Ep 89: Ultramarathons and Birth

Can birth be compared to an ultramarthon - sure!  Just ask me, Dr. Shannon.  In today’s episode, doula Rachael and I sit down to discuss the unique way I celebrated a recent milestone birthday……running 40 miles for 40 years.  Now I am an avid runner, and I’ve used big races to celebrate big life events in the past (like graduating from chiropractic school), but Rachael was able to ask me some questions that will have you seeing the similarities between birth and endurance races like you might not have thought before…….the training and preparation leading up to the race, the pre-race jitters, getting to race day and everything goes awry, pushing through the pain, the mental games we play during races, finally reaching the finish line, and the post-race recovery……

We think you’ll be entertained and surprised at some ultramarathon coping mechanisms I used, and maybe you’ll even learn some techniques for any upcoming endurance events you might have.  

Follow Dr. Shannon on social media at:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr_shannon_obrien/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrShannonOBrien 

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• 15:25 (Cont.) Ep 89: Ultramarathons and Birth

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the aligned birth podcast. This is doula Rachael starting us out today. And that is because I am here today with Dr. Shannon as always, and we are talking about a major accomplishment and B that she just took over which is running 40 miler trail run in December to commemorate her 40th birthday, and we couldn't help but notice the parallels like when talking about it and for her her experience that she shared with me, the parallels drawn between pregnancy and childbirth, motherhood and preparing for and accomplishing such a major feat of running 40 miles in the woods at night, with fog and rain and all the things like things that you can predict right. So how so today I'm talking with Dr. Shannon about this ultra marathon that she ran for her 40th birthday, and we're going to hear all about how she prepared for it. What she learned from it, how it went and find some parallels in there between it and the birth.

1:24

Hello, and welcome to the Allied birth podcast. We are so glad you're here. I'm Dr. Shannon of prenatal chiropractic.

1:30

And I'm Rachel a birth doula and childbirth educator and we are the team behind the Alliance birth podcast.

1:38

Between us we have experienced necessary in birth a VBAC, hospital birth and home birth. Our personal experiences led us to where we are today we share a lot in common

1:47

We are friends from high school who reconnected through our work. We both changed career paths after the birth of our own children. We light up when talking about health and birth and we are both moms to two young boys. This podcast

2:00

was created to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all. Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

2:15

We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind and your intuition you can conquer anything. We hope you enjoy the episode

2:33

so excited, so proud of you, Dr. Shannon. So welcome.

2:37

Yay.

2:41

Some crazy. Um, and I even this race was fun. I say that now. I very commonly remember when it wasn't fun, and I was actually still running the race when it wasn't fun anymore. That happens right? We just recorded an episode to talking about holding to truths. Well, the same thing happens with running right I think sometimes people think with runners or any sort of athlete or doing something that you love that you're always going to love it and there was a lot of times that I didn't. And so yeah, I don't even think that now like how is

3:23

my running going? Be honest. Be honest about it. Right. And it's okay to say it was fun. And it was hard. It was two things. It was more than two things, but it was two things.

3:33

Yeah. So it's what you did my I had my sights set on this. So I am a runner I have been running for 34 years now I can say because I ran my first race when I was six. So actually it will be this May when I will have been running for specifically 34 years. But I don't know I found the sport. I loved it. I think it speaks a little bit to the fact that I am an only child and so it's a very easy sport to do by yourself. You know, and then every time I tried to do a sport that did involve some sort of like I hand coordination, it wasn't really the best. So I was like, I'll just stick with running and I feel like I found it kind of early on. And in the past, you know, I ran throughout high school. I did not run and college. I wish I had at least tried I think back on that a lot. And I talked about that a lot. But I still like stuck with it. And so it just it It followed me through all phases of life, which is kind of cool. You know thus far, and when I was in chiropractic school, let's say no, I ran my first marathon. I think it was before I had my first so and I think it was like 2008 or something like that. So and that was interesting in the end funny enough my father in law is there. My husband is not a runner. My father in law was a really big runner. And he like I just ran I didn't really have these I'd never really heard of Boston or anything like these big, you know, running goals that people have. And he would mention those things to me and if it was him to where I was like, Oh, well maybe I'll try a marathon you know? Sounds That sounds fun. That was

5:25

never like say that

5:28

experience right? Does it I don't know if running is so neat because there's so many different things you can train for within the same sport. You can train for speed, you can train for distance, you can train for endurance like all of these different things, different race conditions different race locations. But I had done a marathon and then I when I was in chiropractic school, I made a point. I didn't want to lose my fitness. I didn't want to lose that aspect of running. So I picked a race to run at the end of every quarter because we were in the quarter system. So that kept me up with it and ran Boston while I was in chiropractic school as well, which means I had to qualify for it, which that was bad. So it's been throughout life. And then I always I like to use it. I don't know why I use it to like celebrate certain things sometimes. So when I graduated chiropractic school, my gift to myself was my first 50k which is an ultramarathon. I don't know what that was my gift. I did gift to myself, so I trained for that I graduated and it was like the month after graduation I ran like the Decatur trail race up in Kentucky was called Gamma Cross it was in Stearns, Kentucky that was gorgeous. I still vividly remember bits and pieces of it and then I ran another one several years I don't know why that was just because just because and then other races I've done you know throughout without there being a big reason to it. But I've I've used running as far as these little things to set goals for for lots of different things in life. So

6:54

appropriate 40

6:55

miles so I was like down this array several years ago. And it's got its run at time Mountain, Georgia. So that's like South Georgia to Columbus. And it's at the FDR State Park which is massive expanse of land for you 40 miles and I was like that would be really cool to do like 40 miles for 40 years and I really think I'd come up with this at like when I was like 35 or so. So it was like it was it was on my radar for a very long time. Now the race has changed a bit it used to be it has different race directors now or from in the past. And then it was at one point like a 46 mile race and I was like, well that doesn't so I can't remember when that happened or if it did and it shifted but I remember coming up on I just turned 40 in January. of 2023. And so this race was perfect because it's in December. And if I've learned anything if you don't plan a big race, like on your actual birthday or on the actual event, because that big event is whatever you're training for it you're gonna have to recover and so you know, like make it something so I celebrated my birthday a month before with this race and luckily it was still the 40 mile version of it. So that's why well, I don't know what but you know, that's the connection of the race and to me what you know the timing was

8:22

right, the mileage was right, Tiny. book four. I really was a fun way to close out 2022 Because you spent a big chunk of the year training. So yeah, tell us a little bit about how you prepared. Yeah, so

8:38

I've had little goals before too. So like one year, I wanted to run a race every month. So I did that. That was 2019 I think in 2020 when pandemic hit and everything I just decided to run 100 miles every month. So I did that. I don't know what I did in 2021. I still was ran but I have these little you know, I'd always run you know so like always kind of putting it in there but this one it was I gave myself 16 I think I did 16 weeks to train and I did looking back over I logged probably about 650 miles so I did do and it was going out on weekends and I was running you know running for hours one day on a trail and five hours next standard trail I can work up to that type of thing. Everybody's training plan is different but that was about all that was about it. I mean it was it was a lot and things co stars had to align with kids and schedules and husband's schedule because it's, I guess I will say this I guess I make it sound like oh yeah, I just went out and run it was a lot of planning and preparation like this went in my calendar. I plan like my exercises, my runs, everything goes in my calendar because it's important to me and so if I schedule it, I have a better chance of doing it.

9:57

It's necessary this is not a race you just jump into it have to train and so like in like a funky golfer a 30 minute run you would go out and run for several hours at a time right Yeah, and

10:10

you know you gotta learn to carry I mean, I've always carried water and stuff but I gotta learn how like how much water do I need what's you know, nutrition supplements I made and understanding the race day Yeah, you'll have you have aid stations, but they may not have what you want. You know when really upset your stomach. You don't really want to change things race day, like all of that. All those type of things too. Because once I got to I remember getting to the point of being like with my training and saying Okay, today we're really focusing on nutrition. I know I can go out and I can do this three hour run you know, that's that's not the problem. I've got the endurance once I get into the now I need to figure out like, when do I want to eat? How do I want to eat? What does how does this feel and those types of things? So yeah, there's there's a little bit of extra stuff,

10:53

some planning and I mean, the only reason I've ever ran are the highest is a half marathon so it's like 13 miles. So for me 13 Miles I'm not I'm not gonna go that whole run and maybe only have water for me. Whereas like anything overnight, you have to start thinking about planning logistically for gear it

11:13

depends on your goal too because even for my that some of the half marathons I've done it depends if I'm going for because I've done it before to going for a certain speed. I did have to have some supplements, you know,

11:27

and like playing I mean all that

11:29

so and again it really it. It's different for each race. It's different for it's different for those goals. You know how hard you're going to be pushing yourself what you know, how do you want to feel with that type of thing.

11:41

What was your goal for this race?

11:44

Oh my gosh don't trip don't oh my god. Ah, it because it's a trail race. There's also trails.

11:57

I wanted to I really wanted to enjoy it. I had some like, I remember the night before the race I had like some of my goals but I guess like at the beginning I really wanted to finish it, you know, like because there is a very big chance and a possibility that you know with this big eraser that distance and that type of thing that I may not finish it

12:22

yeah injury though.

12:23

I mean, I had Yeah, exactly. Injury and I have I have a metal plate and eight screws and my right angles with that and I was like man, I still really want to do this race even though I felt a little bit of hiccups with that with that ankle, but you know, that's just life but that was a big one. I was like, I don't want to trip but you know,

12:44

it seems silly but it is a big deal because tripping can lead to knocking you off your game and causing an injury

12:50

and in the race as people left and right. And I would go into the aid stations. I'd be like, hey, there's a guy back there. Same smile. Bless his heart. He's great. He finished a song with it. But still I was like, my record. I know. I know I know. So I did have a time ish goal in mind I what I do is I look at I'll go and look at the race, the race history and who has what does the finish time look like? And then I look at my runs and my pace that I've been running and then I try to extrapolate it to the courses I've been training on. We're not as hard as what I was going to run which I did the best I could. You ideally want to run harder than what your race is going to be. But I also I use the trailhead near me it was I did what I could so I knew that. I had you know, I wanted to finish in. I think I wanted to finish in eight hours. And you beat that right? No, it did not work. A little bit a little bit longer, like 850 Right.

13:51

50 Okay. Yeah, I think I'm 750 or

13:53

eight today

13:54

now and part of the race. I was like,

13:55

Oh, this could happen and I was like, No, this is not gonna happen. And it's

13:59

understandable right and until I change the details, yeah. Being flexible, can you so what motivated you to want to commit to this event?

14:12

Again, I had seen it and I had wanted to do it for so long that I knew if I didn't at least try because of whatever reason fear. I didn't want to put forth the effort into training. That's the thing. I would love to go. Yeah, I would totally love to go do a run and run the marathon. You know, I do enjoy it, but the training is so broken. That just takes so much time since I've done a triathlon. I was like, Dear God, I don't have time to do anything else. Yeah, and I that's where that's why I don't do a marathon every year or something like that. Like it's always close. Yeah. And how I run my business how I am with my husband and my kids and where I want to put forth effort like it is usually I'm like, Okay, this is I have to piece it in there but I would be disappointed in myself if I didn't at least try it. I know I would have been. So that was a big thing too. And I remember there was something I had seen on social media, which was so interesting, and it said that why would a mom want to have an unmedicated birth and experience that pain? And the the whoever posted it, I wish I had saved it had countered and said like, Why did marathoners run marathons when they know it will be painful? You know, it's kind of, I don't know, there was something in that because I felt a little crazy for wanting to do this race, but I was like, but I want to do this like this is something I want to do.

15:39

Because it's it's a pain that like you get reward from right we get endorphins when we have pain. People put themselves in all kinds of circumstance getting tattoos powerlifting long distance running. You know, birth like all kinds of things that aren't negative, like it has positive reward on the other side and somebody will really, really enjoy that and it benefits them in many ways.

16:04

When I don't know maybe I do like the aspect of having a little goal and training and it's it speaks to my personality type it speaks to my Enneagram I think all of those

16:14

being able to fulfill that is important, and I commend it. No one should judge it

16:18

fear. Yeah. I mean, I did feel a little crazy, but it was good, but that's

16:22

okay. I mean, I think anytime again kind of probably scared and kind of feeling crazy. Like why am I doing this? It's a big deal. But that's like the dude the thing that kind of,

16:31

yeah, a little bit scary thing. I know. My husband one time my sister in law was coming in town, and it was during like training or something like that. Because again, I was doing that for 16 weeks. So it was like what are you doing this weekend? I'm going to run and he said something about my sister's coming in town. Oh God, this was a hot mess to Oh, I remember this now. And I did. He was like, I was like, Why do you have to run that day? He's like, What are you gonna have to like run for like five hours? And I remember going Yes, yes, I do actually have to run for five hours. He was like joking. And I was like, This is funny. Then I ended up doing the long run she came in town we were hosting and are supposed to fix dinner and it was just horrible. No so tired and nothing

17:16

worked out. Oh god other figured that that was great. No, no great family was

17:19

in town but I was also like, I am never hosting after I have run for five hours,

17:24

right? Yeah, there's a drawl that that's not reasonable.

17:30

No, no, no, no. But yeah, well,

17:34

that's cool. That's a fun parallel. I liked it. That was

17:38

I saw that in the midst of training and I was like, That's right. That's right.

17:42

You know, I and I do it all the time in the birth world. I've like, why there's epidurals. There's pain management, like why would any anyone want to not?

17:51

And then there's if you do use the pain medications, but not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that some people like just tap in do you want to try to experience that What could that be like? What could that be like? Did you give it a shot great and it worked great. It didn't find like,

18:08

I don't know judgment either. Either way, like you're judging the non runners or people who don't I mean, because for the vast majority are in a very

18:16

I mean, I don't understand why you don't want to run but I'm just kidding.

18:21

But some people feel that way about choosing an unmedicated birth and we'll be like, why on earth would you choose an epidural? And why on earth would anyone want that right? And they go through everything possible to avoid it? Because everyone has different motivations. And different reasons. And it's all valid. Yeah, that's cool. So getting to the race day. I know I get pregame pre race jitters. Did you experience anything like that? Do you have any like, rituals or like, do you wear the same thing? Do you eat the same thing? Do you what do you do? Tell me

18:59

it's difficult when you are traveling for a race to so kind of like packing your hospital bag, you know, because if you're going somewhere it's like oh my gosh, I My biggest fear is I'm only bringing one shoe. Like I'm not gonna lie. Like why would I ever pack once you I don't know. I don't know how that could happen. But that is like that is a very tangible,

19:21

fear, fear.

19:23

Or I don't have my sport but like, and I couldn't go out obviously because

19:26

those are essential to those are

19:29

Yeah, like so that aspect of like the packing I give myself time to pack you know, and I go I lay everything out. Well in the running world they call it like the flat Shannon or whatever your name is and it's like you lay out their running clothes. And then I had I did drop back so the the race is if the race is long enough, you can put things in bags and leave it at certain aid points. And so then I had I had to drop bags, but it was gonna rain. So then I had to put it in the black bags. I had the label and it was just it was like it was we were thrown a curveball. A process of Yes. So typically there's race day jitters to begin with, and then adding in extra things. So I was also going by myself, I was staying at a lodge by myself. I didn't know where I was driving. And yeah, all of those things. So I gave myself you know, plenty of time. I tried to do that in there, but I ended up crashing a wedding. When I got to the lodge. I literally drove through it. I was like I'm sorry guys. You are literally taking pictures right here. Now I was like that's great. My Lodge was gorgeous and amazing. And that was fun. That definitely had a giant heart shaped tub.

20:49

About died when I

20:51

found out to go Wow.

20:53

Like, oh God, and I was like, Oh, I could do like post race recovery in here. And it didn't work. So that's okay. So I'm doing that a big ol like, yeah, at a at an order sign. That's okay. Yeah, it was it was great. And then

21:08

when I was going it was I did plan this also too because it was the SEC championship. So I'm a huge Georgia football fan. So Southeastern Conference sec i Sorry i personally think is the best football conference there is not necessary, but I the game was on that night so my there was literally one place in town to watch it. And everybody was there a big part I there was a massive lineup the door and I was like man, I don't know where I'm going to eat dinner. So but I went in and there was this like, it was like 10 minute wait for this little single table up by the bar. I just and I ordered and two appetizers that a meal. I mean I had a ton of food

21:52

on purpose. I

21:55

thought that I was about to run really far. And I deserved it. I don't know. It really had nothing. Yeah, I got lots

22:04

of vote is carb loading? i It is

22:08

and it isn't I tried to do it smartly. I really did want a salad so I did get the meal as a salad like I like it with steak but also too I didn't need to be mindful of like I was gonna go through a ton of carbs the next day so then I did get like these really cool cauliflower like bites and then I got loaded. Which sounds amazing again not that I run to in order to eat things. I know that in the running world there can be some aspects of that, you know, and being mindful of those happening but I did felt that I deserved that. So yeah, so that was pre race and so then got home and then that evening I did the journaling this was probably the most intentional I've been on a race though, and tried to get my my head right and that was where I wrote out when I say I wanted to be smart with my pace and my supplements because I was going to be running for so long. I didn't want to start out fast and my my training runs had been on courses where I had been running faster and I knew I needed to slow it down but it can be a little bit hard. I wanted to adapt to conditions. I'll get to that in a minute and I wanted to enjoy it. To those

23:22

who journaled on the metallurgy were like being intentional about the guys. I think

23:27

this was probably one of the first races where I did that where I was very intentional. But also to on some of the other big ones the family was with me. When I ran at the time when I ran my fastest marathon, the family we stayed in a river boat. That was the worst idea ever. And because we were all in one room and Dylan was like 10 months old. Yeah. And so I we the family was there and when we didn't yam Accra, like the family was there. This was really the first one that I had traveled to that like it was just me. I didn't I don't know. I yeah, I would want to be up there at the finish. But I also didn't want to make them drive all the way down here. Wait, forever well, and so

24:09

I just go where you're at. It's entitled, Why did you enjoy that? I've done a couple solo trips on purpose.

24:16

And I really enjoy that's kind of how

24:17

that turned into. Like this was a solo trip. I've done training runs where I went out on my own on purpose and like stay in and came back. But this was yeah, this was fun.

24:27

Yeah, little journaling.

24:28

And then I did not sleep just because the nerves it's just nerves. I was

24:33

worried about sleep. The day before I tried it before big

24:37

right now I really didn't sleep oh my god like it's time to get up. Here we go.

24:42

So yeah, I'm gonna be operating on adrenaline maybe only lasts for so long. So can you like tell us from like how the how it started and any highlights along the way that

24:57

Yeah, sure. Let's so another thing with the race is that it started at 6am and at that time of the year in December, the sun is usually not really coming out until about like 730 Although you get first light you know since not so headlamps were required, which was fine except for my broke like the day I had to go out the day before I was leaving to get a new headlamp because it fell apart because I was fine. Got my new headlamps that I did have a mini freakout that I didn't bring the charging cord because you didn't charge it anyways. So it's a whole thing. So I had my headlamp but then I was trying to use it sparingly because I also needed to last for an hour and a half as I was running in the dark. And so like the start of the race and it's super missed it this is the most fog I have ever dealt with in my life. And I've talked with driving I was like I'm gonna hit a deer. I was like, I'm gonna hit some animal on the way my GPS, of course didn't work at that point. But I had driven to and from the start of the race so much that I knew where I was going, which was great but it was so foggy and so the whole time I was like okay, I'm already having to adapt to conditions because

26:10

from the get go because obviously well

26:12

I could have done some training runs in the dark but I just didn't want to and I've run relay races Ragnar races I've run it too am I run in the dark so I have done it before however, this was this is different because there's the trail. I don't typically I have done road trails at night too. But still again, sidebar. But yeah, getting to the start. That was really, really, really tough. The very beginning because the race starts and I get in this group, this pot of people. I really think that I don't even know how many people read it but it was not very many at all. And I get stuck in this group. And I'm like in the middle. So is there's like a group in front of me some folks behind me. We've all got you know your headlamps on? And it's pitch black. And these people are already they like they're walking the hills. I'm like we literally just started and that wasn't that wasn't my goal. That wasn't my plan. It was everything that was I did not want I was like well, So already I was like okay, my pace was already off. We got to my old one that was like 39 to go like I remember saying that I was like, this is not and so it was very much resistance for me. I was I couldn't see and I didn't I was too scared to try to pass people and go out on my own because it was so dark. So I acknowledged that and I was like well, is it worth it? Or should you just stay here at every single time I started getting frustrated with like, how slow we were going in or walking out I would stumble a bit like I would lose my footing. And so I'd be like, Alright, keep it in check. Like I just told myself like you just this is where we're at. I mean I had kind of big because I wrote things down. I had to be okay with where I was at that point. And I had knowing that like I do have several miles to make any sort of, you know, PACE difference or anything that I wanted, but I couldn't find my rhythm. I couldn't find my rhythm. That's my word of the year for this year. And it was a big focus of my training because I struggled in my training of not being able to find my rhythm and I remember having one really good run where I did and so this was tough to start this race off and I was like, I can't find my rhythm

28:27

because I find that once it's been disrupted,

28:29

it was disrupted there were too many things going wrong and so I really had to just settle down into where I was and I was okay with not pushing the pace and passing people. I was like I'm just gonna have to every one lady was running with a lantern. I remember her she was so cute. Like this,

28:47

that even it was great.

28:51

But that was that was really tough once the sun came up and I had a couple things. I wrote him down. I had him in my head. I had things that I'll go through those at the end with little just little tidbits but then some came up and I was able to pass people then I started the beginning I didn't break it down into sections. But it's such a long race I started to so in my head. I started breaking it down. Okay, this was the first 10 miles you know, so I broke it kind of into quarters. And so the next little bit I finally did break away and then I was by myself for a very long time. So much so that every time I'd be like I don't know if I'm on the right path. It was a lot it was very technical trails, you know, in technical in the aspect of there's lots of roots and rocks, but then it's also like little narrow aspects of things. And so the next little set of maps are breaking it up into quarters. I ran the mile and track in high school and you

0:00

Do you always say that it's the third mile that's the hardest so you it's four laps and so the first two you got it you just keep going the third one you're like dear god because the last one you know you can push through on adrenaline you can make it but it's that third one and so I knew coming into this to like I was in that, you know, second set of buttons is like about 11 to 20. That was like, everything. I felt really, really good. I just felt really good. However, I got to mile 20. Brian looked at my pace. This was a lot of like, I was looking at my watch with the pace and can I push the pace? Can I get back on track and that type of thing. And when I got to mile 20, so that's halfway I should have been at four hours if I wanted to finish at eight and I was like, this is not gonna happen. This is not gonna happen because of how technical it was. I was like, I can't push the pace enough. Yeah, I couldn't do it safely to like actually finish I didn't want to crash either. I didn't want to be one. Of those people come in and and crawling does that very easily going to happen? So very wise was where and running and doing math. We're doing math in general in my head, but when you're trying to do like base math, just like if a train leaves the station I'm just oh my god. I don't know. So that's why I was like, okay, mild 20 I will know if I'm halfway. Halfway there. And I was Yeah. That's when I realized that that that eight hour race wasn't going to happen. So again, had to adapt there too. And be I had to be okay with that. Right. I affectionately call the next set of miles and miles 21 through 30. This was the grind the grind. Because I had run this far before when I when you do a 50k It's like it's typically 31 miles. So like I have run this before, but this is always the part of race every time I've done an ultra I call my husband and I'm crying because I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to finish and he's always it's always very much like well, you kind of have to

2:07

like transition.

2:08

It it. I mean, do you see Do you get it? I'm geeking out on. So I always call him and oh yeah. Oh my. So back at mile 23. I called him a little bit. I called him later in that so we'll get to that in a minute. But mile 23 This is the other thing too. You're on these trails, and you're just like, you're climbing and you know you're climbing and your freaking watch is telling you Oh, you're climbing a hill I love when Garmin tells me that I'm climbing a hill like I don't know that I'm climbing a hill. These were all the arguments I would have in my head. And so it's kind of like you're hooked up to the monitors. I know I'm having a contraction. Thanks for telling me. Trump's got it. You know, I don't need that. But you can't and then there's like you're just on the trails. You don't see anything. So I'm like, Who the hell am i How, how high? Where am I and I came at mile 23 And I stopped at a couple points and like took some pictures and stuff like that because that's what I do. And I came around this corner and I was like, and it was like this massive overlook, and I had a little Sign and Label. And I was like wow. I mean it was stunning because finally the sun had broken through. It wasn't missed anymore, but I will say it was pretty humid for December. I would say it's pretty humid for December and I just remember being like, Oh wow, this is and I love to run I love the views on the trail runs. I love trails. So this was kind of like Oh remember remember you like to do this. Right? It was the the trail was marked very well. But that doesn't matter because if you're running something that you haven't run before, you're still going to freak out that you're lost. So and there would be these the trail markers were green and white stripes. But then the FDR Park is is marked as well. There's trail markers. So there you'll see the blazes. They're usually the trees that are colored like red, white, and blue. Those are the colors and so I'd be like I'm on the white trail for this and then you go to the blue trail. So you have all these different markers but there would be several times I stopped at one point and I just got really quiet. I was like I don't hear anybody. Is there anybody around here running? Like am I going the right way like I was? And I was like, Well, what if I just keep going just a little bit further. And as soon as I would do that every time I see that Barker and I'm by myself I talked to myself on my runs, like out loud, very very loudly. And I was like confidence booster. Like I would point at it like the trail marker and I'd be like, yeah, like and I would just keep going. I feel like that's what the race director called them at the beginning of the race and you'll see the confidence boost or something

4:43

like that. I don't want

4:45

to go I know so I saw my I would see my trail markers. Um, I did end up running with this girl at one point. I wonder if it was in in this area. I can't remember. I think I may have been a little bit later. But yeah, so I usually call my husband crying I think I tried to call him at mile 25 And I had no service and I was like, like gaming you know, like I can do but I honestly when I wanted to call him i My main reason I felt fine, is I was not going to finish when I thought I was going to finish so not that you know he knew exactly when I started and when I should be done but I was gonna try to let him know that I was way off schedule. And so then at mile 29.9 I remember this. I finally got through and of course he doesn't frickin answer y'all. He didn't answer so come to find out it was hilarious. He's fixing a leak. And he was in the attic. And I was like, of all the times could you've not done that after my race. So I had to leave a message which was fine because then I got to hear the message after my race, you know, what did I sound like? Because I remember where I was how I was running. It was too funny. He was like You sounded oddly calm and like cuz I was running while I was talking and so this was the first time in any race where I called him and I wasn't upset. I wasn't crying. It was more of like, okay, but also that mild 30 That's usually when I'm done. I had 10 more miles. So I wanted to call him later crying. But that was the thing that's the only the only thing that I didn't call him again. I was like I think I could do this but I just pushed that that time a little bit. A little bit later. And the countdown then I kind of changed the countdown and I look at I can do I can run at four miles I can do 17 I only have 16 I only have 12 I only have you know like merkaba count but when I start counting down with the next set, mile 31 to 40 This is like the all new territory almost at again McCraw was really wrong. It was 32.8 miles which really pissed me off because I just didn't want to run that far. Like I don't know, you know when you're out there running another extra mile and a half is a frickin mile and a half. Yeah. So when I got to mile 32.8 I was like every step is like, new uncharted territory. You know, I was like, this is the farthest I have ever run like so it was. I mean, that's cool. It's cool for a minute and then you're like, I still have seven miles to go you know, like it was. That was a lot because then I break it down to okay, I can do seven miles I just have a ticket. I can do five miles like that's how I tend to break it down a little bit.

7:36

How many of those of you ran in your life like so many? That was the mental coaching you were doing? Break it down and keep going forward. So that's yes,

7:44

that was that's kind of how I break things down in my head with that. I then started to get really terrified that my GPS was wrong, and that I was going to end up at like 39.5 miles because I was gonna be pissed because you don't run 39.5 miles for 40 years. Okay. And in my head. I think that's how the trail was actually. I think that's what it says is like, if you look at the actual trail map, because someone had mentioned that I was like, dang it. I didn't think about that. And I was like if I have to run a half mile when I'm done I will do it but I will not be happy. I remember thinking that. And then I started thinking, Well, what if I because I did take a wrong turn at one point. And I was like, what if that added miles on and then what if I run 41 miles? That doesn't make sense either so I thought I was like whatever. I just have to keep going and

8:40

that distracted you for a minute. It did. It did.

8:44

I did come across another runner. I remember. I came across her in the sky and they were going the wrong way. And I was like hey guys, I think the trail just switched. They came over here she'd are very similar in pace, I guess that we were 10 years age difference and I'm pretty sure when I looked at the race stats afterwards we

9:01

were she's Yeah,

9:02

she was younger. Yeah. And I can tell I was like, Ooh, she's really good. She's fast. And she and I talked for a minute about how hard it was because I was like, I feel like I can't find my pace. Like my normal pace. She was saying, you know, it was just really technical. So it was good to have her but then I also I lost my rhythm a little bit like I got distracted in Okay, that's this is my pace. That's her pace. Like that's why I think why I love running so much to is you can use the other people, but you still have to kind of stick to what you can do and stick to your race like plan and that type of thing. So I remember struggling with that. The last 10 miles were Yeah, that was definitely that was that was hard. It was really really humid. And like I try I really tried to cry there were times where good like I tried to cry and I couldn't like I couldn't remember because it was all it was all like I was covered in like salt crystals and they give you all this food at

10:07

the aid stations. They had biscuits they had steak, they had case ideas, they had everything.

10:13

And every time I got to an aid station, I was like God Gatorade. I just went direct. I would see the food and I was like,

10:20

Oh my god. I can't if I eat steak right now I will die.

10:25

That's incredible, but people are stopping and eating.

10:29

Well they did have a 90 mile race as well. So there's a 40 mile and a 90 mile so the I started they started three hours afterwards afterwards. The 90 mile people did and I started passing them towards the end like some of those and so this one group of ladies oh this Australian girl she was like you're doing great. Like she was so cute but they were at that aid station and they were chowing down and I was like this is what I should have done.

10:54

More fun this more celebratory so

10:55

they just said I'm gonna run half my age. But anyways, so yeah, they I left all the food for them. I didn't want any of that. And then I fished I remember seeing Yeah, like the you know the site. I was like, I know it's coming up. It's always odd to when you're at the end and it's like you feel like you can hear it you feel like you can see you don't know where the trail is gonna go like where it's gonna come out if you haven't you know run it before but yeah, come it'll close but yet like yeah, like it's Yeah, so close was so far and I felt I felt really good at the end I had managed to, I had managed, you know, to do it to run and I you know, I use excuse me run loosely because when I look back if I watch you can see like your walked out because I would I didn't stop my watch. I would stop it at the aid stations if I stopped for a while but like if I was actually stopping but I didn't stop it when I walked and I was proud of myself out in that because this is the truth. You know, this was like, I'm still on the race. And so I had about 48 minutes of walking. But it I had realized that I was like holy moly when you when you've done races where and runs and training runs and you haven't walked at all I went to walking like 40 events, holy moly, but I even walked other Hills throughout because then I got to the point I even remember thinking to I was like one of the points with the hills. I can't remember where I even wrote it down. It was like I checked in to see like how much I could push. And sometimes it like it wasn't worth it. It was like is this hill worth it? No, some hills weren't and I was like, okay, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good. But other hills. I was like, this is just,

12:43

yeah, there's no way I would walk. I feel like that's impressive for that kind of race.

12:50

I thought you know, and I think a lot of people don't realize too when you do some of those trips like there is a lot of walking I follow this lady on Instagram and she I think she's done it several times and you know, had all kinds of insight and wisdom and she was like, Oh yeah, you walk in these races like yeah,

13:05

okay, you do it. Yeah. And embracing that maybe affords you the ability to finish because you're not so beat up on the fact that you had to walk a little bit. Yeah, that's incredible. I am just continually have that kind of a feat and just like, you know, just to go out and do it. That's like all the prep work and all the training and all the mental and then I think about like eight hours and I know it was a bit longer for you but like eight hours and like that mental Olympics that you're doing. And then you obviously the physical component, but that is like that's probably part maybe why you like it because of that challenge because you know, there's like an end but I think that'd be really really challenging but also really really rewarding. So like speaking about like what did you feel when it was over?

13:54

I would I got done I remember the race director was there he was like awesome job or whatever. And he said come over here you know when you once you recover. They really did have good like post race food too. And you get your award because I was the third overall female. But when he told me I was like, I'm pretty sure there were only three of us out there. I think come to find out there were like five but

14:18

still you know

14:21

that because I know I was like I just wanted to finish so a lot of it I guess the whole going back and looking at like the I had the issues running my own race I but I feel like I usually do it's to try to settle into that rhythm. So it is trying to find that and every race has a different rhythm. And so that's what so I know that that's what can be kind of neat. I definitely had to be okay with walking the hills. It was it being such a technical course there was two things that were so funny when I was running in the dark. I actually this was no when I was running in the dark it was more of it was so curvy. There was so much I couldn't see it was I just remember thinking in my head. I don't even know why it came to me but I had like two little Bible verses that came ahead and I was like, I felt like I was prancing because you couldn't really take a full step you had to like go around these rocks and stuff like that. Like the prints are sighs lady I was like I'm doing a whole new exercise. And I was like I'm not sure if put it at the deer I was like, No, like I remember repeating I was I don't even know where this is in the Bible, but I was sitting next to deer and then I remember saying to I was like, hey, he'll make my path straight. I'm sorry. I

15:39

never take the path straight. Like I remember just running. And like I just repeated those things that I had, which I thought was funny. But

15:48

the other the one thing that was crazy as I think my soreness was so bad was how unstable the surface was and those intrinsic muscles in the feet and the ankles. That was great. It was a next level soreness and it was even like, immediately after the race everybody. Immediately after the race. You can see him and I remember sitting down I was like ah I don't think I can get up like you know, I didn't really want to do anything else but I did find a turtle I one of my favorite things is always finding wildlife there. So at one of my races, I remember I found these little turtles on this rock. I've been chased by geese before which is a different experience. But yeah, this little turtle here just hanging out right in the middle of the trail. So seeing I don't know that always makes me really happy. So seeing the wildlife made me happy. I like I said I would talk to myself I would sing to myself, entertain myself and so are there any that

16:46

you would think to yourself?

16:49

Oh, I'm tired of these effing rocks, and I curse a lot when I run. So labor to curse a lot and so that was my I'm tired at the end. It was kind of like a scream like yeah, so that was one of my songs. I had a lot of my I had trail angels I called them there was one point where I don't know what it was. I just like my head was down it was in this too. You don't want to look straight down like the posture is bad, but don't look straight down. I'm gonna like you're trying to look up and I just was so focused. I just went like, I was just going straight. And this rant I heard all of a sudden, I came up you whistle or you just yelled and I was like, what's going on? I know I was like, there's no one else around you. And he was a camper because you could camp out I guess if these parts of the trails I don't know. I don't know why you wouldn't be here. And he was like the trail goes to the right. And I was like, no rap. Yeah. And I don't seem to be there to tell me so, but that was nice. But then I feel like I was able to be a trail angel for my other little people. I felt Yeah, as you're going the wrong way. So it was kind of Yeah, it was made to kind of do

0:00

I experienced that I have a certain shirt that I run on most of my hard races in. And I would always run my mother's day races and my father in law's told me many, many years ago. I've had it for a very long time. Anyway, when I was pregnant, so I've definitely had a postpartum it says run like a mother. Yeah. And that's when I know it's like one of my favorite, my favorite thoughts or sayings or whatnot. And so I always like to think of that when I'm out there like, I don't just me I'm not just running a me like I kind of think of it as like, you know, winning for my kids and running for you know, my husband running for what I think and believe and stuff. Sometimes it kind of meshes into that. I guess if I had to say, because I did. I mean, maybe in my thought process afterwards, because there's definitely so many parallels to life in the aspect of of training for the race and actually doing the race, but then the parallels to birth as well. And I know you've probably heard some as as we've been talking, but I definitely in my mind, it's kind of the race unfolds. You adapt, and you use the tools from your tool belt. And so those are like the three main things that I wrote down as far as like any of kind of like the parallels to it. There's probably even more that you've picked up on that I didn't even

1:25

so many. I wish I had written them down. I was just enthralled in with because even you said

1:29

the transition was like, what was the

1:32

part where you were talking about how it got to the point of like, it's so it gets to the point of it so hard, I kind of I want it to end. I want to give up i call Brandon I get in my support. And I get that, you know, reminder of why I'm doing this and that and the his answer is like well, you kind of have to keep going and

1:54

you say sometimes I feel like he's he says this But he doesn't say it like I feel like he's like what exactly do you want me to do? Like, you know, how can I support you because I can't come out and get you but he'll always just listen, and he's just like, Yeah, well, you're doing good. You've made it this far.

2:12

Something encouraging.

2:14

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the biggest thing is like he said, like you you have to intentionally plan, train, prepare, educate yourself, like build your team, build your systems around how you're going to succeed, and then adapt. If that's not birth, I don't know what is right and then pushing through pushing through something really, really, really hard. For reward reward. On the other end, I mean, yeah,

2:43

through the pain net.

2:45

Well, how about afterwards how'd you feel like day one and like, how are you feeling now? Um,

2:54

this was it. So I still go back and I'm like, maybe I didn't prepare as well as I could have. Maybe you didn't think too much about race.

3:04

Like, I don't care.

3:06

It was so hard. I've never been that sore before. I when I went to take a shower. Maybe Yeah, it was after the race and I went and I like washed my arms. I was like, I was like, wow, like I could barely touch my deltoid. Like that.

3:25

I mean, in my arms.

3:27

I was so tense. And you had to put your arms out like this for balance because it was so Rocky and you were prancing so much that it was like eight and I mean, it took me eight hours and 15 minutes it was that long of doing?

3:42

Yeah, so that's why they were super just

3:44

the honest source. I did. I didn't trip like I didn't fall foul, but I did get my foot cut under a roof actually ripped my shoe. I had to throw my shoes away because the whole side came apart. And I went kind of flying forward and I remember feeling my left shoulder catch my low back and I was like,

4:06

just from catching yourself just from like in the air catching

4:09

myself and like stabilizing. Oh, that's gonna hurt but I was like, but you didn't. You didn't fall on the ground. But the recovery that was and it lasted for a long time. And I remember so I have a manual car. And I was also had to drive through Atlanta. To get home. And it was a Monday because the race is on a Sunday. I stayed that Sunday night. I came home Monday. And I was like, I don't even know if I could push this clutch in. Oh my gosh, it was just it was the end and you're in traffic. And so it was just like go and stop and I was like, this is like another another workout. But I did have all of my you know, I brought all of my tools. I did a lot of rolling I did. I had my little micro massage and like I did things I just think it was it was that hard. You know and so when I look back on it like I know that I prepared you can I did everything ya know I could maybe should have done like more electrolytes something afterwards, you know little things like that. But it was it was just that hard.

5:16

Yeah, I think like an ice bag would have maybe helped.

5:19

Yeah, but my heart shaped tab was not working. Yeah. They did have another tab. I couldn't even I mean, I got up the steps. I was on the third floor where I was staying. I was like, I'm not. I'm not leaving. I can't go down those stairs. I was like this is today what I did is I watched Harry Potter marathons we're on and we can't watch him at the house because my kids are in the middle of reading them. So I can't watch like the older ones. So I was able to watch Harry Potter marathons and eat all of the leftovers that I had from the massive amount of things I

5:53

say When do you feel hunger after a race like that right after? Yeah, that's

5:58

food they had I had a barbecue sandwich actually, I got the sandwich and then I just sat there. I was like, I can't even eat and I picked at it. And then they had soup and the soup was really good. It was like a some sort of like stew and so you had a little cup and I would just drink the soup. And it was it I got back and like showered and like watching TV and stuff. And that's how I was like, I'm so hungry. Like I'm glad I have all of this food. But yeah, I'm a recovering that's yeah, there's been some hiccups. There's been some hiccups with it. My shoes are really really old and i i needed new ones but I just didn't get them while I was training and i think i Let's see I did start exercising again. i How long did I take off? I took 13 days after running after the race. So I didn't. I took almost like two weeks off. But I did start back with doing like weights I did want to work out the soreness because the onset muscle soreness is a thing. So I definitely had a lot of that but I think I mean I did have some you do muscle damage. When you do something that intensive and you know, takes a little bit of time for for like that healing aspect but I did like the movement in motion, but I like to run at the end of the year. I like to do like a run streak. When I take time off of the office and I can put forth that time to do I can run every day usually can't unless I take time off and so I did a run streak and I did like 11 days. And then I came back and did a little bit more and I I needed to take a longer break. So maybe I was pushing a little bit more than I needed to but so now I have been on an extended run break. It's been about 2021 days now. No 20 today because it was the January Yeah, where we're how we're recording. It's been since I've run and for someone who runs when you take that time off sometimes at my foot my foot is bothering me really really bad. I'm working on it. We're doing all the things but when you're a runner, I did I write in my journal the other day was like if I'm a runner and I'm not running Am I still a runner, but yes, yes I am. But yeah,

8:25

you ran for 30

8:27

like who you how you identify and if that is no longer there for a minute, right? It kind of throws you for a loop but this is like I don't feel like running. Like I'd be okay with this break. I did a lot of breaks. And it's felt really good to take that pause and every time I look back and I'm like how intensive it was for those 16 weeks and that race. I went from running almost 200 miles a month and I've done in January. I've turned like 23 miles. Yeah. So there's a big difference. But I've embraced working on more of my muscle imbalances working on more of my weights and yoga and spin and cross training and things that I didn't get to focus on. So I feel really good but it's very odd to be like God I haven't run in so long and I was like, I don't really miss it.

9:22

I think that's okay. I think it's okay and back to the two truths like you know, you are a runner and you can take a break and if it feels right, stay there right until it feels like it's time to go. You're so intuitive with your running. There's no way you won't know when it's time to return to it. Yeah, and I think it's important to listen

9:41

that's kind of what I've learned and and that's where to you know, we started a new year and a lot of times there's like lots of new goals and new thing right one of the things and I have felt a push to be like

9:53

will you finish the year in a way that most people don't? Yeah, right. It's like inverted in some way. So what a bit also like your goal could be a pause from running and embracing that and doing other things like that can still be a goal.

10:07

Yeah. So it's been fun kind of navigating. That and also trying I do like to say okay, what is this? What is this new ache pain hiccup thing? What is it? What are the lessons in there? What does it teach me? What can I learn? What do I do? So,

10:26

some of the lessons and all

10:28

I know but I am super proud of myself that I did it because I think it's so my award I've been the opposite. I still think it's

10:36

so funny you You're such a rockstar and just like I'm inspired by you continually just like the dedication, the commitment, the your approach to it all. It's just like a beauty to watch.

10:50

Thanks, friend that feels good. That feels it feels it feels really good. You know, because yeah, it's fun to do.

10:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, do you have any final like, thoughts or conclusions from your race that you would like to share with us before we wrap it

11:05

up? Oh, gosh. I know, you know, I know. That was a lot. I'm still processing it. I like to process the things from the races. And honestly, I guess too, it was it was kind of bigger than just a 40 mile run. You know, you see kind of and you hear all the things and the thoughts with it, you know, and the why behind it. I think sometimes it's fun to have those those races and those goals in mind and my you kind of do those things. But yeah, I don't know. I'm just kind of embracing the pause right now. But it was I mean, I'm so I'm excited that I did it. I'm proud of myself. I'm glad I did it.

11:46

I think it was fun, but it didn't really turn out exactly how I had thought it would.

11:53

But as I have gotten older and wiser I'm able to embrace that a little bit better. Because old Shannon would have been probably real upset. Just ask my mom and talk to her about my track and field days and if not come in first. Or you know those type of things. It was really rough and so I don't know why. That's an evolution

12:20

and progress. I think that's getting to being a mother because as you sonar being mature, like being flexible.