Ep 202: Breaking the Cycle of Mom Shaming in the Birth Space

In this episode of the Align Birth Podcast, Dr. Shannon and doula Rachael discuss the pervasive issue of mom shaming in the birth space, particularly focusing on the guilt and shame that new mothers often feel regarding their birth choices. They explore the impact of external influences, such as social media and family expectations, on a mother's perception of her birth experience. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding different types of births, the role of education in making informed decisions, and the need for a supportive environment. Ultimately, the hosts encourage mothers to embrace their individual birth experiences and to prioritize their own feelings and choices over societal pressures.

Takeaways

Mom shaming can be both internal and external.

Guilt in motherhood often stems from societal expectations.

There is no right or wrong way to give birth.

Your birth experience does not define your worth.

Social media can amplify feelings of guilt and shame.

Education is crucial for informed birth choices.

Supportive environments can help mitigate external pressures.

Understanding personal motivations is key to a positive birth experience.

It's important to curate your social media feed for positivity.

Embracing individual experiences leads to empowerment in motherhood.

Transcript

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Aligned Birth Podcast (00:01.853)

Hello listeners, you're listening to the Align Birth podcast. I am Dr. Shannon, Dula Rachel here as well. And we have a birthday topic for today. And it is a call to action. Stop the mom shaming. I guess it could be like the blanket. Like we could go, we could have probably 18,000 episodes of all the ways of stopping the mom shaming. But we're going to specifically talk about it in the...

birth space and birth world here as it pertains to natural birth versus a medicalized birth and the mom shaming that can happen there. Whether it's direct from someone pointing their finger in your face shaming you or you are pointing your finger in your face shaming you. Like it's whether it's internal or external, whatever that may be.

So there's a couple different facets and areas to talk about it, but it is a very relevant topic. So I'm glad that we are chatting about this today, Rachel.

Rachael (01:07.988)

Dr. Shannon, yes. I think this is an important topic. think it's relevant. I think a lot of new moms feel shame or guilt in one way or another. It's like the beginning of a lifetime of guilt. And I don't think birth should be one of those areas. know, honestly, I really don't think we should, we should be sitting in guilt a lot.

Anyways, especially if it's because of how someone else has made us feel if you're making the best decisions you can with what you got That's all that matters. And so when it comes to birth Whether it's an idea you have been influenced by via social media or Family members like passively Doing it or directly like you were saying. I think we're seeing it more. I see it we see it more passive

Aligned Birth Podcast (01:41.575)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (02:00.59)

then we see it like direct or it's internal like people are assuming people are shaming them but really when it comes to birth there is no right or wrong way to do it natural or medicated doesn't define your strength it doesn't define who you are and i think a lot of of

Aligned Birth Podcast (02:00.915)

Direct, yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (02:08.337)

Hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (02:20.336)

you

Rachael (02:26.446)

Pregnancy birth and parenthood we define ourselves By it we allow it to define us. I'm guilty of it I've also evolved over years of working it out and not I really was thinking I was like I don't feel a lot of shame or guilt because I don't let I work really hard to not let other people's opinions about what they think I should be doing influence me like I'm

Aligned Birth Podcast (02:34.973)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (02:54.668)

This is hello. Welcome to my 40s. Like not happening, but we see it. We've had, I, we've worked with people a lot that have to overcome either what they think they should do, what they, what they see on social media, what family members are telling them they should do, whether it be going medicated or, know, some mother-in-laws are like, you have to get the epidural. That's how I birth my babies. How on earth.

Aligned Birth Podcast (02:57.041)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (03:19.48)

Do you plan on doing this without an epidural or the mother-in-law who's had five home births and is like, this is the only way you could ever imagine giving birth. It's the best possible way you could start out your child's life is to have a uninterrupted home birth. Like, so that influences you, right? If you got either side of that or somewhere in between fill in the blank, whatever the topic is like,

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:19.951)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:29.105)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:38.407)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:42.611)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (03:48.62)

that's going to implement you and make you think that if I don't do it a certain way, then I am not good enough or right. And no, we are here to tell you if no one else is telling you, which I know there are people in your life who will tell you this, you matter and how you, how you navigate this process matters, but doing it any certain way doesn't define you.

Aligned Birth Podcast (03:55.366)

Mm-hmm. Exactly. yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:12.113)

your value and your worth are not in, you know, how you give birth. they're right. Yeah.

Rachael (04:16.182)

Yeah, the mode of, I say it, I say all the time, mode of delivery is not the end all be all. And I know that's shocking. People are always like, how could you say that? Well, I've walked alongside people who have had such really, really awful anxiety that where choosing a cesarean birth was truly the safest way for them to have their baby. like, you know, I, I,

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:22.375)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:38.227)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (04:41.87)

have seen a lot and I've learned a lot about like the mode is I mean if you talk to me 12 years ago, I probably would have felt like vaginal birth or bust like, you know, I had bias and I can be honest about that. Like I have like, oh, inductions are like the worst thing ever and epidurals like, you know, I had all kinds of really skewed opinions and so room for growth.

Aligned Birth Podcast (04:49.073)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (05:11.096)

But now I know, and I know you know this too, you've had very different verse, but like, I don't know if it was the Caesarian, you know, that was the culprit or, or how you were, how you felt the whole time. Like, I don't know, you can speak to that, but like, how do you feel? You've had two very different verse.

Aligned Birth Podcast (05:11.25)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (05:15.175)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (05:31.622)

Yeah. I feel like I've shared this before too. I, you know, in the office, I always try to ask, you know, how, how did something like, how does mom feel about that? Because I'm not going to say, I'm so sorry that happened. If it's not, does that make sense? Cause that happened to me with the caesarian when I had a mom found out.

Rachael (05:53.922)

That's wonderful. huh.

When people are like, I'm so sorry.

Aligned Birth Podcast (06:01.487)

Yeah, and I was like, okay, so I should continue feeling some shame and guilt about this. Like that I failed that. So I try to be mindful of that in the aspect of I know it, but that mom didn't know any, it's kind of like in the, my relationship with the moms in the office is different than like a friend maybe because I do ask those intimate, know, what's

Rachael (06:05.848)

Shannon.

Aligned Birth Podcast (06:28.519)

this birth, what do you want this birth to look like? I'm usually asking that. You know, like what are those goals and values and things that you want in this birth? So then I know if something went awry, well, how do we navigate that? But I usually like to check in and ask, like, how do you feel? Because mom could have supported herself and felt great, or is she feeling that? And where do we plug in and provide some of the support? So that was the main thing that I remember from

Rachael (06:44.876)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (06:49.09)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (06:56.115)

because it didn't go according to plan. like to say, well, looking back on it, don't think it was necessarily an emergency cesarean. I think it was like a cascade of interventions that led to a cesarean because I didn't know what was going on. But that's why we, hindsight's 20-20. And now I look at it wonderfully because I'm like, I love having this perspective and having this perspective in the office with moms.

Rachael (07:08.866)

Hindsight's always 20-20.

Rachael (07:18.37)

Well, I felt like, tell me if I'm wrong, you had good care. Like you felt like you were really cared for.

Aligned Birth Podcast (07:22.955)

yeah. Even if I had the cascade of interventions, every provider that I had and dealt with, my cesarean was amazing. I, it was a little bit of something that happened to me rather than it me. I didn't have a doula. I didn't do, yeah, yeah. Like I wasn't quite as like, I guess on fire as I would be now, you know, like, but I didn't.

Rachael (07:42.35)

being in the drive, like that driver seat.

Rachael (07:49.943)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (07:51.22)

didn't know what I didn't know. So, but I never had any ill feelings towards any of it. Looking back on it now, it's kind of the pre, I wasn't getting adjusted. I didn't have a doula. I should have stayed home and labored a little bit longer, know, things like that. Like it's kind of, but that's hindsight. maybe that wouldn't have changed anything. Maybe then I would have had my baby on the side of 285. I don't know, but.

Rachael (08:11.52)

Yeah and you know you know so much more now than you did then.

Aligned Birth Podcast (08:20.589)

So it wasn't, I guess it was different. The physical recovery was the hardest. I think that was the hardest part because I did push for about two and a half hours and then it went in for a cesarean. So I felt like I had kind of like birthed vaguely and being cesarean and that recovery was tough. so

Rachael (08:38.39)

Yeah, you had,

Sure, absolutely.

Aligned Birth Podcast (08:44.273)

That was really hard, but just the aspect of someone saying, I'm so sorry, without necessarily knowing how I felt about it, kind of projected their feelings. Well, I'm like, well, yeah, maybe I did kind of want that, but you know? So, I get was, mm-hmm.

Rachael (08:52.045)

Yeah.

Rachael (08:59.414)

Yeah, that makes someone feel bad about their experience. And again, that's what we don't want. And I think that example of how to like speak to people when they've heard about someone's birth story is super important of asking them how they feel about it. I mean, I think I've shared too, about like we've had clients who wanted an epidural and their birth went.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:04.548)

Right.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:09.831)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:14.045)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (09:21.396)

expeditiously and they couldn't like literally there was no time and in some people's eyes they would be like sweet like things went quickly things went smoothly that person was traumatized

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:29.063)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:33.435)

Yeah, and they were like this. Yeah, that had a different view in my mind.

Rachael (09:35.8)

So like imagine like they're traumatized and then they're sharing about their birth. Like I had an unmedicated fast birth and people are like, wait a go. That's amazing. And you're on the inside. You're like, I would have rather died. I don't know. Like you just don't know how someone feels about their birth. And we can't ever assume that one way is right. And then we should celebrate one way and not celebrate another.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:43.432)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:51.449)

It's tough.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:57.373)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (09:57.378)

Like I'm the one over here, birth is birth. Like birth is birth. Birth is an emergence. Whether it be from your belly or your vagina, you are still giving birth and they are both hard.

Aligned Birth Podcast (09:59.976)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:07.879)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Rachael (10:10.2)

hard in different ways. So like to ever say like there's a right or wrong way, not knowing someone's personal history or choices or needs or support. Like we don't know what led someone where they were before they came in and like, why, you know, we can't assume everyone has access to everything they need to make these informed, educated decisions. like, you know, so I think that's such a good point about

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:12.666)

yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:21.107)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:31.546)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:35.891)

Yeah.

Rachael (10:36.072)

never assuming one way is good or bad in both directions. Like he's like it could be a vaginal birth and someone might celebrate that and someone could be really traumatized by that. Like and with your cesarean like you were like I felt good about that and that should be what's honored and centered and highlighted not someone being like I'm so sorry.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:41.031)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:46.301)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (10:57.017)

Yeah, like it, it, I don't know, because it didn't go how I wanted or what I had expected. But anywho, I just remember that. So,

I guess too with the moms, try to check in with, yes, with that definitely as far as how they felt or even if we're coming up on second birth, I really try to unpack that first one. Well, what didn't? What'd you like? What'd you not like? And then what do we change differently from there? But let's get into the...

Rachael (11:31.266)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (11:42.547)

the birth choice spectrum as far as defining some of what we've been saying, some of the medical terms as well too. So let's start there.

Rachael (11:54.05)

Yeah, because I think it comes up when people are like, what kind of birth are you planning? And there's, you know, going what I don't always I don't know how the term resonates with everyone, but like a natural birth.

Natural I think is generally means you went unmedicated or without need for like pharmaceutical or or intervention support And assuming a vaginal delivery with that. I usually say unmedicated Because I still think you can have a medicated birth. It's vaginal. I don't know. Maybe what I'm like saying vaginal

Aligned Birth Podcast (12:26.707)

I tried to use a vaginal unmedicated, like I try to push those together because when I do have moms come in and say, yeah, you know, I had a natural birth. I'm thinking one way and they're meaning it another way. They just mean vaginal, but they did have an epidural. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's kind of, I want to piece together the interventions that we had or if there were any, like I'm just, yeah.

Rachael (12:42.796)

Vaginal, yeah.

No, the-

Rachael (12:51.98)

Yeah, so I usually say unmedicated birth, assuming vaginal or vaginal unmedicated, meaning you didn't have an induction, you didn't have pain medication, you didn't have an epidural, you didn't have a cesarean, and the baby was born vaginally.

Aligned Birth Podcast (13:09.043)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (13:12.68)

Medicated birth can include a lot of different things. Medicated birth could be you had an induction or you'd have pain medication. Those are the two main driving things when it comes to medicalized birth. And pain management can be an epidural or IV narcotics. So some people have IV narcotics but don't have an epidural. Some people have pitocin but don't have an epidural. like, you know, but that's still medicated in one way or another.

Aligned Birth Podcast (13:32.274)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (13:41.536)

Epidurals I've said that now a few times but that is you know, the most popular pain management choice for Giving birth that goes into your back and it numbs you from the waist down It doesn't impact your your your mind experience. So you're very with it. It's not like a opioid where it like affects the whole body But yet you don't have sensation from the waist down. A lot of people really like it. It can be highly effective It is widely used

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:01.832)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (14:11.434)

And then there is cesarean birth. That's where the baby's born via surgery through the abdomen. And then the other type is an induction. Sometimes elective, sometimes medically needed, sometimes somewhere in between. Just depends on your provider and your choices. Induction is where they medically start, clinically start labor. So sometimes it can be used with pharmaceuticals, sometimes it can be used with

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:18.641)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:30.728)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (14:40.942)

non-pharmaceuticals at first and then moving into pharmaceuticals, but an induction is usually medically managed. Some home birth midwives will do a version of a home birth assisted type of induction to help get labor started and still have a birth at home. So that's still an intervention. It's even at home or in the hospital.

Aligned Birth Podcast (14:45.159)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:02.523)

Yeah. And we did a whole, we did like a four part series several years ago, I think on all kinds of like defining pregnancy terms and labor and birth terms and newborn terms. So we definitely go more in depth with those two, but that's just, that's a good little overview of, okay, how are we defining things for this specific episode as it pertains to birth? Yeah.

Rachael (15:24.782)

Yeah. Yeah. And understanding that a lot of people can have a combination of these things. They can have an induction and an epidural or an induction and a cesarean or a, I don't even know how the other combinations, but you know, I think if you are planning a birth, you know, these things are important to consider and can be influenced by a variety of things. Some people want them, want, you know,

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:31.229)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:38.705)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:50.301)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (15:53.314)

They say, know I want an epidural or I know I don't want an epidural, but they don't really know why. Who knows? You know, that could be influenced by, you know, but.

Aligned Birth Podcast (15:59.496)

Mm-hmm. I see that a lot because I try to ask you know when I'm asking in the office Okay, what what what does birth look like for you or something? I don't try to say like the plan but just kind of what do you want this to look like when you want it to feel like you know, and a lot of times there's that Well, I'd rather not have an epidural and it's just me why like it's kind of just understanding Because then you can kind of go from there, you know

Rachael (16:11.99)

Yeah. Yeah.

Rachael (16:26.86)

Yeah, I think you can be your provider can influence your decisions where you're giving birth can influence them. Social media plays a huge role now in influence. People are either getting influenced. I agree. Don't influence me, says the person who was like just bought something that I had seen on social media. It's fine.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:27.675)

What's influenced that?

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:40.163)

I am really tired of being influenced or being tried to be influenced.

Aligned Birth Podcast (16:53.007)

Mm-hmm. I know. I know.

Rachael (16:53.164)

I'm influenceable. try not to be influenced, but I'm still influenced. but the, really is. And I, my feed, my feed, I get a lot of mom's stuff and like middle schooler stuff and dogs and then like pregnancy stuff. But I feel like when you're pregnant, you are really inundated. You're, think your algorithm is

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:00.987)

I want to share decision making and my influencing, okay?

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:11.842)

huh.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:18.501)

Yes.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:22.739)

I don't even want to know now. I love that we weren't influenced when we were pregnant. know.

Rachael (17:22.742)

because you're all you're doing is searching. know it was not a part of it and it is impacting people because they're either getting these like 30 second snippets of fear based. Don't get an induction. Inductions are the worst thing ever and here's why or

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:38.769)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (17:44.3)

you know, we call them kumbaya births where people are just like breathing their baby out and there's like pretty music in the back and everyone is all like aesthetically pleasing or you know, all the overwhelm of all the baby stuff and baby gear. I think they're inundated and

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:47.931)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (17:53.959)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:01.266)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (18:03.114)

It impacts people like differently based on kind of what is landing with you or what your search art. I we've even had people say, you know, their fear towards the end of birth is really increasing because all they're seeing when they go on social media are, are bad outcomes. Can you imagine maybe because you read an article or did a search on something and all of a sudden now your algorithm is horror stories about birth going sideways. So no wonder you're scared.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:17.073)

Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:23.557)

Now you're an algorithm. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:28.796)

Yeah.

Rachael (18:32.066)

Like if all that's, if that's all you're seeing, right? So, and it's like with these little incremental influences or, you know, friends stories, family stories, just generally your culture, like we're influenced on a lot of different ways, but it's just really important to be aware of that and try to balance it and, and search out all kinds of different videos or resources or long form. I'm like, let's lean back into some long form.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:32.24)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (18:52.775)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (19:01.684)

education. It's so hard to get people to do education when if they feel like they only are going to get it in 30s, you know, there it's way more satisfying than the 30 second dopamine dopamine hits. And they feel like they're learning something and I'm like, but we got to go deeper. We need to go deeper. So you know, this is not about shooting, right? So it's not as I'm like, need to go deeper. I'm gonna maybe

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:03.121)

Hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:08.711)

There's little.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:12.978)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:18.919)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:25.491)

I know.

Rachael (19:29.262)

catch myself there because I do feel like that that is a way to go. The point of this is to say explore your options. If you feel like you're in a silo make sure you're getting balanced you know from all kinds of different ways to you know gather information from your provider gather information from a friend from a family member.

Aligned Birth Podcast (19:49.716)

I was gonna say, I think it's where you're gathering the information. Like I'd rather you go through and do a childbirth education course that is more in depth, that is gonna help you combat any sort of fear and securities that you have with birth and answer some of the questions to help instead of just, yeah, the dopamine hits or even like just the fear mongering hits that you get with scrolling, like the influence from that.

Rachael (20:15.84)

Yeah and I know there's positive bits out there and if there's positive bits lean into that and no I just people need to know they can make whatever decision is best for them. So if you understand like your options here on the birth choice spectrum right and you you either want a medicalized birth or

Aligned Birth Podcast (20:20.883)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (20:32.369)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (20:39.05)

unmedicated birth or whatever you choose, it's your choice. You are the one that lives with that forever. Not, not Aunt Betty, not doctor so and so who you feel connected with and you feel like some people feel like they have a responsibility to do something because they that's my doctor. That's been my doctor for 16 years or

Even doula pressure, pressure from doulas because they think doulas are like expected to be a certain way and if they don't do it a certain way then we're going to be upset. I'm like no you need to stop caring what other people think about your choices and just make the choice that's best for you.

Aligned Birth Podcast (21:14.835)

I was about to say too, even with, would say like, hey, get adjusted. I don't care what kind of birth you have, but I would like your pelvis and your sacrum to be balanced and I would like the nervous system to be regulated as possible, whether you're going to do a cesarean or V-back or you're getting induced or yeah. So it is kind I know I was thinking of that. I do kind of want you to get adjusted. Yeah.

Rachael (21:31.31)

That's beneficial for everybody.

There are universal benefits. Yeah, just like taking a childbirth education class, regardless of what you choose, that's still highly beneficial. Being under chiropractic care, regardless of the mode of birth, even if you choose a cesarean, highly beneficial. like we love, you know, we want you to do these things are gonna, we talk about it all the time, building your birth support team, being intentional. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (21:45.01)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (21:58.2)

Yeah, it's not going to guarantee a birth outcome, but I think it's that level of the shared decision making. it's kind of, again, with this, looking at dispelling some of the fears that you have, get at the root of why do you or do you not want an epidural? Is it related to your thoughts or feelings on how you are going to feel about yourself?

after birth? Like is that the reason why you do or do not want an epidural? And then reversing that like what is an epidural? What does it look like? you, you know, answering or looking into those questions, it's almost a little bit like the birth plan episode we did. But I think when you can be solidified in the education piece and education tool,

of birth then that can help with the not the outcome but like how you feel about the outcome it's still kind of like there's still kind of like an education piece in this in that not just listening to yeah what aunt suzy has said about birth

Rachael (23:06.498)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (23:10.925)

Yeah.

Rachael (23:15.854)

Well, I think the key that I'm hearing you say there is like when you're trying to determine like how you're going to prepare for your birth, it's identifying the why behind it and if it's internal.

That's one approach. If it's because it's external, because you feel like your mother-in-law feels like you should or your mom or your aunt, like you said, like has put that pressure on you unintentionally. If you're like, well, I really want to kind of like meet everyone's expectations, right? Like that's something you have to deal with. Like it's good to identify where the, where it's coming from. Like why do you want like

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:29.928)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (23:33.448)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (23:50.932)

we had we've had a client who reached out recently and like is going is really strongly pursuing an elective and an elective cesarean and i and so

That's usually an opportunity to invite some conversation around that. Of course we support all birth choices, but like anything and same thing, if someone wanted to come and really strongly felt convicted about going all unmedicated, we still have pause there because we're like, tell me more, tell me more. Like we support it all and we're here for it all, but you kind of got to get to the root of each of those decisions. And if someone says they really

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:11.088)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:22.588)

Okay, yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:31.119)

It's like asking why at every touch point or every time you answered. I'd really like to have a birth without an epidural. Okay, why? Well, I don't want any medical intervention. Okay, why is that? Even kind of going deeper, does it go all the way down to, well, I am afraid or something, just it's the un.

Rachael (24:51.736)

Keep going.

Aligned Birth Podcast (24:58.021)

It's the unpacking and sometimes it's not just that first response. I know that's asking a lot during pregnancy though. I mean, you got a lot going on, but it really is.

Rachael (24:59.724)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (25:08.642)

But it's like a great, such an opportunity to explore and avoid like negative, possibly negative like.

outcomes. not that it's not again, it's not about choosing it right or wrong. It's about just being open to exploring sort of your choices so that you can be more rooted in them. So they're less likely to get derailed. Like I'm so rooted in how I feel about my choices with like parenting and breastfeeding and the births I have like so rooted like you couldn't have made me feel bad.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:29.021)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (25:41.408)

about it because I was so rooted. That doesn't mean I didn't feel guilt, but like it would creep in and then I was like.

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:41.5)

Hmm.

Rachael (25:48.03)

No, like that's what other people think about me as none of my business. And so it's, but again, over time, this is like time has helped me get here. But if you can identify that, like what's creeping into your creating any bit of shame or guilt and if it's external or if it's internal or, or, or social media or whatever it is, like, can you remedy that? So if it's a family member that you feel like is putting the pressure on and you're

Aligned Birth Podcast (25:55.815)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (26:08.381)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (26:14.14)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (26:17.934)

people pleaser. This is coming from a people pleaser and all you want to do is make people happy and comfortable and so either I'm like yes I'm gonna do it that way even though I know I'm not going to or whatever. If it's family you set a boundary you have hard conversations like you you communicate this is what I'm doing

If you want to know why I'm happy to share otherwise, just can you please respect my choices? I love you. I'm so thankful for our relationship. but you know, my, had a family member who felt very strongly about me having a home birth and express that to me over and over again. And I finally was like, no more communication until the baby's here. Like, you know, you can draw those lines and we've had clients with social media.

we've had a struggle in the postpartum where, we talked about this a little bit prior to recording postpartum, if like you're stuck on your phone because you're, you're a home, you're recovering, you're spending a lot of time feeding your baby. You spend a lot of time scrolling. And if you see all of these people having certain types of postpartum that aren't what you're experiencing, my goodness, the guilt and shame and disappointment that can come up from that where it's like, look at all the things they're managing. They're making sourdough and growing a garden and

breastfeeding and homeschooling and I'm failing.

Aligned Birth Podcast (27:38.259)

Or even if their... Yeah, exactly. Or even if their version of chaos still has a piece of... I don't know. I don't like any of it. It just... Even when it's like I try to be real, mm-hmm, like I just...

Rachael (27:52.268)

You just have to pay attention to how it makes you feel. You're saying on the social, trying to be, they say they're being real.

Aligned Birth Podcast (27:58.652)

There, this is, think this is what it looks like when it's tough and it's tough, but there's still like that little edge of, don't you wish yours looked like mine? There's that little edge of that, that I would just say, just stop.

Rachael (28:12.234)

Absolutely. And that's what social media does. If I see someone showing off their chaos, I'm like that took effort. I have zero bandwidth for, they are doing so much more than me. Even when they're showing off their chaos, that irritates me so much. I'm like, that's not authentic. Again, I really lean away from, but you have, if you're scrolling social and in your postpartum phase and it's creating,

Aligned Birth Podcast (28:21.914)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's the thing, authenticity. Yeah.

Rachael (28:42.334)

anxious feeling in your chest, increased heart tones, any, any feelings of, of shame or guilt, you got to turn it off. The only way to remedy that is cut it, cut it out or the input on your algorithm needs to be puppies and funny cat videos or something else like, like something that's going to boost oxytocin. Like I

Aligned Birth Podcast (28:51.879)

Mm-hmm.

Ta-da-da. Yep. Yep, yep, yep.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:03.387)

Yeah, I'm here for that.

Rachael (29:09.198)

love like dog video. Like I get a lot of like pet silly cat dog videos like all day long, but that makes me happy. It does not make me feel shame or guilt. So there is good out there, but when you're in the throws of postpartum and you have to curate it and when you're in the throws of postpartum, you're searching a lot of your searches and conversations and online activity is geared towards postpartum. So you're going to get fed that stuff and you just have to be attuned.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:11.161)

I love dog videos. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

yeah. But you gotta curate it.

Rachael (29:37.91)

To it so you can shut it out because no one deserves to make you feel like you don't deserve to feel bad About what you're doing when I think 99.9 percent of us Struggle at some point in the postpartum, right? Like what we're seeing on social media is not real Right, or yeah, but it's painted as awful and it could be really enjoyable like

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:38.001)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (29:50.695)

Mm-hmm.

Or that it's

Mm-hmm. Whatever it is,

Rachael (30:00.78)

Maybe you're feeling guilty because yours is going swimmingly and all you're seeing is people having hard times. Like you can feel guilt for that too. I just think wasting any energy on guilt or shame.

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:14.179)

there's just a lot that can happen, a lot of that guilt and shame that can happen surrounding this perinatal period. And I know, as we're talking, I'm like, that's, and then you move into the parenting of like, and it's easy to feel some, those certain ways too with parenting. So.

Rachael (30:23.72)

Mm-hmm. Why is that?

Aligned Birth Podcast (30:40.893)

I don't know boundaries protect that space. I like when you said rooted I would really want moms to be rooted and convicted in this is the decision that I have made my husband and I have made my partner I have made for this birth like that's what I want someone to confidently be able to say on that I surrounded myself with those who helped me lean into that.

Rachael (30:57.174)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (31:07.623)

that encouraged and supported it, that didn't push a certain way, that you set the boundaries and that you not so much protected that mental space or the guard, but like you didn't let it sink in or influence or let it take root as well too. I mean, it's very difficult, but I think, I don't want you to think you have to go into birth as like a war zone of like, I've got to have all, you know, all guards up and things like that.

Rachael (31:23.874)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rachael (31:36.51)

No, the goal is quite the opposite.

Aligned Birth Podcast (31:36.936)

But yeah, it's like you, but you want to be so convicted in what and rooted in what you want and taking that ownership for that. And it's, I don't care what your reason is for the epidural, as long as you get through the why to the why and the root of it, that's it. You know, so it's do it, but be not, not to not be wishy washy, but like, I don't know, because otherwise it's, it's easier to be

Rachael (31:56.012)

Yep.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:06.973)

to be made to felt shame and guilt or something. So that's what I'm trying to say.

Rachael (32:09.142)

Yes, exactly. think that's what you're trying to say is because we're trying not to tell you what to do, but also giving you like the tools to help you protect your bubble and your space because we know how easily influenced it is and how easily and delicate it is and how it's different with family and friends and providers and social and then work.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:15.556)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:20.242)

Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:32.925)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (32:33.014)

You know, like all these places you're having to exist. So we want you to be able to confidently go in and avoid shame. And I mean, all day long though, I'll tell people should not shame other people, right? The flip side of this, like you got to protect yourself. And then the other side is people shouldn't, but I don't think people always intend to shame. I think it's how we receive it because of the space we're in now.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:46.856)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:54.927)

Yes.

Aligned Birth Podcast (32:58.737)

And that's exactly what it was with the mom at my old job. She did not mean any sort of shame by, gosh, I'm so sorry. That was compassion and empathy from her. That was where she was coming up. But that's how I felt. And so she can't dictate how I feel. you know, like it's, it is what it is. So I think I was, you know, surprised by it, but I don't know. I don't know. Yeah.

Rachael (33:10.722)

but it felt like shame to you.

Rachael (33:21.026)

Yeah.

Rachael (33:27.552)

Yeah, it's a two-way street and we have to know, we just, we never know how it's going to hit when we engage with someone. And so always leading with compassion and empathy and open-mindedness. And then on the receiving end, if you're the person going through it, being rooted in what you want, figuring out how you can define your own success. No one else really defines your success.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:30.685)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:34.471)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (33:52.305)

Hmm... Mm-hmm.

Rachael (33:55.246)

When we talk about birth planning where we are typically as a doula I'm not focused on the on the mode of delivery as a success so they're getting that from us over and over again of like Success is is what we want how you want to feel what your desires are what your values are and Protecting that that is and so we really try and shape

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:03.579)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:13.041)

Is the feel, yeah.

Rachael (34:21.966)

the path so that they see the success not in the mode of delivery or needing an intervention. And so that's how we work with people so that on the other side of it, they really do feel good. And then if they don't feel good about it, that's okay. It's okay. so many times I've had conversations with people who are grieving the birth they didn't get, even though they were really open-minded and really flexible and did everything they could, they were still sad and upset about

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:26.055)

Yes. Yeah.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:34.951)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:49.992)

Mm-hmm.

Rachael (34:50.74)

what they didn't have. So always honoring that. So I'm not don't always be like a silver lining of like you know look what did go well look at the happy healthy baby you know we can still acknowledge what was what they didn't get even though they are okay and baby's okay.

Aligned Birth Podcast (34:57.8)

Mm-hmm.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:02.659)

doesn't negate yeah that yeah

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:09.789)

There's a difference though between mourning the birth that you didn't get versus a shaming or I don't know. There's a difference there I think between the two. Maybe small but there's something there. Yeah, there's a difference there.

Rachael (35:23.584)

Mm-hmm. Sure. Absolutely.

Rachael (35:32.718)

Yeah, because I think you can grieve the loss if you were, you know, with that mindset approach of being rooted. And yeah, I had wanted that intentionally and honoring it. But the shame and guilt comes I think when when we've been influenced by external factors or haven't kind of dealt with what we have. Yeah. Yeah, expectation gap.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:38.213)

Yeah, like man, I really wish. Yeah, it had gone differently.

Aligned Birth Podcast (35:51.42)

Mm-hmm. Or maybe we had the expectations. Is that it too maybe? I don't know. Yeah, I know.

Rachael (35:58.894)

I always love that analogy of like what we expect and what we expect to happen and then what actually happened and how big that gap is can define how we feel about how it went.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:07.569)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, maybe that's it, but...

I don't know, birth can transform you and change you if you allow it. And it's like, it can be good. I know in this one that we're kind of talking about like that shame and guilt aspect of maybe it not going that way, but planning and prepping and empower decision-making, shared decision-making with your provider, you know, creating that birth support team of those people, surrounding yourself with those people who are going to

Rachael (36:19.757)

Yes.

Aligned Birth Podcast (36:45.063)

help you in that endeavor with how you want to feel with birth. know, so I think that's that's part of it too. Yeah, surrounding yourself with those people.

Rachael (36:54.338)

Yeah. There's tools there and we always want you to lean into the process and hopefully take something from what we've shared here. And ultimately, you your birth, your rules, you are in the driver's seat, you know.

That's what we want to continue to support is that individual care and need not no one care plan is exactly what someone else needs. So being flexible and being rooted all at the same time.

Aligned Birth Podcast (37:26.701)

Exactly. Surrounding yourself with those good voices, that good knowledge, that good education piece is important. I know, hopefully you got a little nugget or something or something deeper questions to ask yourself in the birth process. of like, well, yeah, why do you want the type of birth that you want and unpack a little bit, be open to it because it could be really, really cool.

Rachael (37:46.144)

if you're feeling.

Aligned Birth Podcast (37:56.36)

to unpack those things and see what you want and why you want it and then being okay with it. So again, thanks for listening. Thanks for being here, Rachel. And then tune in next time for another new episode.

Rachael (38:10.67)

Thanks Shannon.