Ep 69: Benefits of Pediatric Chiropractic Care

No matter the type of birth you have, your newborn can benefit from seeing a trained chiropractor. In this episode, Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael help walk you through how the pregnancy and birth process (vaginal or cesarean) can cause subluxations in the baby’s spine which can impact how their tiny systems function and ultimately impacts how they engage with the outside world.  This episode will dive deep on the following topics:

• Our personal experiences with prenatal and pediatric chiropractic care
• How subluxations occur during pregnancy and the birth process
• Difference in “normal” newborn behavior and signs of distress
• Impact on nursing, infant feeding, digestion, sleep, and development in the first year of life
• What is involved in a pediatric newborn exam
• Common issues Dr. Shannon sees in her office for 0-6 month olds and 6-12 month olds
• Breaking down misconceptions surrounding pediatric chiropractic adjustments

It is important to seek care from a trained pediatric chiropractor.  Care plans and length of time to see results will vary for each patient based on medical history and individual needs and abilities. You can learn more and find a trained professional at ICPA4Kids.com.

Learn more about physical therapy for infants and toddlers from Brittany Ziis of Mother and Baby Wellness Collective. Follow her on Instagram or visit her website
Resources mentioned in the episode:

Dr. Shannon’s research article: Health Outcomes of Pediatric Patients Undergoin

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• 14:10 (Cont.) Ep 69: Benefits of Pediatric Chiropractic Care

Transcript

Unknown 0:00

To the aligned birth podcast, Dr. Shannon here today to the Rachel is here today, we are the hosts of the show. And today's show is all about why take your infant to a pediatric chiropractor. Why get your infant adjusted? What does it look like? Rachel came up with this idea for this episode. And so I think it's going to be fun because we're going to talk about a lot of things as it pertains to yes going into some of birth aspects of things because how the fetus is in the womb can play a big part in their outlook on life and how they are functioning in the world outside of the womb. And so sometimes, I don't think people realize that so we're gonna go into some of that aspect of like fetal development and then looking at the birth process. And then what does an infant exam look like? When you take them to the chiropractor, so what are they looking for and what are some of the common things that are coming into the office? What are some of the results that we see in the office, all kinds of good things like that? Hello, and welcome to the Allied birth podcast. We are so glad you're here. Excited to chat about this today. With you, Miss Rachel.

Unknown 1:23

Hi, Dr. Shannon. I'm so excited for this conversation as I am all of our conversations. I feel like I say that every time but it's true. This one really I was stoked about and it's something that we are seeing with our clients with our doula clients. It's coming up that's coming up prenatally like conversation about how how chiropractic care is beneficial during pregnancy and then we try and translate that into like, you know, them going postpartum for themselves but also for their baby. And like it's been we will share it with our clients like hey, like, Have you considered taking your newborn infant to see a chiropractor, if they're struggling or if they're not struggling with certain things and we'll go over some of those things in this in this conversation. I know but like, you know, if we're seeing some, you know, issues with feeding or some discomfort with their tummy or anything like that, we are kind of always first to say hey, maybe go see a chiropractor and we'll we get some hesitancy of like oh, like I didn't know that was a thing or, or they kind of envision it being a more aggressive adjustment than it is and so they're like that sort of intimidating. So I want to kind of work on dispelling some of those misconceptions and fears.

Unknown 2:37

Yes, I know and I just had a mom postpartum, she's coming in postpartum and with her little one, and she kind of said the same thing. She was like, Yeah, I was telling people I was, you know, bring in a little girl to the chiropractor, and they're like, Oh, really? Why do you think Yeah, so it's, you know, it's fun to talk about, you know, and I think that's good. So hopefully we can shed some light and open the mind a little bit on some of the things out there that chiropractic care can help with.

Unknown 3:07

Yeah, I don't think I I wouldn't have considered it had I not been under the care of a chiropractor when I was pregnant with my first ever it and and as I was coming to the end of that pregnancy with my chiropractor who you know very well thought to Pam, we all love her. You know, she's big on the family, the whole unit right? Especially once the baby's here, you know, introducing that concept and she did that so lovely and like offers you know, visits for your newborn and wants you to come in as soon as you can. And I was like, wait, I like had not even thought about it. I was like, no, no, we're just we're focused on the bait, right baby pregnancy birth. And she started to like, Okay, well think about what the baby goes through for the birth and then, you know, just like this can help them get off to a great start. And so and then seeing lots of people in that in her office, bringing in their their babies seeing it happen. I can normalize it for me, right? A desensitized it made me feel like oh, this is this can be normal and this is so beneficial for my baby. And it was so gentle. And all the things and so you know, I did I took my firstborn in and it was wonderful. It was just such a good experience. And then like we kept going and we we have haven't stopped since and then even with my second I did the same and it just became normal for us. And it was more of like that was our well visit versus like always going to the doctor.

Unknown 4:32

Yes, I know. And so I I had the same experience because Dr. Pam also was my chiropractor when I was pregnant and so, um, just that little tidbit of a backstory for those who maybe don't know or haven't listened to all the other episodes that we have, but I wasn't adjusted with my first pregnancy and so I ended up with that emergency C section. And then second time around. I did go and get adjusted but it definitely like late in the game. So it was 36 weeks pregnant. And then I was really hoping for that feedback. And it made such a difference in my labor and birth to the point where I was like, Oh, this is this is really cool. And so I continued under care with postpartum and just in what you know my chiropractor had mentioned and then I remember, I too didn't think about bringing the either kid you know, like it just does. It didn't dawn on me like I wanted to stay under care because I was feeling amazing. So I just I felt so much better. So I remember she called and was like yeah, you should bring the kids in and I was just kind of like, I mean I guess though I didn't really see that they needed you know, I was like I don't really have any issues right. And what you know what I thought that was what I thought but taking them in, you know my experience so my youngest then I don't think I brought him in until he was about two months old. And he'd kind of had suffered bouts of like constipation, or you know, they tell you that it's a pediatrician Oh, it's normal for them, you know, not to poop for a certain amount of days and things like that. But then after taking it to the chiropractor be like oh, so maybe it is normal for him to have a bowel movement every day. You know? So those type of things where you're like, Oh, I thought things were fine. But maybe noticing, oh, it could be so much better. Right? You know, I guess that was kind of the eye opening thing for me. And you'd struggled with some reflux as well. And so those things were it was my oldest though so he was three at the time. This was the biggest wow factor for us because he would get sick every winter. He would get like one of those chest colds and we would have to use a nebulizer so and it was like every time he got sick and I was just like it's you know, you feel like defeated as a parent when you struggle with some of those health issues and everything so anywho we had taken him in as well and got him adjusted and that like stop that was the only thing that we changed in his world and in his life, you know, at that time, and he has not needed nebulizer since and that and that was when my husband was like, Oh wow, this looks pretty cool. And so then he started getting into care. Their dads are always the last ones. But um, and so just seeing that so that was my experience with it as well kind of like yours where it was like, I don't know,

Unknown 7:23

yeah, yeah, it was me I was gung ho for myself. And that's, you know, and it helped me so much and I was like, gonna continue care and all of that, but I hadn't wrap my head around. I hadn't even considered that there would be something my newborn would need. I feel like I have like a lifetime of things that need to be fixed with chiropractic care from injuries to all kinds of stuff and I might, my newborn is new. They're brand new baby new, what are they hearing and learning about? How like, hey, they still have a spine and a nervous system and they still been through a lot during birth and their early days. So it's, it's still helpful and just helping lay that foundation for, you know, a good start to life and yeah, for us it you know, really helped like with congestion, like, If anytime they were congested, I would take them in and she would adjust like their sinuses and that would help them so you know, helped avoid being on needing to be on allergy meds. And just like, keeping them you know, their kids, um, this is kind of getting into more like toddlerhood and not as much newborn but as they were growing and moving and being more active and stuff it would just like, you know, they're always going to be kind of rock in their body, beating themselves up so just sort of trying to always re realign so that they can go continue to be, you know, their best and I just feel like sleep and, you know, really like we didn't struggle with ear infections and and but it's hard, because both of my kids have had chiropractic care from the very beginning. And so, you know, we didn't, I didn't struggle with breastfeeding. And not to say it was easy, but like, we didn't have any of that, like most common issues, you know, didn't have ear infections and and, I don't know, just like, No reflux, the things that I think can really help with and I don't have like the opposite, because I had the problem and then it wasn't there. But I feel like that it's anecdotal. I'm not saying it's like everyone's experience, but I can't help but feel like it made a big difference that it made that

Unknown 9:31

difference. Yeah, ah, that's so good friend. I

Unknown 9:35

love it. Yeah, yeah. And I just think people, you know, and I think this is something that you just you sort of touched on, like, it doesn't have to be an issue, like there doesn't have to be an issue for them to need to go in. Like to see a chiropractor,

Unknown 9:52

you know, and so that kind of segues me into a little bit of a thought process of that as far as when when thinking about pediatric chiropractic care and like, even when patients come in the office and like the older ones and they're in pain, I always try to kind of go over that pain model as far as like there can be issues in the body without there being pain, you know, and it leads up to that. So it's kind of like not waiting for there to be an issue to make sure that our nervous system is functioning well. And that can be kind of how you look at it with that pediatric care because I will say I see a lot with you know, in utero restraint with things so you can have that fetus positioning as far as like breech babies, you know, they sometimes they'll have a lot of hip issues because and it depends on how they are whether they're, you know, sitting crisscross applesauce or they're like, you know, kind of squished up with like the knees like right in front of the face, like the the Frank breech and that type of thing. So, all of those things, you got to think they're hanging out in the womb for that amount of time. In the certain positions. And so that can impact their spinal development and it can impact their then entrance into the world and how they function in the world outside of the womb as well. And so and that's just like one example I have. I've had quite a few moms do or even where the baby like really sits on maybe that like left hip, you know, and they're not, they just kind of position there and they stay there. And so sometimes that in utero restraint can lead to some of the beginnings of those restrictions. And motion and issues like that as well. So,

Unknown 11:44

yeah, I mean, babies in the womb for nine to 10 months, like, you know, there they go, especially if they get bigger and stuff and, you know, if it's the babies, the way they're growing inside the womb and the way they settle and like you said about that position, like as a breech, is it is there, you know, are they a little asymptotic? Is their head like tilted and stuck in that because, you know, not stuck but sort of in one position for a long time. And then maternal stress, like things that happened to the mother during pregnancy too, right. Can you tell me a little bit about that?

Unknown 12:15

Right, you know, I took a I took a class during the pandemic, and it was talking about and it was more along the lines of like maternal stress and the impact that it could have downstream because that pandemic time being pregnant during that time it was could be extremely stressful and talking about cortisol actually impacting the baby, especially at different times. So it's not like, you know, cortisol floods the placenta or anything like the whole entire pregnancy, but there are times where cortisol can impact and that's those stress hormones and that type of thing. So that there's that aspect of maternal stress. And then there's the aspect of even I think, having a lot of fear. I know I had a lot of fear in my first pregnancy. And I do think that those tendencies and whatnot can impact not only fetus, but then that can impact that birthing process. Which that can impact the fetus as well. Because sometimes I do think if we've got a lot of that fear and we're not breathing and we're not letting go and we're really tense and we're, you know, afraid of the unknown, all of those things and not to say, I mean, I hate to say like, don't be afraid, and because it's gonna you know, don't stress out because your baby is going to be stressed. Like I hate to put that out there. But just being aware of that, and then noting, okay, what can I do to calm down because that's also going to help calm the baby down and calm the fetus down as well, too. So yeah, that's that's what comes to mind when I think of like the maternal stress and the impact on the fetus and newborn.

Unknown 13:54

Yeah, and there's two things there kind of want to pull threads on and one is that that the addressing the fear component for in the maternal stress, because I feel like when we talk about stress, it's so ambiguous and it's, it's like this, I think there's a mis understanding that like, you have to be free of stress, or free of fear to be healthy. And I I want to normalize it and say that I think everyone acts experiences fear and stress to a degree. Some people experience it more significantly than others. And there's a number of factors that contribute to that and it's not always mindset and it's not always you know, exercising and breathing and doing all the like, quote unquote, right things right. We have to we have to say that everyone's environment is different, and can lead to different struggles and different paths, and then it all plays a role and stress we know stress impacts maternal outcomes, like it has an impact. The hard thing is is that we can't just say okay, be stress free. Go, go live easy, and you'll have an easy birth. It's just you know, and you can do all the right things and still have a challenging birth and, and you can have a lot of struggles and have an easy birth like it's it's so nuanced and so fluid, I just always like to kind of recenter us on this conversation. But where I was going with that is when we are experienced kind of being aware of, of the fear and tension and stress in our lives and saying, Okay, where am I feeling? Where or what are the points of stress? what's impacting that and what do I have control over and trying to have some some healthy practices to center you and help you feel better each day so like, trying to focus and center on your breath and trying to focus and center tension, you know, in small increments throughout the day to try and reset yourself because it's going to come back like day after day we all you know if there's work or there's other kids or there's marital strife or there's financial strife or there's like there's so many points of stress, that's kind of like Okay, where can I can I put down my phone to try and reduce the stress coming in or the the what you're seeing in the world? And is that impacting you? Or can I, you know, slow down my workload, or can I ask for help from loved ones or can I seek professional help? Like, what can I do here? And I think that's really important when we're talking about maternal stress to not you know, I don't know

Unknown 16:30

Yeah, like to not, I don't Yeah, not that take it personally. But like, it's, it's, it really comes down to that awareness and being like, Okay, I am stressed and like, what can I do to adapt to the stressor better, you know, and that's where I felt with my first pregnancy. Like, I wasn't adapting well, you know, yeah. That was also like, I was at a different point in my life. I feel like now as I you know, getting older, I'm able to name those thoughts and feelings and emotions and I'm able to acknowledge them and then like, not stay in that space and come up with those things like what you had mentioned as far as like, being able to adapt to it and move on from it. So, but all of that to say yes to you know, those those things can impact your pregnancy,

Unknown 17:20

right on your pregnancy and then leading into your birth process. And that's what I wanted you to expand on that was the other thread I wanted to pull out is that like, there's the maternal stress, and then how that flows into the birth process. Or it's kind of separate to like the birth process itself. So there's like the pregnancy and what we experienced during the pregnancy, how the baby grows and develops during the pregnancy, that can impact the life after the birth right and how they are functioning in the world. And then there's the birth process that has things that can occur, either major or not major that can impact how they function in the outside world. So can you share a little bit with me about those things?

Unknown 18:00

Right. So you know, I like I don't like to say that birth is traumatic, because yes, there are some very traumatic births, but there is a lot of stress and strain involved in the birthing process. So whether that was the most beautiful and wonderful waterbirth you know, no tearing like, you know, just that ideal birth that you have in your mind. There still is stress and strain with that, like your body still has a lot of physiological changes. You still gotta fit. big ol baby head out, you know? So it's, the body can do it. It's just it can be stressful and stressful. So I do like to at least acknowledge that I don't and I'm careful with the word trauma because

Unknown 18:45

well there's the like physical psychological trauma, right? There's a how we experience a situation and how what we perceive it in our brain and if it's traumatic, right, that's an emotional experience and a psychological experience, that it's very important that we protect that and that people don't suffer through their burger or we really reduced the chance of any sort of traumatic birth experience that's different than trauma to like the what the, what the spine and nervous system goes through for the baby. And that you know, what? There's like it's bound to impact the spine and the nervous system. On some level, no matter what kind of birth you have. Is that like what I'm hearing you say?

Unknown 19:29

Yes, yes. Like it's, there's layers. There's lots of layers to it. So to go over some of, I guess, like the physiological aspects of that stress and strain. But you know, I'll see stuff with you can actually have, you know, typical normal, vaginal birth and there can be change shifts in how the baby's head is positioned as it's entering and as it's the womb, so sometimes you'll have it to where it like you know, their their chin is pointing more up in the air or their chin is tucked, and that presents totally different things with that neck occiput cervical spine alignment. So that was a completely normal birth, but that can present things as well. So that's kind of like that occipital strain. That can occur with birth and then sometimes do there's something called kids so it's the kinematic imbalance due to sub occipital strain and that is definitely something that can happen with birth and it's just a crazy name for kind of what we what I had just said as far as different positionings and how the baby actually exits the birth canal. You can have I mean, a cesarean birth is going to have different sets of stress and strain and put it on to the spine. Of the baby as well too. And then also, you got to think of how long were they breech? Oh, nuts. Not, not that also Syrian versus someone with with someone that was breech, but in thinking of that as far as that there's can be some pulling on the spine as we're, you know, babies exiting from that surgical incision. So and there's just differences there as far as like, why the Cesarean birth happened as well to, you know, like, in my instance, I did push for two and a half hours but then ended up with that Cesarean birth so there's, there's just so many different aspects that can happen with that that can impact that infant spine as well, faster long labor too. I mean, it can be super fast. And you can have some sets of issues and it can be like a very long drawn out prodromal labor they're kind of like hanging out in that birth canal for an extended period of time and you'll see that in the baby like head shape. If you've seen some of those pictures where they come up with and they look like they have conehead and it's like, you know that infant molding is there for a reason to allow for that. But those are things that can kind of cause some of that stress and strain during the birth process then there's actual again I would be hasn't used the word trauma but if there were forceps used if there was a vacuum used if maybe we have some of the shoulder dystocia and just those type of things to like if the arm is coming out first, like again, lots of different birth situations that can lead to stress and strain.

Unknown 22:37

Yeah, and I think we know there are lots of babies can be born in a lot of different ways through the belly, through the vaginal opening, right come out at first but first, like you said first, like there's lots of things, lots of things and all degrees of normal and so understanding the impact that that has on the on the new baby, and how they're going to function outside of the womb. I just think it's, it's important to sort of see that as impactful. Like your birth process. It matters, how that goes and being aware. So like being aware of like, okay, what's my baby breech? And was it was the baby reach for a long time? Did I push for a long time? Was baby a son clinic was you know did they have to assist with getting the shoulders out and really pull and manipulate the baby to help the baby get out? Was there was there an instrumental delivery like in lifting these things was like Okay, did the did anything like this occur? That you can kind of note like a mental note of like, okay, that way when you for the care for your baby afterwards, even with your pediatrician, because that's important, but then, you know, seeking that infant chiropractic care and kind of having that information and it can help the chiropractor be like Okay, so now we know what to work now and kind of know their story and what happened and then we can kind of assess them and their body in a physical way. But I think understanding how they come through, and all those potential factors can help you seek and get the right kind of care, I think for your baby, afterwards.

Unknown 24:15

Yes, exactly. And, you know, just to reiterate the fact to because we've been talked about I liked I see infants because there are issues and I see infants because there aren't issues as far as what you know, the parents are seeking and thinking what's going on because no matter how the baby is born, it is that stressful and stressful process. Yes, we physiologically are made to do it and it's freaking cool and awesome. But it can impact and when I'm really looking at is it can really impact that nervous system function. So

Unknown 24:54

we I think a lot of people think if they don't, if they don't see an issue, right, there's nothing to fix. And I mean, and a lot of people might even say, Well, I never had chiropractic care, and I'm fine and it's like, Well, okay, like I grew up I didn't see chiropractic care until I was 38 weeks ago with my first child so and I mean I'm quote unquote fine. But like, that's not a good answer. It's like okay, but can we we can be we can we can do better. We could function better function better, maybe reduce stresses, stresses and tension in the body and reduce female illness down the road. So, you know, that's it's important to kind of try and be proactive. We're all about that proactive care and pregnancy and with our children and for ourselves. And I think something else I kind of wanted you to share is about like what you're looking for and your pediatric exams because what we experience as doulas, and then we're kind of trying to encourage people to take them maybe to see a chiropractor is like kind of confusion between like norm what's a normal newborn, you know, quote, unquote, issue and what's like an issue right, and I don't think a lot of people know because it all gets lumped into, oh, that they're just a newborn, right? Like, they're fussy or they're, they're grow out of it. Yeah. And it's like, it's hard to kind of identify that the issues so if you can kind of guide us through that that would be really helpful. Yeah.

Unknown 26:21

And that kind of comes down to when you hear well, just because it's common, right? Doesn't mean that it's necessarily normal, or that's like that optimal function. So I will say this with my newborn exams, I do a lot of observing. Like sometimes I'll even just have the newborn on the table and I just watch it out, even if it's just sleeping, you know, they're just they're always moving. You know, there's always a Twitch, there's always something. So I look for those things. And I'm looking for that balance and that symmetry and a lot of times what I'm doing is that when I have the input on the table like that, I'm talking this out with the parents and I'm kind of saying okay, I am looking for these things because what I want them to do too is to go home and be like okay, I can look for these things too. I can see these patterns What can I do to help my kiddos nervous system function well to obviously outside of like actually adjusting but you know, just noticing those things. So it is a lot of observing and seeing what some of those tendencies are. I asked a lot of questions as well, too. Obviously, birth history is a really, really big one. So because I do like to get an idea of how were they in utero. And and just kind of gleaning things from the parents too as far as like those stress levels like sometimes that will come out in in the that infant exam too. And so that kind of gives some insight into you know, was mom stressed during pregnancy you know, she working a ton or and those types of things. But I'm looking for like if we are well even if we're bottle feeding like it for nursing, or bottle feeding, it still wants to know you know, how is that going? How is the latch? Is there pain, you know? And that's even like lip blisters with nursing clicking sounds with nursing and I'll even I totally love it when mom's nurse in the office as well to or even if they bottle feed because I can see some things then as well. But I you know, I there's issues with pacifiers people don't necessarily like I like them sometimes too, because then I can kind of feel those muscle and then I'm like, okay, is this jaw alive? Is it moving? Well, like you know, all of those amazing things that we can just observed that as well, like, also, I'll hear sometimes, you know, do they are July Are they really? Like do they have tension, sometimes they come out and they're just so tense. I have some where they're like their little fist. They're just so tense all the time. And that can just be a little bit of that. That nervous system over activity and that strain, you know, the head control or you know how and granted this is, golly, you know, you see I can see infants as soon as they're born or they're coming in two months and that

Unknown 29:03

they're things look different answers. are different. Yeah. And there's so much

Unknown 29:07

growth that happens in those first little bit. That's why I do like to see them

Unknown 29:10

as early as possible, but um

Unknown 0:09

Those first little bit that's why Would you like to see them as early as possible but um you know sleeping patterns sleep you know

Unknown 0:19

I'm sorry, what's your sleeping pattern?

Unknown 0:20

And I don't know exactly, you know, like, what is the sleeping better? But I do like, you know, are they getting rest? Are the parents

Unknown 0:29

having like a 24 hour period? That's exactly try and focus like, how many hours in a 24 hour window? Is your baby sleeping? And so that's helpful? Are they? Can they get a one to two hour stretch? Are they only sleeping in like 30 minutes?

Unknown 0:42

Right? Those are things where it is it is it stress, you know, are they fussy and crying, not falling asleep at you know, all of those things that we'll go over in the exam. And this is, you know, obviously just touching on the surface of things. But another big one, too, is the bowel movements. I want to make sure I do personally think they used to be having a bowel movement every day. And I love when I hit the babies that are having multiple bowel movements. But you know, is there constipation? Is it really runny? There's obviously differences between Versa babies and formula fed babies as far as the consistency of the bowel movement, but I do want to check in and know how is the bowel functioning? And are they fussy with it? And you know, asking about reflux and spit up and is there a lot of spit up? Are they like just little goldfish and they ate too much or is it actually digested and like that's got like the curd feel to it. And you know, all of those things, and they don't have to have any, any issues in those areas. But these are the things that I'm asking and like are we beginning tummy time? Are we laying on the chest again to age appropriate here, but I'm just thinking of that like newborn? What Do as well because I have a lot of parents that will have babies asleep on their chest and so I want to know how is that how's that going so that's just some of the questions that we go over in the office

Unknown 2:10

yeah I think the nursing wealth thing comes up a lot not with us because we see our clients at postpartum and they'll it's up they'll always say like one side they be really good on the other side they just don't like that side or they just don't feed as well on that side and they don't connect. They don't always it's no judgement at all. But they don't connect that the how the baby feels comfort wise on that side might impact how they're feeling on that side, it's not necessarily the boob, or the milk on that side, or you, it's that they're, if they're tight on one side, turning their head to that side is going to be more uncomfortable, and they're going to not feed as well on that side. So when you're thinking, even if you're again dealing with a bottle, and you hold them a certain way, or you switch arms because you get tired and they take it good on one side, they don't take you down as is because we're looking up at you are turning to that side might hurt because they haven't said what a tiny subluxation somewhere in there. It can be so subtle, or if they're always like, if you're putting them down to zip and they're always turning their head to one side, versus like kind of always turning their head for them to help them kind of balance out their neck. It's like okay, well, they might be tight on one side and chiropractic care can help with that.

Unknown 3:20

Yes, ma'am. I know. Yep. All those nursing things. And yeah, I have a lot of moms a little bit. Oh, well, it's just the slacker boob side. They just don't like that side, because it's sucker boobs. That can be part of the issue. But there can't be more to it. You know, it could actually be that, like what you've said, is really restricted in motion, turning towards one side. So it's definitely something worth checking out, though. Yeah. So can

Unknown 3:45

you walk us through a little bit of the exam?

Unknown 3:49

Yeah. So to kind of go back to you know, the, that health history aspect of things and like observing things and then talking to the parents, then it's really looking and coming in and doing the exam with actually touching the bed. via palpating and motioning things and getting a read on the body and seeing where do I have restrictions, because I'll be doing a lot of like, okay, I want them to try to, I want them to actively turn their head to both sides, you know, and I want it to be completely unrestricted. That's what I'm looking for. That's a big one. You get all of your flexion extension rotation in like the top two bones in the neck. So C one and c two and that's for adults as well to the rest of the spine is there to just support the head, but that's where all of that motion is. And so, if we, you know, looking in those areas, I can see if we've got issues and maybe restrictions in In those top two bones in the neck and that can restrict that motion as well I'm looking at and I'm feeling that jaw tension like I said I've even adjusted them while they're nursing which is wonderful because then I can actually you can really feel some of those muscles release As well um I'm looking for sacral and bounced like do a butt cheek check and so I'm looking to see is that butt cheek like even you know when you squeeze little cheeks together that little circle crease is it even does it veer off to one side I this is a little bit into that connection of sacrum and occiput and cranial sacral therapy as well too and everything is connected in the spine so if we've got tension in To the occiput tension in the skull tension in the upper spine, we can also have tension down into the sacrum and pelvis as well. And so it's important to kind of check, it's like a full spine check what we say with with the baby as well, two leg creases, you know, are they even? And are they staying even is one deeper than the other that can give insight into how the pelvis is, and it's, you know, it's, I'm checking all of these things, whether the, whether the infant's coming in with, like, a set issue, or no issue is all mom just wants baby checked, right? So kind of going back to that too. And it's, there's not certain things so subluxations can, they can give you different manifestations and people so just because I'm seeing, you know, a sacral imbalance and this infant, it doesn't mean that, that this is directly related to bowel movement issues like that everything in the spine is connected, everything in the body is connected there. So it could even be the sacral tension is actually causing issues with nursing. Like, it's, you know, it's that's where I think sometimes it can get kind of confusing with with parents too. It's like, well, you know, if I'm only having issues here, why are we adjusting the rest of the spine to I have to deal with that with my adult patients as well, that connected connected one

Unknown 6:51

and usually, if you're experiencing something in one place, it's from somewhere else, so you want to assess every time someone might come in for the obvious thing, like help with their Ada, they're not nursing Well, or they have obvious torticollis which I'm gonna ask you about next but so you can explain that but you know, and then you and then they learned that, that that something else was out and now they have improved bowel movements or something like you go in for one thing and then adjust the whole body and now you have improved other things.

Unknown 7:20

Well, and that's probably something I was gonna say at some point in this too, because I, you know, I tell my parents that like, yes, if you are coming in for this specific reason, I do so desperately want that to be resolved. You know, whatever that is. But again, I'm adjusting the entire spine. I'm adjusting where we have no Have a system irritation where the subluxations are. And it's a more of like I'm facilitating the healing. The baby's doing all the work I've read that comes in and gets adjusted. Their bodies are doing all of the work. I am merely just facilitating that healing process. And so it's kind of like I want those things to go away but sometimes the bad He has a way of unwinding and correcting those subluxations in a different pattern so sometimes the latch is still an issue but now we've had regular bowel movements every day instead of going nine days without one like that you know and so I always like to check in and say okay now let's be aware of some of the other things yeah

Unknown 8:25

what else what

Unknown 8:28

exactly but that is just something to be aware of I'm so glad that's my word of the year

Unknown 8:34

awareness awareness because it's so applicable I love it when we're talking about newborns To like six months old What do you see regularly in your office

Unknown 8:47

um and it's kind of like comes in waves so I um let me let's start with torticollis and that is tip now there's there's going to be levels and degrees of this because you can have infants come in and they literally can like they'll turn to the right and they don't like to turn To the left so that can be that neck restriction and you have Have some aspects where that year versus say that right years towards that right shoulder and then their chin is off towards the left that is a Typical torticollis presentation where you have an ear towards the shoulder and a chin going in in the opposite direction law Lots of things at play there though and And so there's muscle involvement typically with that and you got to think what are the muscles attached to that are attached to the how to structure the spine and it's those that's predominately those top two bones in the neck You're looking at so that's even tight trapezius muscles that's shoulder immobility a lot of times I'm looking at shoulder aspects of things with those kiddos But it's that sternocleidomastoid muscle that SCM muscle that can also play apart too and so if we Got those restrictions potentially in those top two bones in the neck that is also a big key player in that torticollis. Now, the issues with torticollis is that, you know, if you're right yours towards your right shoulder and your chins towards the left, like what's going on with the right side of your world, you know, you're not, there's a lot and I tell my pants on like, there's a whole world over here that I want them to see. I want them to use that right arm, you know. And so when you got to think of those downstream things, then sometimes what happens after that as you get a little bit of plagiocephaly, because if that's where you've got a flattening of the skull at certain parts, so you can have it straight in the back, you can have it on one side. I mean, there's, again, lots of different levels with plagiocephaly. That's another thing that comes in, but it's very connected to torticollis as well. So that would be that's a big one that's been coming in lately. And I will say this, I have some infants where I've had to where it's not full blown torticollis like it doesn't necessarily have that ear to shoulder aspect, but we do we are favoring one side, you know, they are really favoring looking to the right and they're not looking to the left. But the same muscles can be involved, the same subluxations can be involved. It's just a different presentation for that baby. But I want them to have that balance and symmetry because we need to use the right and the left side of her body evenly so that's I think that's a big one that's been coming in lately and sometimes that can also impact nursing so nursing issues is another one and there's lots of different oh gosh there's lots of different things with nursing because you can have actual latch issues, you can have ties, there can be actual jaw tension, and jaw malfunctions and opposition's there. And then I typically see that related the all of those together too. So torticollis, but just hopefully, sometimes there are some issues, and then the constipation that can come with it too, and not necessarily constipation. Like, it's just that lack of bowel movements, because even some infants won't. The they won't have a bowel movement for nine days, but when they do they actually have a smooth move, it doesn't necessarily have to be constipation with that, but it's that lack of regularity in the bowel movements and eliminating waste from the body. So nobody should be going nine days without a bowel movement. That's fine. And so if you're usually going

Unknown 12:36

to be pretty upset, yeah, like that long,

Unknown 12:40

yeah, then they're kind of super fussy there. So it's not to say that, like they'll have all of those that I see all of those issues together. But there are tendencies of, okay, if we have this, it can lead to this or it's sometimes associated with this, you know, especially because you can have plagiocephaly you can have a flattening of the head and have complete and fine range of motion in the neck. Good stuff, you know, like you can have that.

Unknown 13:07

Yeah, combination of things. But then also like the cascade of events, like one thing can lead to other things. So when you kind of work it out, they sort of unwrap, unwind and and each subsequent thing improves. Do you see a lot of reflex

Unknown 13:21

I do and that is also it's typically with other with other things and It's it's a new way of kind of like with nursing issues as well so I'll see that there either because sometimes it can be related to latch issues You know if we're about you swallow too much here we don't have a really good luck Ouch and that sort of thing so Oh that's another you know that's another one that can come in by itself or on So I will say in this this age I don't see a lot of the air in fact shins it's not it's when they're older you know like six months and up This is when I typically see more of the Ear infections but again then too I'm thinking okay maybe we had some issue Use and subluxations earlier in life right and they maybe weren't necessarily addressed there but That's another thing that comes in the office I guess that sorry I'm like segwaying into that no you're gonna go

Unknown 14:29

yeah that was my next Question was older older babies six to 12 month range What you start seeing as they kind of grow and change

Unknown 14:39

right so that can be sometimes like I said Those ear infections which again I'm really checking those those top two bones in the neck I have some if we're all Learning to walk and there are about a lot of toe walking that's in there They're thing and then we're really looking at that sacral Balance pelvic balance and making sure pelvis In sacrum our alligned M And again to you know I've seen a lot adults that to walk um The feet are so have so much sensory information that just floods the Brain and it's so important um I love kids to go barefoot as much as possible, because that really feeds the brain. And so if we're only walking on our toes, that can impact that sensory aspect of our world as well too. And that can sometimes be related to bedwetting as well, too, because I'm also looking at that pelvis and sacral alignment. Again, to like, and I had said earlier, it's not only focusing on those areas, it's looking at that full spine. But when I do have, you know, parents that reach out and want a little bit more information about what care would look like I do try to say, okay, yeah, we're gonna be checking pelvis and sacral alignment, even constipation in in, especially as you start with solids, and introducing solid foods. So sometimes that plays a part, but then you can maybe potentially see some like food allergies coming out too, which is always that's always fun. But as my as the infant exam progresses, as the baby gets older, it i The next thing that I really look to observe, is those developmental milestones, and are we hitting them within a good range? And are we hitting them in a certain order? Because that can really impact brain function. And then, as baby gets older, even into like toddlerhood school function and those higher cognitive level thinking skills, I guess, should we go into primitive reflexes? Do you want to you want me to share I love it, because so I do. I like to do primitive reflex testing with all of my infants I do with pretty much every kid that comes in the office as well, too. So when the baby is born, there's certain reflexes that they have, it's kind of coming from the brainstem, and it's just like survival mode. And so that's like the rooting reflex, you stroke the cheek, the mouth should open the head should turn it should help them prepare to nurse, you touch the palm, and they get that palm or grasp, they grab something really, really, you know, I've seen babies that grab your hair, you know, it's that palmar reflex. A lot of times you're like, Oh, my kid loves this Johnny jumper. Well, that's actually just a reflex in the foot. I hate to tell you, it's so cute. But you know, when they jump and they push off, those are different reflexes that the brain has, as far as just functioning for the infant. And as the infant gets older, we get that frontal lobe development now I'm even thinking even older into that school. We'll age, those reflexes should be turned off and they all there's a ton of them and they all get turned off at different time sets and that is really governed by have we done these developmental milestones you know, like tummy time is so important then learning to roll. And if you've got torticollis and we're only focusing on one side of our world, then we only roll to one inside you're missing this whole other side. And so this is where that cascade can come from. So, with those primitive reflexes though, sometimes those the those reflexes don't get shut off in that certain order. And so sometimes they can be there and they're kind of retained and so I check my older kids for that too, to see are they obtained and Are there exercises we can do to help those go away and then it's like the brain and the body doesn't have to spend so much extra energy in The man Doing those reflexes anymore because now we don't need them and like I said they stick around for a variety of different reasons but that's something that I'm looking for so I want us to make sure these reflexes go away with My infants at a certain time and then with the older ones I'm saying okay Are they still there so that and that can be related to W sitting me I'm sorry we're sorry I'm trying to focus on the infant My brain keeps going like oh but this is what it could be like downstroke

Unknown 19:13

you say downstream Sure And so something I Want to ask you is do you recommend like when Because how we've touched on a couple times that how important like if you can identify The issues like okay they have tightness in their neck or torticollis or tension in the jaw like the activities they can do at home with the baby He to help help it sounds like those therapy right like it's almost like physical But it's recommended by for everybody that tummy time and not just tummy time but it's like having them lay on their bill And then bringing objects to both sides of their heads so they're turning their head from side to side and doing and certain things that really engaged the whole experience so they're seeing that like you said the whole right side of their body The whole left side of the of their body I know there are some great people out there who offer or even though like kind of play time therapy type of information do you help them with that or point them in that direction kind of beyond above and beyond just tummy time

Unknown 20:13

yes no because we'll go over those tummy time progressions and how to Do it what to look for when Because even with tummy time it doesn't have to be where They are pushed up on hands and they're just happy as a clam for Two hours you know that's not me time sometimes really ticked off with talking about you

Unknown 20:35

Yeah increments it's short increments if

Unknown 20:37

you know learn kind of stay as long but tummy time can be beautiful at the beginning And when you are there and supportive and observing obviously not leaving the infant but when they can just rest their cheek down You know and just completely rest their head because that's what I noticed in my in some of my kiddos is They'll rest that left sheet down and then they come up and they can't rest that right went all the way down so then we've got that restriction there so that's even something beyond that still counts as tummy time they're laying there because they are working on those that cervical muscles that's how some that's how the curves in the spine actually come about is from doing tummy time lifting the head, then getting up onto all fours and crawling and sitting. And walking. That's how all of these, the curves in the spine come about is through tummy time. And those curves and the spine, allow for that proper nervous system signal coming from the brain to the body and the body to the brain. And so those, those curves are important. So that's a big one time but yeah, so I'm gonna I'm looking at them and saying, okay, yes, let's put things over here on this side of the world, and so that they can look to both sides. And, and that's part I. So I give my patients my parents homework on their homework is typically like those type of things. Like, let's be aware of some of these things. So you know, what are you noticing, I see a lot of times the head tilt and car seats, and yes, there's a degree of, you know, they're sleeping. So obviously, their heads just going to tilt, but I want their head to tilt to both sides. I want him to sleep one day and it goes to the left, I want him to see the next day it goes to the right, instead of it's like, oh, no, it's always this side this way, you know,

Unknown 22:19

and then some ways they can kind of help.

Unknown 22:22

And I, you know, I give them exercises to do as well, you know, and I'm referring when necessary to I'm really closely with some pediatric physical therapist, occupational therapist, I work really closely with lactation consultants. And so they're giving exercise as well, too. I like to know what they're giving because then I can say, okay, yes, keep doing this or and I communicate with them. But yeah, there's little stretches and things that I'll have the parents do at home as well. And it's nothing, you know, crazy. It's kind of like, hey, continue to play with your baby and just notice these things.

Unknown 22:58

Right? Well, yeah, just again, bringing awareness and bringing like, and it's like things they're already doing, but maybe doing them slightly differently or adding in one or two things. It doesn't have to be overwhelming and it's always like probably do what you can And that's what you got and just general awareness like we were like just they don't even know like, you know, you're just told by your pediatrician to do tummy time starting at a certain age and going for a certain amount of time and it's very just like rigid versus being kind of fluid and like, okay, are building upon it kind of like what else can you do and it's also playing and engaging with your child, which is also fun.

Unknown 23:31

I know I had a parent recently. He asked, and it was kind of what could they do at home? To help? How did he put it, it was so it was so cool to help their nervous system because I had this little baby had a pretty stressful birth it was it was it was pretty stressful, it was stressful for mom too. So she acknowledges that and is aware of and she's like, Okay, I'm gonna do what I can to help me and to help, you know, my baby and the data set. And in my head, I was like, well short of adjusting, and I was like, I don't know, just love on him and cuddle him. Like, that's the best, you know, that's a big thing that you can do at home is all of that interaction stuff. I mean, you know, I don't have to tell people like love on their babies. But I just thought that was a really sweet question.

Unknown 24:17

Well, yeah, because you, you know, you're getting the adjustment that's one of is a piece of helping calm down the nervous system. But like, in my mind, it's, you know, maybe getting in a bath with them. And, you know, talking with them and time. bonding time. Yeah. You know, going slow, taking it easy, just hanging out. Holding, I mean, I think a lot of times they they just want, obviously want to be held and want to feel you nearby and hear your voice. So singing for them talking to them. And Washington repeat.

Unknown 24:50

Exactly, exactly. Now, I will say this, what the adjustments. I don't even know if I've talked about this, like what they they look like, but it's not these gross movements of the spine, because I do like to tell my patients that like it looks like I'm not really doing anything. But I promise we're impacting nervous system, but I'm usually using my fingertips, especially if I'm looking at those top two bones in the neck. And I'm when I'm doing cranial work. It's literally just fingertips touching and feeling and facilitating the motion that the body already wants to do. And it's just facilitating that motion there. So it's very gentle touches, but they're very specific as well.

Unknown 25:34

See, I love that and I think that's really important for people to understand is because again, in my experience, when we're talking to people who haven't taken their newborn to a chiropractor before they're a little bit scared of like, oh, and you know, if they're only envisioning like the neck adjustment at for an adult, right, like, yeah, Like, that's not that's not what they do. That's not what they do. It's so gentle. And it's actually it's so calming for everybody. It's just such a wonderful experience. I just want everyone to have it again. I wish it was more like that standard of care. Like you like everyone. Yeah, easy addition, I do so wish it was due to because it's just a wonderful experience. And again, it opens the door for conversations and resources and other things that you help, like, I know you help your patients with it's so much more than just go in and get your baby fixed. It's just Yeah. It's really the endocrine system function.

Unknown 26:22

You know, like I love Oh, yeah, you got your height, check your weight. EQ you know baby's going good blah blah how how's that nervous nervous

Unknown 26:28

system

Unknown 26:29

it's so important that's how we function and see the process the world you know is through the nervous system so I definitely think that's important and I I do want to address you know the Ask back to well I went to the car but I took my kids in the rector once and it didn't it didn't help and so

Unknown 26:48

I came here or we're going to write them all

Unknown 26:50

if we write them I know and they're There's an element of time to healing and you know sometimes that element of time is a lot longer and my older patients but just because it's an infant doesn't mean that in one or two adjustments everything's fine sometimes times I will definitely notice oh my gosh immediately they're able to turn their head to the left you know like it's It's amazing to see that in the office but that's not always the case sometimes it does take a little bit Get more a little bit extra. And like I said earlier to, you know, yeah, I really want that rotation to get good. But the body's like, well, you know what, we're gonna work on bowel function first and we're, that's gonna get fixed because the nervous system is functioning better. And then you know, the rest of it kind of unfolds.

Unknown 27:35

Yes, I think that's really important to that, that healthy expectation about what to what you can anticipate. It's not a one and done, but nothing is like nothing is. So you know, that, that approach that kind of long game approach, and that that, well, I'm gonna, you know, the well visit, like the maintenance, I want to be part of my routine care as long as I can, and wherever I can put it in. So I think that's really important for people to think about and understand that way. It's, again, it's a healthy, rational expectation.

Unknown 28:04

Yes, and I want to mention, okay, so I do, I have, I have people that reach out and that are very skeptical with pediatric chiropractic care, and so I totally get it. And I sometimes will be asked for resources, you know, do you have research articles? And do you have information that I can send it so I like to give them you know, testimonials from the office as far as this is? Some of the results that I'm seeing, but then there are there are research studies out there as well too, so I will send them those. There's some wonderful case studies, looking at things as far as that infinite current practic care goes as well so I do like to send you know parents and those those research articles there you know but not everybody you know once those but I do send them but I was able to I do have a published article that's about pediatric chiropractic care and I actually wrote it with Dr Pamela stone so she's She was my chiropractor I was pregnant she's your chiropractor and And that one was an interesting one because I used data from Dr Pam's office so I wrote this when I was in school It's retrospective hell outcomes of pediatric patients undergoing chiropractic care since birth but it's a retrospective analysis so what we did is we compared she had several families where one kid had been adjusted since birth and the

Unknown 0:00

The other one had not. And it was looking at the health differences within the families of those kids. And it was a lot of times and there were some things where, you know, like same activity, same sports, same status, you know, health status of things, but a big aspect that we noted was that quality that increase in that quality of life, you know, because the decrease in sicknesses and that type of thing because the immune system is directly related to the nervous system. They're always in communication with each other. And so that was just one of the fun little Yeah, one of the fun little research articles. So

Unknown 0:39

well, that's incredibly impressive. And I think that just drives home to you know, get your newborn started on some chiropractic care and and yeah, whether there's problems or not, whether there's problems or not, it can benefit them for a lifetime to come. Now, one thing that I do

Unknown 0:54

want to add and say, and it's kind of similar to when we're looking at prenatal chiropractic care, sorry, finding someone who is certified and trained to work with prenatal patients. So that would be that Webster certification that Webster training, it's the same with our pediatric population as well too. So you do want to find a chiropractor that does have extra training and knowledge and working with the pediatric population. And so the international chiropractic Pediatric Association, I've talked about them a lot. On this podcast and they host the Webster training but they also do a ton of pediatric training. And so they have certification programs, they have diploma programs, there's there's lots of levels and degree of knowledge there so they even have the website where you can search for a chiropractor in your area with Webster training with pediatric training. And there's other trainings out there as well too. So and I've had families you know, reach out to me the parents see a different chiropractor, but they want to start coming because that chiropractor doesn't necessarily work with children and I love when chiropractors are honest about those things like you know what, I don't specialize in working with kids. So I refer to someone else,

Unknown 2:09

you know, I don't necessarily specialize in working with car accident cases and that type of thing. And so I have that referral source for those people that need that. So it's the same with the pediatric population. So I do want to make sure that people are researching reach out to the doctor ask them you know, their comfort level check with you know, referrals of people in your area and friend base, but I'll also put the link to the icpa in our show notes as well.

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