Ep. 11 Creating a Birth Plan

Important trigger warning: Traumatic birth events are discussed. Creating a birth plan can be an overwhelming and intimidating process, but as Doula Rachael and Dr. Shannon discuss today, the process can be so important and beneficial.  In this episode we discuss our own personal birth plans (which happen to be very different from each other’s!) We share how we started the birth planning process and what we learned by creating those plans. We work to pull back the veil of misconceptions surrounding birth plans. Birth can be unpredictable but that doesn’t mean birth plans are pointless.  The process of creating a birth plan is greater than the plan itself.

Here you will learn how to “be the bamboo” when creating your birth plan and while navigating your non-linear path to giving birth.  You will also learn what to consider when creating your birth plan (IV fluids, cervical exams, monitoring, pain medications, comfort tools, delivery room environment, pushing, umbilical cord, placenta delivery, newborn care, and so much more!).

Birth does not have to go a certain way to be empowering. Your mental, emotional and educational preparation alongside respectful and supportive care will help you have the empowering birth experience you want and deserve.

This is a great combo of our personal and professional experiences.

Check out Your Birth Site Rachael’s Video: “Birth Plans are Pointless! Or are they?”

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.

We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!

If you like what you are hearing and you don’t want to miss our newest episodes, be sure and tap subscribe. Your support is greatly appreciated.

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Transcript

0:13

Hello Hello, and welcome to the aligned birth Podcast. Today, it's me, Dr. Shannon and your verse that Rachel is here as well so we're doing another conversation. And today's conversation is all about birth plans.

0:32

There is a process in planning things right so there's a way that we go about it just with all things in our life. And so, we also think that it's very important to look at the process of creating a birth plan, and so today we're excited to talk about our own individual birth plans because they have are very very different between us and even probably between our own children, our own birth.

1:00

We want to talk to you about some of the misconceptions things that you see maybe there's some resistance with creating birth plans until we want to talk about some of those things, and how to overcome that resistance as well and then different types of birth plans that you can have and things to look at, as you're creating, and going through the birth planning process. So, welcome, welcome Rachel, I'm excited to talk to you today about this. I am super excited for this conversation, It's one of my favorite things to talk about, so I can't wait to share more today. Before we get into it, did you want to share a little bit about your personal birth plan. Sure, yeah. So for my first so, um, you know, definitely go listen to our first couple episodes, because that's where Rachel I do talk a lot, back and forth as far as how we got to where we are and our birth do play a part in that, but, um, with my first, I you know I recently found my birth plan, I was cleaning out things and I was like, Oh wow, because that did not go like nothing with according to my birth.

2:13

So, you know, I will admit that I have that resistance when it comes to that because that first one didn't go according to plan.

2:23

And so I wanted a you know a hospital birth but I wanted an unmedicated vaginal hospital birth that was kind of like, I guess that would be the theme I would put it under and then I ended up with that emergency C section. So, with that first birth plan.

2:44

It said, it seems so superficial like I could have gone more in depth with it I think and research things a little bit more because it was more like, no, I really don't want to get an epidural. Well that's great, but what are the things that you're going to do to maybe help you not get an epidural like that's where that's what was missing in mind so maybe that's what my conversation would be like what was missing from my birth plan.

3:17

So that first. That's the big thing that comes to mind it was more like, oh, a little checkbox I just use what the hospital gave me because I didn't take an independent childbirth class, and it was like, Oh, I don't want this girl and I would like to have this type of music play and it just, it was so superficial, like find the things that would support the, the, the boxes you were checking, right, it was missing that asset and I, maybe I didn't know to ask further, you know, it's almost like you need to check that and then say okay, well, how are you how are you gonna do that, what are what are the options are when my app. Yeah and that's what we're going to cover today. Sorry I jumped right into that. I think it was great because that is your personal unique experience that left you feeling probably a little sour. A little bird Yeah, I read it I told you I just found that birth plan and I shredded it and it was very cathartic for you. I was like, That is not, I was like that just was not, which is fine but it's also, you know, that's what I learned from it, it's like man, it could have been a lot more in depth, I could have felt more supported with my birth plan than just checking on the box. Yeah, and I think that's a lot. I think with the internet and and people's perception or misconception and we'll talk more about that later but on the birth plan is that I will go and I'll find a cute template on Pinterest and I'll print it and I'll check the boxes, and there's my birth plan, and it's missing. It's the me that that is depth, the depth and understanding what each of those things mean understanding how to truly avoid them if you want to avoid them how to delay them how to, if you need them. So this is always my thing, understanding that birth is unpredictable, it is not linear, like a lot of people say, like, I can have a plan and they can completely go sideways so I have a plan, it's sort of like, well, because if and when things arrive, you've considered those options and you've thought about what you want and you know how to ask questions, to explore all available options and gather the information so that you can make decisions and then kind of pick back up on your birth plan and sort of use it as a guiding tool it is not a one way or the highway it is, I think when people are too rigid or too tight to it is when it creates that disappointment. And that lead down instead of seeing if it's just a tool to help you learn and then to guide you and then to also communicate with your care provider.

5:54

And we'll go into that but I do feel like your experience is very real and I am so sorry because I know that after your birth that that probably felt very, like, Why have I had this birth plan. Yeah, I was like This is stupid, like I just me. I was like, so then I think the second time I don't even know if I had a birth plan. I mean when I think about it, because all I, my focus on that second time around was more of, I'd really like to have a VBAC, and my provider was very open and accepting of that, you know, based on that first birth because I stuck with the same practice and so they were very supportive of that. So that was the focus there and I did what I felt I needed to do to support myself and feel comfortable with going that route, you know, and now than to I knew some of the pain because it wasn't just, you know see certainly I also pushed for two and a half hours it was labor for 27 hours and then had the C section so like I knew what it felt like to the contractions like I knew that type of thing and so yeah I would have liked to have had an unmedicated but that didn't happen, which is okay but I was able to have that feedback so it was more I think that birth plan took on a different aspect of like okay well what do I want it to be, how, How do I split myself for it to be different, right, like I don't want to go through that again so that was kind of the, I guess it was a different thought process for me with that, with the second one, probably in your mind what you wanted and didn't want because you had already had that first experience to, to, to inform you to show with you and do it'd be your a bit more clear and I think I see a lot of the time for a second or third whatever burst that people are like there they don't feel like they need the birth plan as much because they've thought through it before and even if they are doing it differently, they're like okay it's in my mind and really what matters is that you've whether or not you actually put anything on paper or actually give a physical birth plan, it's that you are thinking about it and I imagine you were thinking about it and working through it a lot more with your preparing for your second because you are very determined to do it differently. Right, so it was the focus was, was different. It wasn't so much like oh well this checkbox and maybe I'll do this I don't know, it was like okay well I'm gonna do X, Y, Z, and that's that focus so more valuable, that's where I want to recognize is just checking the box is selling you sure not a birth plan. So when you didn't actually have a physical birth plan but you were doing, you were figuring out exactly what you needed to do exactly at birth and that's what I want people to take away from like the birth planning process, because you were like, You didn't have to have the template but you were working through all those things to be like okay, what can I do prenatally, what conversations do I need to have with my care provider, what are the options hospital like you were doing all that and that is valuable, that is where you end up with a I think a more empowering experience. Exactly, versus the checkbox exam, and I think too, I'd like to think that I still would have felt empowered. Had I ended up with that same birth as before, but I would have known well hey, you know I did try x y and z I did look at these things because I didn't look at it last time around or, you know, Those type of things so I do like to think that I would have had that same or similar reaction. Yeah and that's my goal with my clients and my students is to help them see that no matter what, windy curvy bumpy path you have to giving birth, that you felt at each turn and curve and bump that you were supported and that you had some autonomy and that you have the space to make a decision, because, again, if and then if you end up in giving, like an epidural if you didn't want one or having necessary and if that wasn't part of the plan, you don't. Ideally, and the best case scenario you were like okay I did everything I could and that where you feel good about your birth, no matter how it unfolds, you feel empowered and confident because that affects how you go into motherhood and it's saying that it's not about doing it a certain way doing it naturally and unmedicated in the water, equals and empowering birth, no, no, doing it with support and doing it with autonomy and doing it with at your in your own way, where you feel supported and respected and trusted and listened to and all of that is what makes an empowering birth. Exactly. I love everything that you just said, That's so. And that's the thing I like to say a lot too that how we give birth matters and how we feel about how we give birth matters, and that's the big thing and it's that whole autonomy and feeling supported now with your birth. What did. What did you do, what was your birth plan like and was it different for each of your births and did it go according to plan.

11:04

So for my first, I had, like I think I shared in one of our first or second podcasts about watching the documentary business of being born. That's right. The Ricki Lake one right, if you like. Yeah, and I still I talked about this all the time I share with my clients, and that makes me so happy. I just love it. It transformed everything for me I'm just so grateful to have seen that documentary, while pregnant with my first because. And it resonated with me and I, and I acted on it right so I that exposed me to what a doula was and water birth, and all of that and what that did is it led me to hiring a doula and my awesome doula at either our first or second meeting brought me like a birth plan worksheet, and I was like, What's this.

11:59

And she was like well it's just some things to consider for your births and things that might come up so you can have a say you know you can kind of go ahead and start thinking about your preferences and, and what you would want if X Y and Z happened and I was like oh my goodness this is amazing. And you know we were sitting there were working through it and most of it like I was like okay okay and I got to a few things. And I didn't know what they were. And, you know like headlock was, it's for where they do the IV, but they kind of seal it off, and I was like what's a headlock and she was like, I want you to do some research on that, like, she, she came with a birth plan with all the things on it and then as I asked her, she was like, this is a great time for you to go learn about these things, educate yourself and so that's the other thing that I learned from her that I try and transfer that I can't tell you. I mean I want to teach you, like in my children the tissue class I'm going to teach you about these things, but it's also on you too, to be willing and open to learn all the individual things and so she was my Doula not my Talberth educator. So the second thing she said was, have you taken a childbirth education class. And I was like, No, you should.

13:10

Okay, she was like, they will go over all of these things and give you the pros and cons and when they work and when they don't and like all the things and your options and stuff. So that led me to take a childbirth education class because there was all this stuff on the birth plan she had given me that I was like, I don't know what these are. Or maybe I heard the word but I didn't really understand, and especially when it came to like me giving birth. And so that led me to the birth class and it helped me, and then that they go much deeper, you know, she gave me a birth plan and was like, go learn more, right, the birth class like going deep on all of the all the possible interventions and options and things, and then that helped me come back and create my birth plan.

13:58

And I did it with this expectation in mind that I wasn't tied to it but that I really wanted it. So I do think there's this element of like, determination, and flexibility of like okay, I know it's not.

14:14

I have learned, I didn't know because I hadn't experienced birth yet but I have learned that it wasn't predictable so I had to be flexible but darn it if I wasn't going to do everything in my power. That to go for it. And then if I ever got to a point where things, something needed to be done, that wasn't part of my plan, I knew I had done the things before to help me either avoid it, or reduce it, or whatever so I had that bit of confidence of like okay if I end up unnecessary and that I don't want, I know I did everything I could to avoid it and learning about that, you know 10 to 15% of people in the necessary to save mom or baby so understanding that in some instances it is really needed and so I just wanted to if that was me to get to that point knowing I had tried everything. And then that birth plan was a great communication tool with my care provider so I would take it to my appointments and we would talk about it you and answer my questions and then I took it during the birth and gave it to all the nurses, and I also attached little Starbucks gift cards, so I, yeah, set the tone and show appreciation, and whether they read it or not, they all seem to respect my efforts. Yeah, you're coming in, informed, you know, and really speaking up for yourself.

15:41

It gave me a lot of confidence and then as things came up and my Doula was there to remind me like, Hey, you said you didn't want this or whatever she would talk to me and kind of help remind me to advocate for myself or you know, so, and I have to say, and I don't think it's because the birth plan I think it's because of the process, the journey that I went on that I did achieve the birth that I had hoped for, which was an unmedicated waterbirth.

16:08

And, I mean I think the only intervention I ended up with was a little bit longer continuous electronic fetal monitoring at the beginning of my labor because, you know, when you first arrive at the hospital they give, they want to get like a strip, like a 30 minute strip and see the baby responding well and he was basically like sleeping wasn't having problems that he wasn't being super responsive during contractions and that's what they, they see and so I kind of have to stay on the monitor longer. Okay.

16:38

I had hoped, I wanted to go in and get the get the strip and get off, like I would I have been around and so but again I had a doula there so she was helping me move around in the bed and use the yoga ball and all the things, and that's meaning that continuous electronic fetal monitoring.

16:52

And then once I got off the monitors, I think the baby was there, my son was there in about two hours. Yes, things moved along once I was able to, to really move around, but, um, and then with my second, I didn't have a work plan. I felt like I I mean I was on, I was on my path to become a doula I went the route of a home birth. So, I had my original birth plan but doing a home birth. A lot of that stuff doesn't apply. Right. Just the set of interventions is much less, but I had that experience kind of like you like you're like it's in my head it's in my office, I know what I want and I was thinking I knew where to focus you know you could actually hone in on just a few things instead of that like, you know, the overarching one. Yeah, exactly. So that was my second and I had a successful home birth with my second home, so I love, you know, you know, it's not. I guess we got to talk about the word you know the expectations because, and I know Bernie brown talks about expectations because that can lead to such resentment when you go into pain and expecting a certain outcome, and if that doesn't happen, then you can feel less than you can be angry. You can feel upset. You know it's those expectations but yet. A lot of it too is your flexibility within those expectations you always talk about and use the, the, to be like bamboo, you know to be that strong in that firm but it's so flexible and sustainable, but it's so flexible, and it's that you've got to address those issues you've got to address that yes we can expect this, but there is no guarantee. You can do all the things and there's still no guarantee that it's going to go according to this plan, and so it's, but it doesn't mean we don't put forth the effort into the process of the plant, it's the value I 1,000% agree and. And I think what I learned if it was from Rene Brown is about the expectation gap, and where the biggest chunk of disappointment is between reality and expectation, yeah and and when when. So the idea with this conversation I think is to encourage people to have realistic expectations. This isn't throw caution to the wind and say well, I can't. There's no guarantee you're telling you there's no guarantee. You can't predict how it's going to go, you know, so I'm just going to let let it be. Let it be what is, and I'm here to say that you're more likely to experience a traumatic, like traumatic experience, even if it ends up being virginal.

19:51

Then, if you had taken some onus and some steps beforehand to learn about what might arise so that if things go sideways, it's not a roller coaster where you're just like, out of control, you're not getting bulldozed, And that's, I mean that's what I did and I'll be honest, I, like I said I didn't take any outside childbirth education classes I just took what was at the hospital. I just, I don't know, I had this, maybe it was the conversations I had with the providers, I just, it was kind of one of these things where it's just gonna happen, it's just going to flow. I don't know why I took that thought process, you know, I, and looking back and that sort of thing and just kind of checking the boxes, but all the information I got was from that one source, Like my provider which was in a hospital setting. So, when I hear you talk about, well, I watched that documentary I that opened your eyes to some of the other possibilities, and I didn't, I didn't do that, You know and so I look back on and that's why I like to talk to a lot of moms in my office is that you know, this is, have you thought about this, or considered it just to at least throw words at people for them to be like, Oh what is that, let me look that up because I don't know that I, I was thrown those words and maybe I wasn't I just totally you know discredit them it was like, oh it's gonna flow and be fine. But I do think that my birth ended up being traumatic, not because my, not because of my providers. I mean they were wonderful and took such good care of me and explain things as we're going along, but, you know, it was more of my lack of really research and preparing you know and like you said to it's really the importance of the process, not so much the actual birth plan but it's that, You know it's just like school, you know, you do this report. And it's not just the finished product that's important. It's like what did you learn all along the journey that you now have in your toolbox of of information. So, and it is a process that you end up using for the rest of your life, it's something that I have applied to raising my kids to my marriage to my business as far as like, I just gained this confidence that I can't control the outcome of many things in my life, but I can control what I learned about it and I can't control my flexibility and I can't control my, you know, where I'm gathering my information from, and just kind of being in this constant learning mode. And I do think, to, to your point about, you were talking about like you had only only had that one touch point with your first, which was your obstetrician, was it officer obstetrician right. It was mainly midwives Yeah, I mean obviously ended up with obstetrician with the C section but yeah that is with the midwives Yeah, and sometimes how even hospital based midwives. Well, I think they can provide great care you're not fully exposed to all have the information just because of usually time and resources, as I say it's the title you know you're in and out and those appointments, you know, and and not so much they can do. Yeah and I think yeah I think a lot of people though, have that sort of trust, or that sort of like Well, surely they're telling me everything badly. And I, It's not that they're not gonna be tempted to try to harm you. It's against time, resources, but when you know that when you hear me say that I want you to think, Okay, well, it's my responsibility to go and gather information and try and get other opinions or other points of contact, whether it be like chiropractor where you're you're sharing new information, new things with them or doula childbirth education class or, you know, YouTube videos about, you know, giving birth, whatever it is, try and choose like trusted resources, where what you're learning is evidence based and, and giving you the tools you need to navigate this process, I mean it is a major event that I think a lot of people tend to pull away from it and they will trust the doctor kind of implicitly because it's kind of hard to lean into the unknown to lean into the uncomfortable to realize that you kind of got to do all this work, if you really want to have this kind of experience or it's easier to be like, No, I'm good. That was me. That's and so what you're kind of saying it's like well I don't know I had that resistance into like the researching all the things. And I don't, I don't know if it's just, it was my personality, it's where I was at it's what I was used to as far as like okay this is what this medical provider says this is obviously they're going to give me the information but. So with that aspect of like the people with that resistance to the plans, what do you have tips and tools that you talk about with expectant families with that, overcoming that resistance to create the plan. I do and I really try and put the emphasis on the process and to re emphasize everything I've already said is that the process is where the gold is a process is where you learn about your options and you learn about how you want to feel why you get burned and how you want to be treated. And so I really try and drive it home to them that it's not about being tied to a certain outcome, it's not about what's written on your physical birth plan, but the gift is in the process. And the, the example I share to try and make it relatable, is about traveling. So think about this I'm going to kind of go into a little bit of an example here a little bit of a scenario for you guys to something that's more relatable right because not everyone has given birth or even planned for giving birth, but I believe that most of us have planned for a trip. Okay. So, think about how you feel. If you arrived at the airport so this is a trip. That's a big trip right, got to go on an airplane.

26:17

And you didn't know which airline you were flying or what city you were flying to. You have no bags packed, and you have no itinerary for your trip. How would you feel just visualize how, I mean I have anxiety like I already tried to figure out I don't even know how to drive to Clarksville. I don't know what airline, I know you can't even go to the airport without knowing what area you're traveling to because it's such a big airport. Exactly. So in my head I'm like that's all it's all heart palpitations, already anxious, stressed, worried, okay, yeah, what the trips still happen.

26:59

Most likely, yes yeah right. But will it go as smooth and as fun as it could have, if you had planned a little bit beforehand. So, now, imagine how you feel going on a trip with all of those things considered, not perfectly planned, but considered research, organized, maybe you even hired a travel agent.

27:29

Even if you have a rainy day on this trip, you'd still feel more at ease and happy because you probably have maybe a rainy day plan or backup plan, or write something you've started the plane is delayed and you've missed a connecting flight. It's fine. Right now, it's hot plan, see I've got some plans or some backup plans or some other things to do in the meantime, right. So, birth is similar, isn't saying that birth has to go according to plan. It is saying that I care enough about having the safest, healthiest and happiest birth possible, and a willingness to do the work now, to ensure you have what you need to get there. So reminder that birth is unpredictable, and birth is nonlinear. So like we've talked about here, but that doesn't mean birth plans are pointless. Knowing that birth unfolds differently for each person. The birth plan provides guidance, it is not an exact itinerary. It's an, if this, then this, it's where, if things come up, you're like, Well, I've thought about that. Here's how I feel about it right, or, or you may not know all the things that it triggers like, oh I think I read about that so you're at least familiar with some of the terminology the terms and the words. Yeah, that alone can be like making empowering, empowering like I know what's going on here, I'm giving birth. I am the birthing person right doctors do not deliver babies, moms, deliver babies birthing people deliver babies so knowing the available options. Plus, basic understanding of those options combined with your personal preferences which I know you highlight that as far as like really tapping into how you want to feel, how you want to. What do you want to hear the word you want to say the word you want to hear, like, how do you want to be taught to like what environment like that's a personal preference, as well as your medical means right like this isn't like all all rainbows and butterflies, it's also what do you need medically what are your unique cultural circumstances what, there's like we all come with our own set of baggage to birth as well so it's not just like, Oh, if you have all the information and you're good to go. It's this like trifecta of information, personal preferences and then your you your unique circumstances that no one else has or can tell you exactly how to behave within. So knowing that when, when I say all this is that you still have to take into consideration those other elements. Right, right. there's no more control and ease as you navigate your birth. Exactly.

30:24

And, you know, I don't give birth plans or templates or anything in the office, I asked moms, you know, do you have an idea what's your I like to get an idea of what kind of resources can I provide for this mom what words are she using what you know, those type of things to kind of say, okay, maybe there's some other options here or look into this and that type of thing but I don't do like a template, or anything like that and I, I know that you do offer those childbirth education classes so within that realm. What does the birth plan look like. Yeah, so yeah part of my childbirth education class includes a birth plan workbook which is like comprehensive so it's going to kind of go over all the different things including like risk and benefits and so you can kind of like see everything and then try to condense that into like a one page template so you do the workbook first and then you have the class, which is providing all the information, and then the, the birth plan itself. So the things I highlight or include for them to explore further or to consider is the atmosphere, which you've talked about to like private quiet, calm, certain music certain sense, visual like you want to hang some birthday affirmation cards you know just. And the reason you put in your birth plan is to just express to them that you want to, like, set the tone like I want to come I want the lights dim when possible, you know, the shades drawn, and some of this is obvious, and easily done but it's just expressing to them, like, that way when they come in they usually talk about quieter voice and they don't, they usually not before they come in right, and you're setting the tone about the atmosphere for the type of environment you want, and then I go and I share cervical exams your preference for how often, if at all you want to be checked for dilation during labor pain relief options, like Do you want an epidural, do you want, narcotics, do you want no drugs.

32:39

So you could list that there are other comfort tools to consider yoga ball or massage tools or freedom to move around.

32:48

Using the shower you know any other, anything that you decide you want to definitely use for comfort, including that there, your preference on IV monitoring, pushing, which some people might be like what I have to include that in my birth plan. Pushing is a good one because it's like in many hospital settings the care provider might ask you to just get in the bed on your back to push your baby out. And I say if that feels good to you, great, but if not, knowing that you can move around and be in any position you want to be in to push your baby out so you include that on your birth plan to be like, I want freedom of, like, movement and I want to be in whatever position I am in when I'm pushing the baby out. And that's a good one that you want to talk about with your care provider beforehand, right, like, Hey, I support the pushing stage, and they might work with you in the bed and you might then say, well, I would like to not be in the bed, if I don't want to be in the bed and then they can say, I don't deliver babies that way, or you know, this is the place for you. Yeah, right, right, right, or they're like great, I will support whatever position you're at right it's a great point of conversation. All of these are great. I mean back to cervical exams you could ask your care provider, how often do you check the, you know for dilation during labor. And they might say every two hours because that's protocol at some hospitals just like no matter what's happening every two hours. And you might be like I only want to check be checked if I, if there's medical need, or if I want to be checked, and know what's going on and to learning why that's important because we know the cervix is not a crystal ball, there's so much more to learn about that but again this is just scratching the surface and then yeah, monitoring, continuous monitoring, determine or Doppler wireless monitors are available at some hospitals, a PCI to me is something you would want to include, and then kind of getting into after the birth to have, you know, active management of delivering the placenta, like how do you want that to go and, again, a lot of people don't put a lot of time and effort into what happens after the baby's here, but knowing that after the baby's here, you still have to give birth, you still have them. Yeah, and you still have choices and options. Yes, still have lots of choices and options, locks, and that's where I think it'll drop off into like that's the first half of the template I have is, everything I just said and the second half is everything that happens after the birth so that just shows you how much there is to consider. After the birth so it's delivery of the placenta cord clamping right that's a big one in the skin, scan the golden hour so protecting the first one to three hours after the birth, between mom and baby and the family to limit intervention, unnecessary intervention during that time to facilitate bonding and breastfeeding, how you want to approach breastfeeding or chest feeding or feeding your baby, and then it gets an A newborn care. So there's lots of things that they want to do or is done for your baby after the birth and so I also include all those things which is like their exam, and their any sort of medications that they might be given like Vitamin K or an eye alignment, and there's some other tests that are done in screenings that are done to your newborn so you might want them all but if you can kind of say, Hey, I would like to wait three hours or 24 hours or whatever before doing them to really maximize bonding and breastfeeding, because every little thing can disrupt that time. And then the last two I have is circumcision if you're having a boy, then that's something to consider and that's a highly sensitive topic.

36:36

And I encourage doing research and deciding what's best for you. But that's you want to know that because if you're giving birth in a hospital, they usually do, it's gonna come up, come up right. And then the last one is to Starion, so I have this on my primary birth plan template, But then it's like, it's just a one liner that basically says if a Syrian is needed then see this other sheet, and it's like a Syrian birth plan template and you, I know we talked about this before but like the importance of considering the Syrian birth plan because it is something that could arise and so I encourage birthing people to while it seems hard to think about it I don't want necessary and so I don't want to spend time planning for this area and if I have found what I want that I just like to say well if you need one which currently one in three people were dying in a hospital and up with a Syrian, so it is probable, it could happen, right.

37:36

And so wouldn't you rather have thought about all the considerations, just like the primary birth plan, you can have some say in how that's the Syrian birth goes, as well as have those conversations with your care provider before the birth, kind of like well, if I need a Syrian. What's that look like can you walk me through that, and what's the recovery like and what, who can be there and when will I get this have my babies with me or whatever it is like. So, I have a whole list of things for people to consider for their Syrian birth plan to and as always, like, it's like a Plan B and you kind of keep it in your hospital bag until it's needed and then if it's needed, you again have walked through all the things so you're not having this like bulldozing or you're getting bulldozed and during necessary and where everything just happened and what, what is going on right, and especially as as a unplanned one it's kind of maybe having quicker than you know, you can, and you can speak to that and how do you feel like that could be helpful. Well I know and even going through all of this, too, and everything that you're mentioning. I can even feel myself being like that this is so much, this is like overwhelm, like I don't even know like, you know what I mean. So I think part of that too, might have been like that there's so many options, there's so many different things why even bother looking at all of this because it's just overwhelm and it's one of those. I think that's why it's important to, you know, finding out earlier when you're pregnant that, hey, research one little bit at a time, and add to it and to really combat that overwhelm to is kind of breaking it down. I think that would have been helpful for me but I a c section was not going to happen, it was not an option, so I felt like an ostrich I just kind of bury my head in the sand and didn't even look at what was going, what could happen with any of that. And I think more of my thoughts and feelings related to that emergency C section don't necessarily come from, like my care providers because they were amazing, you know, even after I had my C section they're like you're a perfect candidate for a VBAC, and just all of these things being so supportive and like they did amazing incision like everything was beautiful in that aspect of it, but it was the whole, the whole event itself was just, I didn't. I'm very claustrophobic. And I will never forget they put that curtain. And it was so close to my face that like, I could not. I just remember those feelings and I'm really like you have got to move this just a bit I know, you know, and they've gotten done ones now where it's clear and you can see I didn't want to see but like that added so much extra to me like that was just an already mixed in with what was going on. And then I could the tugging that I felt like my body was being moved, but I couldn't feel the sensation but like I knew it was like it was almost nauseating in that like not knowing to expect that so like I wish I had looked at like even a video or something that, what a C section looks like, but I also didn't want to give energy to that and I didn't want to see it. So, it's, it's really, maybe that's just, you know, thoughts and emotions with me and things you know having to deal with and unpack and that sort of thing but it's that was where my thought process was so I was like, Oh, I'm not even going to look at that but I do wish I had because maybe those things wouldn't have been so traumatic to me, and really impacted how I felt about that first birth how it just happened to me, it was one of those things yeah it was just like it just happened to me I wasn't like an active participant in his birth, it was just like everything went willy nilly and I had, it was just everything was happening to me.

1:12

And I, and I just want you to know like, I appreciate you sharing that very intimate and personal experience and I'm so sorry that that happened in a way that made you feel that sort of overwhelm and that, that sort of that that secondary passenger to your own birth and that's very real, and I appreciate you sharing it because I think it's important for people to hear that you've gone through that and sort of some things you've gleaned from it so that you can maybe help someone else, avoid that in the future so I just really appreciate that and

1:46

I probably should have done like a trigger, because it's, it can be very triggering for people, you know, so for sure I can't I don't want that. Yeah, no,

1:55

I think it's okay I think it's and we could put that in the description to let people know we talk about it and I do think it's an important part of birth, I think, I think it's important for people to know that, also, that that experience could have still been very traumatic, even if you had done some of the things you're talking about. So, just understanding that there's no guarantee and that the things we're talking about can help maybe alleviate some of that but in that experience where you've labored as long as you did and then have time necessary and birth is, is a big thing, and it is not to be taken lightly and there's no real way to make that much easier. But I do believe, like you said that the thing learning about like what that might look and feel like and even if it's not on your radar and you don't want to, it is worth the energy now, and then took that little plan away, and hopefully you don't need it but if you do, hopefully that can help you have a more positive superior birth experience because I believe this area of birth can be empowering and it can be a positive experience and that the goal is to leave or feeling confident and happy and healthy, so that you can enter motherhood on the best foot possible whether you have a Siri whether you have a medicated birth whether you have a vaginal birth, and that these steps are just sort of some, some guidelines to maybe help help you get there. But I do think you got to hear the good, bad and ugly, and I think, I think that is important, too, to have and I do think now too with like Instagram I see pictures of babies being born, necessary and all the time, granted I follow all the birthing people possible. Right, like that's a great like even go at least see pictures of what that looks like,

3:44

oh yeah cuz that's tons of videos and yeah there's tons of stuff out now where I think there's, there is access to so much more and people are sharing their births in their birth stories more which I think is so important too but it is, you know, again all everything that we've you've talked about today, it's really looking at that and importance of the process, and doing the research and learning everything throughout the journey, and less about. This is the exact outcome that you expect and you want to control, you know, because we understand that that's that that is not the point. You know, of the birth. It really is that research and so it's, it is combating some of that resistance that you have to it, but it's the making those informed decisions can be so empowering and can really make the difference in how you feel about how you gave birth.

4:39

Yep, even if interventions were needed 100% It's the process. Yeah, like we're saying is greater than the plan itself, and then navigating that process being firm and flexible like the bamboo, right, this is going to teach you new things every new thing you learn while maintaining that bamboo is going to open a door for something new that you can learn like a nice little touch point helps you learn and discover something about yourself, to write this is not all about book information, it's that as you read or listen to birth stories or read or hear about different options like what resonates with you, what makes you feel safe, and what makes me feel safe is not what makes you feel safe, right, like everyone has their different preferences to sort of understanding that as you're learning about this. Pay attention to how you feel like physiologically right like hardware how's your car, how's your breathing. And just like when you go visit your care provider and you ask these questions and learn the stuff and you hear and feel how they're talking to you like how does that make you feel, and bringing that into your process too so tapping into yourself a little bit more and recognizing, it's an evolution, you know, like where you are now, and I know you mentioned like when I was going through the birth plan I was like whoa whoa that's so much stuff. And I want to reiterate that, that it is just take it one thing at a time and with one thing you learn if you do to another thing. And it is an evolution just taken in bite sizes. Do what works with you within your means and what's available to you. And if you are able to take that childbirth education class because that's really the where you can get the full depth of the knowledge but if you're not able to do that work with what you've got where you're at and just take it one small bite at a time.

6:24

Guess I agree with all of that, all, all of that. I hope everybody here listening has been able to hopefully learn something today hopefully there's a word that's been thrown out where you're like, oh I need to research that more. And hopefully, we understand the importance of the birth plan process, and we thank you so much for tuning in today. Have a wonderful day guys.

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