Ep 123: Birth Brain: Bringing power to the birthing community with Dr. Danielle Drobbin

In this episode, we have a prenatal and pediatric chiropractor, Dr. Danielle Drobbin.  She not only joins us today to chat about prenatal chiropractic care including some things she wishes people knew about how impactful adjustments can be during pregnancy ( helping the birthing community find faith within their body and trust that their body was designed for birth), but we also talk about her book that she’s working on called Birth Brain. 

It’s definitely a labor of love, is in the middle of being born, but was conceived out of a need to bring education to the birthing community.  She mentions chapters that discuss decision science, how to choose between faith vs fear, assessing one’s own personal values and relaying that to the birth space, to help empower the birthing community through education and choosing a provider, and so much more.  She’s so very passionate about helping others and talking about birth.

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Dr. Danielle Drobbin

Midtown Family Wellness

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Transcript

Dr. Shannon (00:03.704)
Hello, friends. You are listening to the Aligned Birth Podcast. Typically, there's two hosts on the show. So there's Dula Rachel, and then there's me, Dr. Shannon, prenatal chiropractor. Today, you've just got me, but that also means that it is an interview day. And so you know me, you've listened to the show, you know how much I love these. And we have Dr. Danielle Drabin on the show today. And she is also an Atlanta area prenatal pediatric

chiropractor, I'm also gonna throw in powerhouse in there. She and I were just chatting before the show. I'm gonna call her a powerhouse. She didn't call herself that, but I'm calling her that. So we'll get to that in a minute. But we're gonna talk about, obviously we're gonna talk about prenatal chiropractic care because that's what we both deal with daily in our jobs. And it deserves a space that needs to be talked about. But we're gonna go a little bit more in depth with it too because she's writing a book. She's writing a book and it's called Birth Brain. And

I want to know all the things about it, like why is it written? What are the chapters? Who is it for? Where did it come from? What was this birthed from? And why the birthing community needs this book? So we're chatting about that today on the show, but we got to get there. So we'll go through her background and stuff too. So I do want to give you a little bit of insight into who Dr. Danielle is, but she grew up in Long Island.

And her dad is a chiropractor, has been a chiropractor for 30 years. She went to the university of, or she went to Life University here in the Atlanta area. And so she has her doctorate from there. And then she went through extra education for pediatric care. So she has her CACCP, DACCP, so certification and diploma and working with pediatric patients. But she's also Webster certified as well too, so through ICPA.

She and her family wife, Dawn, they have four children and they live there in the metro Atlanta area. She serves as a chiropractor with only the intention to give and in her own words, she says, I know that I was put on this earth to be a chiropractor and affect as many lives as possible through the power of love and touch. So welcome to the show today, Dr. Danielle.

Danielle Drobbin (02:18.326)
Thank you for having me. That's very nice things you said about me. Thank you for saying that.

Dr. Shannon (02:24.092)
I love it. Yes. No, she's definitely a powerhouse. I feel like I've stalked you on Instagram and I've known you in the chiropractic world for so long. When I was in school, I looked up to you. I still look up to you because you would always come and speak to students at life and just really, I don't know, you give. You give, give. You love to inspire and help others.

Dr. Shannon (02:51.8)
first, well, I don't know if it was when we first met, but we had, ICPA had done something at Life recently where they were trying to get students and doctors together. And I saw the speaker lineup and I was like, oh, Dr. Danielle speaking. I love that. I love hearing her speak because sometimes I call it, your New York comes out. Like, I love that. It's like, it's the passion. I should probably call it the passion, but I called the New York. Ha ha.

Danielle Drobbin (03:14.727)
to my detriment sometimes, but yes, sometimes good, sometimes bad.

Dr. Shannon (03:19.328)
No, the New York comes out and so you were so passionate and you were talking about this book and I was like I've got to have her on the show and talk about this book. So and here we are. Yay It's happening It's all happening So you're a chiropractor and your dad Was a chiropractor so that kind of explains a bit of like how you were introduced into the field and the lifestyle, but why

Danielle Drobbin (03:24.489)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (03:28.126)
Yes, yes, thank you, thank you. It is happening, it's all happening, yes. But I mean, yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Shannon (03:48.432)
Prenatal by pediatric. How did that come about?

Danielle Drobbin (03:49.65)
Yeah. So I mean, growing up with a dad that's a chiropractor, we're definitely more on the holistic side of how we lived our life and how we treated our bodies. You know, and just had, I think the core of it is having faith within your body, right? And having faith that your body is an innate intelligent being. It can regulate, it can heal. A lot of times we come from a fear-based place with that. And we may be

fear-based decisions rather than faith-based decisions. And I always like to say that, you know, you can walk in fear or you can walk in faith and you can't walk in both at the same time. So you gotta choose one. And I've been put in many situations in my life where I had to choose one and fear would have been a very easy one to choose. However, when I chose faith, everything worked out the way exactly it was supposed to work out. And whether it has to do with your healthcare or just your life. But definitely growing up with that as a core value, I think

regardless of what chiropractic is, that was very much instilled in me through chiropractic. But yeah, I mean, we just grew up super holistic. My last sibling was birthed at home and I was 12 years older than my sister. So, 11 years older. And so I was the doula for my mom at our home birth when I was 11. And so it was me and the midwives. Yeah, yeah, that was kind of like cool. And so I'm 11 years old and my...

Dr. Shannon (05:12.652)
That's impactful. Ha ha ha.

Danielle Drobbin (05:18.462)
like giving birth in her bedroom and I just remember you know going through the process with her and holding her hand and giving her ice chips and she asked for a gun at one point and I was like that's kind of weird but I didn't give her the gun, gave her the ice chips and you know and then and my and my sister started coming out and I remember her head popped out and they were and I supported her head and with my dad and we you know caught her as my mom was birthing her and then I cut the umbilical cord.

Dr. Shannon (05:28.817)
I can't do that.

Danielle Drobbin (05:48.094)
And I just remember like being 11. And I was like, that is like, I mean, it was just really amazing to watch that, right? The faith in the body again, to do a natural normal process. And I just knew at that point that I was definitely going to be a part of prenatal something. Like I didn't know what I was gonna do at 11, but you know, at that point. So then like fast forward, you know, here I am in Atlanta and I go to chiropractic school and having four kids.

Dr. Shannon (06:09.049)
Right.

Danielle Drobbin (06:17.194)
Obviously, it just was a natural way for me to move into the pregnancy pediatric world, so.

Dr. Shannon (06:23.176)
Yeah, no, most definitely. Now, and I, towards the end, I'll have you share kind of, okay, where's your office and that type of thing. So as you go through school, get your CACCP, DACCP, and work then in this prenatal pediatric space, what are some of the things that you, I guess you notice, or what are some things that you do wish people knew about?

Danielle Drobbin (06:30.774)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (06:52.452)
prenatal care, but also pediatric chiropractic care. Cause I feel like there's still a lot of education that we have to do in the community. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (06:59.722)
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot, a lot of things I wish people knew. But from the basics and the standpoint, I mean, you know, what we do is not, some people come in and they say, ah, my partner doesn't believe in chiropractic. This, this and that. And it's like, at the end of the day, it's not a religion, it's a science, right? The first page of every Grey's Anatomy book that every doctor, whether it's medical, allopathic doctor, chiropractic doctor, the first page of every Grey's Anatomy book,

Dr. Shannon (07:03.984)
Hehehehehehe

Danielle Drobbin (07:28.546)
is the central nervous system. And so I think what falls short is that chiropractors are mostly known for back pain, neck pain, car accidents, and really it's about neurological function, nervous system connection and function. And these nervous system pathways and nerves control and coordinate every single function of your body. So, just yesterday I had a kid come in that's been suffering with a cough since May, a really bad cough since May, and what are we in? September, so we're talking four months. And when the mom comes in,

every medication there is, every natural remedy there is. She's been to an allergist, she's been to an internist, she's been to everything, the cough has only gotten worse. And so her postpartum doula, she just had another baby, actually said, oh, what if we tried the chiropractor? And she just totally forgot, because she had been my patient a long time ago. Anyway, she brought the kid in, but we're like, so many times we're in the last resort. When you want to get a better lung function to allow that cough to leave the body, because that's what his body's trying to do.

We gotta make sure the connection to the lungs are working right instead of just trying to fix it from an outside in perspective. So I think just remembering that your brain, your spinal cord, your nerves control and coordinate, not just one thing, not just two things, but like everything that maybe we start from that foundation and work our way out when drugs and surgery are needed, when other things are needed, but make sure that foundation is clear and connected to start with. And so many times when we're the last resort,

I think about the money, the time, the suffering that could have been saved if maybe we were like three steps earlier, or the first step.

Dr. Shannon (09:02.926)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (09:06.38)
We're the first step. No, I totally, yeah, everything that you said, I agree. That's what I wanted you to kind of go through that.

Danielle Drobbin (09:11.512)
ENOUGH

Well, and not even that, just if I could piggyback on the prenatal side of things too, because from a prenatal standpoint, and of course we're talking symptomatic, but like, you know, what is it like to just like, have like a healthy kid, right? What does it mean to just have a great normal pregnancy or, you know, and have a good birth, you know, without any sort of like intervention? And what does it mean to just like, kind of live in a way that's just more...

Dr. Shannon (09:17.782)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (09:44.282)
Normal forget natural just like normal and so I want to I wish I wish people would think about us on a proactive preventative side and Not just in a reactive side at the same time

Dr. Shannon (09:55.076)
Hmm, most definitely, yeah. And that's a hard, sometimes that's a hard space to get into, you know, and I know you do a lot of education in your office too, and you're constantly talking about those things. I mean, I know, even on my run this morning, that's what I was thinking of partly. I was thinking of nervous system regulation, and like, why do we wait so long to come in when there's issues, or even before there's issues? And I know, it's part of the journey, it's part of the journey.

Danielle Drobbin (10:18.006)
You know? Right. When the babies breach, what about keeping the baby not breach? You know, it's like, why are we just in this reactive society? But that is our society and our culture is very reactive. So, you know, you have to push to be in a more proactive and educate yourself to be in a more proactive model.

Dr. Shannon (10:26.196)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (10:31.8)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (10:38.58)
Now, I think that's really fun that you shared about your first experience with birth at 11. And so then knowing, okay, I'm going to do something in this field. So now, you know, fast forward to getting through all of school and your diplomate, which is not something to just be glossed over. So I do want to acknowledge that because that's a lot of work. That's a lot of work. So how did...

chiropractic care or even just your knowledge, how did that impact your family and your partner's birth and that whole thing? Like, was it also just as impactful as when you were young or was it, I don't know, yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (11:18.986)
Totally. Yeah. I mean, well, and if you think about it, you're like, it's so easy for me to say, like, let your kids fever run. It's so easy for me to say, get adjusted while you're pregnant to prevent brief presentation. But then, so my wife birthed all four of our children. She had three births, two singles and one twin birth was our last birth. And like, but when you're in it, it's a different story. Right. And maybe sometimes that faith can waver. Right. And so with our first

We had a normal or natural water birth. And we chose our providers with, we interviewed our providers, right? We're the employers and these people are our employees. And I'm paying the bills and I get to choose who I want to be part of my village. And through, I wanna make sure that people are congruent and on board with what we want for our birth. We never know that it's gonna go that way or not, but I wanna set ourselves up for success. So.

Dr. Shannon (12:15.864)
You want to set yourself up for success. Exactly.

Danielle Drobbin (12:18.082)
Totally. And so we, you know, our first birth was a natural water birth. I remember she looked at our provider, our midwife, and my wife said to her, do you think, do you want to check me? Do you think I should like push? And the fact that our midwife, Anjali, who's the most amazing midwife, just looked at her like this. And we have a picture, just her looking, and she goes, you know, if you think you need to push, maybe you should. And she didn't check her. And she just allowed her to like listen to her body, right?

Dr. Shannon (12:34.992)
Uh huh.

Dr. Shannon (12:42.567)
Hehehehehehe

Dr. Shannon (12:46.032)
Mm-hmm. Gave her space. Okay.

Danielle Drobbin (12:46.602)
Our second birth was in the car. So, yeah. Our second birth was on the side of the road she had precipitous labor. And so it was just my wife and I, and we pulled over and she pushed a baby out on the side of Ryrecliffe and I caught that baby. And I was like, second birth with just me and her. But like at that moment, right? I chose, I remember like I was either gonna be fearful or faithful in that moment when that baby's head was coming out. And I remember choosing faith.

Dr. Shannon (12:59.552)
And you're like, here we go again. You got that.

Dr. Shannon (13:06.401)
Ugh.

Danielle Drobbin (13:15.33)
purposely having to choose that faith because it was scary as all you know what when it's just you and your wife on the side of the road. And then our last twin birth, we really were, because now we're considered high risk and she was older and so we really had to put a lot of what's gonna be in my book into plan and effect to make sure that we were setting ourselves up for success in a framed high risk situation.

Dr. Shannon (13:40.46)
Right, and high risk being as soon as the calendar turns, you're all of a sudden advanced maternal age. And it's like, well, maybe that's, yeah, no.

Danielle Drobbin (13:48.823)
Right.

Right, I would prefer the term higher risk and then we can see exactly what those numbers are. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (13:54.016)
Uh-huh. And what the numbers are. Okay, so that leads us into, let's talk about the book. Cause you said this, the last birth with your wife, ah, the book. You said this last birth that she had that really, it sounds like there are gonna be chapters in there that's kind of outlining or like these were the steps or this is what you can do to impact your.

birth and empower your birth experience. Like, I don't know, tell me about the book.

Danielle Drobbin (14:26.062)
So, so it's funny, the book has evolved. It's so crazy that I'm writing a book. I just want you to know that I have no idea what I'm doing and I have people supporting me in this process because I definitely could not do it on my own. Like I said, I barely read books, much less write books, but I have this burning thing inside of me that I need to...

Dr. Shannon (14:46.486)
I

Danielle Drobbin (14:54.466)
bring education at a higher level of thinking to the birthing world. Because our birthing world is failing us. And our maternal mortality rates are up 40% highest, as we know, in black and Hispanic women. And it is devastating. And nobody's talking about why we have this great healthcare system, yet our maternal mortality rates are up 40%. Does anybody wanna talk about that? So...

It's very infuriating and frustrating. And even if there isn't a mortality outcome, there still are poor mental health outcomes. There are still more interventions being used that are at unhealthy and risky rates, according to ACOG. So I just really, mine boggles me why we're not talking about any of this. And so I really, so in my book, it's actually,

what I thought I was gonna be doing was writing like, here's what you can choose, week one, two, three, four, five. But I'm actually implementing a way of thinking and I want to teach birthing individuals how to think and how to think objectively in uncertain and fearful times. And so it's called decision science, which is actually, Harvard has a whole...

Dr. Shannon (15:59.266)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (16:20.958)
has a bunch of classes on it and it's an actual thing. I didn't realize that how I think is an actual, like there's a term. And so there's a term for how I think. And it's really a book on how to teach breathing individuals how to think, to have their desired outcome in steps and stages.

Dr. Shannon (16:28.004)
There's a term.

Dr. Shannon (16:38.136)
That's, yeah. To in steps and stages. Okay, so give me some insight into what, cause that's interesting how it's evolved from what you were thinking as more of like, like a week one, week two, almost like that aspect of the, you know, the cruddy, what to expect when you're expecting, but like not that, but you're kind of shifting in on its axis because that's.

Danielle Drobbin (16:51.501)
Yes.

Danielle Drobbin (16:55.924)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (17:00.859)
Right. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (17:05.176)
what the community needs. It's how to think, it's like that reverse engineering. So what are the, what does some of the chapters sound like?

Danielle Drobbin (17:13.806)
So I think, well, when I think about my own personal practice and how many birthing individuals I take care of on a daily basis, because we have a really big high volume practice, and when I have patients that come in and they want a vaginal birth, I know where they're going to birth. And let's say this said hospital has a 46% C-section rate. Well, just in general, but they don't know that, right? So-

According to ACOG, you know, what is it? Anything over like 30% is actually like deadly, risky. It shouldn't be. You have red flags. Yet our hospitals here in Georgia, many of them are in the 40%. So you're going into a hospital, you want a vaginal birth, you're going into a hospital that has almost 50% C-section rate. Why even from that point, right? So anyway, we move through, I support them. I don't wanna impose any of my thoughts or feelings.

Dr. Shannon (17:50.872)
Red flag.

Dr. Shannon (17:55.363)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (18:12.702)
I want people, we could read the same research, me and somebody else, and they could choose to have a induction or a C-section, I could choose not to, right? Based on the same research, it's just about our personal risk assessment. And so I end up having a lot of women that have intervention and outcomes that they didn't want. And so I think, so part of what I'm doing is trying to educate on how to think about, okay, why don't we...

think about our personal values. So taking a trimester, we'll do a preconceptions section, first trimester, second trimester, third trimester, and postpartum like in the first 48. But thinking about and identifying your personal like key health values, right? I may be more holistic and somebody else might not be more holistic, that's okay. So they may be cool with having a little bit of intervention, awesome. But like, let's know that what that could lead to.

right, evaluating like your past medical decisions. So really finding your personal values, I think is very important. Again, it's not gonna be a book on having like a natural birth. It's gonna be because again, just cause I feel certain way or I want something for my own personal body doesn't mean that somebody else wants the same thing. And I need to support them in what they want, but maybe they want an epidural but they don't want a C-section. Or maybe there are times and ways to have epidurals, right?

and turn it low when you're about to push so you can really feel what's going on. So I think, anyway, but the whole, so we'd go through like personal health values, analysis of like key factors, like systematic analysis, identifying different options, and then putting them into like risk benefit analysis to see the risk benefit, whether it's if you're worried about cost, health,

mortality and then implementing your final decision and feeling good, feeling adaptable and being able to move in different directions if needed. But, you know, just being able to really go through that whole process and making a good solid decision that you feel good about because I don't know if you know, but statistically people spend more time researching a car they're going to buy than birth and beyond.

Dr. Shannon (20:35.712)
Mm-hmm and we've talked a lot on the show to how your birth experience is important like It plays a part because I think it plays such a big part in that postpartum for you and how you navigate that And so it really you know yes We all want healthy mom healthy baby because sometimes Rachel not talking on the show and we get really tired of like well I just want a healthy baby. Okay. Yes Obviously obviously we all want that

Danielle Drobbin (21:04.35)
Right, that's like the unspoken. Right.

Dr. Shannon (21:04.824)
That's not what we're arguing here. Yeah, it's more of, but could it be more and what are the things that you could do to set yourself up for success with that? And it doesn't, I mean, birth is unpredictable. So again, too, there's no guarantees, but you can at least feel at the end of the day that like, you know what, I did my research. I made these decisions based on what I read, what I looked at, you know? And it sounds a little bit like that book is gonna be...

Danielle Drobbin (21:20.771)
Totally.

Dr. Shannon (21:34.676)
It's probably helping people move into that faith versus fear with decision-making. It's kind of like it lays that out for you.

Danielle Drobbin (21:41.194)
Yes, and empowerment, and empowerment. And to what you said that point, I think that this is what has been happening is that not only am I listening to these women tell me that my body failed me. So they come in, so let's say they're on their second baby and they've had their first and ended up in a C-section. Why did it end up in a C-section? Well, there were 41 weeks, hospital policy, my provider policy is I get induced at 41 weeks. So that's the policy.

Dr. Shannon (21:53.029)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (22:07.886)
So they get induced to 41 weeks, their body wasn't, they induced something their body wasn't ready for. And so it didn't move in a natural progression like it should. And you know, whatever happens, they ended up with a C-section. Your body didn't fail you, the medical system failed you. It's very simple. And then now this mommy, you know, that I was talking to the other day has, you know, really did not, well, couldn't nurse because with higher C-section rates, you have a harder chance nursing with the baby.

So didn't nurse, so then feeling like a failure, having postpartum depression, not connecting with her baby. And so when you go through all of these things, forget about health, forget about, but even just the emotional connection. Now what is that for that mommy and baby? What is that for the baby? And that connection that baby isn't having with their mommy. And I think it's just such a bigger, bigger cascade effect, like to your point, than just healthy mommy, healthy baby. That's gonna be part of the book is,

What does that really mean? Like, are we just talking that you're like alive?

Dr. Shannon (23:10.592)
Yeah, and that's what it sounds like when I hear moms or anybody else say that, oh, if someone did have a cesarean, they didn't end up, they didn't necessarily want, I remember hearing that, because my first was cesarean. I had the cascade of interventions as well too. I had that, but when I looked back on it and went through more, I was like, oh, I think there was a lot of fear. I wasn't in the chiropractic mindset yet, but also I just had a lot of things to unpack and I think there was a lot of fear. So when you hear that it's like,

It's almost like that, yes, what does it mean for Healthy Mom, Healthy Baby? You just survived? I don't wanna just survive. I wanna thrive. Uh-huh.

Danielle Drobbin (23:43.074)
Right, I wanna thrive, I wanna thrive. And you know what, if I had to have a C-section, I wanna know that I was part of that decision-making. I wanna know that I went into it, you know, empowered, and that it wasn't just done to me, right? It was done with me. And think about even if the result was the same, what a different mental space that birthing individual could be in postpartum.

Dr. Shannon (23:51.556)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (23:56.644)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (24:00.274)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, that's huge.

Danielle Drobbin (24:11.794)
with their baby, right, and with themselves at the end of the day.

Dr. Shannon (24:17.388)
I have had moms who have experienced that. You know, we're wanting the VBAC, we're doing everything that we can. You know, we've got that birth support team lined up there. And I mean, it doesn't always happen, you know? It doesn't always happen. And I had one mom and she came in for a postpartum and she's like, you know, she's like, I still feel really good with my decision though. She's like, I tried for it and I just, I really did all the things I thought I could do for whatever reason.

Baby was just not gonna be born naturally, but her approach that afterwards, I thought, spoke volumes for her and for bonding with the baby as well too.

Danielle Drobbin (24:48.514)
Sure.

Danielle Drobbin (24:55.309)
Yes.

Danielle Drobbin (25:00.194)
Totally. And so, you know, to that same point, yes. Right. And so she had the same result, but a different experience postpartum because she was so educated throughout the process and powerful, right? Yep. So I totally hear that.

Dr. Shannon (25:11.248)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (25:18.971)
Mm-hmm. That education is very powerful.

Dr. Shannon (25:24.632)
So who is this book for? Is it only for people who are pregnant, you know, labor birth, or do you see a wider audience for it as well?

Danielle Drobbin (25:30.005)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (25:33.322)
I mean, number one, I hope that it could be for the first time, but it's gonna be for everybody, right? But I think, right, your second time, I'm like, after you go through it, you know what questions to ask. You know your hindsight is 20-20 all day long. But the higher level of thinking, my hope, like we're gonna start with prenatal, birth and postpartum perinatal.

Dr. Shannon (25:38.976)
Yeah, right.

Dr. Shannon (25:45.22)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (25:57.462)
But my hope is that way of thinking can be implemented now when you have your child and pediatrician visits and, you know, when you have sicknesses run through your house. So, or even just making medical decisions in general.

Dr. Shannon (26:13.208)
Mm-hmm. I had a doula on Milen just recently and she's Harmony Birth Atlanta and she teaches hypno babies. And it was beautiful to hear her talk about the steps and stages of hypno babies and what it is. And then she mentioned how she used some of those tools.

throughout her life. She's like, dude, I dealt with this with, you know, situations with health issues with her mom. And she's like, okay, I just re-centered. And so it sounds like it's kind of the same thing with this book, like it, to transcend and how we make decisions and almost kind of giving you that re-centering. Okay, where do I go from here?

Danielle Drobbin (26:51.318)
All right. Yeah. I mean, I was even thinking about it. I was like, oh man, what if I'm like gonna fight with my wife one time? And I'm like, okay, risk benefit. All right, if I do this, is it gonna, you know, what's my risk? What's my benefit? What if I just like don't do any, should I not do anything? Should I like wait 30 minutes and then decide? Am I making an emotional decision? Am I gonna, right? So it's like, I feel like you can really, I can save like a lot of fights, a lot of like, you know.

Dr. Shannon (27:06.286)
Should I just... yeah.

Dr. Shannon (27:19.376)
Ha ha.

Danielle Drobbin (27:19.982)
for medical decision making and relationship decision making. But yeah. Yes, yes. And no divorce, that's what it's gonna be called. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (27:26.826)
Birth, reign and beyond. There you go. There's lots of other things there. And no divorce. Keeping those couples together. So what has this writing process been like for you though? And how has it impacted you and how you approach care?

Danielle Drobbin (27:42.238)
Yeah, I... Oof. So, I think that the writing process has actually been... I've been a little bit more...

Danielle Drobbin (27:56.31)
I guess, you know, when people come into my office, I think that as birthing, as parents, we feel judged. We judge ourselves and then we continually feel judgment. Right? And so that's one of our core values in our office is, you know, no judgment. And so we never wanna have judgment on anybody. And I never want anybody to feel that. However, I do wanna support. And so I think that where I would maybe like hold my tongue sometimes, I am asking permission if I can provide some thoughts and things for them to think about.

a little bit more often. And I just had somebody switch to a different practice because for that mere reason, if she wanted a natural birth and she was going somewhere with a 46% C-section rate, and she goes, did you know that? I said, I did, that's why I thought you should look into it. So, and she switched to a midwifery group that has a 17% C-section rate, right? So I think I'm just, like I'm not biting my tongue as much. I think that it is,

I never want to be overly, I guess, aggressive in my thoughts or my communication. That's something that I personally have to work on, like work on knowing that I'm not like that, but sometimes I think I might be like that with my New Yorker in me. So it's really been, you know, it's scary. It's really scary because I think I'm going against the grain a little bit, but it's really empowering and I know in my office I can adjust one spine at a time, but maybe with a book I can-

Dr. Shannon (29:08.749)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (29:25.231)
impact more people on a greater scale.

Dr. Shannon (29:27.892)
Mm-hmm. And that was kind of even our hope with this podcast too because Rachel and I would just meet up and we would walk And just talk about things and it was like we should be talking about these things and people should hear it Because I don't know and people want to hear it. And so it's kind of the same thing it's this that ripple effect of Yes, you can only adjust the one spine, but maybe someone researches the hospitals that they are in their area to birth at and What goes into that?

Danielle Drobbin (29:37.618)
Yeah, right, and people want to hear it.

Danielle Drobbin (29:54.445)
Right.

Dr. Shannon (29:57.22)
decision making process. Because that sounds like it's like the education, because that's how, I think that's how you can make informed decisions too, is coming from that point of education and doing your research.

Danielle Drobbin (30:00.141)
Yep.

Danielle Drobbin (30:15.823)
Yeah, and learning how to read the research, right? So, just because I know it doesn't mean other people know it. And so I just, I feel like it's almost a disservice for me not to write it. You know, I hired a ghostwriter to help me because again, like I'm not good at writing. So I need to like have verbal diarrhea and then somebody make it like sound good. And she has just been so amazing. I can't even tell you, she's so on board and on mission.

Dr. Shannon (30:18.134)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:22.288)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:25.929)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (30:32.888)
Hahaha!

Dr. Shannon (30:36.933)
Sound like, yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (30:44.076)
And her name is Jackie Welling and she's really great. And so she's been a huge breath to this.

Dr. Shannon (30:52.26)
So where are you at in the writing process?

Danielle Drobbin (30:56.554)
Yeah, so we did our first chapter and then, so I have a, apparently there's all these things. And so, I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about these things or not, but again, authenticity is like my highest core value. So here I am. Okay, so you can like self-publish, you could get published, you could, right? There's a lot, do hybrids, I don't really know. Again, I have a team, right? So I, things have been happening in a way in this book that are just like pushing me.

Dr. Shannon (31:07.64)
I'm going to go to bed.

Dr. Shannon (31:15.501)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (31:24.818)
in a certain direction. And so I have a book agent. And so we have to write a complete overview of the book and we have to like do a book proposal. And then she's going to shop it out to try to get published, which is wild. So and the way that she came into my life was crazy and awesome. So it's just all supposed to be I'm just I'm just having faith and I'll just ride in the wave.

Dr. Shannon (31:25.092)
Uh huh.

Dr. Shannon (31:29.732)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (31:42.05)
Ah, that's so cool.

Dr. Shannon (31:51.06)
You're just here for the ride.

Danielle Drobbin (31:55.694)
go in that direction and I have to go with it. I have to go with it. It's not something I'm trying to make money on. It's just, I'm spending money to do it. I just, I gotta do it. I gotta do it.

Dr. Shannon (31:58.209)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (32:09.819)
Yeah, what is one of your big goals with the book? I know we talked about kind of transcending that birth and that birth process, and so that it goes into people using that, those decision-making tools as well. But anything else with the book that, like, with certain chapters or things that really speak to you?

Danielle Drobbin (32:20.064)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (32:31.582)
I mean, yeah, I mean, for sure. I think my favorite chapter, well, I think actually probably one of the beginning chapters assessing your personal values, I think is huge. And when people can really get in tune with that and know what they're looking for, how comfortable they feel with certain outcomes or interventions, I think that's really important because sometimes people might realize they're not comfortable or they are comfortable or they're a control freak.

or they just want like a total wild like birth. Like, so I think that's really important. And then we have a section like the last trimester and it's like, I almost want to think about it as like a big red stop sign, like stop. Let's make sure the ducks are in a row. Let's make sure you got all your people in place. Let's make sure you have like that, like your village to support you now, during and post. Let's just like now it's like, it's like.

Dr. Shannon (33:19.376)
Hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (33:27.69)
you've been preparing, you're in your marathon, and it's those last couple miles, and we've just got to really make sure that we're ready to go. And so that's when all these different decisions and game time decisions are gonna come into place, right? And so I think that's gonna be a really important chapter, just like these game time, like what can come up, and what questions to ask, and how not to make rash decisions, and maybe you could be a part of that decision-making process for whatever the result is. And it's not done to you.

Dr. Shannon (33:41.384)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (33:57.735)
It's done with you.

Dr. Shannon (33:58.944)
And I've often said, it's been teased out as you share your birth story and things. It's kind of like, okay, what's the real feeling from that birth? What are we teasing out? And mine was very much that like, I felt like everything was happening to me and I was not an active participant. And I think, because sometimes birth, I mean, you've got to get to that point where you surrender, right? So there's that aspect too, but it's that...

Danielle Drobbin (34:15.498)
Yep. Right.

Danielle Drobbin (34:23.746)
Right, right.

Dr. Shannon (34:29.undefined)
There's a difference there, I think. I think there's a difference between surrendering into the birth and then you're surrendering into maybe a medical management of birth. I don't know, but.

Danielle Drobbin (34:36.237)
Sure, right. Well, and so I know this is, when I think, so when I think, this is, I think, what gets me in my soul, in my heart and in my soul, is that being pregnant and making a human being is so incredibly powerful, right? How incredible, like you could have helped to conceive. We're a lesbian couple. We didn't get pregnant on our own, right? We needed some sort of help.

to get us pregnant. However, once you are pregnant, once that embryo is there, it divides, cells divide and create life. And it creates eyeballs and kidneys and liver. And this is like, how incredibly powerful is that, right? Yet when we get to this process of birthing this baby or even prenatally throughout, it is like, you are not powerful. You don't know any better than that innate intelligence that is creating some liver cells right now. And

You don't know it. So then a woman or a birthing individual is then sometimes right? Numbed, completely numbed to what's going on in their body, strapped down, cut open. If there could be anything that in my brain is like so powerless during the most powerful moment of your life, isn't that just so wild?

Dr. Shannon (35:58.036)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (35:58.87)
And this is why I get enraged in the inside. It's like, no, you're not powerful. You are so powerful. You're the most powerful you've ever been. You are going to birth a baby. Like you are so incredibly powerful. And we need to be pushing into that and leaning into that instead of taking all, just getting stripped of their power.

Dr. Shannon (36:07.3)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (36:20.97)
It's so upsetting to me. That's my driving force, right? Like, sorry, I could go on. It's coming out.

Dr. Shannon (36:21.365)
Mm-hmm. I know. It is. Mm-hmm. Nope, see, there it comes. There it comes, there's the passion. It's coming out. This is why we love Dr. Danielle. Ha ha ha, there you go. Ha ha ha. I love it. Ha ha ha. See, this is why. This is why we love you. But I'm so excited for this book. Is there anything interactive in it as far as...

Danielle Drobbin (36:36.178)
Already did that.

Danielle Drobbin (36:48.658)
Yeah. Sure. Right. Yeah. Yes. So also what I've learned about books is that, and book writing, is that if you think about the actual paper of a book is very light and flimsy. So you either have like a book that you read or a work book, right? If you think about the paper quality. And so I would like to have a like,

Dr. Shannon (36:49.112)
you know, like tables, worksheets or something, like, yeah, you read it, but sometimes I'm a real big, like I love little self-help books every once in a while, and then like, do I do anything with it? Like, do I, so is there something with it?

Dr. Shannon (37:13.968)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (37:18.822)
a side like workbook or like a little pocket like book that you could like bring with you to your visits. And I would like to have tables. I'm going to see. So there's going to be tables where you could put like benefit risk. You could actually put in numbers and percentages. So even in my life, I make decisions. I go pro con and I'm like, oh man, that con list is like all the way down here and the pro is one here. Like I obviously shouldn't do it. You know? So I'd like to have tables. And then also I want because framing.

Dr. Shannon (37:31.78)
and

Dr. Shannon (37:37.12)
Mm-hmm. Who knew? Uh-huh. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (37:48.874)
is crazy. You know, you could say you have a 1% chance of not winning the lottery or a 99% chance of winning the lottery. And I'm like, well, I'm definitely gonna play the lottery. Like, so it's just the way that you can frame certain things. And so I'd like to actually show tables of like the risk assessment, right? So high risk, you're, you know, over 36 or whatever, and that could be like a tiny sliver.

It could be like a 1% higher or a VVAC, could be however, whatever percentage it is, if it's a 2%, 3%, okay, but now you have a 97% chance of success, right? Where your risk is 2% higher or even less than a 1%. So I wanna have tables like that as well so we can actually see and demystify the framing.

Dr. Shannon (38:17.219)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:28.142)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:31.6)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (38:37.324)
It's like, don't forget the other side of the equation. You know, like, yes, we, you know, that's, that seems very medically minded management of putting that information out because it is very fear-based, you know, but what's the other side of the equation? How often does it end up successfully? Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (38:48.366)
Sure. Yeah.

Right, and so...

Right, and so you know, you show me 3% or 97%, I'm most likely gonna choose the 97%, whatever that is.

Dr. Shannon (39:02.6)
Mm-hmm. When you helped birth your baby in the car and you had to, that's right, so she birthed the baby. When you caught the baby, yeah, you're like, no, yes, thank you for catching that. How did you, because you mentioned, because I wrote a little note here, I always take notes while I do interviews because I wanted to touch back on this, but you said you had to choose fate.

Danielle Drobbin (39:12.482)
Catch my baby, because my wife birthed her. I can't take any credit for that, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (39:31.812)
So what was one thing you did in that moment that helped you to choose that when you were kind of balancing between the two?

Danielle Drobbin (39:38.286)
So, I mean, so just so you know, she had her first contraction and then the baby was out in our hands 45 minutes later. Okay, and I actually drove from my office home in that timeframe. So there wasn't a lot of like thinking happening, but when she said, pull over the baby's head is coming out and I was like, oh, okay. So I pulled over into Briercliff apartment complex parking lot.

Dr. Shannon (39:52.79)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (40:03.998)
And I ran into the back and she was in a, you know, awesome power house birthing position, one leg down, one knee up. And the head was, you know, coming in and out. And I said, I will, can you curse on podcasts? I don't know. But I said, holy, yeah. I said, holy whatever. This is like F-ing happening right now. And I like freaked out. And then I just looked up and I would say I'm,

Dr. Shannon (40:10.896)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (40:21.825)
We can put a little... yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (40:33.522)
I'm Jewish, I believe in God and spirit. And I said, I just know God, you're gonna like lead, everything's gonna be okay, and you're gonna lead me in the exact direction we need to have, like happen. And I just remember thinking that, like God is with me right now. And it was just a moment, so I said, holy whatever, this is f-ing happening. And then I, and that's my fear, that's my fear brain, right? And then I said, God, I know this is gonna be okay, I know you're gonna lead whatever's gonna happen.

Dr. Shannon (40:45.664)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Dr. Shannon (40:52.652)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (40:57.22)
Mm-hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (41:01.814)
whatever's supposed to happen, and it just switched to faith. And that's it, and it wasn't like a conscious, it was like it just happened. Because I had to get out of that, I had to get out of that fear-based model and mindset and into trusting what was happening, because it was just gonna happen anyway, so it wasn't like there was any stopping it.

Dr. Shannon (41:04.851)
Mmm, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (41:09.26)
It just happened.

Dr. Shannon (41:19.028)
And trust that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But leaning into that intuition a bit, because obviously too, your wife leaning into that intuition too, in that, yeah, I can birth this baby. Maybe I didn't want to burn in the Barcliffe complex, but here we are. So I love that I think that the book will transcend, I've said this multiple times, but the birth process itself, and it sounds like it's, use it at,

Danielle Drobbin (41:25.612)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (41:30.75)
Right. Yeah, yes.

Dr. Shannon (41:48.908)
you preconceptively and get into that mindset of looking at decision science and evaluating your values and your morals and all of that and what's important to you and then coming from that space and making decisions. I don't know, we're not tied that we should have that in school. That should be should be a class in school accounting, how to do your taxes and decision science because I don't know.

Danielle Drobbin (42:09.29)
Decision science. That's right.

Dr. Shannon (42:15.572)
I got a middle schooler and I'm like, I don't know, I've never used that math before in my life. Um, all right, friend, anything else you want to mention about the book?

Danielle Drobbin (42:19.342)
I know, not excited about that. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (42:28.694)
Um...

Danielle Drobbin (42:32.746)
No, no, you know, I just, I'm just excited. I hope that, I hope, my hope is that it helps somebody and it helps change our birthing climate is my hope. Because we have to change that, right? We have to open up our eyes and we have to change, because we're part of the problem, right? And so we've got to change that.

Dr. Shannon (42:50.404)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Shannon (42:56.812)
That was the other question I had kind of wrote down because you said you wanted to bring education to the birthing community, but how is it failing us and how can we change it? That's probably a whole topic for another show, but you know, put you on the spot in a nutshell.

Danielle Drobbin (43:11.654)
I mean, yeah. Yeah, right. You know, I mean, how to, you know, I think maybe if providers got reimbursed more for better outcomes, you know, maybe they would prefer that. I think maybe if just people looked into it more, did more research and found like-minded providers, right? So I think that, well, I mean, I definitely think if providers were reimbursed with, when they had better outcomes and less intervention used, that would...

Dr. Shannon (43:22.064)
Hmm.

Danielle Drobbin (43:40.182)
change the climate completely.

Dr. Shannon (43:42.448)
Hmm, that's a big one. That's a big one. Because unfortunately that is what drives a lot of the healthcare system. Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (43:48.622)
to be a driving force. It can be, I'm not saying it is, but it 100% can be. So I don't know if the providers are gonna like my book, but you know, I'm not put on this earth, yeah.

Dr. Shannon (43:57.279)
Yeah.

Dr. Shannon (44:00.46)
For some, I'm just going to say, I don't think you came here to really care about what a few providers think of you. And that's why we love you. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Okay. So where can people find you and connect with you? Because I know you're on social media and you have your office in Atlanta. So share all of that information with us.

Danielle Drobbin (44:08.696)
I don't think so.

Danielle Drobbin (44:14.064)
You know? Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (44:22.61)
Yep. So for my office, we are midtownfamilywellness.com. We're on Instagram and Facebook as Midtown Family Wellness and TikTok. Not the best at TikTok though. And then I do have another website drdanyeldraben.com. And that is for more like speaking engagements, you know, where we're going to host Selling the Book. So that is more on.

a thought leadership side, but my personal practice is midtownfamilywellness.com.

Dr. Shannon (44:59.472)
Very good. Now, where can people find information about the book and like when it comes out and that type of thing? Is that more at danieldrobin.com? Dr. Daniel Drobin? Okay. Yeah. Okay, good. So I'm gonna link everything that you just mentioned. I'm gonna put in the show notes there and have all the links so folks can go there, check you out and follow you and have fun. So.

Danielle Drobbin (45:10.482)
Yep, yeah, it'll be on both, but it'll be hosted on drdanyaldraven.com. Yep.

Danielle Drobbin (45:25.584)
Yeah, yay, yay. Awesome.

Dr. Shannon (45:29.668)
Thank you so, so much for being on the show and taking time. Cause you know, obviously you've got a very busy office for children and now you're writing a book. So you're like, why don't I just take some time out of my schedule and chat with me? But I do appreciate it. I love your energy and passion. And yeah, I have a feeling that you're making waves and gonna change this birth community that is so desperately needing to change. So, yes. Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (45:32.556)
Yeah.

Danielle Drobbin (45:39.426)
Hello!

Danielle Drobbin (45:55.49)
Thank you for having me and allowing me to share. So, you know, I appreciate that. Yes.

Dr. Shannon (45:59.321)
Of course. Thank you so much.