and help them process it along the way, so that when they get to the birth, they're not blindsided or feel like they're getting bulldoze by hospital policy or authoritarian providers or anyone who doesn't, you know, that they hadn't had conversations with before the Versa that they're a little bit more in charge of how it goes and that tends to lead to a more satisfying birth experience which leads to a more satisfying and Healthy Start to motherhood, which has a ripple effect that can last for a lifetime and I have yet to find a simple way to say what a doula is but that.

15:08

That was your long elevator speech, there was no but because it just keeps flowing, it's like, Oh, but wait, this is also this and this and this and this, it's, it's just

15:17

intertwine, it is not just like, oh we help you have a good birth, it is just so from the time you hire me until well after the baby's born, I'm just a supportive resource for you in like of multitude of ways. And so I always just, I don't even know I've been working actually for a while to come up with like a great, simple statement for what a doula is but it is multi layered and the benefits lasts a lifetime and that's hard too hard to help people see until you've walked through the experience with or without a doula.

15:55

No, definitely and I was even going to say like it's generational. The, the impact, you know. Yeah, so, because when you have those, and we've said this before too that like we want, you know women to have better birth but we also want to feel better about those bursts so it's you know when you approach something and you're like you know what I have maximized my sources, and my information and my support and I have done everything in my power, you know, to make sure or ensure that I have the outcome that I want and whether that outcome happens or not, you can at least feel that, you know what I did what I could hear, you know, and I listened to hear and I researched and you felt supported,

16:42

and that's exactly right and that is I always start there with my clients, as far as I like to, you know, find out where they're at, what their ultimate desires are and if it's let's say they want to go for an unmedicated birth and they want to avoid an epidural. I always say let's focus less on that like one thing that you want to avoid, and focus on all the other ways you can support yourself to ensure you have the best chance at having the birth that you want. And part of that is being like flexible and firm at the same time and I talked a lot about how the path to giving birth is not linear. It is not a straight A to Z if you do this then this will for sure happen. It's unpredictable, it's unique for each person it unfolds differently for each person it's windy and curvy and bumpy and full of unexpected things that might happen. So, it's how you navigate that and you can navigate it with ease when you have people on your birth team who support you respect you and give you space to make decisions that are right for you, so that when you are navigating the things that come up during your birth you do it with confidence and and empowerment that leaves you feeling good on the other side no matter what issues arose or no matter what if you ended up in with an epidural or ended up with a Syrian birth and you didn't want one or didn't know that that was part of that that was going to happen like that. When you get to the other side of that birth you can look back and say like you just said, I did everything I could, I hire the right people I aligned with the right people I informed myself I sought out a great provider I, you know, took the childbirth education class I took care of my body and my baby, you know, all like you do all these things and when you get to this I didn't I want people to know that they did everything they could, and that they are in that percentage that having necessary birth is necessary for the safety of mom and baby and there is 10 to 15% of Syrians need to happen so I don't want people to feel disappointed if they got the epidural when they didn't originally want that or they had the care when they of course that wasn't what they originally wanted I want people to feel like okay, this is, this is the unpredictable path that happened but I navigated it with, with support and ease and autonomy.

19:03

Yes. Now you said, I wrote down focus on the good I love that approach you take with your patients or your clients because coming in, and you know they could be fearful and worried about something along the birthing process, because I, I just think in today's society that there is a lot of fear that surrounds birth just because it's that unpredictable aspect of things, but you're kind of like okay so if we want to avoid something. Well then let's let's not focus on this let's focus on what are the things that we can do to help navigate not wanting to have that, you know like focusing on those good things and so that that is where you feel empowered, you know, because that's where it's like okay we're going to focus on these four things that we can do to help make sure that we don't have the effort or, or whatever it is that, you know, whatever it is that someone doesn't necessarily want and I think that's an important aspect that you share

20:06

exactly I had a client recently who expressed, you know other other fear of having necessary on birth like it was just like her top like I do not want this and, and I always do. First, like recognize and validate the fear, right, I'm always like that is very real and in our country with high severity and rates like, I get it and, and help them feel seen and heard and their fears and then sort of work backwards and be like okay well what do we know we need to do to reduce your risk of having an unnecessary Syrian, and we go from there. And then that helps reduce the fear because they're like, oh, oh, every time I there oh I didn't know I could ask for intermittent fetal monitoring which would give me more movement during birth, if everything is healthy and safe for the baby and that gives me a greater chance of avoiding the epidural and then that gives me a greater chance of having a vaginal birth so it's like, you work backwards and say okay, you know, and then if I didn't know that about the fetal monitoring it opens up a new conversation with our care provider to learn about the options that their hospital and or wherever they're giving birth, and, and then learn about the options and have those conversations and that's exactly where the empowerment comes from is because you become that active participant when I start identifying I can kind of say okay this is what you want in the end, this is kind of what will help you avoid that, what are we going to do, what are you going to do to get there, and we can't just say, I don't want an epidural, I don't want us to Syrian and then not do anything. You have to take an active role in, if a tire doula that's great that can certainly help reduce all of that. But the biggest thing is being your own your own advocate your own voice, your own self determined, individual person to reach that goal, and if not a doula is not always the answer. Yeah I am obviously pro doula but I also want to empower individuals to know that they can do it without a doula and I know that sounds crazy saying that because it's my job but I know that having a doula will absolutely reduce the risk of Syrian it'll reduce the risk of using pain drives like an epidural reduces all kinds of things and then it increases your overall satisfaction with the birth so I know the benefits and I will share those with anybody who asked but hopefully it makes sense of what I'm saying is that the ultimate goal of being a birth professional with the bigger picture view is that we empower women to trust themselves to be autonomous, to seek the care that aligns with them and to ultimately have a birth that leaves them feeling seen respected supported and ready to take on motherhood,

22:43

yes, no and that's it and that's exactly. That's exactly right. You know, finding that voice within you too and being able to speak up, so it sounds to that like you, um, and different models of care, so I kind of want to get into, what does your doula labor and birth support look like if you're working with different birth professionals, you know, as far as with that hospital, as opposed to maybe being at home, maybe that VBAC C section setting like OB nurse aspect of care in contradiction to like the midwife aspect of care and so it sounds like you're able to, not all of those birth professionals are going to spend a lengthy amount of time with you, you know, and so you may have questions that you want to ask, but it's kind of some of those might be okay we've got this appointment time but we've got to get to this next appointment and so it sounds like you're able to be that resource as well too. For additional information, and so they can come to you with more questions.

23:54

Yes. And so, for any type of birth a doula is beneficial so hospital birth with an OB hospital birth with a midwife necessary in birth, vaginal birth after cesarean like all those you mentioned a doula is beneficial, and I say if you're searching for doula and you know you're going for a VBAC then search for a doula who has experience, supporting VBACs because they are different. If you're if you know you're having a planned cesarean then search out a doula who supports that. And if you're having a home birth search out a doula who has experienced supporting a home birth, and understand that our support really doesn't change too much. It's just that you want someone that you feel confident will serve you the best in whatever you, whatever your unique circumstances are, and our focus is 100% on the client on the birthing person, not, we don't, I don't communicate directly with the OB I don't communicate directly with the midwife, that's the birthing person's responsibility because they hired their care provider. And then they hired me, so we're all part of the team, but it's not I would never interfere with, I would never interrupt or say oh no we're doing this, or this is what the client wants or no it's the client's responsibility to have that communication I'm just there to gently remind them of their options to ask questions to ask for time to remind them of their original like if they had some specific desires starting out, and then they have to be the one to say okay, here are my questions. Can I have some more time to think about it. And so that's the dynamic, however I'm always working supportively with the care provider, the nurses, the midwife at home, the student midwife whoever else is on the birth team. My goal is to ensure ensure cohesive, you know, non confrontational homeostasis, you know, I don't want to be creating more conflicts, I'm always going to work with the flow, the energy and try to make kind of balance it out, you know, and be supportive be supportive of the care provider and their efforts to help take care of the birthing person I tell my clients that their care provider OB or midwife, their main focus is on the health and well being of mom and baby. And then my focus is like that emotional, physical, continuous there to provide resources so together, that's like, great, like we kind of, you know, especially with if you hire like if you're birthing in a hospital and you have either an obstetrician or midwife, they don't spend a ton of time with you prenatally, and they don't spend a ton of time with you during labor. Yet people assume this is my care provider, they've got me. And I was like that's not necessarily the case you know you might have a 15 minute appointment with them every few weeks, and you want to have lots of questions so I help bridge that gap. So it's not that I know anything more or different than your care provider, it's just that they're limited on time and resources because they tend to have more clients that they're serving. And so, I help bridge that gap and so I'm always like, call me or box me after your prenatal and let me know what questions you have and I'll send you articles or resources or more before the appointment I send them, you know, they, we get a list of questions together or whatever so we're, I'm helping maximize that experience for them so that they feel like they're getting all they need. And so, you certainly cannot do it with just to do like you should have a trained professional looking after the health and well being, who has the clinical side of things that training. I do not. That is not my scope. And so, I don't ever try and act like I know what's going on medically, I try and support emotionally and send information and encourage them to just keep asking questions, so the difference with a home birth midwife is that you get a lot more time with the home birth midwife at your prenatal appointments, so they're they're really tending to a lot of your needs, including the emotional and informational side because they want you to bet that that model of care tends to be a lot more involved, but having a doula is still very beneficial because we can still bridge that gap we can still be that continuous in between appointment support and then that support at the birth again once you're at the birth the midwife is really focusing on the health and well being of the mom the baby, but you still have a lot of other needs, and we help support the partner, we help balance out, you know, all the things. So home birth or hospital birth there are many benefits in it and it looks slightly different but hopefully what I'm saying about my role. Makes sense, in, in whatever, whatever environment I'm supporting birth in

28:51

yes no all of that makes sense because then you put it so well in that if you are birthing at a hospital and with an OB or whether, you know, a midwife, they do see a lot more clients, and so it can be hard to maybe get all your questions answered or to know what to ask and those type of things. So that's what I love you, being that resource to say, should they can come to you be like hey they talked about this today, or they want to do this next time or something like that, what is this and what is going on, and you're able to provide that information. Yes, but it's important to note too, and what you had talked about is that you are not looking at that clinical aspect of childbirth, and that you, you know, that's, that is the position of the midwife for the OB like that is what, that's their focus so yes they, I mean obviously they want, you know everybody to they want everybody birth that be blissful, but their focus and all of their energy and intent is on, how is this birth unfolding and all of the clinical training that they have that it makes you there available to really help with the birth and coupled with support. And, hey, remember this is what you said you wanted to do and this is what we talked about in birth affirmations and let's set up the room this way like all of those aspects that you can add in, so yes, all of that made perfect sense.

30:22

Yeah, I feel like I see when my clients really see the benefit is when it's not when things are going perfectly well, you know, it's when something has come up they're they're the care provider has noticed something or wants to do something and they come in with some information, and I'm there, I'm listening, I'm absorbing the client does what we've talked about doing which is asking about the benefits and risk and don't have to do it now and what are the alternatives and then they ask for more time and then they leave and we all process together. And I feel like that's what my clients are like we've felt like you. That's what we needed most in this whole process because it's hard to anticipate what that will feel like before birth, because obviously we don't focus on like the things that will go sideways and it's hard to even know all the variations of labor and so just knowing that you have that extra person there to lean on and it just takes the burden off the partner so if you have a birth support partner spouse there and they just want you to be safe and healthy and they carry a totally different set of worries and stresses and, and they know you intimately and like it, they might handle stress differently. Yeah, he didn't know reminding me if a lot of times the partner is the one skeptical going in and then afterwards they're like doulas for everyone. Yes,

31:42

yes I love when that happens, they're like wow, because they can see they've kind of got that outside view. So, now, what would you tell someone about when is the best time to hire a doula within that pregnancy.

32:00

Yeah that's a good question and so I always like to say, anytime. I think, definitely. At the beginning of the second trimester is a good place, because then you have the rest of the pregnancy, you've got my first trimester, which you're not maybe feeling great, you know, just mean adjusting to being pregnant and all of that but settling into that second trimester, you get the rest of the pregnancy to work with the together and get to know each other and get the, you know, lots of time learning and, and all of that before the birthday I said beginning in the second trimester however it's never too late to hire a doula so I've gotten hired when someone's in labor, and they decide they're ready to do it, I'm sure they thought about it, the whole pregnancy but just hesitated for whatever reason and labor starts and they're like okay I need this. And so you know there's no it's never too late to hire a doula and but I think, beginning of the second trimester, if you know you want to doula that's optimal time.

33:01

I love it now. What resources do you provide. Once someone does hire you.

33:10

Yes, so lots of resources. I put together a, like a prenatal packet that I give to you at our first meeting together, and it is full of has birth affirmations in it and positions like images of positions that you can do for labor and birth, breastfeeding, resources and postpartum Lange and plan. And so it's just full of like printable tangible stuff that you can just like, add to your reading, you know, it's people like to kind of have that, that physical, and it's an a pretty folder and it's got all kinds of information in it, and then on top of that I give access to a online breastfeeding course it's the natural breastfeeding program. So that's included in my Doula package it's like a three hour online breastfeeding course so they get that as well. I share a lot about spinning babies I send resources with the daily activities that spinning babies has for you know the movement and activity and balance and gravity and using movement to help encourage optimal fetal positioning during labor and birth. I also share about building their birth support team. And I give resources about ensuring they've got, you know, They're seeing a chiropractor or a massage therapist or physical therapist pelvic floor therapist, making sure that they have their body squat I heard that term recently and I love it. But that they have thought about right so they've heard the doula so they're like, going in the right direction. In my opinion, and I'm okay. Are you seeing a chiropractor Are you do you have a fair, a physical therapist, are you getting massages, like, how are you taking care of your body, what are your needs, you know, and providing some referrals and some information on that bill so they're building the rest of their birth team out, and I share recipes I'm big on nutrition and healthy habits so smoothie recipes and protein bar recipes and stuff like that. The other day I had a client reach out and wanted some breakfast ideas so I sent a bunch of healthy breakfast recipes for her. I do a birth planning workbook, and a birth plan template, if that's what they want to do. And then other local referrals. So I have a tremendous network of other professional to support people during pregnancy and after. And so whatever need arises, I have already done the research and made connection with lots of local people so I shared that with my clients as well,

35:48

so much so much information and that's so good though, because, I mean that's the whole point that's how you feel supported in birth is you can at least say okay I've got all these referrals, and it's up to that birthing couple to say, Okay, this is where we want to go right or not go. So right

36:07

now my donation, and I understand that sounds like a lot, right. Oh my gosh, how do I do all that and I drip it out over time. Like, I that's not all like thrown on you at once and it's through the course of conversation and me listening to maybe your needs, and I'm curating what I'm sending but that's like, all of it and it's it comes at different times so it's a lot more manageable to like consume.

36:32

Yes, and it's always it's kind of like just just look at one of these things. Yeah, at a time, you know, like, you know, how do you eat an elephant. One bite at a time so it's like, I don't know where that thing came from because that's really gross, but it's the same thing, it's just that little bit of. That's how you manage anything you know that little bit at a time and so I love that you give it out at those intervals, and that people have access to that now. You also have childbirth education courses as well. Correct. Correct, yes. And they, where do those come in, and what do those look like.

37:12

Yeah, so those are separate and so some people want the childbirth education and they don't want me as a doula our doula at all or maybe they've hired another doula but then that delivered them to my childbirth education because they don't offer it so it's its own thing, and so you can do the childbirth education class separately, sometimes they take the childbirth education class and then they want me as their doula. So sometimes that feeds into the work as a doula. So it's, it can be taken in a lot of different ways, and then some people hire me as a doula and don't want the, the full comprehensive childbirth education, so that's not required and I don't include that in my package because it is, is a lot more and if that's not what they're wanting I do have it as an add on. And then I do for the future Hannah and I are planning on creating a mini childbirth education course that we will offer as part of our doula package for our birth clients so that they have access to like some quick educational content because we believe it's fundamental and having a safe and healthy birth so it's like our birth doula work, and the education go together. So we're going to come up with a key now like a one hour. Mini crash course on the basics of childbirth, like physiology, so that our clients can have access to that so when we begin taking clients then that will be part of our package as well. That's so good I

38:46

love that many aspects of things because I know we've talked about this on episodes before as far as working with people and then not knowing that, you know once you do have the baby. We still have to deal with the placenta. Yeah right, So it's like it's literally like let's just go back to the basics of anatomy, physiology, and touch base on what is going on here, you know, and I think that's important. I guess that's so important.

39:13

Yes I do. Well, that's why I became when I did the certification for the childbirth education because practicing as a doula and not having that access or and having clients that either weren't taking it or weren't seeking it.

We those bursts tend to be tended to be a little bit harder on both mom and me as the doula and so I found that when I could introduce the education component or that they took a childbirth education class I was like, they had just a greater understanding of the major physiological event that's occurring, and the variations and how to navigate them and so it just is like sets them up for a greater a better experience. And so I wanted to be able to offer that as well. So, that is why I added that in.

0:35

Yeah, and I'm looking forward to what I'm how some of this evolves when you and Hannah start diving deep into that as well too. Yeah, yeah. Now, what do you think some of, I guess, the barriers are for people hiring a doula what are some of those hesitations or maybe, maybe misconceptions or just what are some of those issues that you think are out there as far as having people want to hire a doula,

1:12

for sure. I think the biggest barrier is just not understanding what it is we do and the benefits that come with having that kind of support during such a vulnerable and such a monumental time. So, I think, you know, society and culture, what we see in movies and TV. That's just doulas aren't mainstream. And so I think overcoming that like lack of awareness, or people just not fully understanding what you're doing the benefits that's always the biggest barrier to overcome, but most of the time if people are just completely clueless and they're not searching for a doula so you know once someone is curious about a doula some of the things that I have to overcome. As far as helping them make a decision is misconceptions about what we do. Some people think we help deliver the baby, and that we're like clinical. And so helping them understand that we're not clinical and then they're like, well then why do I need you. Right. I just need help with the baby. And so helping them understand now there's so much more to it and help them see that bigger picture and that, that you need the clinical support but you also need that emotional, physical and informational support to balance and that both are necessary for helping people see the bigger picture in the long term effects, long term benefits of having a birth, that leaves you healthy and save can last a lifetime, so as not to mention the competence that comes from it as well for our mamas who have a positive birth experience but other barriers to overcome is well one now that we're dealing with his limitations to hospital so some of us, maybe hire you, but the hospital has restrictions on doulas being there, so therefore they feel like they're stuck and can't really either hire you or don't want to switch, hospitals, and that's always hard because I'm like well you can hire me kind of prenatally and I can support you until the birth or support you virtually during the birth or you can switch to another hospital and that's usually not their choice, but some people do decide to switch. So, based on where they're birthing that could be a barrier, and then price, usually when people hear about our pricing, they tend to get a little bug guide and kind of like, again it's seeing the value it's, it's understanding how much time you spend together prenatally, how you're kind of on call all the time text and phone if they have questions, and then being on call for their actual birth is a four week period between 38 weeks and 42 weeks, which means you're not going out of town and you're, you know, not getting too far from home in case they go into labor. So the things that we're doing, and then the postpartum support as well, that, that has value. So, we set a price that we feel very good about and that is in line with the pricing in our area but then people see it and either they're like yes, sold, or it's hard to swallow because they don't quite see the value and that's a hard one to convince because it's like, I can't tell you all day long, everything that we include but the value probably comes once you've experienced it, so it's maybe sharing referrals or other people's stories of working with so that they can try to see that as valuable to them, but I definitely, you know, that's, that's a constant I'm sure lots of different industries is is pricing and overcoming that challenge.

4:53

Now, and that is true because now that we've gone through everything and listening even to your seven year journey with this and all the classes that you have taken and all the trainings you have taken and then the classes that you have created from that and the families that you have supported. You know, it's your experience is valuable, and your information is valuable and so it really is that, you know, helping people understand and see that value. Yes, so I know. Well, all we can do is just keep helping people understand what to do is, and then talk about some of those misconceptions. And then for people to share their birth stories, you know, and highlight. This is how I was able to do it, and this is what I think was invaluable to that process.

5:43

Yes, and those are always when people call me and they're like my so and so either had you as their doula or had a doula. Like I know I want to do a little because of what they shared with me and those are usually the most convincing stories is when, when people share their birth stories and their positive experiences and, and I do like to say that when I say positive experience that doesn't mean having a certain kind of birth, I say that, and I my clients who are usually champion me are the ones who had some challenges arise and still felt really great on the other side of it, because they had the support of a doula and that's when they, They're more convincing than anyone. So, I always like for people to hear those stories too, because it's not about doing perfectly for it to be positive.

6:26

Ah, that's amazing. I mean that's so true, because then right then they felt supported and it's like hey, you know, things went sideways, but this is how I was able to manage and deal with it. And it was because I had that support. Yeah so, I love it. Anything else that you want to share, or state about what it is you do and what lights you up and all of that.

6:54

I think I just am always wanting to encourage anyone listening who is curious more curious if you're curious, first of all, kudos, because being curious and listening to this conversation, and being interested is the first step, and so if you're having those tugs just listen to them and follow your intuition and trust yourself. My goal as a birth worker is to, to help more birthing people more women tap into their own innate wisdom and power and strength that already exists. It's not, I'm not here I don't give that to you, like you have it, and so if people are listening, and are feeling that tag I just encourage you to lean in and just keep being curious, keep looking into it, keep doing some research keep asking questions, and with each little thing, it'll lead you further and further toward the thing that you need to, to do or have and so with each thing you do it, kind of presents the next step and next door so don't get too overwhelmed by the decision making process just keep going forward.

8:01

I know lean into it and I love how you encourage with that. It's like the, it's just like Wizard of Oz like Dorothy you had all the power all along like you've got the power so it's just sometimes we just got a unique and a little bit of help to bring it out and I love, I love that that's what you do. Um, now here's some fun stuff for you because a lot of stuff that we talked about today, we've talked about in other episodes, and there's ways for you to go and learn even more so we have budgeting for baby episode 10 So if you are, you get that sticker shock or you really want this and you see the value in it. Well let's start working on that budget so check out episode 10 For that, we share all of our birth stories and we've had our interviews with each other and episodes like one and two, where we talk and interview each other and talk about our birth stories and how we got to where we are because you can hear some of that passion in our stories and learn even more about Rachel's journey into her doula work and also one of my favorites is always that building your birth support team. And so, that's so important for and we talked about that today. So building that verse support team. And having that doula part of it so I'm so thankful that you joined me today and we got to dive a little bit deeper into what it is that you do.

9:20

Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share more about this amazing work, I appreciate you so much, Shannon.

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