Ep 56: Who to Invite Into Your Birth Space

Dr. Shannon and Doula Rachael talk a lot about creating your birth support team and finding those team members who listen to you, support you, respect you and encourage you to be the decision maker when it comes to your birth.  The same goes for who to invite into your birth space. 

Why does this matter?  Birth flows when we feel safe, comfortable, and private and it slows when we feel stressed, fearful, and exposed. In this episode, they discuss 6 key questions to ask yourself when deciding who to allow or not allow into this sacred space.  Because it’s not only how we give birth that matters, but how we feel about the birth experience that matters as well, and who is invited into that birth space can impact our emotions surrounding birth.  

This podcast was created from a desire to share conversations and interviews about topics from pregnancy and birth to motherhood and the importance of a healthy body and mind through it all.  Our goal is to bring you fun, interesting, and helpful conversations that excite you and make you want to learn more.

We hope what we share will make an impact and help someone else along their journey.

We believe that when you are aligned in body, mind, and your intuition, you can conquer anything!

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Disclaimer:

The information shared, obtained, and discussed in this podcast is not intended as medical advice and should not be relied upon as a substitute for

Transcript

0:04

You are listening to the aligned birth podcast. Today's birth the conversation is going to be all about who to invite, or more importantly, not to invite into your birth space. And so doula Rachel and Dr. Shannon are going to be talking about this. This is this is super important and it's becoming more it needs to be addressed in society now. And so we've got something that we're going to discuss why it's coming up again, but why does it matter who you're going to have in your space or again, not have in your space and so, birth is a very vulnerable time. It's a very intimate time. And if you've got people up in your space that do not bring comfort and peace, and you don't feel that with and it can impact your birth. I mean, yeah, we talk about all of these other all these other episodes that we've had of you know, like, what to eat and what to pack in your hospital bag and where you're going to give birth and that sort of thing. And all of those things it can come down to as well as how do you feel, and really looking at how you feel about birth and who do you feel comfortable with? And that's a huge part of it. And even to and like looking at who your care providers are. I mean, it all comes down to listening to that gut and trusting that and so that's why we're talking about this because when you do feel safe and comfortable, birth can flow a lot better. And so I'm really excited to talk to Rachel about this today, because we were just chatting a minute ago. And I mean, like we had our outline and now I've written like, you know, 18 other things were like, oh, yeah, this Oh yeah, you don't want these people there. You want this like it's gonna be weird. So hey, Rachel.

1:49

Hi, Dr. Shannon. Yeah, so this has been a topic that has shifted for us in the past few years, or I will say the past two years because due to COVID. There were a lot of restrictions on visitors implemented in the in hospitals and birth centers. And these restrictions vary greatly. But most and the best case scenario you could have your doula and your partner or like birth support person, maybe your it was your mom or your sister you can have like one birth support person, for most people that we attended birth for was their spouse, and then your doula, but a lot of hospital said no, Daman, doulas, and so you could just have your birth support person there and that was it. But now thankfully we are moving out of that era and into more like visitors allowed in the hospital saying okay, you can have your doula, your spouse and then to other people of your choice. And so for some, that is great, but for other people, they're like, Darn it.

3:04

I really all I got to tell this person

3:07

because I think people literally in my experience, I would say most of our clients were relieved by the restrictions of visitors. They wanted their partner and doula like they didn't want that many change, but they weren't relieved that they could kind of just blanket tell their family and friends that no visitor No Visitors are allowed in the labor and delivery or postpartum. Y'all can come see us at home.

3:37

I would say to the majority of my moms, there was like a collective relief. Yeah, however, yes, they wanted that dual on support person there, right. Like the difference is Yeah, different but yeah, but yeah, I will say there was that collective relief.

3:52

Yes. Yeah. And they were just like, you know, they didn't the pressure was off, the stress was off. So let's say you've got a couple in laws or grandparents or sisters or or, I mean, it's endless, that want to be in the space and you're maybe a people pleaser or something and you find it hard to set those boundaries or you're not really sure. This sort of took that pressure off and was like, nope, and so you didn't even have to worry and you could blame it on the hospital.

4:21

Directly. You didn't even have you could avoid the conversation.

4:24

Yeah. And And what's interesting about that, is that it just kind of showed, if we had our druthers, then we would probably most likely choose to keep visitors at a minimum. But because of societal pressures, family culture, family pressures, it's like this expectation that they are going to get to be there and so you've got kind of brings a degree of stress for some people now you might be the kind of person who's like, party time, bring everybody I feel my best. When I have all my people in my space. I don't mind it. They don't stress me out. Yes, yes, yes. In fact, you

4:59

give it to the birth who was

5:02

awesome. Like this is not to say you shouldn't feel that way. So I think it's just being aware of how your circle of people make you feel and how you know who you want to have in your space based on how they make you feel and the goal of this conversation is to encourage thoughtful consideration and intentional decision making when allowing people into your birth space. Who are you're obviously you have your you have your care provider and your partner and your doula like your nurse like hospital staff, like some of that, like, especially if you're giving birth outside of the home like that's a given, but it's like Who else are you going to invite in to your airspace. And so today we're gonna talk about like, the, the things you might want to consider, like the questions you might want to ask yourself and the people who might want to be there. So that you can only bring people in who helped you feel safe, comfortable, and private, and who don't make you feel stressed, fearful or too exposed. like who are you most comfortable with? Being really exposed? With? And I'd say that's kind of a small list for

6:23

a small list. And when I see and we say those words, that stress, fear, you know, that's fight or flight that puts us in sympathetic mode. Right? Yeah. Then as opposed to peace, calm, that's rest and digest. That's that parasympathetic mode. They've got that delicate balance there between those parts of the nervous system to give her that's like, you know, like, Why do like cats go in the closet, you know? Or like, or something like they're like, leave me alone. And sometimes I feel bad for the animals at the zoo, you know, where they're like, everybody's coming in and poke and prod and like, all these cameras move that draft. Yeah, it's just a rough birth, you know, but I mean, I do want to see that's really cool, but also too, it's like looking at that innate. And you may be someone that is very extrovert and then during your pregnancy, you might be like, oh, man, that my innate is telling me go inward. Seek this and so people might be like, Oh, well, you're like the life of the party. Why do you have all these people like it can be

7:29

Yeah, that's not a guarantee of how you'll be during labor. Like something silly that I've heard. And I even wrote down here is that, like, if you wouldn't have them present during sex, then maybe they shouldn't be present during labor. So similar hormones are flowing, and they need similar connection and privacy to flow smoothly. So it's like, you know, I mean, that might feel a bit extreme. You're like, well, I have my doctor there and I wouldn't have my doctor there during sex or even a doula like a doula is not there during sex, either, but you you will hopefully feel comfortable enough with them. You know, you're going to be at your most vulnerable. Yeah, so it's just a little bit that's a little extreme, but also, it's just a frame it of like, we want to set the environment in a way that helps birth flow, not slow or stall. And so birth flows again, when we feel safe, comfortable and private, again, that you described it so beautifully a moment ago, like the how our nervous system reacts and responds, and when we have high levels of cortisol that interferes with oxytocin and oxytocin is our love hormone and our connection hormone. It also is what facilitates contractions. And so if we have high levels of cortisol, then that's going to slow or stall labor because it's going to oxytocin is, it kind of sends a signal to the brain of like, okay, I don't feel really safe here. I'm not sure this is the place I need to get birth. So let's slow this thing down. And that usually happens in the earlier parts of labor. And so who you're around with who you're talking with during labor, who's in your space, who's bringing in fear who's what and, you know, whatever they're bringing into the space is going to impact you. And so we want to encourage you to think about this and we're gonna go over some questions things to consider and we know this is not easy, like we know like, you want to, might be hard to sort of set these boundaries because you don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings. And we totally understand that and this is all about just exploring yourself, having conversations with the people who are who you might want to have in that space early and often so if you need to work through some complicated feelings or work through some things, you'd have some time to do that. And we really want to focus on doing things compassionately and respectfully and so you might have the perception of like, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but, you know, hopefully, you can realize that when you lead with love and compassion, and looking out for yourself that your loved ones will understand, like, they will listen to you. And if they don't, that's maybe a sign or right.

10:01

That's for another podcast. But what we don't go into that, you know, how you give birth matters, but how you feel about how you give birth matters. And that's why we're gonna have these questions because you know, who you are surrounded with can impact those thoughts and feelings and emotions. So I would recommend, you know, like grabbing pen and paper and just kind of jotting these down and if yes, people in your life where you're like and that way you can go through and say maybe like, nope, nope or Yes, yes. And that way, maybe that helps you like a pro and con list. I'm a big fan of those. Sure. How do I trust that gut reaction, that first thing don't go like? I don't know. Like, what is that snap response? You know, when you're thinking about that person? So

10:49

yeah, and maybe there's a person who when you go through this process, you realize that you could really benefit from having them present like that's a good thing. Maybe this process, you know, uncovers the right person the exact right person outside of your doula and partner who should be there. Who are who's really going to bring the right energy and support so that's also a prayer. This isn't just that you should do this so that you eliminate everyone. It's like, ideally, you're bringing to the surface. Yeah, you're like no one, the right and maybe that's it, maybe it becomes down but also it unfolds like just the right person, when you really tap into these things. So the first thing we want to ask is for you to visualize your birth, the space, the lighting, the energy, and then Who do you see surrounding you like who's the first people that come to your mind? And that's that sort of like first reaction and I want you to write those names down. And it's really important to try and visualize your birth and visualize it where how you feel like you feel safe. Most people if you ask them, How do you want to feel during birth right? Safe? happy, comfortable at ease. Yeah,

12:01

and like I wouldn't even say right now just like sit in a nice comfortable spot and like, close your eyes and listen to this and think like, who literally comes to mind use this as like a little visualization?

12:13

Yeah, who do you see there and start there? And who, who are you considering to have present during your live members? So you, you may have this list now. So the questions you want to ask of those people on that list is, do you trust them? Right. I'm going to back up a little bit. So let's just say you visualize your birth and those first people that came to your mind you wrote down, I then want you to add to that list, who has the expectation that there they get to be in your birth space? Like who outside of the people that first came to mind? Who else is like thinking like thinks they're gonna be who thinks they're gonna be there or that you feel pressure that you feel obligated or committed to have? They're so because

12:58

now you didn't visualize them? Right? So you had to deal with that.

13:03

Right? Right. So then I want you to ask like, Okay, do you trust them? Right, and that might be a hard, hard thing to sit with. So do you trust them? Do they trust to you? Right? That's a big one. Do they trust your decisions? Your independence, your autonomy? Is this person someone who when you share about your birth preferences, they have an opinion or think you should do something differently? Or are they like, are they supporting you in your they trust you as the decision maker for your birth in your baby, right? That that's the kind of person you want in your space? How do they make you feel? Do they make you feel truly safe and and judged? Again, when you're having conversations with them about your birth preferences, which if they're on your list as a potential to be in the birth space, you probably should be talking to them about your birth preferences. Are you planning on going unmedicated? Are you planning on getting an epidural? Are you working at home are you birthing at a birth center? Like when you share your birth preferences with them? Do they make you feel safe and then judged about those choices? Yeah, yeah. And how do you feel when you're around them simply like there's a lot physiologically like when you're around them does your heart race? Are you at ease? Do you feel anxious? Or do you feel calm? Like, what are you when you're around them like normally right? On a day to day basis, like some people in our lives initiate a physiological response of anxiety, like heart racing, like, little bit shorter breath like that does happen. So are they initiating that or are you like pretty at ease with this person? Are they familiar with or willing to learn about the normal physiological birth process so that they can provide the best support to you during this time? Regardless of if you think or know you want an epidural, they're still a part of your labor that is unmedicated, like leading up to the point of getting the epidural. So for either scenario I'm going to get or medicate. And this is important that the people in the space have learned alongside you about the birthing process.

15:14

You beat them up and you're like, oh my god, it's another contraction. Like looking at some computer, you know, like monitors are like freaking you out. Yeah. Right. Do they understand birth and what's going to happen and those thoughts and feelings it's not that you need them to be that doula to be like, oh, I need no this is how you can move and this is what can help Oh, like do they think familiar,

15:38

being familiar with so maybe it's reading a book like the birth partner is a great one or watching the documentary like business of being born or, you know, sharing some things that help normalize, like the normal physiological birth process so they aren't bringing undue stress? Because if you're not familiar with the birthing process, certain things might be fear inducing to other people. And if they feel scared, and they're in your space, guess what? It's going to be projected onto you in one way or another. So if they're not familiar, are they willing to do a little bit of work to participate earn that spot? Yeah, yeah, we invite for our second prenatal for our doula clients. We invite anyone who's going to be in the birth space to that prenatal so that they can kind of see and hear and learn a little bit and so we encourage that. Participation really

16:34

neat. Yeah, and then they can see the vibe too. And then you guys can get a sense of the vibe, you know, as far as like, what that energy level is going to be for sure. Only that but just like how does this feel? Because even then the client can be like, Oh, that felt really good, you know, or be like, Well, I don't know, you know,

16:53

exactly, exactly. And then they, you know, there's an opportunity for us to connect with them. And then, you know, it gives them an opportunity to maybe ask some questions that they're worried about, and that gives you get to clear that out of the air before you get into the labor space. And then it helps build the confidence of that person with us in the space too. If you've had that chance to sort of meet beforehand of course, and that's not for everybody, but you know, if it's not bad, then it's it's reading some books or watching some videos or you know, just doing what they can to get on board with whatever your preferences are. And the next thing on our things to ask is, are they willing to listen more than talk? Like is this person someone who always puts their opinion above everyone else's and speaks the loudest and speaks up and like, leads the way which is good in some situations, but in or are they more willing to be more observe and listen, than try and take charge of the situation? Because a lot of times in birth, there's not nothing to fix. So you don't need someone coming in and like doing you don't need someone to come in and then take charge all the time. There are points in labor where that's helpful, usually towards the end. But usually it's we need to hold space, observe, listen, and do like, sort of,

18:13

like be there. Yeah, but I like what you just said to that. There's kind of a lot

18:18

to fix. Yeah. So

18:21

it really is like just that listening and I'm being heard, gosh, something. Nothing makes you feel better than like actually being heard.

18:29

Yeah, well, and a lot of times I'm like, it's like, we want birthing people to have the opportunity to say this is hard. I'm having a hard time. I feel this. I feel that and no one times swoop in and fix it. It's like okay, well, we understand this is hard. You're doing great. We're here for you whatever you need. Would you like a sip of water or smack? That's a good way to help like, just validating, holding space affirming, wash and repeat until you get through it. And is that person willing to be that and during labor, right? Well, they respect your wishes, no matter what. Right? So. Do they think you should get an epidural? Do they think you shouldn't? Get an epidural? Do they think you should push on your back or push in an upright position? Do they have strong opinions about things and are they different than your preferences? And if they have strong opinions that are different than yours, then that could lead to strife in the birth space?

19:30

If you want to make sure they're not bringing in their I guess you'd call like birth baggage

19:35

you know Yeah, exactly. Their previous experiences experiences

19:38

can we have and we you know, kind of mentioned that that non judgmental just that be that presence.

19:45

Yep, they have to be willing to shed their previous experiences, share their biases. And again, you gotta be willing to talk to these people who you want in your space beforehand to share with them what you're hoping for what you want out of it so that they can get on board and we say like dark eyes like we shed our biases and we put on yours and that's what we would want for anyone in diverse space to do like we're no one's there with an agenda, ideally in an ideal world, because that ultimately, if you have an agenda or birth baggage or birth trauma, maybe a birth trauma that you haven't worked through, because, you know, especially like our generation, like our parents maybe had like less than ideal births. Maybe or they bringing that into the birth space. Do you have a sister who had a really traumatic birth experience? Is she bringing that into the birth space? She loves you? She loves you but there's she had this previous experience that could impact and there's only one way to know is to talk about it. And now it doesn't mean just because she had a traumatic birth experience that she's going to bring it in. But if you don't talk about it, and address it, then there's a chance that that could show up and can we reduce that potential right? Because you love your sister, she loves you, but you know, so can we get to some common ground and will they be able to self regulate and leave if they feel they aren't bringing the right energy? So that one's big? Yeah, because it's okay, like the expectation shouldn't be that they're going to feel perfectly the whole time. So if they start feeling some complicated feelings or some fear or some anxiety and they feel like they can't control it, can they remove themselves without it being a deal?

21:25

I love that. That means and that, you know, can we have that skill? Outside? Yeah. Can we use this these are lifestyle friendlist. I know, right? Yeah, you know, I want to add one little thing here, too, is it's kind of like that. Are they an energy vampire? So that's kind of like do and I think we've said that to do they fill you up and you feel energized and you don't necessarily need someone to come in and be that extrovert but just their presence. You know, do you connect to them? Or do you count are you just like, Ah, that was exhausting. Right?

22:05

Yeah. Yeah, I love that phrase, that term energy very well. It's a good like visual. You're like okay, what are they doing to my energy when I'm around them? And it's like

22:18

you're probably visualizing that I am like this thing floating around. You're like, ah, that's trying to like,

22:23

yes. Well, and I know I have interactions with certain people and I leave feeling like I've been completely sucked up all of my energy, and I'm drained. So that's not who you want in your birth space, ideally, to

22:35

have them. It just because these people aren't meeting this birth space requirement. Does it mean that they're not a good friend? Oh my gosh, no, because you can still like I mean, I do have my energy vampires here, but I would come into that space knowing okay, I might feel a little bit depleted. But if you're going into this birth space, that's not what we want to go in with be like we need as the maximum uplifting you know, so yeah,

23:01

and that's the thing that is it's not an indictment on them. If they if you don't feel right with them in your birth space, that's really important for them to know and for you to be relieved of is it's like this is a spent very, I mean, again, think about like having sex vulnerable exposed, like you're not That's not for everybody. Not everyone has the the right of being in that space. And so, and it doesn't mean they're bad, doesn't mean you don't love them. And that's where they're like leading with love and compassion when you decide to have these conversations. Like you can say, I love you and you support me in so many ways, but from my birth, I'm on this I don't feel like as the best fit or, or, you know, I'm really only going to have my doula and my partner there. And that's if you're struggling and there's a lot of people you can always just default to keeping it simple. And like I just want my Doula my partner there or just my partner. Like we're really it's very intimate and we're gonna keep it intimate and like your support after will be very important to me and I will absolutely need you after the baby's here. So can

24:10

and that's good, too, to be like hey, in that birth space, maybe not so much, but like, this is what I do need if you're willing. Yeah. Help and be there then let's plan the postpartum together Yes, you know, yeah, meals let's get you We did an episode on this like our you know, on tips for that how to help someone who just gave birth you know, whether you were the spouse or partner or whatever, but yeah, so there's you know, there's this

24:35

doesn't have to be like an end to a relationship necessarily, like, you know, so something else to consider too is how many people can you have in your bar space? So like, when you're thinking about this, like, you might have five people you'd have there but then the hospital only permits two visitors. So you know, you might have to narrow it down beyond even the ones that you want. So you got to having that information is helpful. So that's a question for your care provider and your birth location. And now, if you're birthing at home, there's no restriction so you might have to be more committed to setting the boundary if you feel like because it could be a free for all, and people will just given birth at home so the whole family can come and the family has kids and the everybody and it's like well, no, maybe Maybe that's you but also like so might be harder with a hospital. There are some boundaries but kind of already there. For you. So maybe that's good for you. But giving birth at home you might have to be a little bit more like okay, I'm gonna really set this I got to draw the line somewhere.

25:39

Exactly set those boundaries. Um, you know, I had a one thought that when we were doing this because so both of mine were born in the hospital. I can't remember if we did it differently. If we didn't tell anybody with my second but I know with my first moves I first and you have a good group of friends and it wasn't a lot of push of like who was who wanted to be in the delivery room. I don't think that was a big thing. But I didn't like knowing that people were sitting out in the waiting room while I was trying to give birth and then it came into the fact that like my labor was 27 hours. So then I also like, I guess I'm people pleaser. I took that on as like, here. Here we go. Here's true things. So

26:32

I took that on as like, oh well. I do need to give birth to you know, like

26:39

people are waiting on me.

26:40

People are waiting on me. Like I don't I don't think that helped. I don't think that was like a big. It was just part of it. You know, it was part of the things I think I would have felt better had nobody been out there and God loved them like I didn't and I didn't know that that was actually going to be an issue and I think I remember like I definitely remember that like, and then still being like, oh, yeah, and I remember I think I asked my husband like Are they still here? Like I

27:08

remember that? Oh, yeah, that messes with you.

27:10

Oh, yeah. And so that's like a very vivid thing that I remember. And I think that's

27:16

a really important thing to consider is who and when are you telling people you're in labor? And the thing is, is you're going to be excited and we can all relate to that and your family's excited. The reality is is labor can take a while. So are you how are you updating people? Are you updating them as soon as labor begins and then telling them like, stay chill until you hear baby's here? Because really, that's the best thing

27:40

to know. And say like, Hey, we're headed to the hospital. There's no need to come, you know, we'll keep you updated. Right, you know, looking back and I'm like, Ah, that probably would have been better, you know, for someone else to give the updates. So then I'm not I'm not Yeah, you

27:55

tell one person and then they tell the group of people right it's a it's a tree or whatever you

28:01

realize that was going to be such a mind game.

28:04

Yeah. Well, that's a really good thing to share too because I don't think people do I don't think they think that it'll affect them or I don't think they think it'll be a 27 hour labor. But if you assume that Yeah, but there's two ways right? So some people say, Okay, I'm not really telling anybody until the baby's here. Like yeah, so you're not getting any pressure during labor as a baby here yet. So maybe here yet or people showing up to your house or to the hospital and waiting and waiting and waiting hasn't made me here. So they wait and say okay, well let you know when babies here that's one way or the other way that we just said which is you can let them know you're gonna let them know when you're in labor. And then when babies here and that you don't want people showing up to the hospital because it could be a long time and you don't want to have to worry about them. And I think that's a really good two good options for navigating that and just knowing that that could be a factor. If you have people staring at you even in the labor room. Is the person you're having and willing to be there that whole time or is that going to be stressed if you're like, I feel bad, they're still here. I feel bad. They're still hear, like, is that gonna affect you? Or are you okay with that? But that's a really important thing to consider with that like kind of giving permission for people to come to the hospital and setting that boundary. So in deciding how you're going to communicate and give them clear like I'll we will update you at this point in this point. But otherwise, just pull your heels.

29:30

Exactly. Now have you had have you had to have a conversation with someone like family member friend of your client, he was birthing to say like, we don't need you in this space. Like if you have dealt with that.

29:50

I'm so thankful I have not okay. Again the past two years have been you have restricted the house even before that. Yeah, I I haven't even had many bars where like they have a lot of people there. I mean, maybe a mom or a mother in law. But thankfully, no one that has brought energy to the point of where I've had to say something which is one of my fears because I'm not a confrontational person. So again, I talk pretty heavily when we talk with our clients about that idea.

0:01

And setting that boundary. So in deciding how you're going to communicate and give them clear like I'll we will update you at this point in this point, but otherwise just cool your heels.

0:12

Exactly. Now have you had have you had to have a conversation with someone like a family member friend of your client who was birthing to say like we don't need you in this space like if you have you dealt with that

0:32

I'm so thankful I have not okay. Again the past two years have been you ever restricted but the house even before that, yeah, I haven't even had many bars where like they have a lot of people there. I mean, maybe a mom or a mother in law, but thankfully, no one that has brought energy to the point of where I've had to say something, which is one of my fears, because I'm not a confrontational person. So again, I've talked pretty heavily with we've talked with our clients about that idea and who who's going to be there and to try and mitigate that. So thankfully, no, but I do tell. We do tell our clients if they're, if it feels like anyone's in the space who isn't making the right energy, we will respectfully ask them to step out.

1:20

Yeah, we'll help them self regulate.

1:24

Or I'd put that on the partner like if it's their mother or you know that okay, it's time to ask them to leave and usually they're okay with that. But I mean, again, I haven't really had to deal with that fate. Yeah,

1:36

I didn't. Yeah, I wasn't sure. There's always the aspect of like, how to have those conversations or you know, if you are worried about Yeah, hurting those feelings of CZ, I said the ones to be in that first space. Right, right. And, but it, it's your birth space, right? For birth, and you will carry this with you. You know, I mean mine was 12 years ago, and I still vividly remember some of the things that isn't really a bad way. It's just kind of like, oh, I still remember those things from it. So you

2:12

have that vivid memory of how you felt about knowing people who are waiting and I know that you don't actually perceive that as bad, but that is that stuck with you? And that's it's real.

2:23

Yeah. So it's, you know, it is important conversations to have and so, I think those key points is and you've mentioned this already, like leading with compassion, setting those boundaries and having these conversations before birth. I think that's, you know, that instead of just waiting, and we'll see what happens. Yes.

2:45

And a lot of people kind of are like, well, we'll figure it out or I will not sure I want to have those conversations. It's definitely easier said than done. But committing to, to testing them to going through those series of questions to try and visualize who those people might be really stressing out that list, asking those questions. And, and trusting yourself right trusting yourself. Seeing yourself as the decision maker as the one in charge of your birth and your baby and remembering that you get to do this one time, this one birth this one time. You might go on to have more children, but this one birth? Yes, yes, this one time. And so remember that anyone else in that birth space doesn't will not carry this birth with them forever and ever like you will. And so when you can see it and that magnitude, I think that makes it easier to say well, gosh, it really does matter that I set these healthy boundaries that I speak up for myself and that I don't try and please everyone because when you try and protect everyone else's feelings while you're trying to give birth, it can impact the flow. But definitely, I mean, leaving everything you just said I'm just echoing I just encourage the conversation. Encourage the exploration encourage the intentional decision making. And we know it's not easy. So we're just here to hopefully plant a little seed to encourage you in the right direction.

4:05

Yeah, that thought process and that's what we do, you know, with all of our episodes as well. So if you had enjoyed listening today's episode, we would love you to share it with friends, family members, people that you think might enjoy it. We love ratings and reviews as well lets us know that we're providing the best content and helps us to keep providing this content as well. So Rachel, my I always have a blast doing these things. We have servant hearts and I believe that this is one of the ways that we're we're giving back to that birthing community and we love these conversations. And so we are so thankful that you listen to today and stay tuned for a next episode. Next week. Right Now you are three references all I need to know I've been waiting around